Welcome to the real world. It is a fact IMO that a few wreck it for all. Race? Age? Motoring public? When they let only a three (white or whatever) students in a local small store they do it to prevent shoplifting. Some students steal. But not all students . When I buy gasoline now they ask fer dough in advance. Not because I am perceived as a potential thief but because one person was killed. Besides that which doesn't kill me makes me stronger. Lastly maybe you should have a talk with the chief of the Osoyoos band. He seems to have the world by the tail. Get back to us on this.

Harbinger your comment I believe, is exactly what the reader is refering to.

Dear reader, it is absolutely true. Racism, sexism and all the other isms have merely gone into stealth mode and are hard to prove. I myself am subject to discrimination. I am native to Canada not aboriginal and face the same derogatory remarks because I am not an English white male (I only use that analogy because historically that's where the racism and discrimation originated.)

Those of you who believe that what the reader has written to the editor has no validity whatsoever, I suggest do a little research. It won't kill you as harbinger put it in his post.

I too am offended when people talk down at others and are unable to show mutual respect for another human being. Reader some of those who perpetuate the problem are either ignorant they are doing so, suffering from low self esteem themselves, or are in fact through and through racists.

Thank you for writing in and sharing your experiences. The public really needed to hear that IMO. I generally ignore people who say things like that. However, you have awakened me to realize sometimes, like in the workplace, one really does need to report that kind of behavior.

I just want to thank this reader. You must be a very couragious person. Thank you

The trouble is that sometimes it's a full blown knowingly racist comment, but other times its a simple off the cuff remark where whoever is saying it may not realize they're being racist.

So, for instance, what happens is that those other kids in that same class pick up on the remarks from the teacher, not the glarringly racist ones, maybe the the slight remarks. They also pick it up from others around them. Parents, other kids, whatever. So that eventually it becomes a sort of built-in/social response. They grow up and pass it on to their kids.

When's the last time you heard, "oh, that drunk white guy downtown". No, they're just "the drunk guy downtown". Now, how many times have you heard "the drunk indian downtown". That qualifier is often in there.

So it becomes a part of our society from generation to generation.

Not a new problem to this world and the solution starts with respect.

Those are my thoughts to this, as someone who's never considered themselves a racist, but realized that some of the ways Ive reacted and some of the things I've said would put me in the category.

It's something we should all be concious about.

My rant for the day.

Thank you Reader for writing this letter. I was enraged by the blatant racism that was and is displayed on this page on a regular basis. It will be interesting to see if those listed above recant or apologize... If not maybe they should be banned from making comments!

I think I understand what this writer is attempting to say in regards to "racism" and how it might relate to First Nations people,but I also think the term "racism" is in fact, a very mis-understood and over used terminology.
I also think,that even though I agree with much the writer has said, he/she has said little or nothing in regards to what steps are being taken by First Nations themselves to help change the situation?
Why is it the responsibilty of only the "white" society to make those much needed changes?
What is it we need to give you?
Do First Nations people not have a responsibility to work at making these much needed changes by looking after each other?
All people react to given situations,and when they see the same situations repeated over and over,is it not logical that "stereotyping" comes in to play?
Is it not understandable that in order for change to happen,BOTH sides of the issue must be addressed?
Can the writer not understand the frustration that others feel at constantly being subjected to an attitude that it all belongs to First Nations and "we" took away from them?
Why can't it belong to all of us that live and work here in the 21st.century?
We have nowhere else to go anymore than first nations people do,so are we not all in different parts of the same boat?
Why does there always have to be a wall?
The past is just that,the past.
It no longer exists and it will NOT be coming back.
An example: recently,the government started handing out cheques to survivors of the residential schools.It solved nothing and is actually hurting many,but that is what is happening.
I also know a number of First Nations people themselves who agree it was a huge mistake to do that.
But nobody listened to them.
It has actually killed some, and will probably kill more.
What did First Nations leadership do to help those people with all the problems that came with those cheques and sudden wealth?
Handing someone a large cheque solved nothing, and there could have been a better way to do it.
I personally know some who received very large amounts of money.
It's mostly all gone now, and nothing changed,so how did that help anything?
How does money fix the past?
The other day,even inspite of that same money,I saw where a formal apology is still being sought from the canadian government.
That government is also the "people" of Canada.
When does it end and when does the healing begin?
Why is it the obligation of those who had NOTHING to do with the mistakes made in residential schools or in the past, to issue a formal apology?
What will come after that apology?
It has already been aknowledged that it was time of great shame for Canada and never should have happened.
But it did, and now it is over.
How will saying "we are sorry" change anything in the past?
It is the present we are concerned with now.
And,if you are going to point the finger and call the "white" society "racist", you should also be prepared to accept responsibilty for the things that have nothing to do with "racism".
Some of those things are about changes that can only made by First Nations people and attitudes they themselves have.
We cannot force change down someones throat,they have to WANT it and be a part of it.
Constant confrontation will solve nothing.
In fact,it WILL make things worse.
And they ARE getting worse, and if that keeps happening,all the gains made over the years will be lost in the end.
Blame does not solve anything,particularly when those being blamed were not a part of what happened.
Maybe First Nations people need to start believing that not everyone feels the same way about native issues and not everyone is a "racist".
Many people are just plain tired of watching the same things happen over and over and never getting any better.
That doesn't really make them all "racist"
That is nothing more than a term used to describe a situation that is intolerable to BOTH sides involved for lack of a better word.
I am sure many times the situations the writer described in the above happen,even if they are not always intentional,but the solution lies in the root causes of the problems.
And those root causes belong to BOTH sides of the issue,not just one.
Unfortunately those issues are NOT being addressed yet, and until they do NOTHING will change.

