Taser him!

Never mind the Tazer...I just found a stapler and it actually comes in a holster!!!
No body better mess with me now!!!

How come these low life losers are not classed as repeat offenders, dumped in jail, throw the key away. Let him become someones bitch.

Exactly seamutt!
Seems our useless polticians are just not listening, in spite of all the wonderful things they tell us they are doing for the justice system!
Liars!

Best to change the last word to "elses problem". Agree that these peaple need some strick reformation of their lives. Maby Baldy Hughes can become a prison camp like Soviet Union had in Siberia.

Hopefully, the courts won't let him go.......again! Since he is an adult and violated his bail conditions he is in a reverse onus situation. He should be remanded until trial!

Locking people away does nothing to solve the problem except cause increase taxes for the general citizens. We need to go after the root causes. Those who claim increased prison terms actually help (including Harper) are part of the problem by trying to convince the ill-educated that society is better served by incarceration than addressing root causes. Corporate taxation would provide this money but our leaders are more interested in making the mighty dollar than actually helping to produce a better society. Every time I read a post calling for increased jail time and harsh corporal punishment, i can see how the weak minded are falling for the misguided words of our politicians. I am embarased for our society that mouth breathers still exist in a world were education is available.

Yeah well I for one don't mind paying a few taxes to the prison system as long as it means I'm going to have my vehicle in the driveway in the morning.

What are the root causes of our high crime rate, realist? Before you start jibbering off about society in general why don't you concentrate on the people who are committing the crimes in this particular instance? I do feel that if we lock up the people for much longer periods of time at least they're off the streets and not stealing our vehicles which we have worked hard to buy.

I don't agree with a lot of the ways the American system deals with criminals.

However the three strike rule would seem to me to be pretty reasonable.

The mayor of Williams Lake was quoted at the UBCM as saying something to the effect of criminals being arrested for the 12th crime before the 1st crime had made it's way through the courts.

I have seen statements from the VPD saying that 70% of the crime is done by 5% of the criminals..... Three strikes quickly solves that one.... come on politicians give the police the tools they need make us safe.

Hopefully his is the little @#*% that smashed my husband's truck window and stole all his work clothes and personal items,last night!(not covered by insurance) Maybe the RCMP can recover some of his items and I can return my $700 worth of purchases from today.
These theives need to have their hands
placed on the chopping block!

We can have out cake and eat it too, people. Realist is concerned about raising taxes by longer incarcerations. I, too, worry about spiraling taxes so I propose the solution used in China - 3 strikes and you get a .38 slug in the head at a high velocity. And to save taxpayer dollars on cemetery space, immediate cremation and scattering over the landfill.

Chop of his hand

There has to be jail time, crime is out of hand, and getting worse all the time.
Or as an alternative, five minutes in a locked room, thiefs verses victims.
I had kids break into my home, I called the police, no charges laid, all kids got a free ride in a cop car to the detachtment where there parents picked them up.
Next time we won't be calling the police !

Trying to get to the "root causes" are a complete waste of time and money.
We have been there,done that, with far too many criminals.
3 strikes are more than fair and that is the best we can and should do!
One of the reasons that these dirtbags keep re-offending is the fact that they KNOW damn well they will probably walk when they go to court. and even if they do get some time,it will be easy time for a short period.
What don't people understand about that?
How many times do you get to break the law before you have to pay the price for it?
How many times do you get to rip off honest taxpaying citizens before you get put away?
And to top it all off,the taxpayers get to cover the cost of a lawyer for them in many cases,just to see them walk out and do it all over again!
If Harper has the guts to put these losers away,then I have the guts to vote for him!
Too bad the B.C. Liberals didn't have the same amount of guts!
I for one am sick and tired of all this useless do-gooder attitude that goes nowhere!
Lock them up, because "root cause" is not an alternative to punishment!
And I am willing to bet that if these guys committed a crime against some of these advocators of getting to the "root causes" or their families,their attitudes would change in a big hurry!!
Lock them up and if there is a jail shortage,build more!
Only when we start to do that will we see a change in the crime rate because the only thing a criminal fears is hard time!!

"Next time we won't be calling the police!"

So what will you be doing?

"However the three strike rule would seem to me to be pretty reasonable."

