Why is this being addressed by the finance minister?

I see a general strike in your future, BC Liberal government.

Because the finance minister thinks he’s king.

Whos is harrassing who Falcon, time to look into the mirror you incompetant bully.

Hopefully this teacher strike is the beginning of the end for the likes of falcon and clark and the rest of campbells monkeys. If the people can just stick together and stay on strike. Do not forget the fact that this goverment is in defiance of a supreme court order. How are they getting away with this. How is it that they are trying to ram through bill 22 now which is just an exension of the legislation that was found to be unconstitusional? Bill 22 is right from 1984 IMO. It is a lot more then just giving teachers more money to teach. This goverment has taken all the money from the kids. The class sizes are unbelievable. 30 or more normal kids and 4 to 10 that need extra attention. The lieberals have been spinning this to make it seem like its just about paying them more. And it is not. It is about everything now from HST to every other thing these honorable folks have done to the people of BC for the last decade. It is time to call election on this and let US decide just like we did for the HST. WE THE PEOPLE can force them out of ofice now if we just stick together now. Just think if they fine 40 thousand teachers for striking. THat’s 40 thousand new court cases for em to hear. And fine the union? Good luck. That legislation has already been deemed unconstitutional. And that could be appealed all the way to supreme court of canada. Good luck mr falcon. Your time is almost over ruining our province.

Haters notwithstanding, I would be very interested to see what the Labour Relations board has to say about this.

It’s time for a province wide general strike!

Unions had their beginings because of what we see going on these days.

Operation Solidarity must be resurrected!!!

Do we want greece or Canada? The Unions don’t control this province. I vote for governments to run this province. If its war with all the mindless worker bees, bring it on.

i am with you Dragonmaster!

I am with you dow7500. I have seen Greece and it is not a pretty sight these days.

Hey johnnybelt can you answer a question for me?
How is it this goverment is allowed to be in defiance of a supreme court order. Nobody else gets to ignore what the courts say. And also how do you always compare this situation with greece? Can you just explain these points in a little more detail so that maybe I could agree with you sometime. I’m sure all the other readers would like that also. You always just look like a campbell monkey the way you post comments in favour of them but yet you and I both know that soon this goverment will be removed from office. Guess you be outa work too then right? Ah boo hoo

Hey JohnnyBelt, I’m with yuh. Although this mudslinging is an interesting read, like to see also what the LRB says.

Wonder if this excerpt from the LRB ruling is what he’s talking about.

6. During any job action, BCTF members will not picket, block access or egress or
otherwise restrict or cause to be restricted in any way, the full and complete access
to schools by members of all support unions or impede the operation of other
employers who occupy the same premises as schools or school districts;
7. No job action by BCTF members beyond that contemplated in this interim order
may be undertaken except with the express authorization of the Board;

The gov’t blames the teachers they are making this all about class size and lack of teachers, the teachers blame the gov’t they are making it all about wanting more money. The funny thing is in all this ALL the other concessions the teachers want, like 5 years leave per child for maternity, extra bereavement leave for any relative dying or friend dying, up to 6 weeks paid leave to attend to an ill relative, extra time to get ready for professional days (that one has me stumped, time to get ready for a day off?), extra time to get ready for exams (for you who don’t know the extra time means time away from classes). So the way I see it, of course the classes are large and they are short teachers because a lot of them are off for one reason or another and someone has to teach the kids. And for those who THINK teachers don’t get paid over the summer because it is a set amount over a 12 month period, those contracts they negotiate are for 12 month periods, not 10 months, so in affect they certainly do get paid for 12 months and work 10 to start with right off the top. Add in all the EXTRA time off they want to be able to get and you are lucky if the average teacher ends up teaching 8 months of the year. When you are only required to be there 8 months out of 12 then the odd evening at home marking papers or getting ready for next days class doesn’t seem such a hardship anymore.

Hey matty, I didn’t bring up Greece, dow did. I was just agreeing with his sentiment. I have some questions, too!

As for the courts, it seems that the teachers could sue the goverment and take them to the Supreme Court of Canada. But they haven’t done that. Why? It would be an easy win, right?

Why do people assume I work for the government? No, I’m just a taxpaying sucker who works in the private sector. And I’m taxed out, probably much like yourself.

I’m sick of the BCTF crap that’s been going on through the past 25 – 30 years off and on through Socred, NDP and now Liberal governments. Nothing has changed on that front. Why do you support such an organization?

And matty, I don’t have any illusions that you’ll ever agree with me. It doesn’t matter to me whether you do or not.

Have a nice day.

It is always interesting to read the comments from uninformed or misinformed people. They rant on with conviction and yet they are clueless about the facts.