White,Black,Yellow,Redskin,Paleface, Big,Small,Tall,Short,Ugly,Crippled,Dumb,Polack,Wap,Heeb,Slant,Limey,Moose,Midget,Squarehead,Wetback,Woodenshoe,Oatmeal savage, We are all human beings that fit in one or more of the above catagories. God helps those who help themselves. There are twenty or so potential grounds for civil rights lawsuits mentioned above. Get a grip on yourself,these are only words. They only mean what you want them to mean. Get on with life. Call me any of the above, just don't call me late for dinner.

Why did you ask this?
"What is it we need to give you?"

this question demonstrates arrogance..
assuming they want we we have.. It shows a lack of respect for the values of other cultures.

The same complaints about native indians I read in this article can also be applied to Chinese and East Indian, yet East Indians and Chinese don't have any trouble graduating high school.

There are first nations only schools which still have an atrocious graduation rate, so who's fault is that?

There are jerks everywhere. When I was in school, people were picked on mercilessly for wearing clothing bought at Zellers. Kids who could afford brand name clothing would destroy the clothing poorer kids were wearing. Kids who were smaller, weaker, nerdy, etc... were picked on mercilessly in ways which would net jail time outside of the school system.

If you're unfortunate enough to be on the receiving end of this, your life is hell, but I don't know too many on the receiving end who didn't graduate high school.

If someone fails school, it's their own damn fault for not doing the work, it has nothing to do with race.

I have respect for the original people of this great land. I have no difficulty in saying "I am sorry". I am even sorrier that you have to explain yourself.
I imagine you would like respect and we would all like that.
Thank you for taking the time to write your letter.
It was very thorough and explains the difficulties that you have to go through when all you want is the respect of your fellow citizens.
You have mine.

It is about time that some critical comments were made about some of the posts in this forum. I am glad you did so. I also congratulate you for not falling into the trap that many do of returning the insults. You have shown remarkable restraint.

I would like to add that the motto of the University of Northern British Columbia is "en cha' huna", a saying of Carrier Elders, with a direct translation "he/she also lives". To quote from a Thesis for a Master's Degree from the University "It was used by Elders when an individual was being critical of another and served to remind that the other was a living being with a voice and a viewpoint. The motto encapsulates respect for others."
(Alcoholism, Group Therapy and Self-Esteem, Phyllis R Parker, 1999).

Well said Andyfreeze, well said. Folks the world is changing fast. Yes look to the past for leasons learned, but don't dwell too long for the future is comming and it is comming fast and hard. Everyone in this country better be on the same page.

My friend was in UNBC to become a teacher. The only racism she ever encountered was from a Native instructor. All this instructor did was make everone in the class feel horrid for being non-native. If the native children are being raised by teachers like this one, they haven't a snowballs chance in hell of not being racist... from the native side. I wouldn't even begin to tell my children stuff like this woman was forcing down her student's throats.

Being a white person I too was discriminated against badly, but at the time (many years ago) I was too timid to avail myself of the legal options (very limited ones) open at the time.

Would the same thing happen to me today (it won't...the laws are much stricter now) I would sue and become a millionaire just like that and teach them a good lesson at the same time!

This means that a lot of progress has been made in the meantime, however slowly!

I am appalled by how you have been treated and if something like that happens again (like in the restaurant in front of witnesses) use the provisions of the law to the fullest degree possible!