Seems very reasonable to me too! When they are doing time they can't commit more crime!

Keep them out of circulation for as long as possible until they get the message!

The message is: Keep your hands off my stuff!

We have not addressed root causes. That is why we are here. Because we don't recognize this things get worse. all you who doubt this try and remember this post in five years and you'll see who knew what they were talking about. But until then be happy with whining and snivelling that you can produce because without fixing things life is getting worse and worse.

I'm pretty liberal when is comes to treatment of criminals. I don't think we should murder murderers for sure... I however run out of patience when it becomes clear, IE 3 strikes, that they are not going to be productive members of society.

I guess if the third strike was something petty like stealing a pack of gum it would be challenged that life in jail is excessive but you know what....... THEY should have thought about that the previous 2 times!

Harper's approach to much of this stuff is pretty American. The American system has resulted in the MOST INCARCERATED society in the world, while still being the most violent. They will have over 20,000 murders from HANDGUNS ALONE this year. That's insane!

Root Causes= drugs, parental guidance, and self worth!
The crime problem is only going to escaluate, until these issues are dealt with. (I hope)Last year around this same time up until Christmas, home thiefs and vehicle thefts, business thefts were on the rise or at least seemed to me!(Perhaps Christmas shopping)

Someone should sit down and have a talk with this young man and explain to him the error of his ways. If I had my way, I would give him an offer he couldn't refuse. (Godfather like)

Realist...I understand what it is that you are trying to say here in theory, but I think you are missing something.
Do you have any idea how long it would take to see results if we wasted time on trying to educate parents,get rid of the drugs from people lives,and pump up someones self-worth?
Years, and we will NEVER get rid of the drugs or the alcohol so how exactly will this plan work?
The ONLY recourse is PUNISHMENT because that is the only deterent that has any teeth to it!
Give them something that will really hurt!!!
What we are seeing now is the direct result of too many people already saying "give them another chance,it's not their fault,they had a bad life"!
Well it IS their fault, and unless they are complete mental midgets with no grey matter whatsoever,they still know right from wrong.
You can actually kill someone while driving drunk or street racing and not even go to jail anymore!
You get to stay home and play video games or surf the net!

Part of the root cause is stupidity.With all the TV Shows etc; we glamorize criminals and crime, rather than putting the message out, that Crooks are stupid, and our jails are full of stupid criminals.

We dont need three strikes and your out. What we need is sufficient sentencing to suit the crime. We cannot have people committing violent crimes, home invasions, etc; going unpunished. This may very well mean that the Government will have to ensure there is mandatory sentencing for some crimes.

Prince George is a prime example of a City that spends hundreds of millions, on Art Gallerys, Civic Centres, PAC'S Hockey Rinks, Sportplexes, etc; but we cant seem to scrap up enough money to clean up our streets, and alleys, and make a concerted effort to make criminals unwelcome.

We do a lot of bitching, bellyaching, and complaining, however at the end of the day we do nothing.

Its time the Mayor, Council., and the RCMP started to treat crime in this City for the serious problem that it is.

Realist:"We need to go after the root causes."

dgdiggler: "What are the root causes of our high crime rate, realist?

Answer by Realist:"We have not addressed root causes."

You didn't answer dgdiggler's simple straightforward question!!!

Again: "What are the root causes of our high crime rate, realist?"

What are they and what is the cure? Am I supposed to feel guilty when somebody steals my car because he doesn't have a car because of some mysterious root causes?

He can walk, take a bike or a bus!

Palopu, I think the RCMP is doing a reasonably good job catching criminal suspects and bringing them before our court system. It must be very frustrating for them to see people convicted of crimes back on the street so soon after their convictions.

With regards to our justice system, I do not think our Federal and Provincial Governments have been "getting the job done".

This is one of the reasons why in the last couple of provincial elections I have been voting for independent candidates.

Federally, I like what the Conservatives have been attempting to do to fix our present justice system (considering they are a minority government). I really would like to see the federal Conservatives get a majority government to see how they conduct the affairs of the Canadian people.

