Response to Comment

Saturday, January 12, 2008 03:26 AM

Editor’s Note:

The following is a response to a comment made on an article. The subject of the comment, Brock McElroy, was not aware he had been mentioned until after the window of opportunity to respond had closed. He has requested, and we have granted this space for him to respond.

Elaine Macdonald

Publisher,

Opinion250.com

________________

Owl, or whatever you name is, What is your problem?

I am responding to an article that was commenting on future candidates for Mayor of Prince George. In the mix of names that were mentioned, by some of the regular posters, I was surprised to see my name pop up as a suggestion for being a candidate to run for the job as mayor. I must admit that in the past I used to talk about running for City Council as an alderman (now councillor). I also attended meetings on a regular basis for three years in a row to learn the job at hand. I really never gave running for mayorit much thought . So Eagleone thank-you for those kind comments, it is very much appreciated.

Now let’s get to the reason why I am responding, and that is a comment from “Owl”.

“Brock???? .... God Lord man!!!!!!! That would most definitely put this place inot Hicksville territory ......

Let him get his wings in Hixon or someplace first. I mean, that one really takes the cake.”

First of all, Owl I understand that some of the posters think you should run for mayor. Well by reading some of your posts it sounds like you are, or were an employee of the city, a politician or a media person. Or is it that you would like to be a politician? It also sounds like you do not have a high regard for people that live out in the country, providing of course if your Hicksville is out in the country. The reason I say this, is I talked to a person whose comment was “that is what people from the lower mainland call Prince George” which I believe because I have heard this before. I assume you live in Prince George so (according to some lower mainland people) you are already living in Hicksville. If I ran for mayor and was successful in getting the job, I would not have to worry about putting Prince George in Hicksville territory, as some past politicians seem to have beaten me to it.

You might say, boy he is getting upset over a little comment, which probably means nothing, well you might be right. I have been in the news before and had negative comments thrown at me, but at least there was a name attached at the end of their rant and I knew who I was responding to. Tom Masich had a comment on another post regarding a village Idiot coming from out of town. Well Tom we have our very own village Idiot located right here on 250. That person goes by the name of Owl, who seems to think that he or she is wiser than anybody else and maybe that is why he or she used the name owl.

Okay Owl lets look at the rest of your post. You said "God Lord Man," never heard that saying before but have heard "Good Lord Man". The next sentence you have "inot," I suppose you meant to say into. The next line you mention, I should "get my wings in Hixon or someplace first". I do not know where someplace first is. Do you mean some other place first?

What exactly do you have against the people that live in Hixon? They already have a Regional Director who I feel is doing a good job representing that area, as well as serving as the Chairman of the Regional District. Then you go on to say that Eagleone’s comment really takes the cake. No Owl, what really takes the cake is your comment about me and then not having the courage to sign your name to it. Owl, I will admit you are knowledgeable on a lot of things, and why, because you seem to have enough free time to do the research. So Owl with all your knowledge, would you like to debate me on some political views? I don’t expect to win, but let’s go for it. One thing though if you accept my challenge you can use the name Owl, but sign at the end of your post with your full real name. Also, if you are going to do any commenting about me in the future or on this post then use your full real name. That also goes for any other person who wants to say negative comments to this post or about me. I also feel that if any poster wants to bring some ones name forward in a negative way they should have the courage to sign their name to the post.

There is one last thing I want to comment on Owl, that you wrote. You say “If you want the City Manager to run the City politically, then make the City Manager mayor instead of putting a puppet in place”. Are you implying that if I was mayor that I would be a puppet to everything that is put across my desk from the management? If this is true you obviously do not know me that well. Yes I don’t think we should have a mayor that will do everything that is suggested by the city management unless the mayor feels in his or her mind it’s a workable solution. After all if it turns out to be a dud, the mayor and council are the ones that will be taking the hit at the end of the day. So Owl, if I ever did decide to run for mayor you do not have to worry about me being a puppet to the city management or for that matter to any body else just because they have money and supported me. The mayor’s office is accountable to voters and it should not matter whether they happen to be management or people that may have money. I don’t have a problem with Prince George competing against other communities for an industry or a developer’s business to locate in our area as long as the community may be able to benefit from them being here.

Brock McElroy

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Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 03:26 AM in Views by Submitted Article

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Comments

Posted by: REALIST on January 12 2008 11:58 AM

It is vitally important not to take comments posted here too personally. When dealing with the public, it remains important to keep in mind what David Letterman said: "the average human being is closer to Bevis and Butthead than we would like to admit". I am constantly amazed at some who post here who are completely without compassion and or the ability to critically think past their own stupidity. I can sympathize with the above but in reality, it is best to just write them off for not being worthy of response. Don't buy into their immature and brainless comments. Fortunately, these individuals have an opportunity here to spew their constant displays of ignorance here and thus, are not part of the actual decision making population who really do make a difference. Sure it is shocking and frightening to see what these individuals can come up with but most who have the ability to think don't listen to these impotent idiots. Don't lower yourself to even respond to them they are simply not worth the effort.

