WOW…those steelworker union reps sure must have a lot of time on their hands? Imagine worrying about how safe a chinese owned company will be when operating in Canada, before they even break ground.

BC has OHS regulations in place to protect union and non unionized workers. So why is this Hunt fellow blowing smoke?

Guest workers??? That should be good for employment in BC.
Blowing smoke! I think not.
So who is going to enforce these regs?-The company??? The government cannot even protect kids from asbestos in this province.

it sounds to me that the steelworkers are looking to get the mine workers to join their union.
it would be nice if the steelworkers would settle some of the contract negotiations they already have going on with mines in north eastern BC. lets protect the Canadian workers already paying dues then go after the rest.
have a great day

The “guest workers” might be paid 20 times what they’d earn in China, but that’s just the first step to beating wages down here.

It’s one of the coming pleasantries of ‘globalisation’ our politicians aren’t telling us about ~ that if ‘capital’ is mobile and not subject to any national boundaries, it only follows that ‘labour’ will soon be, too. And to compete everyone still working will be put in a race to the bottom to see who’ll do the most for the least.

It would be wonderful if such a policy could solve the world’s problems, but it can’t. Already the rate at which consumer PRICES are generated in the economy ~ any economy, even a ‘world’ one ~ exceeds the rate at which INCOMES are generated.

We cannot ‘buy back’ the total of what we’ve produced over ANY length period of time from the total of wages, salaries, and dividends generated in one and the SAME period of time. And if we can’t do that in THIS period of time, how then are we going to do it in the NEXT one, or the NEXT one again, when there’s a continuing cumulative carry over of the deficiency?

No matter what length accounting or fiscal cycle is taken, there is a gap between collective Prices and collective Incomes. And it is an ever widening gap.

Currently, we try to bridge it two ways. First, by running a so-called ‘favourable’ balance of trade internationally, where we export more in a dollar value of goods than we import, and receive international credit for the difference, (which is converted into Canadian currency by the Bank of Canada for use here ~ not spent on purchasing foreign goods).

If anyone cares to consider this, it should be readily apparent that if you are continually exporting more than you are importing, your country is actually becoming physically poorer, not richer ~ no matter that the ‘figures’ used by Finance show the exact opposite.

And second, by ever increasing overall indebtedness, both public and private, in Canada itself. It will be impossible to ever repay this indebtedness in its totality so long as total Prices continue to outpace total Incomes. It’s continued servicing alone will progressively suck the life-blood out of our economy, and ultimately all of us.

Our resources, should be our jobs.

Guest workers from the Maritimes are common for mining …. ;-)

BTW, put in the words “Canadian mines in Latin America” or something to that affect and those of you who think that Canadian mining companies are so great compared to Chinese, you might have your eyes opened a bit. No, we do not have the rate of worker accidents, but we do tend to make the lives of the people around the mines somewhat unbearable, especially in places where the government is repressive and helps by going in and massacring villagers.

Most of the “violations” deal with environmental and human rights abuses. The working conditions are not at the forefront in most situations brought to the courts where possible to do so.

This proposed act was voted down in Parliament last year.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Docid=3658424&file=4

Bill C-300 An Act respecting Corporate Accountability for the Activities of Mining, Oil or Gas in Developing Countries

PURPOSE – The purpose of this Act is to ensure that corporations engaged in mining, oil or gas activities and RECEIVING SUPPORT FROM THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA ACT IN A MANNER CONSISTENT WITH INTERNATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL BEST PRACTICES AND WITH CANADA’S COMMITMENTS TO INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS STANDARDS.

In other words, if a company is subsidized by the Feds, and they are seen as Canadians operating in a country, the expectation is that they act in a fashion expected of Canadians in this world. Of course, the Harper government does not give a chit about such things, does he? We can say all we want about civil rights abuses of other countries, but our own countrymen in foreign lands ….. we really do not care, do we?

http://www.miningwatch.ca/article/argentine-prosecutor-gustavo-g-mez-prosecution-environmental-crimes

That is an example from Argentina.

These are interesting words in my mind:
“It is important to understand that – unlike the Canadian common law system in which the Department of Justice is under the executive branch of government – in Argentina, there are four branches of government: executive, legislative, the “public ministry” (administrative) and the judiciary, in which the latter is independent from the other branches. This means – at least in theory – that public prosecutors in that country have greater independence than in nations that adhere to common law.”

and

“Mr. Gómez describes what he calls the cycle of corruption (círculo cerrado): companies are allowed to operate without adequate regard for the environment and subsequently use their enormous profits to ensure ever-increasing impunity. Mr. Gómez firmly believes that his office is best employed in prosecuting company directors as the intellectual authors of environmental crimes – feasible under Argentinean law, but difficult to do even under relatively progressive governments.”

