Florida cops taser-killed an obese, wheel chair bound woman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2mTLJi6rHo&feature=related

I noticed today they had to give Dick the Cheney an electric jolt to defribulate his heart back to a proper rhythm. Apparently the medical concept is when a heart deteriorates its chambers can work against each other. A small electric jolt under controlled circumstances can change the heart rhythm and thus fix the problem.

My question is why if science is universal does that not apply in reverse?

Why would an electric charge applied to the biological system not have the potential in some cases to fribulate a heart to an abnormal rhythm, which whether immediately, or more likely take some time as in Cheney's case, causes a stroke that in turn kills the victim of the electrical violation of their biological system maybe immediately or possibly hours or days later? Could this induced fribulation of the heart condition then be explained away as excited delirium?

The UN today called the use of tazers a form of torture because of its violation of the biological system.

Here is an excellent article that is a must read for anyone that wants to truly understand the so-called ‘War on Terror’. This view point will never see the light of day in mainstream media even though it is not only 100% the truth, but is also the ethical and logical reality we live in IMO. This is especially important to read on this day the day of so-called peace making day in Annapolis.

The emperor truly has no cloths and this author hit the nail on the head.
(The article starts about a ¼ way down the page on the right hand side. Stupid web page)

Tragedy and Travesty at Annapolis
http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2007/11/tragedy-and-travesty-at-annapolis.html

Also great micro-broadcast web site…

http://www.themicroeffect.com/

Anyone that reads that should remember that it is the land Jesus lived and died in that they are talking about where some of the worlds most heinous and conniving crimes are taking place.

Also people should realize the 'two-state' solution based on religion is apartheid policy that is supported and encouraged by the Canadian and the US governments.

IMO the only solution to end the 'War on Terror' is to end zionism and create One State where Palestine and Israel once stood; and where all citizens are equal before the law. That will never happen IMO because the banksters need a population they control to protect them from their crimes.

Truth I don't think I want to watch that. Was she arguing with the officers or wheeling away? Seems some members tend to think we don't have the right to talk.
A tad bit off topic of your post Truth but found this in my google search.

"Canadian Government Shuts Down Anonymous Political Site

The Canadian Government is enforcing a law that prohibits anonymous political speech - including online - and has threatened to charge the individual who published this page that we are now mirroring. You can find more information about the issue at http://insight.mcmaster.ca/org/efc/pages/elections/ ."
All above taken from site: http://www.derechos.org/human-rights/speech/

Posted by: pisspulper on November 26 2007 8:48 AM
Northman, you have some interesting data there. Just to enlighten everyone, the power, being voltage, is not the killer, it is the current being amperage that is the killer. A 0.06 amp (milliamp) current is generally enough to kill a person. The high voltage is used to deliver the charge through the distance of the probes and overcome the little resistance the human body offers. The M26 delivers 7 sec charge of 3.6 mA if depressed for duration, while allowing 1.8 second breaks lasting a total possible 30 seconds. Now having experienced a few electrical mishaps through work, i'll detail a a shocker for you, maybe you'll feel what a tazer victim goes through. After grounding out on a 347V fluorescent light tube at less than 1 amp, the current passed through one arm to the other, i lose all muscle control, paralyzed as my arms are unable to release from anything, complete numbness throughout the path from my arm to chest to arm. Some pain, albeit not teribble it begins to worsen. Temporarily my brain no longer recognises what is happening, i become very disoriented. The numbness now feels warm, heavier, and feels like rumbling. My chest has become tight and feels like the Hulks' chest tearing open. I am not breathing, my jaw has locked shut, teeth grinding. Panic sets in, and i manage to open circuit by lifting my elbow. Afterwards, i am exhausted, still numb and tingling, can hardly move and am extremely disoriented. My chest is heaving, my heart is racing and i begin to catch my breath. This electrocution lasted at most 2-3 seconds. The same effect caused by CED's, complete immobilization and loss of neuromuscular control. The M26 taser can penetrate its charge 2" deep from the surface tissue. Considering the heart is roughly that distance behind the sternum, this is mighty dangerous. Now in the video it "appears" MR RD is experiencing a long deployment of the charge and not a compliance charge. Nonetheless, i don't condone the use of the taser, but feel it was not neceesary in this instance and more than likely was misused. I still believe that MR RD's death was a result of poor decision making and lack of training, the M26 taser just finished him off.