Realist, I would really like to know what you suggest we do with these problem kids in the meantime, while you determine their root cause of their behavior? Fear of consequences works for me. Maybe we just have been to lax in designing an appropriate deterrant. Chester

I think Palopu is correct except for the RCMP part.
They are doing a reasonable job, but they could do MUCH better if the damn governments,local,provincial,and federal, would stand up and say enough is enough!
Then do a complete tune-up on our court system,judges included,and bring in harsher penalties for repeat offenders.
Mandatory sentences for serious crimes are a great place to start!
Which by the way,Harper says he will do.
If he is true to his word,he will get my vote!
And any politician from any party that goes against that legislation will NEVER get a vote from me again.
But the real mystery is why the damn polticians and courts are so reluctant to put people away?
Do they know something that the rest of us don't?

Emotions people, Emotions...

Let's just admit that there's not a great answer to crime in any society. It's either too harsh or too soft. Canada's justice system and overall society is about the best anywhere. I don't think the US is a model for Canada in any way. The US is at the core of most of the world's problems.

I do agree that "root causes" are the issue. I see "root causes" as poverty, FAS/NAS, divorce, shitty parenting, single parenting, young parents, lack of education, cultural oppression, greed, mis-directed public spending, etc.

Any modern democracy will always be stuck with the struggle between "the have's and have nots". This will continue to create conflicts, poverty, crime, addictions, trauma, cultural conflicts, political bullshit, police issues, child protection issues, and a lack of focus on the most vulnerable people in our communities and neighbourhoods.

We should stop beating ourselves up about justice and enforcement. Municipal, Provincial, and Federal funding has to be divided in a million different directions and if we had more police we'd likely have fewer services elsewhere. If we had fewer services we'd have more crime and more police and the cycle just continues.

If you want to make a difference, stop writing useless scribble on 250 and start writing e-mails/letters to your MLA/MP or city representative. Go down to their office and talk to them. Actively vote and encourage others to join your cause. Don't sit on your rear and assume things will get better just 'cause you are hoping for them to get better.

Think Globally and Act Locally.

I agree with Silent Bob, start removing digits and carry on from there.

Catching criminals is not cost effective. Makes more sense to nab people for speeding, seat belt violations and illegal u-turns.

Steeliepete, "write e-mails/letters to your MLA/MP or city representative" and tell them what? What is it you think they should do? Chester

What are the root causes of our high crime rate?
Most criminals are lazy by nature. They want what you have, but are not willing to go out and earn it. Additionally, it also appears our Judiciary is incompetent in the proper handling of these matters.

I remember a local fellow who was a chronic car thief, B&E'r etc, who was always getting caught, charged, released by the courts..and then the merry go round would start again. He stole because it was a thrill to him, plus he was a lazy piece of crap who simply didn't want to go to school and/or make an honest living and pay for stuff like the rest of us do.

Then one day this fellow did a B&E in broad daylight which was reported by member of the public. Naturally this fellow took off running with the police dog on his trail.

Found this fellow hiding underneath somebody's deck. He refused to come out. The police dog went in and pulled him out by the closest appendage available - his head.

By the time this product of "bad parenting, or FAS, or poverty" came back from the hospital, he looked like king tut's mummy.

Funny thing though. After this particular episode, which was quite a while ago, there has not been any further activity from this gentleman.

I would say that real consequences do act as a deterrent.

Good doggie.

Private prisons are next. That way the capitalists can profit on this dilusional theory that increased prison time will change the crime rate. Science and experience shows this does not work. Time for people to start using their brains on these issues. Look what has happened to 1st nations. Poverty and disenfranchisement has caused their over representation in prisons, suicide, drug addiction etc. As the rich get richer and the poor get poorer we see the same results happening in the mainstream society as the ravages of unfettered capitalism is allowed to run rampant without governmental control via taxation. This is not rocket science guys/gals it is quite clear we need to shift our love of money back to our love of society. The economy is here to support society and not society here to support the economy. As long as governments do not tax corporations to ensure needed social programs are created, saved and improved we will only see this getting worse and worse, while the whiners continue to demand more lengthy and harsh prison sentences. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I remember a local fellow who was a chronic car thief, B&E'r etc, who was always getting caught, charged, released by the courts..and then the merry go round would start again. He stole because it was a thrill to him, plus he was a lazy piece of crap who simply didn't want to go to school and/or make an honest living and pay for stuff like the rest of us do.

