Pothole Money Pits

Wednesday, February 13, 2008 05:34 PM

Prince George, B.C. - Temporary fixes of pot holes are being done now, but the Streets Division Manager Bill Gaal says the problem with making the fix "stick" is the material "Right now we have to use a cold mix and it doesn't hold as well. In the summer we will go over them again with the hot asphalt mix."

Councillor Don Zurowski asked what was being planned for local roads, as it is clear to him there has been lots of work on collector and arterials "I can see that work clearly and I want to celebrate that work, but the 35- 40 year old local roads are in tough shape. It won't take long before Mother Nature reclaims them and we are no longer a community with paved roads."

Development Services Manager Bob Radloff agrees "We may have to revisit how much we are investing in our roads, and we will bring that back to Council at a later date."

The pounding on the roads is partly blamed on the traffic "We have a lot of industrial heavy trucks, and we love those trucks, we've got to have them. But there is a stress on the pavement "says Mayor Colin Kinsley.

Gaal says with the ground being so wet this winter, he anticipates there will be more pot holes in the spring. The costs for repairing those extra potholes has been including in the 2008 budget.

Last year, City crews repaired 19,900 pot holes.

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Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 05:34 PM in News by 250 News

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Comments

Posted by: Jim13135 on February 13 2008 7:17 PM

"""Gaal says with the ground being so wet this winter, he anticipates there will be more pot holes in the spring. The costs for repairing those extra potholes has been including in the 2008 budget."""

Well it must offically be SPRING in PG because I hit a horrendous pot hole at 5th and Carney on the way home from work today....

Posted by: Chester on February 13 2008 7:30 PM

The freeze thaw conditions we face are to blame. The water goes into the cracks and freezes and expands.

I wonder if there are any other community's in Canada or North America who have done a better job managing this phenomona? A different kind of ashphalt, or road surface maybe? I don't know. With today's access to technology, there should be other road surfaces that stand up better to our northern climates. Any ideas? Chester

Posted by: uyterlindekel on February 13 2008 8:00 PM

I know that patching is a waste of money for sure. 5th Ave will kill my shocks long before the road is actually fixed. I wonder if I can send the bill to city hall.....

Posted by: lostfaith on February 13 2008 9:25 PM

"The pounding on the roads is partly blamed on the traffic "We have a lot of industrial heavy trucks, and we love those trucks, we've got to have them. But there is a stress on the pavement "says Mayor Colin Kinsley."

Well mister Mayor, yes we love those heavy trucks and we've got to have them, However
why is it you allow them to park in residential areas that have never had a bylaw that permits it????????? Numerous complaints to bylaw services have fallen on deaf ears.
Some of these trucks park here all night, just so the drivers don't have to use thier own vehicles to get to and from work.
Why would city council ammend the parking bylaw to allow heavy trucks to park in any residential areas for 3 hours at a time 24/7? I bet you live in an area where this problem would not impact your life. I sent you an email regarding this problem and you dont have the decency to reply.

Posted by: Harbinger on February 13 2008 9:48 PM

Yeah, Mr. Mayor. And while yer at it, how is that lawsuit with the city and the Black Orchid escort agency going? Some inquiring minds need to know. Namely mine.

Posted by: lunarbase on February 13 2008 10:43 PM

Basically it comes down to maintenance. IF the city maintained the roads and prevented the various cracks that form during the year, there would be less issues. Instead they just wait till a big hole is present and complain about how they can't patch it. Why not do some preventive maintenance to the roads, even the newly paved areas ! Why let cracks get into big ruts !

Harbinger the update on that legal case is that Black Orchid won and the city had to pay her somewhere around $30,000. ( I know she won, but the dollar amount of the settlement might be wrong )

Posted by: owl on February 13 2008 10:50 PM

"I can see that work clearly and I want to celebrate that work"

I can just see it now .... the goode councillor leading the pipe and drum marching band down the roads with a fanfare of horns in celebration .....

;-)

Posted by: owl on February 13 2008 10:57 PM

"We may have to revisit how much we are investing in our roads, and we will bring that back to Council at a later date."

and is this revisiting an annual event? What is wrong with that picture? We know that every single crack in the road will soak in water which will deteriorate the pavement, with that deterioration happening more quickly with increased traffic, heavier traffic, and more frequent freeze and thaw cycles. Throw in shoddy workmanship tht has been let go because of poor quality control, and we have a perpetual problem that has several solutions but appear to never be resolved because no one is facing the hard facts that the resurfacing efforts must be more aggressive and the money required to do that work must be provided more quickly.

Procrastination will likely increase the eventual annualized unit cost.