Don't get mad, get even lawfully! Good Luck, brother!

unreal....load of crap... i owe nobody nothing plain and simple...i work and i pay my way....we are all as one and it should be treated as such. FN is not proof to me. i am now going to stick with my group and put on my blinders, this politics is driving me nuts.
dont care dont wanna hear the bitchin ...cheers

Complete lack of personal respect. It shows in many ways for some and it incites the 'racism' that they (black white brown yellow) complain about.

If you have a building and it has broken windows and no one ever fixes the broken windows, then it is not long before people treat that building as garbage and break all remaining windows and trash the place. The best way to have people respect that building is to fix the windows when they are first broken, so the building doesn't get run down in the first place, and thus incite people to break more windows. Ditto for your dignity. Think about that.

IMO the number one problem for most natives is self respect and how to assert their own self respect independent of what anyone else says. The ones having problems need to be taught that to maintain their personal dignity is to earn the respect of others.

IMO Yama and Ragtop merely stated ugly facts that are legitimate points to make in an honest assessment of a large part of the statistics at hand. I think it is honest to say that a lot of Irish people have drinking problems, and fight when they drink, but the Irish don’t use that against themselves. I also think a lot of white people are ignorant, natives have babies at to young an age, and Chinese people live by the god of wealth, the lesbian modern woman lives an angry life, and the East Indian people can sure live a lot of people to a single house as an unfair advantage. All of these are opinions that are entirely legitimate if we wish to curb those undesirable traits we see in some of our neighbours.

It is far better in some cases to generalize those undesirable traits to a group rather than specifically accuse an individual directly to more effectively convey an expect norm without forcing the offended ears from having to accept and own the disrespect to themselves personally.

IMO walking out of the drug store without making a purchase was a very good first step, and no I don’t think your comments about the drug store were racist against all drug stores… just a generalization of an undesirable norm you experienced at one of those stores without directly attacking the store in question.

Sometime ago while working in Ft St John. I followed a brand new Ford F350 with a lift kit with all the latest accessories. Covering the entire back window was a sign printed in bold letters "Thanks for the truck Whitey" As I passed the pick up I had to have a peek at who was driving, a young native. Seems it's OK for some people advertising the fact and nothing is said because "Whitey" may offend them. I think discrimination goes both ways but unfortunatley only "Whitey's" can discriminate.

The writer is absolutely correct! Those are terrible experiences. It is not right or fair to make judgements or treat people different, based on race, age or sex. BUT this is being done all the time! How many programs available to people are based on the fact that you must be a qualified native to take advantage of them? They should be open to anyone that needs the program. How about the jobs that are advertised targeting minorities (ANY minorities not just native).......they should be available to any qualified person. There are a lot of people that are part native but we don't qualify for programs because you can't formally trace it. Until EVERYONE is treated equally, racism will be rampant.

A wonderful article. It has drawn out many perspectives, some of which, I previously shared as a person of European descent.

Racism, aka ethnocentrism is universal, but it can be diminished with attempts to understand the other person's perspective. I have worked to understand the First Nation perspective and it has brought about some very good relations with North America's first peoples.

A key to understanding a First Nation's perspective from a immigrant's perspective is to put oneself into a First Nation member's place. It is understood that we are not going anywhere, but it helps if one gives recognition to their culture and history. This is the place of their traditional territory, it isn't going away either.

I was given advice by a First Nation leader, that when travelling into another First Nation territory that I should thank them for allowing me on their territory. As a white person, at first I found this to be uncomfortable to say the least, but after I said it, the response from the members was unbelievably positive. They rarely hear this from a descendant of Europeans.

I now do this automatically, and I have to say, that it cost me nothing. They know that I'm not moving away, but the respect for their culture makes a deep impact on their reception of me.

Like anyone, First Nation's people want to be acknowledged with respect. Respect costs nothing, but it definitely brings an affirmative response.

Where was the respect on the sign in the back window of that ford truck.You have to give respect in order to get respect.

A wonderful article. It has drawn out many perspectives, some of which, I previously shared as a person of European descent.

Racism, aka ethnocentrism is universal, but it can be diminished with attempts to understand the other person's perspective. I have worked to understand the First Nation perspective and it has brought about some very good relations with North America's first peoples.

A key to understanding a First Nation's perspective from a immigrant's perspective is to put oneself into a First Nation member's place. It is understood that we are not going anywhere, but it helps if one gives recognition to their culture and history. This is the place of their traditional territory, it isn't going away either.