Then one day this fellow did a B&E in broad daylight which was reported by member of the public. Naturally this fellow took off running with the police dog on his trail.

Found this fellow hiding underneath somebody's deck. He refused to come out. The police dog went in and pulled him out by the closest appendage available - his head.

By the time this product of "bad parenting, or FAS, or poverty" came back from the hospital, he looked like king tut's mummy.

Funny thing though. After this particular episode, which was quite a while ago, there has not been any further activity from this gentleman.

I would say that real consequences do act as a deterrent.

Good doggie.

steeliepete,I send emails and letters to poltiicians all the time.
And I mean all the time!!
And that includes all parties and Campbell and Harper directly, as well as MP's,MLA's etc.
It does nothing, and most times they never even bother to reply!
Any other suggestions?

First, those seeking revenge need to remember that we're dealing with a kid here, not some fully mature adult. If he was 30 years old I may side more or less with the throw him in jail and forget him crowd. But first, considering his age, we should not treat him as a throw away human being. We should approach him as a confused young man that may need nothing more in this cold world than to be told that he is not worthless by a person that has taken him under their wing. He may just need a little love and respect shown his direction. Isn't it worth a try? Remember please... he's just a kid.

As well... other points here are well taken and this reader finds them written truth. Such as the reader that puts much of the blame on our southern neighbor, a culture of intense greed, selfishness and violence. What other culture on Earth makes violence look so cool? What other culture makes crime look so cool? All the Hollywood heavy hitters; Clooney, Pitt, etc. all do movies and TV shows that make crime and violence look as though these are the things that the cool people take part in. Americans hold these people to be the most admired in their culture and the stupid people of America are confused why they have so much crime and greed. What intensely stupid people Americans are and Canadians are well on their way to becoming as ignorant and stupid as Americans are now.

Then there is the issue of money worship... and make no mistake that money has taken the place of Jesus and the other Godly figures in human history as the focus of human worship. As long as humans worship the god of money things will only get worse and worse on planet Earth as this new world religion grows over larger parts of the Earth. Capitalism is Cancer. Look at how they both operate and you cannot help but see that they are clones.

Put the two together: The worship of money coupled with crime being for the beautiful, cool people and we're stuck with a high crime rate. Change these two current attitudes and crime will fall. More prisons; mandatory jail sentences; taking of property by the feds... none of this will have any affect on crime levels. Just look south and you can see these things just don't work.

kevin1006...I get the feeling you really hate money!
So how do survive without it?
Most of us have never quite figured out how to do that?

Well Andyfreeze, you simply meet Jesus at the farmers mart, there he will make you a bunch of fishes, breads , and, don't forget to bring water as he can turn that into hooch for ya, says so in the good book.

Damn...why didn't I try that furtee!
I could have retired years earlier!
:-)

Nice sermon, kevin!

"He may just need a little love and respect shown his direction. Isn't it worth a try? Remember please... he's just a kid."

He's NOT a kid. When I was 18 I had to work to survive or starve. He can work like other 18 year old *babies* do. People who steal cars show zero respect or love, especially if they keep doing it over and over.

You go and give him YOUR car as a sign of your love!

Go ahead, make my day!

Amen, diplomat! Amen to that! I feel that kevin1006's thinking is precisely why people are stealing and keep stealing in the first place. I know from the wishy washy way they are treated by the kevin's of the world they just laugh on the other side of their faces knowing they can keep on stealing. After all it's not their fault, eh, according to the kevins. The blame lies with them and their individual actions. They are predatory and opportunistic..that's how they live and that's how they prefer to live because they keep doing it.

Thanks Kevin1006. It's nice to see that there is in fact intelligent life out there!

Realist where did yu get your rosecolored glasses? I need a pair. Kevin, wow, are you a judge?

I have been trying to find a column I read about crime in the states. It mentioned that since giving repeat offenders long prision terms crime has fallen something like 20%. These repeat offenders it is found are responsible for the majority of crimes. When taken on a percapita basis crime including murders is less then Canada.

Now I am not defending the states as they have a lot of problems but I do not see any other system I would want to live under.

