Engineer Says Warm Water Treatment In Nechako Like Peeing In A Bathtub

Friday, February 22, 2008 03:45 AM

The powers that be at City hall should now quietly take out the, “Warm Water Pipe” and call it a day.

It isn’t working, unless you can come up with a very good line on how the Nechako has frozen over about 500 meters downstream of where the warm water enters the river, while upstream the river remains open to the flats above Wilson Park. Unless of course you can argue (and I’m sure there are some who can) that the water from the warm water pipe actually goes up stream, then sort of loses all of its energy before coming back down stream.

The pitch we are getting is that it is okay to have , as it is referred to, “a thin layer “of ice covering the river downstream of the warm water outflow. Now if that were the case then how in God’s world was it going to thaw out an ice jam of several meters thick when it can’t keep a thin layer of ice from forming?

The idea is a bust, save the people of the city and the province $2,500 to $3,000 a day to operate the system, and chalk up the $400,000 cost to construct the facility as a nice idea but no cigar. Take the three grand and use that money to fix some pot holes in this city.

Finally don’t keep trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. Swallow some pride, admit it was an experiment that didn’t work and get on with life instead of trying to convince the people of the province that the warm water treatment in the Nechako would cure all the ills of the ice jam. Instead of saying the warm water is now ,”loosening” the ice as opposed to the previous line that it will open a channel , come clean and call it a day. As one engineer from one of the pulp mills remarked in an E-mail the other day,”I said it wouldn’t work from the start, it’s like peeing in a bathtub and hoping the water will get hot.

If the program is carried on until next year, all it does is give a false sense of hope. If we had a repeat of this year's ice jam and frazzle ice conditions , if the warm water can’t keep the river open when it is constantly above zero and many citizens are walking around without jackets on , what can we expect when the temperature hits -30 again?

For a change ,accept the advice of some pretty knowledgeable citizens, dredge the river at the confluence of the Fraser and Nechako next summer instead of trying to come up with an engineering feat.

I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.
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Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 03:45 AM in Views by Ben Meisner

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Comments

Posted by: michael on February 22 2008 7:45 AM

On the mark again Ben! Should be in line for an expense paid trip to China until after November.

Posted by: michael on February 22 2008 7:45 AM

On the mark again Ben! Should be in line for an expense paid trip to China until after November.

Posted by: giterdun on February 22 2008 7:50 AM

TO THE CITY "EXPERTS".. I would like to say -- From about nintey percent of those people on this site who posted on the warm water dog and pony show.....WE TOLD YOU SO!!!

Posted by: heidi1555 on February 22 2008 8:50 AM

I was wondering why the story just sort of faded away unlike the ice.

Posted by: Palopu on February 22 2008 9:04 AM

The City tries to make every failed project a success. When they closed the IPG office in Vancouver after spending $140,000.00 for two years rent, and attracted ***nobody*** they gave an accolade to those who closed the office (same people who opened it) saying they made the ***right*** decision.

All these failed projects reflect a lack of maturity, common sense, understanding of basic principles, and indicates to me that we have a lot of high paid people at City Hall that are basically inexperienced, and out of their league.

Posted by: Andyfreeze on February 22 2008 9:10 AM

Can you say.."ELECTION"?

Posted by: Bridge on February 22 2008 9:19 AM

Oh well its all provincial government money so get all we can. The cup is half full.

Cheers

Posted by: szd on February 22 2008 9:46 AM

Why not use that water to heat the downtown as the tempature is lowered to 15c to put in the river. It would save 8 million in costs and not introduce any more pollution in the downtown core. To easy for cityhall to figure out????

Posted by: giterdun on February 22 2008 9:47 AM

Oh well its all provincial government money so...... Yeh it is but I would just as soon not see it floating down the Fraser river,never to be seen again.

Posted by: giterdun on February 22 2008 10:02 AM

One bad decision after another. This city council has lost all common sense. Their first mistake is listening to city administration. Their second mistake is not listening to the electorate. Their third mistake will be running for re-election. I predict a total wipeout. We will have a new mayor and council in the upcomming election. If these people performed like this in private industry, they wouldn't have to bring their lunch. They wouldn't be there long enough to eat it.

Posted by: raresense on February 22 2008 10:27 AM

One thing about the warm water boondoogle. When the ice jam lets go this spring, The Cameron Street bridge may go with it, thus reducing the demolition budget!