Argentina is not BC, we have laws in place to protect our environment. You dont think the BC Liberals would let mining companies harm our environme t do you??

Thank you Opinion 250, for making sure that stuff like this is not being swept under the rug.

The Chinese business people coming from China, may be thinking that with money being flung around they can buy what ever they want. We are not always about the money.

Canadian mining companies abroad that receive support from the Federal government do so because this country believes it must import some other country’s ‘money’ in order to live.

So long as this conception is believed to be a necessity to OUR economy it won’t matter one whit whether any Canadian mining company abides by Canadian environmental or social standards in its operations abroad or not. The quest for those believed-to-be-necessary international credits will trump any restrictions our Parliamentarians could enact.

hadenuf – look closer to home. There is still a contract with a major trucking firm in this city that has been without a contract for almost 2 years of which their employees belong to the Steel Workers Union.

“Argentina is not BC, we have laws in place to protect our environment.”

LOL ….. so this is the reason that Canadian companies operate in other countries which may not have such laws? It seems that Canadian mining companies operate far more in other countries than non-Canadian companies.

We have tons of laws. We have lots of people and companies who flaunt those laws just as is done in the rest of the world.

Did you realize that the only reason one needs laws is because otherwise many more people and organizations would act in ways which would be detrimental to other individuals and groups?

Laws are only created when people are not concerned about others. If people would not steal, laws against stealing other people’s property would not be required. If people still steal despite the laws, then the laws have to be enforced on top of that.

http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/ds/csr-strategy-rse-stategie.aspx?view=d

Some people may not realize that Canada is one of the biggest players in the world with respect to minining.

From the above:

“Canada has also become a major player in the international extractive sector. At about $79.3 billion in 2007, mining and energy investment is the third-largest component of Canadian direct investment abroad (stocks), generating significant additional exports from Canada.”

“Canadian financial markets in Toronto and Vancouver are the world’s largest source of equity capital for mining companies undertaking exploration and development. Mining and exploration companies based in Canada account for 43 percent of global exploration expenditures. In 2008, over 75 percent of the world’s exploration and mining companies were headquartered in Canada.”

Now here come the interesting statements from the federal government site which do not match what the parts of the world that Canada operates in are saying:

“The sector faces unique social and environmental challenges when operating in developing countries. Faced with these challenges, a number of Canadian companies are engaging in corporate social responsibility (CSR) initiatives, generally defined as the voluntary activities undertaken by a company to operate in an economically, socially and environmentally sustainable manner. These companies are making substantial contributions to economic development in their host countries. Indeed, Canadian industry associations and extractive companies have been recognized domestically and internationally for their leadership on these issues. However, more can be done. Many companies are looking to the Canadian government for guidance and support in managing the risks of operating in complex and challenging environments.”

The story is about Chinese owned companies coming to Canada to mine…not about Canadian companies taking advantage of lax environmental standards in third world countries.

Those Chinese companies will be excellent corporate citizens while doing business in Canada…we have laws in place that must be respected regardless of your country of origin.

Yes, the “story” is about Chinese companies coming to Canada to mine.

As the report says in the first paragraph: “It has been nearly a month since the United Steelworkers issued a call to the Provincial government to conduct a full inquiry into the mine safety standards of Chinese owned coal mining companies before those companies are allowed to operate in B.C.”

Specifically, I am raising at least three “points.

1. There is more than just worker safety that ought to be a concern for mining operations. There is the whole notion of Corporate Social Responsibilities” which includes entire communities and can wreak havoc to their well being for decades.

2. Canadian mining companies operating in foreign countries ain’t no angels, so let’s look in our own glass house before casting stones. In fact, of the countries operating in the international sphere, they have by far the worst records, perhaps because they have a large slice of the pie.

3. When looking at Canadian mining safety, do not just look at home but also at those companies operating abroad.

So, I am upping the ante from the one the steelworkers have brought forward and am including the whole spectrum of the impact of mining not only on workers but also on community and environment.

The fact that we have workplace safety standards and other standards in place in our country does not give me much comfort.

An example of deaths at a mine is the operation of the the El Cubo mine in Mexico by the Canadian company MexGold Resources since 2004.

Since 2005, there have been at least 8 deaths in the mine and plant. Several of the deaths have occurred in the second 10-hour shift and at the end of week, indicating worker fatigue as a contributing factor.

In January 2010, after another death at El Cubo, the Secretary of Labour shut down the mine for a week, reviewed conditions and ordered compulsory health and safety training.

Here is a report on the dispute between the Nova Scotia company and the unionized workers.

http://www.icem.org/sv/27-Nordamerika/3896-El-Cubo-Mexican-Mine-Shut-in-Attempt-to-Crush-Union?la=EN

Of course, we never hear about such cases because they do not happen in Canada.

http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/3166

from the above link:

“The image that the [Mexican] population has of Canadian mines is that they’re murderers, and that’s throughout the region,” said Gustavo Castro, a close friend and colleague of Mariano’s who works for Chiapas NGO Otros Mundos.