I was given advice by a First Nation leader, that when travelling into another First Nation territory that I should thank them for allowing me on their territory. As a white person, at first I found this to be uncomfortable to say the least, but after I said it, the response from the members was unbelievably positive. They rarely hear this from a descendant of Europeans.

I now do this automatically, and I have to say, that it cost me nothing. They know that I'm not moving away, but the respect for their culture makes a deep impact on their reception of me.

Like anyone, First Nation's people want to be acknowledged with respect. Respect costs nothing, but it definitely brings an affirmative response.

Sorry for the double post.

Redneck, I appreciate what you're saying. But respect has to start somewhere - someone has to be the bigger person in individual relationships. Ethnocentrism is prevalent in any culture. Who is going to take the first step to end this, who is going to turn the other cheek?

In the States, First Nations were rounded up and put on reserves, then when it was decided that that land was more valuable for European immigrants in some cases the First Nations were driven off of that land, because of its value.

My point is, we have to come to an accommodation sooner or later. Sooner will benefit everyone, because it squares things and lets us all move on with our lives.

Prosperity within First Nations will benefit all Northerners, continuation of old policies definitely will harm everyone, because nothing is accomplished.

Look at Alaska, it established Native Corporations, those corporations have led in domestic investments in Alaska. It is their First Nation's home and their investments are benefiting First Nations but also the immigrant communities much more than other business investments. The same thing can happen in BC.

Don't get me wrong, there are still issues between First Nations and other Alaskans, but, there is a much better degree of co-operation between them notwithstanding their differences. Alaskan First Nation cultural pride and self-respect is predominant there. With BC First Nation successes, it will be seen in BC too.

All too often people speak/act before they think. We've all had some sort of jab made towards us i'm sure. Years ago I once went to a lake with a friend and their family members. We were sitting around the fire and the family members started telling experiences and turning them into jokes. Well one family member told a story about a few years earlier about some german men he had run into...blah blah blah ended it with saying,"bleeping nazi's!" My friend and I just looked at one another, the person noticed the stare and apologized.
I've noticed the problem here in P.G. is horrible with discrimmination against First Nations. I worked at a place while in highschool where my manager told us to "watch those people". I not once did but what I did do is ask if the customer needed help if not I went about my business. We all got together and complained to Human Resources and the manager was fired.

1. Someone pre-judging a student based on race or ethnicity or gender

2. Making a loud, boisterous, condescending remark about someone for any reason

3. Pay before you eat based on based on race or ethnicity or gender.

4. Singling a customer out in a store based on race or ethnicity or gender

5. Being characterized as drunk because of race or ethnicity, while ignoring other signs

6. Not hiring someone because of on race or ethnicity or gender

Someone asked what do these people want?

Another said go talk to the Chief in Osoyoos, and on and on came the ethnic slurs from the usual crowd who we all know are allowed to continue to post ethnic slurs on here in the name of freedom of speech.

What can you give to them?

- RESPECT and EQUAL treatment that you typically provide to others.

- Non-discriminatory treatment as required under the laws of the country

- The freedom to choose how they will handle the world around them, just as you have that freedom rather than being told to go talk to someone else first that the individual thinks handles such matters in the way they should be handled.

So many posts in response to this letter blame the first nations for the bigotry of others. Why is that?

Eagleone uses the analogy of a building that has broken windows being the target of vandalism. He says that repairing the windows would reduce the vandalism. Presumably the building represents First nations people and the broken windows the racism. Well, vandals breaking windows in a building are also breaking the law, and if they vandalise the building enough they can be sent to jail for it. So with racial bigotry. Actions based on hate are illegal and people doing it can be sent to jail. Think on that, too.

Lets extend the analogy further. How did the building get vandalised in the first place. The history is that many years ago the parents of the vandals went in at gun point and expelled the rightful owners. They stripped the valuables from the building, broke some windows so it could not be occupied, then abandoned it. Their children were then encouraged at breakfast and supper every day to look down on the owners of the bulding because they didn't repair it. That just proved their cultural inferiority, after all. They would have repsired it if they respected the building and themselves, right? They had been forced into bankruptcy at gun point, but the state of the buiding was their fault, right? I don't think so.

Of course, the building owners have now realised that they can take the vandals to court to get some compensation for the criminal acts of their parents. They argue that by continuing the vandalism the children of those who destroyed the building are in fact continuing the destruction started by their forbears and are just as responsible for it as their parents. After all, they still benefit financially from selling off the contents of the building stolen by their parents. Now the vandals scream and cry, "But it was our parents, not us. Why do we have to pay? Don't live in the past. We have the right to keep selling the property. It's been ours for a hundred years."