Posted by: giterdun on February 22 2008 11:19 AM

As Ben says.."Accept the advise of some pretty knowledgeable citizens, dredge the river...."No, instead, the city is going to launch into a 7 month study on this problem. Meantime the river won't get dredged and we will have the same problem next year. We have to somehow get the message through their thick skulls that the problem is shallow water at the confluence of the rivers, PERIOD! Enough consultation, enough study. It's time for action. The mayor and council should listen to us average dumb folk for a change. The so-called experts have failed misserably. It's time for a complete HOUSECLEAN at city hall.

Posted by: giterdun on February 22 2008 11:19 AM

Posted by: giterdun on February 22 2008 11:24 AM

Sorry for the double click. Am I upset? You dam right I am. Too much stupidity at city hall.

Posted by: Harbinger on February 22 2008 12:00 PM

Just watch all these ninnies at city hall get re-elected again this coming November. Name recognition and fear of some future unknown potential future ninnies ought to scare the small percentage who vote. At least make all the candidates know how to do simple percentages as as a prerequisite to enter those hallowed doors. And have someone check for any brains left at the door of city hall while city council is in session.

Posted by: Death to Socialism on February 22 2008 1:22 PM

Good thing Dan Rogers isn't the mayor, they'd still be discussing the semantics of discussing the problem.

Posted by: metalman on February 22 2008 2:28 PM

Woo! zinger to D. Rogers! True though.
All well said folks, and true too. I seem to recall some "expert"** saying that dredging is not the solution.
I guess I am purdy simple, but I cannot see how dredging a relatively narrow & deep channel well out into Fraser's river would not work. I was wrong about the dynamite though, so maybe...
**expert: x is an unknown quantity,
spurt is a drip under pressure.
metalman.

Posted by: sum42guy2k on February 22 2008 5:44 PM

get rid of the mayor and council as they know nothing! Its time that we sent a message! Maybe a demonstration might help the mayor and council see that they are not all that bright and that they act like little babies!

Posted by: owl on February 23 2008 8:02 AM

In any other business, making sure that emergencies are properly handled is the job of the administration and their staff and contractors. Boards and Councils getting involved is micro managing. Based on that, the Council is there to make sure that staff is doing what any reasonable staff would do, which includes making the odd mistake every now and then, especially when dealing with a new decision.

So, the time is coming when Council will have to make the difficult decision of how well the city has performed in handling the situation and providing accolades where that is appropriate and looking for ways to improve the situation where it may not have worked as they think it should have.

After that, if the citizens feel that Council has not assessed the situation properly and acted appropriately, it will be the turn of the citizens to evaluate Council and act accordingly.

As far as the position of Mayor goes, that position should be to follow the wishes of Council as those are voiced at meetings and the citizens as they are voiced at election time. Of course, that all gets tied in with being the figurehead and the chief promoter of the City.

Posted by: owl on February 23 2008 8:04 AM

ooops

The "new decision" at the end of the 1st paragraph above should be "situation"

Posted by: owl on February 23 2008 8:07 AM

Remember that it is not the mayor who gets paid the big bucks to figure these things out �.. it is the City Manager and his senior staff.

Posted by: Chester on February 23 2008 3:24 PM

And what about the City Manager? Where is he? If we take any hints from Donald Trump, the Project Manager (City Manager) is responsible for the project. And accountable. Why isn't he brought into the criticism? Chester

Posted by: lunarbase on February 23 2008 4:52 PM

Actually it is the consultants that the City of PG seems to hire every time there is something to think about that make the money. If I was a manager for the city I would be embarrassed to say that I was. Seems everything has to be figured out they need to hire a consultant !

Posted by: acrider54 on February 24 2008 6:14 AM

Fonzy for mayor, I mean Eugene.

Posted by: owl on February 24 2008 7:03 PM

"Actually it is the consultants that the City of PG seems to hire every time there is something to think about that make the money."

Not normally true that they make that much more, if more at all.

The total consulting rates you see published would include the disbursements for their travel and accommodation expenses, plus other out of pocket expenses.

In addition, they charge an hourly fee and/or day rates which are �loaded� to cover overhead of operating their business. When one looks at the successul consultants� annual financial statements and discovers the actual net salaries they are able to pull out of their total business income, I would say they might hover around the same salary levels of many senior City managers. Others will be below them. Very few will be above.