Whether you agree or disagree with the wages that teachers are paid, surely you must be able to understand that the government is yet again flaunting the law and constitution.

Don’t you have a problem with that? Or is it OK as long as it is about someone else?

Team Dragonmaster vs Team Dow7500 lmao
Unfortunately anyone who has read these blogs for awhile knows which team has more obvious highschool dropouts :-)

Just a clarification for ppl who may not understand the labour negotiation process. When a union like bctf comes to the table, they bring all sorts of proposals including some ridiculous ones. Reason being that you can’t add more once you are negotiating. So when ppl go off about the 1000 days off for deaths of friends etc please understand that nobody expects to get these but its denial might be used to try to gain ground somewhere else.

Both sides, for lack of a better word, suck. But this govt has been horrible for years and they are trying to enforce some unlawful measures as well as union bust. Those two facts are not debatable in my opinion.

I wish Mattyc never learned how to read or write. We can for sure blame the teachers for that. One word for you Matty “Greece”

What really sucks is the fact that Falcon will be shortly collecting that gold plated pension provided to him from the pockets of those that are having a hard time making ends meet!

The situation in Greece was created by whom?

Kevino Falconopolis ?

we elect a government to represent the people, not their own agends.

The BCTF is for all intents and purposes a left leaning (NDP) supporting entity. So it would be fair to say that they will get little support from the Government.

In fact the Government will play hardball with them because they cannot lose votes that they dont have.

When you have the Government on the one hand, negotiating with Civil Servants (Teachers) on the other hand. It is gauranteed that the taxpayer loses. Not only does he pay for all the wages and benefits for the teachers, he pays the wages and benefits for the Government employees, who are doing the negotiating.

We have pretty well come to the end of the line with giving increases in wages and benefits to Government workers, and Government entities. The tax well has gone dry.

Its time to take a break and just go to work, collect your salary and go home. There is not enough money in the Province to continue to pay the Police, Fireman, Teachers, Government Civil Service, Politicians, Municipal Governments, and Government entities such as ICBC, BC Hydro, BCLC, BC Ferries, Toll Bridges, Airport Improvement Fees, etc; etc; etc;

Where the hell is the money supposed to come from?? If your working in a retail store, you are lucky if you get $12.00 per hour, yet a part of your taxes goes to pay the above mentioned people $20-30 dollars, plus benefits, holidays, etc;

The people paying the taxes do not get the wages, and benefits etc; that Government workers get. Its time to look after the regular workers, and let the Government workers go without anymore increases or benefit adjustments, for a minimum of 5 years.

I think that the Liberals will use this teacher issue as part of their strategy to call a **snap** Provincial Election.

Have a nice day.

Simple solution:
Privatize Education…it worked with Highways

Put Jimmy Pattison in charge..and he’ll make a profit…let him deal with the teachers…(love to be a fly in the wall during negotiations)

So But, you dont know a teacher do you because the teachers do have a choice to get paid for the 12 months but they have to get money taken off there cheques for that to happen. If they dont then they do NOT get paid at all for the 2 months that they are off.

Simple solution:
Privatize Education…it worked with Highways

Put Jimmy Pattison in charge..and he’ll make a profit…let him deal with the teachers…(love to be a fly in the wall during negotiations)

Did I touch a nerve…no more comments?

sorry that should read :

(fly on the wall..not in the wall…)

Run with this people…agree or..?

mattyc. I recall on one of your rants that you regularly drove to Alberta on shopping sprees to avoid paying sales tax. Now you support raises for the public sector. Do you see the hipocracy in that?

No big surprise that Falcon weighs in on “Bobblehead Bully Team”

Dragon master called it, time for a province wide strike…again. They got rid of a bad government in Egypt and Libya….is BC next?

We can’t get our fat behinds off the couch to vote. Over in Libya and Egypt ,they are prepared to die for what they believe in. Little bit of a difference.

No I do not see any hypocrisy at all for that. The reason for that is simple. Because these corporations now pay nothing I do the same. It is really repugnant of you to say that I am a hypocrit because I refuse to pay HST and by paying that I am paying the tax for rich corporate pigs at the trough. I still go up there every couple of months for myself and my friends. The fuel is really quite small since 3 others pay and I do the shopping. It works out to about 30 dollars each for 4 people. It don’t take long to be stuck with a 30 dollar bill for HSt here so I just avoid it all together. I buy every thing there from chocolate bars to toilet paper to building supplies. And it feels greeeeeat driving there to not pay this illegal tax which WE THE PEOPLE voted to get rid of and is still being stuck on people here. SO if these corporate pigs would pay thier share of the tax then I would gladly pay mine. As it is I refuse to buy anything here in BC which has HST. I will continue to drive to alberta to buy my things. I really hope this teacher strike thing is the downfall of this rotten disgusting goverment. I hope the people stay on strike until they are forced from office.

