The internet doesn't have enough space to cover all the lies and contradictions of George Bush. A man who was elected on the promise of not being a president that engages in nation building. A man who then disbanded all Iraqi security services and allowed for the looting of the cradle of civilization museum artifacts over 5000 years old; so that he could design his own nation building plans from scratch.

IMO GW represents the former British Imperial banking interests via the US Federal Reserve and their minion corporations (Cheney is the point man). The Imperial appointed minions appointed GW president and protect him to this day. The entire mid-east policy of GW is imperial in nature, as is his domestic policy. For the rest of the world it is not the war on terror, but a war of politics to blunt the imperialism of GW and his corporate bankster backers. AQ was Senior Bush's creation (in his CIA director days) and Osama's family are joint business partners with the Bush family through the Carlyle group defense conglomerate.

IMO 9/11 was an inside job and ultimately GW committed treason through attacks on his own nation (via Pentagon comptroller Dov Zackheim-zionist agent) as well as the war crimes he committed abroad in his nations name, to make no mention of the 'patriot act/anthrax attacks' and 'homeland security'.

All of the above is very true,but what is really amazing is that the the American people elected Bush...twice!!
If that doesn't scare the hell out you,nothing ever will!
Now,as the U.S.economy tanks,they STILL haven't figured it out!!!
Go figure!

Stupid is as stupid does, my momma used to say.....

I disagree Andy that the American people elected GW. The first time around the manipulation of the Florida vote and a partisian supreme court appointed GW, and the next time around fixed voting machines were taken to a whole new level in Ohio among other places again appointing GW through the electronic vote counting machines owned by Bush 'ranger level campaign contributors (CEO of Diabold)'.

Congressional investigations have already declared the 2004 Ohio vote count a complete fraud, but the implications for national security were deemed to high a cost to reopen that can of worms with the GOP leadership in full support of the vote fraud that took place.

Chad, I wouldn't be surprised if your name has already been added to the infamous no-fly-list.

Just kidding, of course! Smile!

Yes the genie is out of the bottle. The Iraq war would have started anyhow later than sooner. If everyone pulled out of Iraq and Afganistan just think about what would happen to that area and the world. Think about it then reply.

Perhaps Saddam Hussein would have been assassinated, perhaps not. Perhaps there would have been a civil war, perhaps not. Perhaps Iran would have taken the opportunity to invade, perhaps not. Perhaps the Taliban would have taken over Afghanistan, perhaps not. More than likely we would still have the same situation as we had before the US invaded.

One thing would be for sure, the British, American and Canadian soldiers who have been killed in those countries would still be alive.

"One thing would be for sure, the British, American and Canadian soldiers who have been killed in those countries would still be alive."

Add to that Germans, Dutch, Italians...etc.

Close to a million Iraqis who are dead as a consequence of the (mostly) American invasion would still be alive today. 4 million Iraqis have fled their country and another 2 million live in refugees camps in their own country which has been devastated .

All the foreign occupational powers have to go back where the came from. Apologize and pay for the damages.

"If everyone pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan just think about what would happen to that area and the world. Think about it then reply."

That area will have to sort out its own problems. That is how it happened in Europe over many centuries and many wars. The end result is a large number of democracies and peaceful co-existence.

These Moslem middle eastern countries hate nothing more than to be invaded by foreigners who bomb their mosques and kill their women and children. Their culture and religion requires vengeance and retaliation.

Each killed civilian and each killed resistance fighter has a family which will never forgive and never forget. They are not satisfied with just writing off their dead as *collateral damage.*

There will never be a peaceful solution.

"Yes the genie is out of the bottle."

Bush's shock and awe invasions uncorked the bottle.

You are correct Chadermando,however,even after the 2004 vote was declared a fraud,the citizens of the U.S.sat back and said nothing!
Florida was also a farce!
I don't doubt for one second that the vote was manipulated, and I bet it is not the first time.
What is truly amazing is that nothing was done about it and GW Bush is still in office!
I refuse to believe that the people of the U.S.actually allowed the results to stand without protest?
That is incredible!

Andyfreeze, on that point we both agree. I too am very surprised the once freedom loving Americans took it laying down. I suspect this is because all their media is controlled by a half dozen men who are all zionists and or duel citizens who have a vested political interest in the current US foreign policy. If a tree falls in the forest does anyone hear it... its why the internet is so important, and why I don't get my information from so called mainstream news media, but rather propoganda from the mainstream media, which I later sort out through the free media.

"If everyone pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan just think about what would happen to that area and the world. Think about it then reply."

OK that is a dumb hypothetical comment with no value to the discussion IMO. A complete pull out at this late stage would do more harm than good and I think most recognize that. What can be done is making progress toward self determination in that part of the world, backed up with force only when self determination is threatened by the reginal and international (corporate America) bullies.

The war in Iraq was and still is purely imperial and has nothing to do with self determination. The war in Afghanistan started out purely imperial, but through NATO has begun to turn towards implementing self determination, but is still under threat from American oil interests.

A pull out of Iraq makes sense purely on the harm done western values alone with current policy, but a pull out of Afghanistan might harm our long term values we would like to share with that nation, so my best guess is to keep our troops in Afghanistan for the time being until their security infrastructure is developed enough that they can protect their own democracy.

