Warm Water Pipeline Could Begin Testing Tomorrow

Sunday, January 27, 2008 07:37 AM

Crews work to complete the warm water pipeline (photo courtesy of the City)

Prince George, B.C. - Another measure aimed at mitigating the effects of the Nechako River icejam will come on-line tomorrow...

It’s been dubbed the "warm water treatement" option and involves piping hot water from Canfor’s Intercon Pulpmill, three-kilometres down to a pump station at the river, where it will be cooled to 15-degrees Celsius before entering the Nechako.

With the river temperature hovering around one-degree, the warm water is expected to soften and break up the frazil ice, creating open channels that will complement the work being done by the Amphibex water excavator.

The $400-thousand dollar pipeline is in place and "substantially" complete according to City Liaison Officer, Kevin Brown.

The picture, at left, shows a helicopter laying an outflow pipe into the Nechako from the Canfor pumphouse on shore (courtesy of City of Prince George).

Brown says crews spent yesterday and will spend the rest of today installing some remaining valves and testing parts of the pipeline with a view to being ready to test the warm water tomorrow.

Meantime, Brown says it’s remarkable to see the difference in water levels at the foot of the jam, since a large channel broke open late Friday afternoon. (click here for previous story)

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Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 07:37 AM in News by 250 News

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Comments

Posted by: realitysetsin on January 27 2008 10:30 AM

Wow. They sure got that in place quick once they decided to do it and had the materials. I thought the 'experts' said it would take 6 weeks??

Posted by: owl on January 27 2008 12:29 PM

I think they were talking about a burried or partially burried line. I assume this one is not burried.

Posted by: NMG on January 27 2008 1:50 PM

"Warm water treatment" and "hot water" are a complete misnomer. Why don't they just call it what it really is, that being "well below room temperature water treatment".

Posted by: Palopu on January 27 2008 2:13 PM

We are now moving into the area of Newtons Third Law of Motion.

**For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction**

We will have to see what is the consequences of moving ice faster into a jammed area. Most of the clear channel that the amphy used when it first entered the Fraser is now frozen. Where is the ice going? Will the warm water on the ice freeze faster, or will it melt the ice?

The Saga continues.

Posted by: thereasonableman on January 27 2008 2:43 PM

Cool ! I'm kind of anvious to see how well it works. Curious to see the results.

Posted by: thereasonableman on January 27 2008 2:44 PM

Cool ! I'm kind of anxious to see how well it works. Curious to see the results.

Posted by: Palopu on January 27 2008 2:54 PM

The fact that hot water freezes faster than cold has been known for centuries. The earliest reference to this phenomenon dates back to Aristotle in 300 BC. This phenomenon was treated as folklore until it was re introduced to the scientiic community in 1969 by Mpemba a Tanzanian high school student. Since then numerous experiments have confirmed that warm (HOT) water freezes faster than cold. This has come to be known as the** Mpemba Effect**

It will be interesting to see what effect the hot (warm) water will have on the ice.

Seems they stopped putting water into the river from the Cameron St. Bridge, looks like it just created more ice.

Posted by: Resident on January 27 2008 3:12 PM

Is the water really going to be 15 celcius, or is this just another city hall spin and it is actually well water just slightly above freezing. It would be interesting for the Citizen or Opinion 250 to check this out.

Posted by: Eagleone on January 27 2008 3:31 PM

If it was a problem they could oxygenate the water prior to putting it in the river with an air compressor. I've heard that water loses its oxygen when warmed, which is why it freezes faster after being warmed. Maybe blowing warm bubbles into the river would work?

On a night like tonight you could fill two bowls with water. One boiling hot, and the other near freezing cold. The hot one when thrown will freeze before it hits the ground, the cold one maybe not.

Posted by: NMG on January 27 2008 4:42 PM

It may be a blazing 15 degrees when it enters the pipeline, however, I'd venture a guess that with weather like we are having now (and likely the normal weather for Jan/Feb) it will be damn near frozen when it hits the river.

Posted by: Fuzzy on January 27 2008 6:27 PM

http://www.sciam.com/physics/article/id/is-it-true-that-hot-water

Posted by: heidi1555 on January 27 2008 7:03 PM

Every online ice manual that I came across says that more ice is formed under the surface ice or jam in a downwards pattern when heat escapes the water and enters the air above. Unless i'm not understanding it properly but it seems to me the water entering the river will melt the area around the pipes but wouldn't it then create more ice build up somewhere downstream with the slight heat loss? Seems the heat shouldn't come in the form of water into the river rather a heat source above the ice (Sun). I hope this doesn't create more work/danger for the Amphibex crew through these extremely low temperatures.

Posted by: heidi1555 on January 27 2008 7:07 PM

"Unless i'm not understanding it properly but it seems to me the water entering the river will melt the area around the pipes but wouldn't it then create more ice build up somewhere downstream.... (frazil ice).... with the slight heat loss?"

Posted by: Palopu on January 27 2008 7:10 PM

Owl. The pipeline is for the most part above ground.

Posted by: realitysetsin on January 27 2008 10:51 PM

I still say dynamite, done right would work.

Even if it didn't, it would be fun to watch.

Posted by: owl on January 28 2008 12:20 AM

All other things being equal, the warmer the water the longer it takes to freeze when both are immersed in the same temperature.

However, water flow, water surface area in touch with the colder environment, variation of contaminnats in water, water pressure, etc. all are added factors.

So yes, given that NOT ALL conditions are the same when comparing one to the other, warmer water could very well freeze faster than colder water. But, we do not have that case here. So, when wamer water is added to the cold water it will take longer for the cold water to freeze than if the warm water were not added.

Water in a pail will freeze much slower than the same amount of water in a garden hose if both are the same temperature to start with and both are outside.

Posted by: Andyfreeze on January 28 2008 5:41 PM

I agree with dynamite!
I think it would work but unfortunately,it should have already been tried by now!