What about the poor suckers with trucks and equipment? They don't qualify for UI or any other benefits. They probably owe the bank more than their stuff is worth right now so they can't even sell it.

Hopefully things turn around sooner rather than later!

Man this is a rough stretch.When it is all over it will be interesting to see if there is anybody around to even work in the mills again.Most will move for employment and a lot won't be returning.I wish everyone involved the very best..

Hmmm, this is turning out to be quite the disaster....

There's other jobs they can do if they're able....join the rcmp. Age is no longer a factor for joining. I'm sure they could use people with more life experience then what they have now in the junior ranks....Forget about the bad press...Think about it: The best job security around, the best medical for you and your family, after 4 yrs you will be making 75 grand a year with regular raises and all the overtime you can handle....If your worried about feeding your family....consider it...they are in the need.

How about Corrections, there is no wait list there either. and there is lots of room for advancement.

By the way, I lost my career after 30 years and was devestated for some time. I had the support of family and no one else. I went back to school on my own hook and changed careers..........lots of fun when you are in your 50`s with lots of experience and no education, but I did it.
I am now 62 and loving life. I can`t begin to imagine how boring life would be if I had have survived the cutbacks.

Never say never.

Lmorg;

Don't forget full pension after 25 years!

That's right, realitysetsin. I got 4 more to go....

Has anyone ever tried to figure out why the armed forces seem to pay considerably less than the RCMP? Or do I have that wrong?

From a production job to a service job ... so, are we ready PG to provide some more service job opportunities? Then again, where is that fine line between production and service these days?

FYI - The Nackawic pulp mill in NB shut down due to poor market prices for the paper grade pulp they were producing. The mill produced 800 tpd. Everyone in the town was out of work after the shutdown. After a year or two of shutdown The Aditya Birla Group bought the mill and has since converted it to produce dissolved grade pulp (600 tpd dissolving grade). This is then used to make textiles in India, Thailand, Indonesia and China. The mill is no longer depends on trade with the US and 250 people are back to work.

Have a look:
http://www.adityabirla.com/our_companies/international_companies/av_nackawic.htm

PS They also use a cogen plant at the mill to generate heat and power for the town

There's almost always a light at the end of the tunnel. For example I saw a few logging trucks converted to tow trucks over the weekend.

Owl, the rcmp are not allowed to unionize but through the work of the staff representatives with Treasury Board they try to keep the RCMP pay comparable to the top three police forces in Canada.

lmorg;

I've actually been thinking about the RCMP.

The first few years would be a killer pay cut though.

I always thought they were union. Interesting.

Cheers;

Runner46 that is excellent!!! Very inspiring.

lmorg you came to the right place to advertise as a lot of people on this site would make excellent officers.

:)

A big rally is planned by the business effected for Saturday at 5th and Carney at noon to protest the city hall attempts to destroy the jobs along River Road and area in an underhanded manor. Everyone effected should try to attend so that a message can be sent that can not be ignored and that enough is enough and that if the city officials can't plan accordingly for the economic needs of this community, then they will need to be removed next November.

Canfor announced yesterday to their employees that this slump in the forest industry will not turn around now until mid 2010. We're in for some really rough times for a few more years yet.

Eagleone

the rally will do no good, since it is not the city that is responsible for planning the economic needs of the city. The idea of a threat or be removed is reactionary at best.

Although there is a very valid argument for what is happening on river road, this will do nothing but feed the press and keep the workers diverted from the bigger issue of who is responsible for the worksite.

5th and Carney encompasses the welfare office, the BX pub, a car lot and a gas station whose company sold petroleum to the Nazis during the Second World War. Where is it? Is it gonna be big enough not to need directions?

HI all:
I have been in Mackenzie since 1974 working at the sawmill. All of the current doom and gloom seems very familiar to me.

It is worse now than it was in the early 80's. Or is it?? Back then we were down to 3 day weeks and job sharing with UIC (Now know as EI or something like that). It was only a year or was it 2, and then we went on strike for 6, or was it 9 months and then there were other shutdowns and cutbacks and layoffs.

I think many of us learned at that point to manage our money and not live a lifestyle outside of our means. A number of people have not yet learned that lesson. Maybe they are too young or too thick headed to know what life is really like. If you have not experienced some hard times, you have not really experienced life yet!

Life in the forest industy has always been a boom and bust cycle. If you are going to be in the industry you will have to get used to it. Life carries on, and the good times are just around the corner!! (Read as - The cheque is in the mail, the sun always shines on TV and I can't post the other comment I am thinking of).

Smile and enjoy the time off as summer will soon be here, and you may even be able to get a tan this year if you are not working. You may have to enjoy life on a budget for awhile, but when things do turn around, you will find you like your time off more that you like being at work.

Being older and hopefuly soon ready to retire to a more enjoyable lifestyle is a great thing. Your turn will come as long as you hang in there!!

Harbinger, I'm not sure. I just heard that was the time and place. A letter went out from an organizer to all the businesses effected asking people to show up to show support. They want the mud road removed and work started on a real berm along the river and don't feel waiting for a study is an option. Most of the people with employment related to the mud road won't have a job by the time the studies are done.

I figure it should involve more people than just the people employed along that stretch of road, because after all we all pay property taxes that fund this madness in emergency planning, and when we lose as many as a 1000 high paying jobs we will all see our real estate equity diminished as a result. So its not an issue that is just limited to those employed along River Road. For some it might be the dust the mud road creates, for others it might be the complete closure of Cameron Street Bridge for 3+years (political and needlessly for most vehicles), for others maybe its the concern of a permanent berm to protect downtown being held up by bureaucracy, for others they want to know what the city plans to do to protect the park, and others might just want a place to vent about all the industrial traffic using 5th and Carney as the only route connecting East of town with the North of town.