“People have seen lives lost, dead livestock, waterways contaminated—that’s what they’ve seen of Canadian mining… And there’s a resistance movement that’s getting stronger all the time.”

It’s not that Canadian mines are necessarily worse than the mines of other countries—it’s that there are so many more of them.

“The Americans and the Brits and the Chinese and the Australians are no better, and if anything some are worse,” said Jamie Kneen, Communications Coordinator for MiningWatch Canada. “But because Canada is so dominant in the industry the odds are that if there’s a problem it’s going to be a Canadian one.”
————————————

And, of course, disputes between mining companies and aboriginals are not exactly unknown in Canada.
http://www.nationtalk.ca/modules/news/article.php?storyid=49851

“I am cautiously optimistic about all of this. I just hope that the court will make sure our rights are respected,” said Wahgoshig Chief David Babin.

“This company has been extremely disrespectful and has failed to take any appropriate steps to consult with and accommodate our community.

Even the Crown has been telling Solid Gold to stop drilling, but the company refuses.

Now we can only hope that the court will stop them because it appears they won’t listen to anyone else.”

Gus, you are sure determine to discuss canadian mining companies??? Perhaps the steelworkers can straighten them out for you.

Gus, you are sure determine to discuss canadian mining companies??? Perhaps the steelworkers can straighten them out for you.

And you are concerned about some steelworkers? Why? You afraid of them?

I totally realize that China has the worst record in the world for mining deaths, especially coal mining. I also assume, perhaps mistakenly, that there are some Chinese mines and mining companies that are better than others.

For whatever reason you put a lot of faith in Canadian mining regulations, inspections as well as WorksafeBC regs and inspections.

The fact is that mining is one of the more dangerous jobs. The fact is that ALL people involved with working in mines are directly involved with safety.

So, the real question is, why are you so concerned that a union has safety questions about a Chinese company operating in BC?

From where do you get your comfort level with regulators? Regulators do not “own” the problem. The person who puts himself in danger does! So, in my world, those people and those people who they have to work with to make sure that their problem is fixed as best as possible are the important ones.

And no, Canadian companies, when operating in countries with weaker worker clout, no matter how weak or strong the regulators may be, do not carry on with operating the way they would in Canada.

One of the indicators of how safe a job is and how well the “system” has been able to address job safety is the WSBC assessment rates of specific job classifications.

Here are the WSBC rates for 2012
http://www.worksafebc.com/insurance/premiums/2012_rates/classification/browse_sectors_and_subsectors/subsector.asp?id=7040

$7.67/$100 for underground mining which is what we are looking at for the type of work likely to be undertaken at the operation described in the report.
http://www.worksafebc.com/insurance/premiums/2012_rates/Assets/Applications/Classifications/pdf/2012_704013.pdf

The rate for a police officer is $1.41

So yes, I think we should be concerned about the impact of an unknown company coming in from a country with some major safety problems in the field of mining.

In fact, anyone who is a workplace safety minded person would understand that job safety ought to be everyone’s concern and that anyone who beleives otherwise should be viewed with suspicion and caution.

So, the real question is, why are you so concerned that a union has safety questions about a Chinese company operating in BC? And you are concerned about some steelworkers? Why? You afraid of them?

Since when has the Steelworkers union taken up the position of official opposition in BC? The safety record of some chinese mining company is none of their business unless they are operating under the steelworkers charter. ;-)

Just as we don’t expect canadian mining companies to apply our health and safety regulations when operating abroad, we shouldn’t expect that chinese mining companies will expect to follow their home practices while operating here.

We have government workers that we pay to protect people working in BC, unionized or not. WE have government workers that we pay to enforce our environmental regulations.

Why are you so sure that this chinese mining company is going to come here to rape and pillage..pollute our air and water and NOT face the wrath of our paid overseers?????

If they use Chinese workers working Chinese owned mines in Canada than its not a stretch to assume they will use Chinese practices here in Canada. If we allow them to subsidize their mines with lax attention to environmental policies and undercutting the Canadian wage standard then we are in effect subsidizing these firms to displace Canadian firms when it comes to the financial statement and eventually the ownership competitiveness.

If we allow companies to be subsidized by cheep human labor and lax environmental laws in another country to displace Canadian industry, then that is bad enough, but when we import the globalized practice to Canadian soil then that becomes a bigger problem on many levels.

The way they operate overseas is material in how they intent to operate here in Canada. We are either a sovereign nation or we are a globalization victim to the lowest common denominator economics. The Steelworker Union is right IMO to question where the governments loyalties reside.