In Search of a Prince George Ring Road

Monday, October 24, 2005 03:30 AM

-by Myron Gordon

Recently we have heard about the need to upgrade, or increase, our transportation systems throughout the Prince George Region. This is due to a number of factors, including the large increase in logging trucks carrying the pine beetle lift, the new container port in Prince Rupert, and the oil pipeline being planned to go across the center of the province on its way to Kitimat.
At present, heavy transport traffic heading along the East-West corridor must to go through downtown, either using Victoria St. or Queensway Ave. This is not exactly the most efficient, or effective, route for moving goods. Not only does this route have a number of tight and unsafe turns, but also requires trucks to waste time idling at red lights and stop signs. Not to mention the inconveniences of having to traverse the downtown area.

Speaking of downtown, most people in Prince George do not realize that the designated dangerous goods route for traffic heading east or west is along Highway 16, better known as Victoria Street. One of the objectives of a dangerous goods route is to keep this type of traffic out of residential areas. Of course, the object is to not put businesses, which we depend on, at risk. This is certainly what the current dangerous goods route does. A ring road system will minimize the likelihood of an incident happening to both residents and businesses alike.

One of the significant advantages of ring roads is the creation of greater efficiencies in the economy by allowing through traffic to bypass the city. Claims that Prince George will lose business are not substantiated. People will be more likely to come downtown and businesses more likely to locate there if they are not being bothered by the big trucks and dangerous goods traffic. A great example which is in close proximity to Prince George is the comparison of traveling through Quesnel as opposed to Williams Lake. I’ll pick Williams Lake any day over Quesnel to start a business.

New business opportunities will be opened up on bypass routes. The Highway 97 bypass in Prince George (Central Street) is an example of the businesses which propagate to a ring road-bypass system. Other examples are such as the Freeway which runs on the north side of Edmonton or the Highway 1 bypass which runs through the south side of Kamloops. Both ends of the City of Kamloops have now developed new businesses as well as the subsequent tax base accompanying them.

Another benefit of a ring road system in Prince George is the assistance it will bring to the development of an Inland port, not to mention the potential for cargo operations at the Airport. Businesses naturally seek out locations that provide quick, safe and efficient transportation routes.

Finally, a few words for those elected City officials and city staff who don’t believe a ring road system is needed: Don’t worry about that small detail. A ring road system will reduce road maintenance costs within the City, as the bypass route is usually built and maintained by the Province, possibly with the assistance of the Federal Government. Who knows, maybe we can use the lack of city planning regarding the Cameron Street bridge and turn it into a good news story for Prince George.

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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 03:30 AM in Money by Elaine Macdonald

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Comments

Posted by: Marty on October 24 2005 4:01 AM

Or simply do as i did when i used to haul.
Take the old caribou hwy past the airport that so very conveniently connects hwy 16 east to 97 south, not too far from the major intersection heading west.
Its a lot easier and better than going through downtown.

Did youy forget that hwy exists ????

Posted by: Opatcho on October 24 2005 10:05 AM

You got it right marty. The Yellowhead bridge never should have been built. Instead the Fraser bridge should of been paralleled. We could forget about the Cameron bridge.
I dont agree with the statement that there is a lack of planning regarding the Cameron street bridge. The City has a complete set of drawings and stats of traffic flow on the bridge. Check it out. You can down load the entire report from the City website.
Howevere there appears to be a complete lack of planning of traffic flow as to how and where it should take place. With the Hart bridge improvements the Bypass should handle the traffic through the City for some time to come. We just have to get out of the small town box thinking and accept the fact that that it takes more then a couple of minutes to get from my house to where I work.
As marty says the old Caribou highway connects to #97 south an d its no trick to use the Fraser bridge to connect with #16 west or #97 north. Instead of playinf around with the Cameron street bridge get after the Province too improve the Fraser bridge. Another improvement would be to get rid of some of the traffic signals on the Bypass. There is a complete interchange at Massey and the Bypass. With minor changes to off and on ramps this would do the job.
We are talking about moving traffic not how will my business survive because the traffic flow does not enhance it.
There is another alternative for trucking and that is the railroad. Why do we have all the heavy trucks with a major rialroad distribution system going through the City. The polution factor alone will one day have to be considered as well as the wear and tare on our highways.
Lets get out of the box and consider the whole picture not just what is best for me.

Posted by: brackencole on October 24 2005 12:39 PM

"New business opportunities will be opened up on bypass routes. The Highway 97 bypass in Prince George (Central Street) is an example of the businesses which propagate to a ring road-bypass system."

Studies show that highways don't create new economic activity, it just leads to the redistribution of that which already exists. So what a ring-road will likely do is lead to the construction of more strip malls along the proposed ring route- which will likely undermine efforts to bring economic activity where we need it- the downtown. Walmart and Canadian Tire are an excellent example of that.

Posted by: Chadermando on October 24 2005 5:25 PM

I see defeatism is alive and well in Prince George.

If you don't have the sunk cost of infrastructure in place then you do not have the advantages of a low cost to growth for the community to build on.