Posted by: Harbinger on January 12 2008 12:09 PM

Anonymity is cool, eh?

Posted by: owl on January 12 2008 1:11 PM

You hit the nail on the head Harbinger. the notion of anonymity is a very interesting one to me.

Pseudonym, pen name, handle, whatever you might think names on here might be, they are all totally or partially anonymous.

I find the concept of anonymity is an interesting part of our society. In this case we are talking about the political part of our society.

When it comes to final decision making in our democratic society, voting is done anonymously. Even in small groups such as Boards of Directors or City Councils, when it comes to voting for an issue, how one votes is open. However, when it comes to voting for an individual to be a chair, or in the case of the City to be on a committee of Council, voting is done anonymously.

Why? Why is it that we can openly show our support or non-support of the way of doing something and even take the time to comment on why we can or cannot do so, but when it comes to voting for an individual it is done anonymously? We do not typically speak about why we would not support someone unless it is clearly defined within party lines in a political arena.

So, I could have kept quite. But that does not help Opinion 250 if we were to all hold our opinion to ourselves. I think the name of the site sort of tells us what the site is all about.

This site has built a bit of a reputation for some outspoken comments. Whether good or bad, that opinion depends on the comments and on the individual viewing them.

Just look at the comments those holding office right now get � both positive and negative. I realize you may not be interested in running for mayor, but if you did, you will have to prepare yourself for more negative as well as more positive comments on here and elsewhere when the time comes. It comes with the territory.

One thing is for sure, sites such as these are an interesting new addition to political opinion polls and gauging of where the public sits on issues and effectiveness of organizations and even individuals.

Of course, if you should decide to run for mayor, I could always do penance by offering to be your campaign manager. :-)

On a bit of an aside, Hicksville is a city on Long Island, New York (for one example) that has been around for a few centuries and has a population not that far off from that of PG. The area it is part of is large enough for Hicksville to support an Ikea.

http://www.hicksvillechamber.com

Posted by: Moses on January 12 2008 1:24 PM

Pez Darker for mayor..!

Posted by: YamaDooPolCat on January 12 2008 8:34 PM

The editor did the correct thing by allowing a non-participant to express his displeasure at being blind-sided.

I enjoy this form of opinion tossing and idle talk, but if we are anonymous, then we have to respect the right of private individuals to their privacy. Seems one of us lost their perspective.

I do my share of making some public figures say ouch, when I think they deserve it, but they also know my full name.

Owl made a silly mistake and that's the end of it. Of course there is no Owl, so Brock can slag Owl and no harm done, which Brock did very well. I smell burning feathers, Heehee!

Posted by: owl on January 12 2008 9:02 PM

People's perspectives differ. I smell a burning ego .... ;-)

I am unsure of why people can take a bit of a poke at the mayor anonymously but cannot take a poke at someone who was suggested should be the mayor.

;-)

When I look for a mayor, I look for someone who has shown his ability in other similar situations, whether Council, business, head of a major organization etc.

Posted by: Andyfreeze on January 12 2008 10:01 PM

Chill Brock,chill...if you start taking everything on here too seriously,you'll end up with an ulcer!
It's all in fun for the most part,and sometimes,every once in a while,something good come actually comes out of all of it!
Like...Heidi's ice busting thingy maybe!

Posted by: pisspulper on January 13 2008 4:28 AM

Good response Owl. Brock clearly demonstrates a childish reaction to a few minor jabs to the ribs. Is this reaction indicative of his conflict resolution skills? Perhaps someone who has to resort to contacting the editor to initiate an even hastier retort than the original might not be a suitable candidate for mayor, not even for Hicksville. Anonymity probably wiser in this instance than sending it POSTAL with a return address.

Editor, it must have been a touching moment to succumb to a grown man weeping on you shoulder. Did he at least pay for the dry cleaning? I wonder why you crumbled to this retort request but ignored my request to do a story on the PG Elves?

PissPulper The 3rd

Posted by: YamaDooPolCat on January 13 2008 7:29 AM

Oooohh, someone else is being pissy too!

Posted by: Eagleone on January 13 2008 8:39 AM

I respect the view that if you are not in the news, a declared candidate, elected official, or public servant, than it is out of line for people with anonymity to demean the character of that individual in a public forum. It lacks class and a respect for someone�s privacy, especially when it has no basis in fact and is delivered in a negative spirit.

I don't think I have ever done what Owl did, but as a blogger if I do then I also expect to be taken to task for it....

That said in politics I think a private opinion is just as important as a private vote as long as it pertains to legitimate issues of political relevance.

Posted by: owl on January 13 2008 10:14 AM

As you likely know, eagleone, in the non-blog world the normal protocol is that one asks an individual whether they would like to be nominated for a position. That allows them to have a say of whether they wish to enter the public forum. There are several reasons for that. One of them might be that the person does not want his/her name introduced into that sort of a forum. While they likely appreciate that you feel that way about them, they may feel some others do not and they do not wish to be injected into a contest and all that means.