I had my car stolen from the carport a few years ago. A special model GM car. Very rare. It was found abandoned and mutilated a few days later on a country road close to Hixon.

This caused me a great deal of grief because I had always pampered it from the time it was new and I had wanted to keep it for a long time.

ICBC had it *fixed* but after I got it back it never ran as well again as it did before these thieving punks drove the hell out of it.

In fact, it had been mechanically abused beyond repair!

Finally, I gave up and sold it for a few bucks to someone who thought it was still worth putting time and money into it.

Realist and kevin, have you ever had one of your vehicles stolen and trashed?

Your intelligent comments are much appreciated, but they are in my opinion completely wasted on these criminals who operate without regards to the damage they inflict on others by their stupid moronic anti-society actions.

I bet you the three times repeat offender didn't spend more time than it took to book him at the police station!

I would think if you have lived in Prince George (or anywhere else in Canada for that matter) for the last 20 years you are bucking the odds, if you haven't had your vehicle stolen, your home broken into, or both.

Well said, small comfort, though! When the criminals are locked up in jail they can't break into houses, steal cars or commit other crimes.

That is an indisputable fact! If they don't like to go to jail they can simply stay away from criminal behaviour.

I think that society is afraid of what they might do (out of vengeance) when they get out and that is why every other spineless method is tried first and over and over again.

Besides, this revolving door *justice* is a self-perpetuating industry which provides many jobs for many people.

Cheers!

My "minor" point about writing your MLA/MP or city rep is that it's likely more useful then writing on Opinion250. I did follow up and suggest other ways of becoming more active and encouraging change rather than sitting back and doing nothing with a chip on your shoulder.

How about offering your services to improve society, such as fostering, being a big brother/sister, volunteering at a social service agency, serving food at St. Vinnies or giving some of your old clothes away to those who could/would use them.

I'd also like everyone to consider the challenges associated with employment when you have a criminal record. Would you folks hire the guy who stole the cars in the story above? Probably not.

Realist is predominantly correct in my opinion. We're a very impulsive and self-centred society. We insulate ourselves from cross-association with people of other cultures, other socio-economic levels, and people who act and look disenfranchised. Housing, vehicles, utilities, and multiple other luxuries are really out of reach for people who don't have a two-income home. As far as I can see, success is either grounded in strong family or other instances where appropriate and meaningful mentoring and support was available (I understand that there are exceptions so I don't need to hear about your "kicked out when I was 16 and turned out fine stories").

My overall point is if you think that Canada needs to improve in terms of justice and crime prevention then I suggest you make the individual efforts make some changes. Any profit relies, in some way or another, on investment. Try investing in your community and it'll pay off. If you choose not to then I don't really think you're in any position to complain.

oh yeah, I almost forgot.

Andyfreeze, what motivates you to send all those letters/e-mails to MLA's/MP's if you get no result?

It's a bit of a contradiction to say that you write them all the time and then say it's useless? Must be very frustrating. Perhaps it's your approach?

Today’s parenting is done not through actual parents, but through the TV for the vast majority of those who commit crimes. Therefore they need commercials during their favourite programs that teach them life lessons. Preferably ones that show them good citizens that are respected verse idiots so they can recognize that in the real world.

For the criminal that inspired this thread it is likely to late for that kind of 'root cause' therapy, therefore he should simply be made to read this thread and write a thoughtful response to each of the posts above before bail or parole is ever considered.

Sure, I have had stuff stolen and trashed but unlike many here, I know that society is to blame for what it has produced. Ever notice that monsters are always created and never born? There is a reason for this! Just as the part of our society that turns to addictions and crime are products of our society. It does not have to be this way and as long as people continue to truly believe they are helpless to stop crime they will actually be helpless and victims of their own desire to remain victims. Not trying to educate people and change society means you are just as guilty as those you want to lock up and throw away. Who is the real guilty party? Perhaps the ones we should lock up are the corporate greed mongers and their puppets the politicians.Then maybe something truly good might result instead of the usual rich getting richer and poor getting poorer.

Oh jeese, there he (realist) goes again!

It doesn't seem even a bit realistic to blame everything on society (us) and in the meantime allow the misfits to do their criminal activities while we are trying to figure out how to improve society.