If we want to be a city of 60,000 then we build out our infrastructure for a city of 60,000. If we feel we need to be a city of 150,000 to have the kind of city we want to live in, then we need to build our infrastructure to handle an economy of that size.

Once the sunk cost is in place that ability to attrack new business costs nothing. Look no further then Kamloops as a prime example or the ready made industrial zones and parks in the states that say they are open for business, and that is were new business looks to locate.

An industrial dangerous goods ring is essential to any further growth in PG. I worked for a major distribution company in PG for 6 years, and the potential for growth is huge, but the infrastructure is not there to make the investments viable.

I have also hauled dangerous goods through PG for the pulp mill and I can tell you it is not safe at all. Consider that most chemical trucks around PG don't even have baffles in them to control the sloshing around and its a disaster waiting to happen. Not only that but it takes over an hour to commute through PG along the by-pass in a large truck due to all the traffic and traffic lights as the trucks are all funneled into the high density ares in the city.

I think a logical start would be the new Nechako crossing facilitating the traffic from the North, East, and South of town. Next on the list should be a new Fraser crossing from the BCR Site to the back side of College Heights. This would put PG in business for a container port, both by rail and air. From this small start growth could be facilitated that would eventually require a complete ring. In the meantime those two routes are critical to PG's growth in the transportation sector.

Currently all the private transportation dollars are being invested to make Kamloops the inland port of BC by companies like Arrow, that specifically bi-passed PG because they have no confidence in our transportation infrastructure.

Moving the scales 25 km out of town is another huge priority that needs to be addressed. The current system is so inefficient that it no longer even works. Most trucks just go around the scales on alternate routes if they have any reason to avoid the scales or don't have the time for the gong show that is our scale locations. I'd like to see the stats on how many dollars ICBC pays out because of accidents as a result of the tie ups caused by the BCR scales.

Posted by: Palopu on October 24 2005 8:46 PM

Hear we go again with the forecasts of how the Citys population could increase to 150,000 people if the infrastructure was in place. In the late 1960's and early 1970's the City projected a population for Prince George of 200,000 people and started to build the infrastructure accordingly, however as you are aware we never made it to 80,000. Foothills Blvd dies at the intersection of the Chief Lake Road. and is a road to nowhere when it gets to the turnoff to UNBC. Ospika Blvd dies where it intersects with the road from UNBC.

Anyone who thinks that a container facility in Prince Rupert will have an economic effect on Prince George is just kidding themselves. Containers from Japan, South East Asia, Taiwan, China, contain merchandise for Major Cities in Eastern Canada, and the USA and Europe. A large number of these containers go across Canada and load out on ships in Montreal and Halifax to Europe. This is often referred to as the Canadian *Land Bridge* When these containers arrive in a Port,they are loaded on trains and move across the country. A very small portion if any would be loaded for the Prince George area. Prince Ruperts Major competitors for this traffic are Vancouver,B.C. Washington and California Ports. Vancouver has already gone on record as opposing any major Container Port in Prince Rupert that would pull traffic away from them. In any event Prince George will get very little spin off from this project. We might be able to load some empty containers in the Prince George area to go back to Prince Rupert for export, however these loads presently move to Vancouver by empty grocery trucks and flat decks,ie; pulp, paper, and lumber, and are loaded in containers in Vancouver. If the loads went to Prince Rupert the Prince George to Vancouver loads would dry up. This means that Grocery trucks returning to Vancouver would have no back hauls and trucking companys would have to increase their inbound rates by a minimum of $600.00 per truck to cover their costs. Over 90% of merchandise and groceries from Hope to Prince Rupert,is shipped in from Vancouver and Edmonton by trucks. Without back hauls to Vancouver the prices for all commoditys into the Northern Interior will be increased substantially. Be careful for what you wish for as you just might get it, and it could be very costly to this city. If inbound transportation cost skyrocket it will have a detrimental effect on any business locating here. A thorough study of a container distribution terminal in Prince George should include this detrimental effect.

Posted by: Palopu on October 24 2005 8:53 PM

Footnote; The Citys forecastwas that the Citys Population would reach 200,000 by the year 2000. This was made around 1970. Prince George is Celebrating its 90th birtday. Assuming our present population is 80,000 this give us and average increase in population of less that 1000 people per year.

Posted by: Opatcho on October 25 2005 9:39 AM

It is unbeleivable that the tax payers of this City need to provide for the dreamers that we need an infastructure to provide for future buisness oppertunities.
Look at Calgary and Edmonton they have ring roads an as one person has pointed out all you get is more strip malls to try and sell their junk.
We arent interested in traffic movement. I think infastructure has more to do with realestate development. The new car dealership going unto the former driving range at Pine Valley golf is a fine examnple. An off ramp is being built to accommadte entry to the car lot from a very busy street that is highway #16 west. We are destroying the efficient use of the infastructure we have.
Time will tell.

