Can't believe they are going to go ahead with this project“If you build it they will come”,wow can you believe that comment.Maybe all these potholes and such leading up to this new facility could be used as local art work too.

Is there anyone else out there feeling 'taxed out'? They are going to get what they want, and average guy/gal won't be able to afford to go to the venue anyway. Hey...they can sell wine during the intermissions to offset costs of operations.
If it's such a good deal let the private sector build it make a profit.

It seems there is a need for a performing art centre. But the timing is not good. We have been led down the garden path for much to long. Our city has a huge debt and they are just adding more to the pile.

Our infrostructure is falling down around us and all we get is this shit about the cup is half full and keep on muddeling on down the road. A few years back the Mutltiplex the library and a new pool were needs.We went out had a referendum infact atleast two that come to mind. We borrowed the money and we didnt have to go begging to senior levels of goverment to help us build these facilities.

But we no longer believe in a referendum there is no rime or reasonfore to our needs. Our City fathers tell us what we can have.

Cheers.

REFERENDUM...anything less IS ramming this down peoples throats!

Governance by plebesite(referendums)doesn't work. The average dimwit is incapable of making an informed decision on anything. The number of NDP governments we've had should be proof of that.

Why not perform plays and stuff in the way under-utilized gallery we already have built.
If 5 people show up per day there, its like a crowd compared to usual in that dump.

Can we not use the multiplex,civic centre,PG Play house for this?

Good, for the PAC. I am not necessarily a bleedin hearted liberal. But I think it will be good for the community. I know it will not make money or break even for the year.

But does the library? Does the swimming pools, do the city parks. No they don't but, what kind of uproar would we have if we shut them down.

Good Luck.

@jonnypg:

“If you build it they will come”

They are already here, and their current facilities are mostly only in fair condition and often not available (Vanier Hall especially, being a school classroom).

@maxwell:

“If it's such a good deal let the private sector build it make a profit.”

NO public facility runs at a profit. By your standard there’d be no skating rinks, no soccer fields, no baseball diamonds, no civic centre, no library, no museum, no parks, no trail system, no swimming pools, etc. No roads, either, if they were to be “profitable.”

It would be a GREAT place to live, wouldn’t it? It would go a long way encouraging businesses and health care professionals and tourists to come here, wouldn’t it?

@Bridge:

“But the timing is not good.”

In good times it appears “the timing is not good.” In uncertain times it appears “the timing is not good.” Apparently the timing will never be good, so now is the very best time.

@Andyfreeze:

“REFERENDUM...anything less IS ramming this down peoples throats!”

I look forward to a referendum - it will pass. The real question is whether you will stop complaining after “the people have spoken?”

@turbocat:

“Why not perform plays and stuff in the way under-utilized gallery we already have built.”

Why not play basketball on the soccer fields? Why not play baseball on a basketball court? Why not use the Civic Centre to hold additional hospital beds? Why not use a backyard rink to host minor hockey tournaments? Clearly the space, technology and specifications are completely different. For example, please understand TNW doesn’t perform in warehouse - the perform in a CONVERTED warehouse - one that was turned into a simple blackbox theatre with lots of specialized equipment, but seating that people still complain about.

@getajob:

“Can we not use the multiplex,civic centre,PG Play house for this?”

Yes, and we do. But there is much going on (and can go on) that these facilities are not suitable for. A PAC in the right location also enhances the options the Civic Centre has for attracting larger conferences.

I am also pretty sure that it says that because the people who want this tax grab have paid to have someone say so.
Can't prove it , but I believe it...
I also believe that everyone in town is going to pay for it even if you don't use it...
because I have no fears that they the people of Regional Performing Arts Group are suren not going to pay for it....

As quoted by Maxwell.....

"Hey...they can sell wine during the intermissions to offset costs of operations"

That'd be a great idea, but we're not allowed to drink alcohol at public events ( hockey games, many concerts - at least while watching the show )because there are too many problems apparently. What a joke. This whole thing is pure garbage. Another example of wasting money. FIX THE BLOODY ROADS FIRST!!!!!!

The downtown is a slum, roads are crumbling underneath us, people getting laid off left, right and centre, more people using food banks than ever before, post-2010 slump down the road, air so polluted you have to chew it...