They must be given a strong message: shape up or we will isolate you temporarily from our society, meaning jail.

How is society improved by allowing preventable criminal activity?

"Not trying to educate people and change society means you are just as guilty as those you want to lock up and throw away."

Who says that society is not trying? I myself do my part and so are countless others who volunteer and contribute with time, money, and by giving good examples of being a law abiding citizen.

The guilt thing is nothing but a slogan and it is in my opinion an insult to try to put law abiding citizens in the same category as habitual law breakers and anti-social criminals.

Some facts to consider:

- long terms of incarceration or brutal punishment do nothing to deter or reduce the crime rate (we been there, done that)

- the crime rate is already falling due to the demographics (offenders tend to fall out of the system starting at age 35 or so) (Read the book Boom, Bust and Echo)

- incarceration and other forms of punishment are ineffective

What is the root cause of most criminal behaviour ?

They are people that refuse to buy into the system. They will not work, they will not contribute, they will not do anything to benefit society. Everything they do is to defeat society. But still, they expect to benefit from society.

There is only one way to deal with this type of people. Force them to become contributors. Especially in days of labor shortages, etc. these people must be made to contribute. There are less and less of us doing more and more, and we cannot carry these people any longer no matter what their excuse is. They can work and do a job while they are working through their other issues.

The simple fact is that there is no more room for vacation. There is no more "I'm a phuckup, so I can't contribute". Forget jail, forget all the "I want to get even" mentality. These people need to get to work and pay for their existence.

For me to pay $40,000 a year for the food and lodging for every two-bit screwup who doesn't want to work and prefers to sit in jail and be mothered is ridiculous. For what it costs us to put this guy through the system, he might as well have robbed a bank or an armored car.

We need to find better ways of working the system to force these people to pull their weight. Others are not going to do it anymore, we are stretched thin already.

However much of a failure somone is, they still need to be forced to contribute in some way. Screw up and go to jail is not an excuse to take the day off work anymore.

If everybody needs to eat, then everybody needs to gather food.

Wow, I'm not sure anyone person is particularly to blame. It's social and societal norms that have developed over generations. I think the notion of incarceration is pretty widely accepted and needed. It's also pretty widely accepted that Western societal makeup could improve greatly if we were more family/community and education focused. I got into trouble pretty bad when I was a teenager. My family, although very disappointed, rallied around me and encouraged me to deal with the consequences and move on, using the experience as a stepping stone. It was a huge learning experience and it likely played a huge role in my education and career choices. I hate to think what could have happened if they weren't there to back me up.

Wow, I'm not sure anyone person is particularly to blame. It's social and societal norms that have developed over generations. I think the notion of incarceration is pretty widely accepted and needed. It's also pretty widely accepted that Western societal makeup could improve greatly if we were more family/community and education focused. I got into trouble pretty bad when I was a teenager. My family, although very disappointed, rallied around me and encouraged me to deal with the consequences and move on, using the experience as a stepping stone. It was a huge learning experience and it likely played a huge role in my education and career choices. I hate to think what could have happened if they weren't there to back me up.

Yes, but was this a pattern of trouble or a one time thing? Did you do any time for it?

Nice thoughts about forcing them to work!

Just remember, in our system of civil rights and freedoms you can't FORCE anybody against their will to do anything they are not personally willing to do if there are other options like simply refusing to work!

If you can't force them to obey the laws how are you going to force them to work?

We have a Canadian Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, but unfortunately we don't have yet a Canadian Charter of Human Duties and Obligations.

Good Luck!

Years ago a businessman who was having his equipment vandelized caught the kids and when the police showed up he stated that if they were his kids he would spank them, the policeman said he would be back for the kids later. Funny thing for years after the spanking the kids keep coming back to visit the business man. One of them told him it was the first time that any one really cared about him and made him to see that some things where just not accepted. Today the parents would sue the businessman or society would charge the businessman for assult.

This is very different from the girls who broke into my house, they were overheard saying how great it was that they could steal for years, never go to jail and later have their cases sealed so when they were adults they were not repeat offenders if they ever when to court.

Yes, Realist socity is to blame, but not the way you see it. Remember if we allow the little crimes then the larger crimes will follow and that is what we are reaping today.