Posted by: Chadermando on October 25 2005 1:35 PM

Anyone that thinks a container port in Prince George will shrink the shipping oportunities in this city does not understand transportation logistics. The more shipping through PG to the North, West and East, means more oportunities for growth in all sectors. Maybe Edmonton will get their grocieries from PG via Prince Rupert rather than Vancouver, and this in turn will facilitate more East-West trade?

The arguement that funneling all traffic into an ever congested funnel is not a recipe for success....

Come on now. Take one look at Peden Hill and tell me this can handle any more traffic then it has now especially in winter when its glazed up. How does a congested Peden Hill benefit anyone?

Anyone that has driven a transport truck through the city of PG will tell you that what should take 20 minutes often takes an hour and a half. This is purely a result of funneling traffic and congesting it with more lights like the new one on the Hart.

I challange anyone to name one city that is successfull by creating congestion funneling its transportation network through its residential and downtown areas. IMO the funneling effect has killed the downtown with needless congestion.

The argument that a better transportation infrastructure will create urban sprawl is not realistic because East of the rivers in PG the infrastructure for utilities is not in place and the people do not live in that end of town. If this is a concern simply put a 20 year moratorium on retail development within a radius of the ring.

Currently we strangle any attempts to grow the PG economy by insisting on downtown development at the expense of developing a supporting economy. That is the defeatist legacy of Prince George.

A ring road would be paid for and maintained by the federal and provincial government and not the tax payers of PG. PG has paid more then enough for this through resource royalties and taxes to get a return on our investment. To argue against this clearly is done out of selfish interests by the downtown hostage crowd.

Posted by: Chadermando on October 25 2005 1:35 PM

Posted by: Palopu on October 25 2005 7:14 PM

Time to wake up. When I say groceries I mean all food that we get from our grocery stores etc. Potatoes come from Washington,Oregon, Idaho, Alberta.
Fresh fruit and vegtables from California,Arizona,Mexico
Canned goods from the USA and Eastern Canada. There is very little or no groceries that would come through Prince Rupert. Years ago before all this merchandise went to trucks some grocerys and general merchandies was barged from Vancouver to Prince Rupert, Kitimat, and Trucked to Terrace, this was to compete with the Rail service into these areas. To-day there is no rail service for general merchandise, nor is there any more barge service out of Vancouver. Refrigerated trucks handle all this business,which includes all meat products, and if they dont have back hauls your cost of inbound commodities will rise. Its that simple. There are probably 150 to 200 trucks that come to or go through Prince George every week to supply the Central Interior.

A container loading terminal in Prince Rupert will be good for Prince Rupert and Good for the Railway, however it will do very little for the Prince George area.

As far as a ring road goes, this is another pipe dream. The city is already ***Ringed*** by Hway 16 East to 97 South to 16 West. 16 East to 1st to Camerson st bridge to the Hart Hiway and the Pulp Mills. Hart Hiway through the Bypass (Central Street) to 16 West, 97 South BC Rail Industrial Park etc
Some work would have to be done to improve this Ring, however it already exists, and therefore it would be foolish to duplicate it.

During peak traffic times you can drive from River Road to the turn off at Haldi road without exceeding the speed limits in 25 minutes or less. I find it hard to beleive that it would take a truck over an hour to do the same thing.

Most of the Dangerous Goods handled in Prince George that would be a threat would be Gas and Diesel trucks that service the service stations through out the City. These service stations are all over the place and the tankers have to go through the City to service them. That will not change by building a **Ring** road.

The Chamber of Commerce, and UNBC can do all the studies they want on this issue but at the end of the day very little if anything will change.

If you want to talk Dangerous Goods take a look at whats handled through and around Prince George by train. That should get your attention. Are we going to build a **Ring Railway**

Posted by: owl on October 26 2005 2:53 AM

Palopu ... BINGO!

You got it bang on with the dangerous goods situation.

If anyone read the two scenarios in the paper of the UNBC studies, you would note they were both fuel trucks at service stations.

The senario I want to see is a chlorine tank in the CN yard in the middle of the winter with an inversion .... past spills of such tanks have had people evacuated for several days .....

In the middle of such -20C winter days those in the bowl would likely have to be evacuated to where????? lots of friendly people on the surrounding hills? And those in the hospital, to where?

Ring roads are not going to change that scenario one iota.

As far as "ring" roads or bypasses go, any growing city will eventually incorporate a bypass into its internal city street system. Central is no exception.

If the City expands considerably, new bypasses will be constructed as pressure damands.

Peden hill certainly should be replaced. It is a disgrace that no one is doing anything about that. That, rather than Cameron street Bridge should be an issue.

Posted by: Opatcho on October 26 2005 9:51 AM

The City of Kelowna has six lanes of traffic going smack bang through the City and thats dangerous goods and all. And talk about funnels the six lanes feed onto a three lane bridge.
The downtown are has not been destroyed by funneling. Poor planning on the part of the City has. It started many years ago with Spruceland and then came Parkwood Mall and on and on.
To this day I still go down town to shop To me the small proprieter owned business is the back bone of our society. And I support them.
Time will tell.