The fact is that the victims of bigotry are never, ever, responsible for the bigotry. Those who argue that they are partly responsible are using an argument that is the equivalent of the one that says females who wear tight clothes are asking to be raped. The perpetrator - the rapist - the bigot - are totally responsible. First Nations people who have difficulties in our society for various reasons are not responsible for the underlying causes of those problems, nor for the vicious, bigoted and racist comments and actions directed at them.

On an individual basis all people can make life choices, but those choices can only be made from among the available possibilities. As an example, those children who only have access to a limited education because of government policies may not be able to choose university training in a medical school to become a doctor. Saying that they could have gone on to do so is nonsense, especially if their teachers are so bigoted that they are failed before the school year starts. I have met one such teacher from the Hart area many years ago, and a racist bigot he most certainly was.

One thing we do know absolutely for certain is that the bigoted racist can choose not to make their bigoted remarks. YamaDooPolCat was under no compulsion to suggest that Natives were responsible for the crime in Prince George. He could have kept his fingers off the keyboard and his mouth shut. That choice was well within his possibility level. He is responsible for that, nobody else.

In my opinion, Eagleone, the major difficulty faced by First Nations people is attitudes like yours. Constant repetition of unsubstantiated stereotypes does have an effect on those criticised. An example is your completely gratuitous remarks about Irish people. Irish people are no more likely to get drunk and fight than anyone else. That is a bigoted, stereotype. Yet you repeat it as if it is a god ordained truth. I was at an Irish friends house for a St. Patrick's day party last night and nobody got drunk, and nobody had a fight. I am English and nobody even mentioned the troubles. Get over the myths! That paragraph repeats many of them as being true, when they are just bigoted stereotypes.

When will we get to the stage when we say that some children have babies at too early an age and not that Natives do? When will we get to the stage when we say that some people live by the God of wealth and not that Chinese do? When will we get to the stage when we say that some people live an angry life and not that lesbians do? When will we get to the stage when we say that some people live in crowded conditions and not that East Indians do?

Why do you put it these ways? You explain, "we wish to curb those undesirable traits we see in some of our neighbours". When did other people's life choices become any of your business? Why is your way "desirable" and theirs "undesirable"? Who are you to set yourself up as the standard of what is and is not acceptable in Canada? Who the hell are you?

Tell me, how can we curb the undesirable trait we see in you of legitimising bigotry?

i agree but disagree. No one should be judged that way. I am not defending any ignorant comments, i just want to play devils advocate for a minute. There are always a handful of people that give a group of people a bad name, and what do we always see - the bad ones, or at least that is what we focus on. I for one have to pay tax on everything, i beleive that if you live on a reserve, you have tax exempt status. I have seen too many times that people who have this status come in to buy things, ask for the tax exemption knowing that it has to be delivered to a recognized reserve, ask us to do a faulty delivery or have us meet them at the reserve and take it to there homes in the rural community. These are people taking advantage of something. They are taking advantage of their heritage when they really dont care about it. These are the things "white people" see. In another case, you have a prominant lawyer in town who gives someone cash to go in and buy his vehicle so he can save a few dollars by taking advantage of tax exemption and then have it tranfer into his name. This is a true story that happened, i was the sales man, i almost lost my job when i spoke about how wrong it was. We see this everyday, and how can you blame them for being angry, Native people get benefits that white people dont. Wouldnt that make you angry? East Indians being aloud to carry knives under their clothing because of religion. White man or native does it and it is considered a concealed weapon. I dont blame either side for their anger, but i blame both sides for lack of humanity. Did i make my point without sounding harsh? I hope so. I also hate it when i get called whitey, but i am supposed to just deal with it, so yes, racism goes both ways, and it hurts just the same.

"Of course, the building owners have now realised that they can take the vandals to court to get some compensation for the criminal acts of their parents."

For the criminal acts of their parents, great grandparents, great-great-grandparents..etc.?

Poor argument, IMHO.

Present day vandals can be taken to court, but surely not the children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren...etc?

Is that something that the law permits? I do not think so.

What if my parents/grandparents...etc lived in another country - now what?

Let's take this settling-for-compensation and apologizing thing to the level where it ought to be: Federal Law Courts, the Federal and Provincial Governments of Canada!

Let's take it out of the *person against person and blame game arena* to the next proper level!

This *collective guilt* argument that tries to include all of today's persons in responsibility for wrongs committed centuries or decades ago creates resentment and hatred, always and everywhere!