Posted by: owl on February 13 2008 11:06 PM

"We have a lot of industrial heavy trucks, and we love those trucks, we've got to have them. But there is a stress on the pavement"

Pavement is designed to carry certain loads. If the actual use of roads cahnges over time, the pavement design has to change as well. That is a fact of the engineering process. It is no different than forestry roads some of which are also being used far beyond their original capacity and are instrumental in the number of accidents on them.

So, figure out which roads take such additional unforseen loads and repave them to a higher quality standard.

BTW, has anyone compared the number and size of potholes per 100 metres of roadway in the bypass to the density of potholes in associated collectors and arterials which carry such trucking traffic?

It seems to me that the pothole frequency on the provincial highways within the city limits is considerably less than on other arterial and collector roads within the city limits.

Posted by: owl on February 13 2008 11:15 PM

"Last year, City crews repaired 19,900 pot holes."

How many were repaired more than once? How many were not repaired? What was the average length of time potholes were left unrepaired?

BTW, I just love that section of road which was dug up and then never properly repaired on 5th heading west just past the regional RCMP building. Surely they could have found time to divert traffic for a couple of days, protected that small area from the elements and porperly repaired that section rather than leaving it unrepaired for 3 or 4 months.

Posted by: owl on February 13 2008 11:38 PM

"With today's access to technology, there should be other road surfaces that stand up better to our northern climates. Any ideas?"

Believe it or not, when properly done, concrete does a wonderful job.

In either case a strong, non-wicking usbsurface helps. There are chemical additives available to manipulate the subsurface so that less moisture is retained.

Ask the airport manager how many potholes the runway gets every year .......

;-)

http://www.globalzyme.com/advantage.htm

Posted by: thereasonableman on February 14 2008 6:42 AM

Remember about "Free-for-all-Friday", you topic changers.

The whole province is outgrowing it's infrastructure and having a hard time keeping up. Get out of the bubble and look around. Go to Vancouver and look around. We are actually in much better shape compared to that.

We are in a state where we have ridden too long on previous investments and not kept up.

Posted by: lostfaith on February 14 2008 9:09 AM

Thereasonableman
We are in much better shape than Vancouver? LOL, OK.
Last time I was down there, (and I am down there quit often) I am amazed at how smooooooooooooooth there roads are. Any potholes that may happen there are quickly repaired and done so very professionaly with lasting results.

Posted by: singlemom on February 14 2008 9:37 AM

I have to ask why this seems to be such a surprise?

How on earth are we better off than Vancouver? Vancouver is in better shape than we are even thought they have way more traffic than we do and they do not the drastic weather fluctuations we have in the north. This does not excuse the shoddy roads we have here - the weather is not a mystery - not a surprise... year after year after year we end up with the same problem - some years are worse than others. It is a chronic problem, yet the city seems to be wide eyed surprised every time spring rolls around, as if they have never encountered this before.

The patching is a joke - all along the roads you can see the patch jobs coming apart, just making the initial problem worse. How much time and money is being spent on patching over and over and over again, just to have it all heave and need to be repatched the following year?

Pardon me, corret me if I'm mistaken, but I vaguely recall more taxes collected from us poor saps to be spent in this area?

Posted by: lostfaith on February 14 2008 10:07 AM

Your correct singlemom...4% tax increase last year for road repairs.
Patching potholes is not rocket science.
Doing the job properly would be my suggestion to those that do the work. Then they would last.
Some pothole repairs end up being speed bumps.

Posted by: diplomat on February 14 2008 11:07 AM

There is fully automated high-tech pothole patching equipment available and in use in many cities in Canada and the US, including Alaska where it gets even colder than here.

The City has been made fully aware of it, but for some mysterious reason will not advance into the modern age. It prefers the old manual patching method which unfortunately never lasts more than at best a few days!

Do a Google search using the words *automated pothole patching equipment.*

Then you may ask: Why is this City still so backwards?

Remember, this is the same administration that was unaware of the existence of the Amphibex icebreaker.

Posted by: Harbinger on February 14 2008 12:04 PM

Does anyone at city hall have Google on their computers or are they all either city business and Spider Solitaire only?

Posted by: Howrd_B_Stern on February 14 2008 4:14 PM

I was out walking my dog this morning and came across a pothole that was huge. I could put my foot in it easily and I wear size 12 Sorel boots.

I'm pretty sure if I rooted around in it, I would have come across Jimmy Hoffa.

Call the feds.

Posted by: Harbinger on February 14 2008 10:45 PM

$30,000 or thereabouts eh? How much of this is Mr. Poop disturber gonna volunteer to pay fer this conundrum. Is that dough taxable? After all it is income?