If you are doubter who maintains that you have been tasered. BS, you might have experienced a momentary compliance charge, i doubt you have risked the full wrath of the M26. If anyone would like to assimulate to this phenomenon, although i recommend against it, please have an ambulance standing by. First get any fuel fossil driven combustible engine. Pull off a spark plug wire, insert finger, and now get someone to start it for you. Go ahead, i dare you.

A 0.06 amp (milliamp) current is generally enough to kill a person. So yes Chadermando i believe your theory holds true. The current required to upset the heart is so small, especially during open heart defribulation. The human bodys' neuro system operates at even smaller electical charges. Therefore one could argue that the taser is a mobile electric chair. Isn't the DEATH penalty forbidden in Canada?

Chadermando, you seem to have veered off topic a bit. On well, you might find this interesting, 2 hours long but, well done.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331

I thought about the electric chair last night pisspulper. This day and age of stress and anxiety who wouldn't be an easy target of death due to taser/in custody death a.k.a. excited delirium?

pisspulper I am no expert, far from it in electricity. In fact I have been stupid enough to shock myself in my house with 120v until the 15amp breaker kicked out. I didn't die? If 0.06 amps kills how come I am still here? Again, I am looking for an explanation as I know no better.

I am sure I have read something about any police officer who carries a tazer first had to be tazered... By and large they seem to work... What weapon would they reach for if not a tazer? A gun? My hunch is a bullet would cause more injury than a tazer...Maybe they would have beat the person into submission with a baton (or 5 of them?)

I have little sympathy, except for those who are suffering from some psychological disorder, who resist the police. I don't care if you 'did nothing', comply now and file your greivance later.

For realitysetsin: Good question. It seems to not matter whether it is high or low amperage, possibly it is the area of attack or perhaps a pre-diagnosed or existing condition also may be a factor. Some claim it was EDS, i find that to be BS and a scapegoat excuse. All of our hearts do the oompa-paa differently and that can't be a factor in the equation. Officers may be tasered, yes, i'd like to see one go through the full wrath that MR. RD experienced. Watch the video, count the seconds. Most officers at most experience several seconds, known as compliance charge. I believe the general consensus is, although i don't speak for everyone, is that the RCMP's actions were deplorable, not so much the cause and effect of the taser. 4 RCMP Vs MR RD ( madman with a stapler) remains as the highlight. Was he violent? Was he a threat?
Did he resist? BLAH, BlAH , we have our differing opinions, from what i've read from the viewers all over seems to indicate that YVR, CBSA and RCMP are all at fault. CONSENSUS= MR RD should be alive today!!!

Just an afterthought to this comment?:

"I have little sympathy, except for those who are suffering from some psychological disorder, who resist the police. I don't care if you 'did nothing', comply now and file your greivance later."

Most likely it would seem if you are tangling with the Stapler defending member, you already have a problem, be it psychological or not. In this country we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, hence one should only face execution after a trial :0

Pisspulper is on a tear now so bear with him. This one is for all of you. No offense intended. Go to you neighbours house, tell them you love them and ask to hold their hand for 5 minutes. If they don't want to comply, ask them simply WHY NOT? If you don't want to comply, ask yourself WHY NOT? It seems to be very simple to share a little good hearted love. Why is it that we can't do it? My wife says to me " I love you more than yesterday but not as much as tommorrow" Go figure, but i live with it. :) So now i'll finish burning my winter ribs on the barbie, G'nite all.

Good points pisspulper.

Realsetin, the difference is in the voltage ability to overcome the ohms resistance. A 120 volts has very little ability to overcome resistance, whereas 50,000 volts has the ability to jump through a lot of resistance. The human body can be highly resistant to electrical charge, or conversely have very little resistance to electrical charge depending on the moisture content of the skin. I know electricians with dry skin that use their fingers to check for current on 440 volt lines, and then others that have been killed from a simple 120volt house circuit. The difference was the condition of the skin moisture and thus conductivity at time of contact and that is completely unpredictable. The only thing known for sure is that as little as .06 amps is enough to kill a person if the ohms resistance is low enough through the charged area. I'm not an electrician, but I do know that ohms, volts, and amperage are all related in the outcome of current that can be delivered.

The point for me is that when you mess with the biological system via electricity you are messing with the unknown due to the infinite factors that can effect how that electric charge is delivered. Nobody not even in a controlled lab can say for certainty how each body will react to an applied charge, and therefore any charge applied to a persons body is a violation of their right to innocence until proven guilty as well as a violation of their right to personal control of a persons own biological system.