I have nothing against my government tackling and settling these age old issues - but since I personally have never done anything to contribute to the racist based discrimination I totally reject being personally fingered and accused of any of it.

In the meantime I'll keep treating everyone with the same respect and politeness as I have always done, regardless of colour, creed or gender.

I am convinced that most of the accusatory remarks that have been made above do not apply to most Canadians alive today.

Cheers!

"There are always a handful of people that give a group of people a bad name, and what do we always see - the bad ones, or at least that is what we focus on."

If a Caucasian steals, not all Caucasians get a bad name. Young Caucasians might. Unkempt Caucasians might. Caucasians hanging out in the wrong area might.

"no shoes, no shirt, no service" is a fair and non-discriminatory requirement, at least for now.

"first nations, no service" is an unacceptable discriminatory requirement punishable under the law.

The building analogy.

If you destroy a building through an act of aggressive war, rather than defensive war and the aggressor looses, then the aggressor pays reparations ... some may take several generations to attain. In the case of South Africa, Rhodesia, etc. it was a matter of more than a century before some type of restitution (such as leave your gains behind and leave the country broke) is made.

In the case of WWI it is loose all your factories and rebuild you own and loose your colonies. In the case of WWII it was we'll help you get back on your feet, and when you do, you pay for the damage that you caused as best as one can.

In the case of the indigenous folks in North America it was tht most common of today's phrases and one which I detest very much, "let's move forward" ......

a phrase that actually means in its interpretation:

"I do not want to deal with the past because my guilt may come out and I do not want to face that, so let's start new" .......

and nicely skirting the issue that the starting new is not on equal footing any longer.

"Please try to imagine that you are a grade 8 native student"

- Try to imagine yourself as a grade 8 white kid going to school with 75% naitive kids. Ask me and i will write you a book on what it was like.! So i was beaten up by them at school does that mean i can file a claim against the govt for harsh treatment by race also? like aboriginals did on the residential school system?
- My relatives where in the holocaust..Am i sueing the German goverment because my race was treated unfairly? No im not because it happend in the past and i can move on with my life without recieving financial gain or special treatment to move on with my life.
- I read a couple posts back "Thanks for the truck whitey" by a person who saw some naitve guys driving a truck with that decal in the back. Recently i saw a bumper sticker in pg that said " Thanks whitey your tax dollars paid for this truck" Ok now just think of what would happen if white males had racisit remarks on their trucks. Please post them if you have saw it i would like to know if there is or not.
-The only reason there is racisim in this province/country is beacause our usless government hasnt delt with it!
-Im just sick of all of this..The people who scream racisim the most are usually the ones who are creating the problem in the first place. The more i learn about canada's history and the way our government handles this issue the more i dont feel free here.

Unitas77 wrote "Native people get benefits that white people dont. Wouldnt that make you angry? East Indians being aloud to carry knives under their clothing because of religion. White man or native does it and it is considered a concealed weapon."

Yes, First Nations peope get benefits that others do not. That includes black people, chinese people and all other non-First nations people, not just the "white people" that you mention. That is because it is a partial payment to them from the rest of us for using their property (BC). Think of it as rent. If you do not like it, then let me live in your house for free and drive your car at your expense.

You are absolutely wrong about East Indians being allowed to carry hidden knives. They are not. Hindus and Muslims and Parsees from India have no right to do so as their religion does not require it. It is those who practice the religion of Sikhism that are required to carry a Kirpan as a religious observance. You know what, it applies to Sikhs born in Canada for several generations. You know, Canadians who happen to be Sikh. In fact, if you were to convert to Sikhism, you would also be allowed to carry a Kirpan. So where is the discrimination if you could do it too should you match the criteria they have to meet?

I will be 65 in September. That means I can get an occasional free trip on the ferries, and I can get a discount in some stores. Does that mean everyone else is being discriminated against because I get a benefit they do not?

Racism? Does a non-white involved baseball tournament count? Or what if the shoe was on the other foot? An all white involved baseball tournament instead. Maybe this summer baseball season will be different. Maybe.

What is accepted in a social system is evolving.

Women are trying to get into the Olympics as Ski jumpers .... so far no accceptance.

Wow. A lot of long posts here.

My only comment to the letter writer is, someone can't 'make you feel' a certain way.

Feelings are something we CHOOSE to do.

Think about it. Rise above it. Easy to say, much tougher to do sure. But worth it.

Racism not just a native issue.