All would be legitimate issues to make some noise IMO. Time will tell I guess....

What's that saying "Wish in one hand and cripe in the other....see which one fills up first!"

This is all but planned between canfor fraser and the Canadian gov.

They even say it in interviews (both) "we intend to be the last man standing..." we hear this over and over again, regardless of what it means to the rest of hte lumber industry on either side of the border...int he end they will charge huge premiums because they will be the only ones left.

Good biz model? all of you without jobs have to decide if that is the Canada you want to live in!

bruceb, there is considerable truth in what you're saying as it applies, or can be applied, individually. Many people DO get in an unfortunate habit of "living beyond their means", and spending paycheques before they're earned. And then some. To a large extent, THEY are often the architects of their own misfortune when hard times hit.

But there's a little more to it than that now, too, I think. Many, perhaps the overwhelming majority, of forest workers and other working people are virtually FORCED into debt these days by the demands of 'Society'. (Or the most vocal part of it anyways.)

The latest example of which, though miniscule by others, is the upcoming 'carbon tax'. To supposedly help 'save' the Earth. It's another hit on incomes that are already deficient, even for the most financially prudent, to keep pace with the increase in prices.

It's not hard to pin-point some of the others that aren't so miniscule. Your home for instance.

It has to be constructed to a certain minimum size and ever more restrictive, and costly, building 'standards'. It might be built framed out of bug-killed pine studs, overclad with formaldehyde emitting OSB, and sided with vinyl made from a non-renewable resource, all to keep the 'costs down'.

But it will have to have an insulated concrete foundation, thermo-pane windows, ground fault electrical outlets, be insulated to the nth degree, vapour barriered, have a septic system that's pressurized, a non-polluting heat source, and on, and on, and on, which will drive the 'cost' literally through the roof.

And you can't, in many places, build it yourself anymore. Frame it and move in, and 'pay as you go' in finsishing it. Oh, no! You've got to have an 'Occupancy Permit', not granted until it's all finished. Putting many, who need an abode as a basic human necessity, into hock right from the start of their working lives.

Now all these new regulations that "Society" demands are well-intentioned, wonderful things. For your benefit, and that of "Society", too. Only the COST of them is ALL yours! It is YOU who has to take out a larger mortgage with payments that are still 'time-based', not subject to whether YOU are receiving a paycheque to make them with or not.

And a home is just ONE example. As just a lengthly list could be compiled on the requirements demanded in regards to your car or pickup needed to get to your job. Or look for another one.

And in other areas, too. "Society" demands, but when it comes to the 'money' to meet the cost of those demands, or maintain the payments to just stand still until things get better, where is "Society" then?

bruceb

Good attitude. I like how you learned from the past too!

My only concern is that say this supply / demand problem corrects in the next year or two.

Now we have MPB wood that is further decayed, mills producing even lower quality wood.

Annual Allowable Cut reductions....

I'm not saying the sky is falling. I am just not sure the correction will bring it anywhere near where it was.

If I was say 50+ I think I would stick it out. If I was younger I think I would look for something more sustainable... but that's just my two bits.

"It has to be constructed to a certain minimum size and ever more restrictive, and costly, building 'standards'."

Sorry ... not true!!!!!!! In fact, as far as I can recall this city has no minimum size in its zoning bylaws. Many cities do, but even there they are specific to certain parts of the city.

If you wish, you can build a single bedroom home or even a bachelor suite home. Just that people these days are doing exactly the opposite and there is not even a call for more affordable housing.

Just look at the Bliss proposal for 7th that just went up in smoke. Floor areas that were unheard of her for apartmetns some 10 years ago and then with expensive "stuff" much of it in the "kitsch" category for the neauveau riche.

Building codes in BC for single family homes have not substantially changed since we got a provincial one in the early 1970's.

The blame rests on the economy and the inflationary expectation of people.

If we din't have building codes parts of this town would resemble a Bombay slum. Or maybe a Pakistani suburb after an earthquake. I like high standards, But then again, I can afford it. (With help from my bank for thirty or more years.)

"If I was say 50+ I think I would stick it out. If I was younger I think I would look for something more sustainable"

Agree. If I were entering the workforce now, I wouldn't go anywhere near a forestry related operation.

Regarding homes, when was the last time anyone saw a new housing development in PG made up of homes with a total square footage of say 1,800 - 2,100 square feet combined (all floors and basement)? Take a look at mls.ca for various other cities across Canada. Why can they seem to build these houses and in PG it's a foreign concept?

"I like high standards, But then again, I can afford it. (With help from my bank for thirty or more years.)"

Well, lets hope "your bank" is there for you when you stop making the payments because you've got nothing coming in from which to make them.

Of course it 'may' be. If there's massive 'enough' lay-offs, and the collateral value of their security collectively, all the homes they hold mortgages on, begins to decline en masse to the point where foreclosure and resale isn't exactly a viable option.

And lets hope they'll be just as understanding when your new, heavily mortgaged abode's "New Home Warranty" period has expired, you've still got twenty or more years left on the mortgage, and you find that some of the materials from which Harbinger Hall was constructed, "to those high standards", aren't quite as long lasting as the amortization period. And you're faced with some serious re-construction to keep the manor livable.

All right! so I, a middle aged guy with a beat up body and a bad attitude can have a new career with the fuzz, and full pension after twenty five...wait, I would be a wrinkled geezer (ok, more wrinkled) writing traffic violation revenue tickets long before I could pension out. Still, sounds interesting.
metalman.