... do we really NEED a PAC?

I like the idea of civic facilities if planned and operated properly. That's why I live in a medium to larger size city.

My kids are both under 6 and spend many many hours at the art gallery doing art classes every year. There kids programs are excellent. Their services are somewhat limited but we really enjoy the programs that suit my family. My kids spend hundreds of hours at the museam and would love for it to expand. I or my family never use the hockey rinks. We rarely use the pools & I go to the library once a year to check the building or plumbing code about some obscure regulation. But I know sombody uses these facilities more than I and they are needed in a community our size. Bottom line is they all cost us the tax payer money and some are used more by some than others.

If the Arts Council can show us this is a needed facility, I am willing to entertain the idea.

@Maxwell

"Hey...they can sell wine during the intermissions to offset costs of operations"

The Playhouse already does this, as does Theatre North West. Special occasion licenses are used for facilities such as Artspace. However, since Vanier Hall is part of a school, alcohol is not allowed.

Furthermore, Vanier Hall, the "premier" performing arts facility, has no lobby, no box office, no real concession, no alcohol allowed, very poor washroom facilities, no proper fly tower, no proper load-in bay, no proper dressing rooms, no green room, often has to share the building with high-school sports events (basketball/volleyball), is not available in the summer months and is not available to the community if the school decides it isn't (after mid-April next year).

Additionally, any community user of the facility has to temporarily erect those things (box office, concession) and tear them down each time they book the facility, as well as deal with the logistics of a shared facility when sports are happening in the gym. This is a massive drain on staff, volunteer and other resources.

If, and I use that word really carefully, all of the performing arts groups got together and decided to build one venue for all to use, it "might" have a better chance of getting more support.
As for downtown, I have to agree that that probably isn't the place it will go, much to the chagrine of the downtown revitalization crew.
I find it really hard to go to the downtown area as there really isn't much there I want to partake in. One trip a month maybe.
Pawnshops, tatoo parlors and a court house, just what every tourist wants to see.
Sorry retailers, yes there are some nice shops downtown, but I ain't going down there.

BCRacer I disagree 100%.

The reason our downtown is like this is because of this kind of urban planning oversight. Not all of downtown is as bad as you say either. Go to 4th Avenue between Quebec and Dominion or to 3rd Ave Quebec up to Vancouver.

If everyone thought the way you do about downtown it would all be as bad as you say or worse.

Downtown is no scarier than the Hart. At least there are some good shops & restaurants downtown.

Our city is in trouble, some want everything that the other cities have but we are already heavily taxed. I'm on fixed income, retired and look at paying about 3,000 bucks after the grant for civic taxes (add sewer and water). The roads need work, a new bridge etc., it may be time to hold off on special interest groups projects and focus on 'core' needs for a little while. Taxes go up and up every year just to maintain current service levels. In my opinion the center would be a waste of money, a perk for those people who can afford to support the venues that will be offered.

To 'Bo' - must this be a publicly owned facility???, think outside the box. Why alway chase after the taxpayers - pick on corporations and those that can afford it.

Use our hard earned money to run the town.

The PAC group is afraid for it to be put to a referendum because it will get voted down. We need this like we need another pothole on fifth avenue. As Maxwell says, these people think that just because some other city has it then we have to have it too. Give your heads a shake. We do not need another drain on our tax dollars. As far as children under 6 going to the art gallery and taking in "classes" there, in my opinion it is only a cheap babysitter. Our kids learned art at the kitchen table with some paper and crayons, and I looked after them, the taxpayers of the city didn't. We already gave the symphony orchestra another 100 grand this year. The last time we gave them 150 grand was supposed to be the last time. This is just getting completely out of hand. We need some fiscally responsible people to look after the books here, not someone who thinks we are New York City.

Death to Socialism said, "The average dimwit is incapable of making an informed decision on anything. The number of NDP governments we've had should be proof of that." I guess this means that if the population wasn't dimwits, then we would have more NDP gov'ts. Of course they would be better than the gang we have in power now.
We should use the property where Duchess Park is. It does not have to be replaced. PGSS and DP Todd could be expanded and used instead. A lot of money is being wasted on this replacement.

Uh, no.... The fact we've had ANY NDP govt proves how dim & easily led the general poulation is.

