How much would you bet this scum didn't have to wait in any lineups at the hospital like us regular folk would have, and do on a daily basis here in Canada.

Sad, but probably very true and I'll leave it at that!

I would not bet a single $ since I would loose.

This is emergency care, and whenever I have had to go to emergency, I have received an emergency bed. I think most others would have had the same experience.

However, it did give you an opportunity to make your opinions known about the individual one more time.

;-)

So we now have two people posting who do not know how the emergency part of the healthcare system works.

I doubt the RCMP want someone dying on them in their cell, no matter who that individual is. The have enough trouble as it is.

OK Mr expert owl, you are telling us when ever you walked into a hospital you were ushered off to a bed upon your arrival.
Poppycock.
You don't think we could possibly believe that line, do you?
The emergency part of the health care system works as well as the rest of the healthcare system, not very well.
Yes this is a good forum for being able to voice ones opinion, whether it be regarding the good things in life or the bad.
Wait a minute, your a liberal aren't you, a bleeding heart liberal?
You have to be because only VIP get priority treatment in our healthcare system unless you are in imminent danger of death.

Should let this @#$@$@# guy die in the cell. He took the lives of three children, he deserves to die. By the way, DOGWOOD can kiss his but of his comment towards me on the other article about Schoenborn.

How do you know the guy is guilty? It is not possible the guy is in shock from the death of his kids. There were questions raised about someone else there. I heard it in one of the first reports by Global TV. There a questions about the timeline. The facts don't necessarily support his guilt. He defended his daughter. He is a suspect yes. Something doesn't fit this. Too many questions for me to agree the man is in fact guilty.

Please forgive OWL, for he suffers also from dillusion. Obviously oblivious to the state of our healthcare system in general. I'm pretty certain my father would still be alive if those comments were in any manner substantiated as gospel. The RCMP certainly would prefer a little Taser honing skills first. On another note, sadly, nobody has been found guilty yet. That being said, nobody has yet to be ruled out as being a suspect. Let us wait while the tabloid media comes to a sensible conclusion.

Can we change our focus to the poor mother? Can we offer her support? How does she live day to day knowing that she can't go home to her babies and that her husband is an acussed murderer. Now that Shoenborn is in custoday can we let the RCMP do their job. I don't care if it is my taxpayer money that has to put that freak away. The mother deserves to know that yes, the system failed her and her children, but now she has the support of the province to lock him up and that he will NEVER hurt her again.

So what those other healthcare experts are telling me on here is that if one comes into the emergency clinic at PGRH, and has been in a car accident with undetermined injuries, that individual is not looked after on a priority basis. Have I got that
right?

Or that someone who has a broken leg has to wait 3 months for an operating room to be freed up instead of getting the leg set that day or the next, Right?

Perhaos when someone comes in with with what might be diabetic shock they are asked to take a seat and are left sitting there for 6 hours before they are ushered in so that they can be looked after. Have I got it right now?

If that is the case, then maybe you have come in a few times too often with stomach cramps that have turned out to be nothing other than stomach cramps.

There may be lots of things wrong with our medical system, but I believe emergency care and triage is not one of them.

Then, of course, there is that very foreign notion that tinyapplecork brings up .... innocent until proven guilty.

I know, it is a crazy notion in today's age. I just don't know what has gotten into the wild west mentality of North America over the last 200 years.

Shoot 'em all down. The Almighty will take care of any mistakes we may have made here and give those who were actually innocent a special seat or two in heaven.

I am with owl on this one. WHile there are in all likelihood exceptions, the emergency staff try to ensure that all SERIOUS cases are handled immediately. I have been in emerge a few times. Sometimes i waited, sometimes i got immediate care. All mistakes aside (as they are inevitable) the system is the same for everyone.
Also, I am tired of saying it but i am not giving up yet: (Like Owl said) Innocent until proven guilty. None of the posters in this forum knows what happened. Lets find out first before we let dogs rip the guy up before we shoot him and hang his dead body ok?