This group is not like such a formal setting. It is more akin to a group sitting around a table and informally chatting about all sorts of topics. In that type of an environment people often do not hold back their opinions if a name is introduced in this fashion. The discussion is typically more open.

So, which rules do we follow? When names are offered in this fashion, I am not sure what the intent is.

1. Does the individual who introduced the name not expect an opinion at all? Is it merely a name brought forward and no discussion?

2. Only so called "positive" comments allowed.

3. Open and free discussion allowed?

Posted by: Eagleone on January 13 2008 12:07 PM

If you're asking Brock, then I would think you would first have to sign your real name for him to respond. I think Brock's view read as requiring a person to sign off with your real name before making any comment that is negative about him personally after his 3rd party injection into a public debate. That seems like a fair rule to me if the negative comments are about him personally against his privacy.

IMO a person offering a name of someone who may be interested in running for office (based on past experience), may not necessarily expect an opinion about the names offered, but if one is offered, and it is positive, then I think free discussion is warranted.

But if it turns negative, then IMO you might want to sign you name. You'll notice I was right on the borderline with my comments about Bill Lynch as a potential mayoral candidate. I don't think I was negative (he may think I am though?), but I tried to coach it as a positive view of his positive attributes, but showing how his positives could harm him if not recognized from the outset. That was probably splitting hairs and probably wouldn't measure up to Brock's standard of an acceptable negative, but... if I had anything negative to say about the character of any of the people mentioned� then I would not have said anything at all.

I guess it�s a judgement call on what kind of class you want to have for yourself, or your pseudonym, as seen on-line.

That is my take anyways....

;-)

Posted by: Eagleone on January 13 2008 12:08 PM

Actually I guess a rule for putting a persons name forward might be to ask that person first... hmmm....

Posted by: owl on January 13 2008 1:27 PM

Eagleone - please note, this means eagleone and not Brock .... ;-)

"If you're asking Brock, then I would think you would first have to sign your real name for him to respond." I would? He responded already to �owl� and the world.

I was actually not asking Brock. I thought the first line of my post made it clear who I responded to. The questions I am posing can also be viewed as rhetorical questions or someone can take them and answer one or more, if they wish. They can also mull them around in their own head and reach their own conclusion without letting anyone know.

;-)

I could have signed on here with the name �James Carlisle�. When authors use �pen names� they typically use names that sound like they are real people rather than names such as �eagleone�.

If those of the many on here who use names such as �eagleone� would all take on such pen names, the question of anonymity would never have arisen, I am sure, and we could have dealt with the real issue � is the person put forth as a candidate for mayor one who could win and, if he won, would the city�s situation be viewed to be more positive than what we have right now.

Posted by: YamaDooPolCat on January 13 2008 9:47 PM

Owl is splitting feathers.

If you want to say something good about someone, then the courts don't care.

On the other hand character assassination of private persons is an offence. Nuff said.

Posted by: pisspulper on January 14 2008 6:09 AM

qwaszxter
The PG Elves are volunteers and retirees making handmade X-Mas gifts for the needy. The story made headlines on another media source outside of PG and 250. Anyhow, I felt the Elves merit some local recognition and thus e-mailed the editor to produce an article. Seems the Elves were forgotten or my request was forwarded to Santa.

Posted by: owl on January 14 2008 8:09 AM

"On the other hand character assassination of private persons is an offence."

I am not sure why suggesting someone who has no political office experience to begin by gaining some experience before going to the loftier goal of taking on the position of Mayor is character assassination.

It is an opinion I happen to have about any position in the world of work. I suspect it is shared by many others in this community. It is a �show us what you can do first� approach, rather than a �tell us what you can do� approach. Some of us need to see the real thing first and are not wowed by promises without proven past experience to back that up. That is the standard when industry hires someone to enter into a position. I happen to believe that same standard should be there for politicians.

I suggested Hixon as an example. I could also have suggested City Council. As was pointed out, Art Kaehn represents that electoral area on the Regional District and is the Board�s Chair. To me, that would be credible and relevant experience as I suggested.

Character assassination? No! The realities of my expectation for a person in the position of Mayor of PG? Yes!

Posted by: diplomat on January 14 2008 2:24 PM

Owl:"The realities of my expectation for a person in the position of ..."

Time to get involved yourself, owl! Don't expect much from others.

"The punishment which the wise suffer,who refuse to take part in the government, is to live under the government of worse men."

Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Posted by: opinionated on January 14 2008 4:45 PM

Owl for mayor? That that would ruffle a few feathers.

Posted by: owl on January 14 2008 5:52 PM

Obviously just another opinionated view.

;-)

for Diplomat ... to follow Emerson quote.

Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary:
"POLITICS, n. A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.

Then there is this from Will Rogers:
�Even if you are on the right track, you�ll get run over if you just sit there.