The "other cities have a PAC" argument is complete B.S.
Other cities also have greener parks, smoother roads, nice downtowns...

I look forward to a Performing Arts Centre. My taxes pay for facilities that I can't use and I don't begrudge that (hockey, swimming).

I probably won't always be able to use the PAC either but I am happy to support it. Fixed income and all.

Go ahead, have a referendum. The PAC would pass no problem! When they build it they should build it to seat at least 1,000.
Yamadoo and Longneck Contractors (YLC) could bid on the job and probably build it.

Bridge – the referendum was taken almost two decades ago. Where you ten or fifteen year old then?

Andyfreeze – the reason we elect people to council is to make decisions. If we go to referendum on every bloody thing, the snow would melt before we voted on which streets should be plowed first.

BCRacer – if you truly believe what you write, then don`t stand outside, cause the sky is falling.

I loved Don Basserman’s suggestion that the Society should get the support of the City athletic groups, youth, community leaders, ethnic leaders including photo ops as they sign up for their society membership. I would love to see every single councillor as well as the Mayor in such a picture.
Bravo to the good councillor for being the consumate cheerleader for this important endeavor to improve the quality of life for the citizens of Prince George.

Posted by: bohemian on April 2 2008 2:01 PM
Furthermore, Vanier Hall, the "premier" performing arts facility, has no lobby, no box office, no real concession, no alcohol allowed, very poor washroom facilities, no proper fly tower, no proper load-in bay, no proper dressing rooms, no green room, often has to share the building with high-school sports events (basketball/volleyball), is not available in the summer months and is not available to the community if the school decides it isn't (after mid-April next year).

Additionally, any community user of the facility has to temporarily erect those things (box office, concession) and tear them down each time they book the facility, as well as deal with the logistics of a shared facility when sports are happening in the gym. This is a massive drain on staff, volunteer and other resources.

Bohemian sseems to know a lot of the terms and procedures used around A PAC.
This tells me you are involved with the group that is pushing for this PAC to be built. True?

Runner46 writes
"Andyfreeze – the reason we elect people to council is to make decisions. If we go to referendum on every bloody thing, the snow would melt before we voted on which streets should be plowed first."

As it is now, they plow them when they don't need to and don't plow them when they need to. Up where I live anyway.
That says a lot for that doesn't it?
As far as electing people to make decisions, if we don't police these decisions then we get what we deserve don't we?

FIX OUR ROADS FIRST

"Bohemian sseems to know a lot of the terms and procedures used around A PAC"

And how do you know that those terms are used in association with the theatre, lostfaith? For all you know, they could be terms used by in-line skaters.

;-)

Way to go Bohemian!

I don't worry too much about this kind of noise because I'm very sure that the opinion 250 choir (6 guys with opinions on EVERYTHING and nothing better to do with their time) is not representative of the forward thinking people of PG.

I don't use the soccer fields but I'm glad we have them because they're a necessary element of a well-rounded community. So is a first class PAC.

Way to go Bohemian!

I don't worry too much about this kind of noise because I'm very sure that the opinion 250 choir (6 guys with opinions on EVERYTHING and nothing better to do with their time) is not representative of the forward thinking people of PG.

I don't use the soccer fields but I'm glad we have them because they're a necessary element of a well-rounded community. So is a first class PAC.

+1 whelen

Owl, I am an inline skater and have never heard of them.
;~)

Whelen don't you agree that our roads need to be repaired before we start paying for another luxury? Or are you a rich person that isn't affected by how much your taxes are increased everytime we turn around? (for luxuries)
Definition of forward thinking people of PG = Those who have more disposable income than the majority of the people that live in PG.

If your homes were falling down around you would you be shopping for a new boat?

@lostfaith

"Bohemian sseems to know a lot of the terms and procedures used around A PAC. This tells me you are involved with the group that is pushing for this PAC to be built. True?"

I have been bringing these issues up for more that a year on various posts at Opinion250, well before the society was created. Amazingly, the opposition to the PAC still bring up the same old tired arguments. And I try to set them right, and will continue to do so. Anyone who has to present or perform at Vanier Hall could easily outline the issues I have; same with the other facilities.

Hopefully the level of depth and understanding of the opposition will expand and we can get serious about the merits and drawbacks of this facility.