Or how about my buddy that had breathing difficulties and sat in PG emerg waiting for 4 hrs.
If you sat and did some research you will find dozens upon dozens of these type of incidents that have happened in our Canadian hospitals. Including preventable deaths. That's a fact Owl

I have limited experience at the PGRH emergency walk-in. I sat for hours with kidney stones and just watched. The "natives" seemed to get quicker service, probably because they looked worse off, or maybe they were "known" to the ER staff.

I couldn't hold it anymore and needed to puke, so I just walked past the nurse and filled their stainless wash sink. After that I was given a little plastic tub to bob my head in at my seat while I waited some more. I didn't care much what happened after awhile, but it was sad watching now long some people had to suffer.

This entire story has been odd, right from the beginning. Very little has been said about the mother. I find that very odd.

I personally feel no sympathy towards either at this point. I do feel for the children though. It had to be a horrific ending.

Something of interest. Most parents that kill thier kids have a few things in common.
Woman-society treats them as being sick mentally-most live out thier days in a hospital. Very few woman are convicted and spend time in prison. Woman usually kill thier kids at thier home (to show closenss to themselves), wrap them up in a womb like position (blankets .etc.). Woman that have been found to kill thier own children, are suffering post-natal, or are suffering from abuse, and are mentally unstable-society cannot or probably never will except the fact there are bad woman, just sick woman. They usually will kill thier kids out of sympathy for thier own abuse suffered in thier lives.

Men-usually commit suicide, after killing thier kids. Most are put in jail-or face exacuation. Men will usually only kill thier own children if there is a breakdown in the relationship. The fathers only way to get back at the mother. Taking away the things that are most precious. Or they are mentally suffering from illness.

I am very curious about how this ends up. Was it her?, was it him?, if either...

I dont think you will see jail time for either. If so.

"If you sat and did some research you will find dozens upon dozens of these type of incidents that have happened in our Canadian hospitals."

I would think more than just dozens. The actual number depends how one wants to define them.

Once we get finished with Canada, we can then move down and have a look at the system in the USA, and in Europe.

Read the link and maybe be a bit surprised for some of you. There are horror stories in each country. The question is, the same as the question of who killed the kids, how do you determine what is really the case?

http://www.openmedicine.ca/article/view/8/1

For those who don't like to read detailed stuff but prefer to make decisions only on your biased life experiences, just a teaser.
-----------------------
1. Of 10 studies that included extensive statistical adjustment and enrolled broad populations, 5 favoured Canada, 2 favoured the United States, and 3 showed equivalent or mixed results..

2. Of 28 studies that failed one of these criteria, 9 favoured Canada, 3 favoured the United States, and 16 showed equivalent or mixed results.

3. Overall, results for mortality favoured Canada

4. The only condition in which results consistently favoured one country was end-stage renal disease, in which Canadian patients fared better.

5. conclusion - Available studies suggest that health outcomes may be superior in patients cared for in Canada versus the United States, but differences are not consistent.

Finally .. here is the financial overview ....

The United States also spends far more on health care, i.e., approximately 15% of its gross domestic product versus about 10% in Canada. In 2003, Americans spent an estimated US$5,635 per capita on health care, while Canadians spent US$3,003.

There are horror stories everywhere. There are wonderful stories of almost miraculous recovery everywhre ....

But this is a pretty negative and typically quite subjective site, so why would I expect anything different than horror stories on here.

YDPC .... I had kidney stones twice .... I pucked out the door of the car driving to the hospital, so I got attended to a bit faster than you did.

Pain management is the concern with kidney stones. Typically not a life threatening situation. They too shall pass.

;-)

Just a comment, not disagreeing, to what justamom said:
"Men-usually commit suicide, after killing thier kids. Most are put in jail-or face exacuation. Men will usually only kill thier own children if there is a breakdown in the relationship. The fathers only way to get back at the mother. Taking away the things that are most precious. Or they are mentally suffering from illness."

That sounds like mental illness to me.