By the reasoning of realsetin he would advocate police running around with needles full of drugs that have no predictability and allowing them to stick it into people against their will for simply not complying with the orders of a police officer, even if that police officer is engaging in activities that are not legal in and of themselves.

I would much rather the needle of unknown injected into me then the electrical charge.

I would also much prefer to be shot in the leg with a gun for non-compliance then either of the unknown needle or the electric charge.

It comes down to a basic human right. I have the sole right over my personal biological system, unless that right is taken away through a court of criminal law through a proper recognized process. If I cause disruption to society then they have the right to use physical force to correct my behaviour not biological interference.

It is why the whole world recognizes we do not allow biological and chemical weapons in war when these are much more effective means of controlling an enemy on the field of battle and surely would save lives for the forces that are initiating such deployments, but, but they are unethical uses of force because they violate our right to the dignity of a persons biological system. No different then the case of tazers.

If a guy has a knife at his throat and the police say a tazer is the only option to save that persons life... let that person die, it is the cost of protecting the dignity of ALL citizens from this slippery slop of biological invasion through the rule of law.

IMO the police have every right to use physical force in their daily duties (including severe beating and shootings), but they have no right to violate your biological system. IMO no one has the right to violate your biological system for any reason that can be hypotheticaled unless a court of law decides your biological system is a threat through infection to other persons. A tazer does not comply with the right to a court of law.

If ever a cop uses a tazer on myself, then they better hope it kills me, because if I survive that cop will never be safe of life again....

Don't forget also that RD was tasered then on his stomach with who knows how much weight pressing on his neck and back. If tasers take away your muscle control then how else can you fight for air?

Chadermando;
"..By the reasoning of realsetin he would advocate police running around with needles full of drugs that have no predictability and allowing them to stick it into people against their will for simply not complying with the orders of a police officer, even if that police officer is engaging in activities that are not legal in and of themselves."

Well that's not fair at all. I don't know where the bit about the needle came from... what the heck???
My point was that if a person like the fellow at the Van airport who clearly was having psychological issues and not a real big threat to anyone but himself (he was in a secure area so pretty safe to assume he didn't have weapons etc) the police should take a different approach. On the other hand if the police are say responding to someone who is violent, or perhaps holding a hostage then the tazer could be used as an alternative more substantial force such as a gun. The tazer in this case caused death it would seem. It is not designed to do so, but it did.

The real issue it would seem to me is that the police should be using the tazer as an alternative to escalating to heavier force, whereas, it would seem in this case, the tazer was used TO escalate the level of force.

By the way, the RCMP were on CBC this evening suggesting that the tazer has saved 4,000 lives in Canada, with 22 deaths attributed to it.

The models I have looked at online pulse for 5 seconds with each trigger pull.

Good stuff Chadermando. I might add something i recall from school from times when i was awake. The human body is 96% water, which offers little resistance, although the epidermis or our flimsy shell of skin may offer some resistance, once that charge breaks that barrier, its on the loose. The heart reacts to minute electrical signals via brain, to nervous system to heart. As we all remember any electrical signal is merely the movement of electrons +-+-+- etc. The charge that works the hearts chambers and muscles is ever so small, without factoring in any defects or abnormal rhythm issues, it would seem that any charge change could facilitate major complications. Read about pacemakers, and no doubt you will learn more about defibrillation and how much energy is provided by that small battery operated device.

"According to the many sources, a shock of a half-second duration will cause intense pain and muscle contractions, startling most people greatly. Two to three seconds will often cause the subject to become dazed and drop to the ground, and over three seconds will usually completely disorient and drop an attacker for at least several seconds, and possibly for up to fifteen minutes.[citation needed] TASER International warns law enforcement agencies that “prolonged or continuous exposure(s) to the TASER device’s electrical charge” may lead to medical risks such as cumulative exhaustion and breathing impairment.[4] Because there is no automatic stop on a taser gun, many officers have used it repeatedly or for a prolonged period of time, thus potentially contributing to suspects’ injuries or death"

My preference, STAPLE me dammit!!

http://winnipegsun.com/News/Canada/2007/11/28/4690890-sun.html

"The stresses of policing continue to increase, and of course there is an inherent danger to police work," Mole said. "But more than anything else is the acceptance of the membership to come forward with issues of mental illness, for treatment or counselling whereas in the past they may not have been as open to talk about it. I think the taboo has been lifted and people don't hide the issue of stress."
I hope they keep coming forward and talk about the stress in their lives. Balanced brains = better job performance.