Diplomat, that wouldn't surprise me one bit... ;-)

Time Will Tell

Chad, I am in disbelief that impeachment was never a serious option. I mean, there they have the perfect legal tool and then they don't use it.

"...our long term values we would like to share with that nation..."

What gives us the right to impose our values on people who didn't ask to be invaded and converted?

Just imagine we had been invaded by an army from a country that has different values, a different religion, a different cultural and historical background - how would we react?

We would resist.

I agree if the values are religion, and culture, or history classes and such. We can neverI agree we would resist if we were invaded, and so should any democratic country; especially if the values being fought for are religion, culture, or history classes and such. We can never and should never impose those values on others.

The values I do think we have a right to give an opportunity to emerge would be the right to influence our value of allowing room for self determination in all societies through elections and a governing system that is accountable to its citizens through the rule of law. The inherent rights of man/women, and therefore, a value that makes us our brothers keeper of those who are by design disenfranchised of those rights, and therefore reflecting negatively on our future security as a whole.

If the natives are busy arguing policy among themselves in a controlled system of self determination accounting for the viewpoints of all their neighbours, then it is far less likely they will be concerned with attacking our western nations as the source of their issues.

IMO worst case scenario is the Taliban smuggle out a few nukes from Pakistan and feel grievances over years of obvious imperialism and disenfranchisement; then through ignorance or propaganda, the Taliban join forces with others for mass murder as their best option to retaliate. The easiest target is the new unprotected Port of Prince Rupert with a container marked 'home appliances' and detonated through GPS location triggers prior to detection at the Inland Port of Prince George. It is a highly probable scenario that could emanate from that part of the world.

The potential threat is part of the reason why we should constantly ask the question of whether or not our policy overseas is ethical and on what grounds. Basically I simplify it down to the question of if our foreign policy is imperial in nature, or is it grass roots enabling and accountable. One policy increases the threat the other redirects it to a more appropriate venue.
and should never impose those values on others.

The values I do think we have a right to give an oportunity to emerge would be the right to influence our value of allowing room for self determination through elections and a governing system that is accountible to its citizens through the rule of law. The enherrent rights of man/women, and therefore a value that makes us the brothers keeper of those who are by design disinfranchised of those rights reflecting negatively on our future security as a whole.

If the natives are busy arguing policy among themselves in a controlled system of self determination accounting for the viewpoints of all their neighbours, then it is far less likely they will be concerned with attacking our western nations as the source of their issues.

IMO worst case scenario is the Taliban smuggle out a few nukes from Pakistan and feel greivences over years of obvious imperialism and disenfranchment; then through ignorance or propoganda, the Taliban join forces with others for mass murder as their best option to retaliate. The easiest target is the new unprotected Port of Prince Rupert with a container marked 'home appliances' and detonated through GPS location triggers prior to detection at the Inland Port of Prince George. Its a highly probable scenario that could eminate from that part of the world.

sorry about that I tried to edit it and ended up with one post inside of itself for a two in one....

I agree we would resist if we were invaded, and so should any democratic country; especially if the values being fought for are religion, culture, or history classes and such. We can never and should never impose those values on others.

The values I do think we have a right to give an opportunity to emerge would be the right to influence our value of allowing room for self determination in all societies through elections and a governing system that is accountable to its citizens through the rule of law. The inherent rights of man/women, and therefore, a value that makes us our brothers keeper of those who are by design disenfranchised of those rights, and therefore reflecting negatively on our future security as a whole.

If the natives are busy arguing policy among themselves in a controlled system of self determination accounting for the viewpoints of all their neighbours, then it is far less likely they will be concerned with attacking our western nations as the source of their issues.

IMO worst case scenario is the Taliban smuggle out a few nukes from Pakistan and feel grievances over years of obvious imperialism and disenfranchisement; then through ignorance or propaganda, the Taliban join forces with others for mass murder as their best option to retaliate. The easiest target is the new unprotected Port of Prince Rupert with a container marked 'home appliances' and detonated through GPS location triggers prior to detection at the Inland Port of Prince George. It is a highly probable scenario that could emanate from that part of the world.

The potential threat is part of the reason why we should constantly ask the question of whether or not our policy overseas is ethical and on what grounds. Basically I simplify it down to the question of if our foreign policy is imperial in nature, or is it grass roots enabling and accountable. One policy increases the threat the other redirects it to a more appropriate venue.

"He has got the United States into an unsolvable mess in Iraq and a worse one (though perhaps not as serious) in Afghanistan where no conqueror whether it be the Soviet Union or Alexander the Great has been able to stay in control. "

Those who don't learn from the past will suffer predictable consequences.

He probably skipped history classes as well.

We have a ring side seat while watching the end of an empire. It is quite incredible that the US is becoming economically, militarily and morally bankrupt. I heard an interview of a biographer of George W on CBC today. Apparently George is incapable of admitting he was wrong on any and all subjects. He is therefore incapable of learning from any mistakes.
On the other hand. Are we here in Canada any better? I learned today that Canada has contracted work to the mercenary companies Blackwater and Saladin. Is this what happens when we have George's "Mini Me" running things here?

Right on, mn! That's it, in a nutshell, or should I say in a *nuts' hell* ?