My parents were discriminated when they first came to Canada. Ask the old school German or Italian immigrant what it was like after WW2 coming to Canada to start a new life. I remember my mother getting slapped by a local (Non-White) at the old train station because she spoke German to me and my brother. We were hated and there were no laws to protect us! We would sit in a restaurant and eat our soup and over hear people calling us DPS. In school we were beat up and called Nazis, I did not even know what a Nazi was at that time.
My folks came here and made their way with a lot of discrimination taking place daily and it was socially acceptable by most of the public. English was an important tool to make ones way through life here. My folks never complained to the government they went and learned English on their own dime.
Over the years they worked very hard as so many other immigrants’ did, and they never asked this country or its people for anything. They had pride and never gave up hope and stayed focused. My father came to this land with $30 and never asked for anything from nobody. They made a good life here and were proud to be Canadians. My folks were never bitter towards anyone for their hard life that they had prior. East Indians, Chinese and so many other people continue to come to this great land to do what my parents did 60 years ago.
So i ask this question, why can so many immigrants come to this country and have nothing not even the gift of speaking the native tongue and end up doing well?
This topic will never end unless the past is put behind and the future is focused on (as one).
Payouts are not the answer nor should they continue. Certain groups are collecting from years prior.....I wonder if i could collect some freebees also?
You are not the only ones that have felt Racism!
Cheers

Natives on the lower mainland, have recently put eviction notices on some churches, telling them to get their buildings off of their land. Entered a house of worshio protesting. Is that respect? I don't think so.

Getajob, it's only a bit after 8 in the morning and with your great comment you have already made my day!

Thanks!

Ammonra that was really low your last post. I now have to classify you as on of the angry crowd for the manor of your post. I must have touched a nerve. I think you took a lot of liberties with my character with out just cause based solely on your misplaced assumptions.

I thought it was completely uncalled for to say things like the following when associating the argument to my character:

"Those who argue that they are partly responsible are using an argument that is the equivalent of the one that says females who wear tight clothes are asking to be raped. The perpetrator - the rapist - the bigot - are totally responsible."

That was completely uncalled for and I demand a clarification of your accusation or an apology or you are worse than anything you claim to pontificate about. Drawing a connection of a bigot to a rapist is over the line and saying that one is a bigot if a ‘partiality argument’ is made in responsibility for racism is a completely separate issue.

I used the example of the broken window in a building. You ranted on that I was saying a family was robbed at gun point as a result and driven off by the government and insinuated all sorts of stuff cumulating into rape as views and character you used to label me. You need to take your medications.

The broken window analogy is not my creation, but rather a common analogy used for many things from run down neighbourhoods, to the human habit of litter when others are also littering. My analogy had nothing to do with your vile assumptions. My analogy was more along the lines that if you live the part, then expect people to call you on it. If you want to dress trashy, talk trashy, wear your hat sideways, carry all the bling bling… then people are going to say those dudes are gang bangers (get your mind out of the gutter) or those guys with the tattoos look like bikers, and in the case of self respect it means when you passively allow others to demean you, then you encourage them to do it more in the future, but if you take the other many options such as ignoring their ignorance with your head up looking them eye to eye, or you use reason to deconstruct their ignorance and turn their ignorance back onto themselves in shame, then you are in effect repairing the broken windows as they break and through those small efforts taken one at a time you build a facade that does not easily invite the kind of criticisms that you find undesirable. Rape was never part of the parable until you brought it up as your issue.

Your issues sounds like they have to do with orientation as evidenced by the question you directly asked relating to that. You obviously have issues with my opinion in that I find that lifestyle to be undesirable, unhealthy (both physically and mentally) and that I feel those people are actually breaking their own windows hurting their own self respect, because I feel they are ignoring nature and as a result they tend to have anger management issues. Obviously you couldn't disagree with me more, but that gives you no right to diminish my opinion by calling me a rapist through your concocted associations where you draw lines of inference far worse than anything that is acceptable.

You are a hypocrite IMO. And I am not a bigot for promoting self respect and opposing defeatism for politically correct ism’s. I expect an apology from you (Ammonra) otherwise I will have no more respect for anything else you have to say.


I apologize to the others for sounding so angry myself.

Also I don't buy your argument that you make a racist statement simply by prefaceing it with "When will we get to the stage when... is no longer acceptable."

Then you wrote,

"Why do you put it these ways? You explain, "we wish to curb those undesirable traits we see in some of our neighbours". When did other people's life choices become any of your business? Why is your way "desirable" and theirs "undesirable"? Who are you to set yourself up as the standard of what is and is not acceptable in Canada? Who the hell are you?"