What about the judgement of the mother when it came time to hook up with this loser? Should be a warning to other women when it comes to choosing some one to share yer life and those of yer kids. Up yer standards women. You really should. Choosy mothers choose Jif. (peanut butter)

I read an article from the U.S, these are just some facts of parents who choose to end thier own childs lives and what most had in common. I thought it was interesting that when a woman killed her kids..society sees them as being 'sick',mentally.. not bad.
Where as men are just plain bad, and rarely sick mentally. I think you would have to be 'insane' without a doubt regardless of whether you were the mother or the father.
I should have copied and pasted the article but cant find it again.

They said suffering mentally from illness, as in brain tumor, etc.

It was interesting.

I think both were on heroin or crack or some other combination of hard drug and things went out of control at some point. The father headed for the hills with no other place to go, and the mother tried to cover it up by blaming the father. IMO both are probably equally at fault otherwise charges would have been laid on the father by now.

Mother said she was only gone 10 minutes by media reports. Father killed three kids probably after catching them assuming the mother didn't leave with them tied up or something. So father does the horrible crime with no neighbors hearing a thing in the middle of the day, and then the father leaves in broad daylight and escapes to the hills. Mother gets home after ten minutes to store in small town. IMO the time line does not fit for the story....

If I am correct the mother is not mad, but rather bad and likely a hard core drug user.

Hypothetically if the crime was done before the mother went to the store and she went to the store as part of her alibi and did this acting normal as part of the plan to frame the father... then that is even more cold blooded and deliberate than the original crime (possibly done while on drugs) in its clear headed attempt as would be required to shop in a store looking normal knowing what is in your home. That is not mental illness, but rather manipulative deliberate abuse of our sympathy for the horror of the crime.

Both parents are in separate hospitals and I am sure they are giving separate accounts of what they say happened.....

The mother probably pinned her hopes on the father being shot on sight if she at all shares any guilt in this matter.

justamom ...

this might the the article...

http://www.slate.com/id/2063086

Here is how it starts off...

"Women do not, by and large, make terrific criminals. In the United States, women commit only two crimes as frequently as men. The first is shoplifting. The second is the murder of their own children"

So, if there is no clear and immediate evidence in this case who could have done it and who appears to have done it, the probability of it it being the mother or father seems to be 50/50 ..

An interesting comment from that article:

"Doug Saunders observed recently in the Toronto newspaper the Globe and Mail that the media is complicit in treating maternal killers as newsworthy and paternal killers as ordinary criminals"

I am just amazed at how many assumptions are made based on absolutely nothing. From drug use to mother hoping father would get shot, to both conspiring, to mom's story of going to the store just a cover, to what the situation was when the mother met him... He may have been prince charming for crying out loud... we just don't know this, do we?

The only facts at hand are that the children are dead. There have been no specifics and nothing concrete as far as information. There are theory's, and different reports - but nothing has been confirmed as being true.

This man went to the hospital, and yes, quite probably received prompt medical attention. The man was living in the woods for two weeks and we have no idea what sort of condition he was in. Would you prefer he sat in the waiting room with the general public for hours on end? I guarantee you there would be an uproar about putting other people in danger if that was the case.

I think this is a sick, sick situation - but I don't see how I can pass judgment or form an opinion without facts. To do so is a prime example of how rumours are started.

As far as emergency room waits - patients are triaged and although, rightfully, your pain and suffering is foremost in YOUR mind, there are others there that are potentially dying and quite frankly, I trust the triage team to be able to distinguish the difference better than I.
My god, you are talking about kidney stones - painful, yes, but seriously... I dont' think it trumps the senior who had an MI, or the child with a head injury, or the broken ankle awaiting an orthopaedic consult or the appendicitis case waiting for surgery, or maybe the 14 year old girl who was slipped a date rape drug. Do you people have any clue what these doctors and nurses see in there every single day?

Judging by the quality of comments on this item, including mine, I can see why the Globe & Mail doesn't open their comment section about this news item on their website.