Its called standards of a self respecting person. Obviously a new concept to yourself. Each person is entitled to have their own standard of self respect... it is what being an individual of choices is all about... some chose to live by a high standard based on their personal ethic, and others don't even know what their personal ethic is in order to have a standard to live by. So you ask who am I, or should I say who the hell am I, and I say who the helll are you, and what is your ethic, and thus what kind of standard to you expect? As a medical practicioner I am sure you are aware of the arguments of personal ethic, and if not then it is a damn shame and not much of a surprise considering your political pursuasion.

I'm ME... are you YOU. What is so wrong with wanting others to share your values anyways?

Eagleone, you may expect whatever you choose to expect, but I do not apologise for my opinions.

I did not call you a rapist. I pointed out that saying that the victims of bigotry are partly responsible for the attacks on them because of the way they live is no different from arguing that wearing tight clothes is asking to be raped. The argument is the same, the circumstances differ. In both cases the victim is innocent and the perpetrator guilty. That is all I said.

It makes no difference who originated the analogy of the broken window, you used it to justify why you think that First Nations people are responsible in some way for the bigotry directed at them. I extended it to give a possible reason why they are in that circumstance against their will.

As to your comment on my "orientation". If by "orientation" you mean my sexual orientation, then know that I am an extremely straight, heterosexual male who has been married to the same woman for 44 years. I have no inclination towards sex with men, nor even other women. If my objection to your gratuitous remarks about lesbians is the reason you make that assertion, does my objection to the same kind of gratuitous aspersions you made about Chinese people, East Indians, young Native people and the Irish mean you believe I am an Irish East Indian with a young Native Chinese wife? Why do you focus on that particular objection rather than one of the others?

You, of course, have the right to live by whatever standards you choose, based on whatever criteria you choose. You do not have the right to demand that others must live by those same standards or be considered inferior in some fashion. All people should be able to live their lives however they choose without being judged as somehow having "undesirable traits", as you expressed it.

I am not a medical practioner. That term is used to refer to doctors. I was a histotechnologist. What I am is a Canadian Citizen who both respects and approves of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and who believes that all individuals have the right to live their lives as they wish. I always strongly argue against prejudice in all its myriad forms even when presented in a righteous format. And yes, I have been the victim of such myself in the past.

Thank you for your final insult about my "political pursuasion". I regret having lost your respect, but so be it.

You can't say anything anymore these days and right away you are classified to be a racist or a hatemonger.
Sad society when loud minority groups use this as a weapon.

Ammonra you wrote, "I extended it to give a possible reason why they are in that circumstance against their will."

There was no circumstance in my analogy. There was a cause and effect with a hidden meaning that when you let things slip they become bigger problems in the future. You are the one that created the circumstance with the analogy to a bigoted rapists.

At least we can agree that my insult on your political pursuation as it relates to personal ethics awareness was a good point.

Despite the verbose rebuttals above, it doesn't change the fact that there are racist comments posted here periodicly, almost exclusivly towards first nations people.

It's a very sad statement about ignorance and intolerance..... and yes words can and do hurt people.

So "to whom it may concern".... grow up and knock it off

It was a point, anyway.

Blame the government for exacerbating the problem by persisting in allowing the apparent favouring of native indian status. I say apparent, because that is the impression we get when all we hear about is payouts for residential school 'survivors' and native only fisheries, etc. etc. I say again; "as long as the lawyers and others involved can keep making a profit at this industry, they will keep on milking it" When I was growing up I went to school with many different indian kids through the years, they were not treated any different as far as I can remember, we all played together, kids of many races. Only the government can bring about the changes needed to make us all equal again.
metalman.

Well said metalman!
Our all knowing government is to blame for many of the long term problems, and obviously they have no intention of changing the way they deal with native issues.
That's called "control" and it is also just what First Nations leaders have been telling them for years.
They are not listening!
Cut the apron strings!

There are at least two sides to every story. Not long ago I listened to a radio interview with a wonderful native lady, who had become a famous artist.

She said that everything she is today she owes to the fact that she was made to attend a residential school as a child.

She said that she received an education there. She learned English there and the three Rs - reading, writing, arithmetic, plus much more, like painting, poetry and music.

She said that she benefited greatly from it.

I would never dispute the fact that SOME were abused at residential schools.
I also happen to know others who have no bad memories of the residential schools they attended.
Not ALL residential schools engaged in mass abuse of children, even though FORCING people to send their kids to one was probably a form of abuse in itself.
The fact that there are 48 posts on this topic should tell us that this whole native issue needs some serious looking at by BOTH sides!
And it is long overdue!