I have to say that if i could go to Alberta I surely would and that is for much the same reasons as Mattyc. The fiberals lost the vote on the HST and they lost my vote as a political party long ago. When a government fails to spread the wealth that came from the natural resources of a province around fairly to all of the inhabitants of that province they should not govern.

So if CANFOR had a contractual dispute with its unionized employees, would strikers be prevented from picketing the CANFOR head offices in Vancouver?

Teachers are government employees. So why can they not picket the government’s head offices as well as the various school board offices?

LRB ruling will certainly be an interesting one.

Kevin Falcon must be related to Stevan Harper or maybe they are drinking the same tap water. Maybe Kevin is reading from the same book as Steve, as they both use the same hate language and they both use their power to suppress unions.

“The situation in Greece was created by whom?”

Teachers????

No wait ….. speculators?

oh … how about banksters? … as eagleone would call them

…. tax evaders?

…. government spending spree?

…. corruption?

…. forging data to the European Central Bank?

What about fair and square negotiations. Teachers want way to big of an increase (mose of use get 1 or 2% a year – and some years were 0% – not 5 or 6…..) On the other hand the gov’t is say ing 0% which is wrong too. I think teachers deserve increases like any other workers.

There were years where the mill workers didn’t get any increase – but only for a couple years – and now are back to small increase each year. Also we can’t demand increase to make up for past.
I just don’t see any reasonableness on either side!

Class sise, krap vhen eye vent two skhool their wuz 37 ov us en da woom. Nuthin wong vith Me.

Irri,

Teachers don’t diagnose, Medical Doctors do.

Capt America,

Good to see others actually understand the negotiation process.

Pal,

I agree I hate high taxes, however, saying that it isn’t fair for people making $12 an hour to pay taxes for someone making $20-30 an hour is communisim. It doesn’t work. THe $12 an hour have less education, training and responsibility. Someone flipping burgers at McDonalds doesn’t deserve $25 an hour. With good public education (what this fight is about) every person in Canada has a decent opportunity to make more for themselves. We have loans and programs available to support and train that other countries would (and do) kill for.

So dow7500 when you talk about Greece are you talking about the billions a year in tax evasion by the rich that has not been addressed by their government. Hmmm I wonder if the elite were paying their taxes in Greece would they be having this economic meltdown. Nope, you’re probably right it’s got to be the union’s fault.

Its not the elite not paying their taxes in greece unlisted, its all of them. Their whole culture, like italy, is all about tax evasion. There problem is also excessive benifits. Full retirement well below Germany. Extra paychecks for holdays, etc. Google “greece benifits” and if you can’t see that this was a big part of their structural problem, you’re huffing gas.

Bc has a long history that parallels’ greece’s thinking. Give them the raise, f//k give all of the public sector a big raise. Then raise the taxes to help fund it and watch the exodus of fed up taxpayers.

I am amazed at the simple minds in this province.

Not sure the current system of cutting government revenue via corporate tax cuts, then cutting government services to try and balance the books has been too successful either dow7500.

Of course the Conservative model is based on that principal, but the theory does not play out in real life.

Every cut to services takes more money out of the average Joe. Average Joe just happens to be the corporations customer. Every cut to services used by average Joe results in the corporations customer with less money. And then the Conservative model takes hold again with another corporate tax cut to stimulate the economy, followed by the cut to try and balance the books and the cycle continues.

The economy gets worse and worse for the government as revenue continues to decline.

And Average Joe is working his butt off and can’t get ahead.

Palopu – Continued increases in wages to government employees/entities? In 2004 HEU went out on strike and we were legislated back to work with a 15% reduction in wages. With the following contract we got some of that back, but had 2 vacation days taken away. Now our contract comes up at the end of this month, and it seems that “net-zero” is going to be the outcome, unless there are cost savings elsewhere, which in my case will mean being contracted out.

Palopu – I make significantly less now than I did 8 years ago, and it keeps going down.

Clearly Christy Clark is totally against all public employees, and their unions, yet she leads public employees.

Stop picking on public sector employees. Why not focus on the utility companies and the constant rate hikes approved, in order to pay the inflated salaraies of utility employees.

Some valid points taxed out. But putting your theory in reverse, Increasing the income for the average Joe(teachers), which in this case are taxpayer funded, comes from the average Joe and corporate taxes. So I give teachers a raise, they spend more, I spend less through increased taxes. It boils down to a transfer of wealth from me to teachers. We all agree that education is fundamental to our society, but it and health care must be sustainable. 15% in this world is a farce.

“It boils down to a transfer of wealth from me to teachers”

So how does a reduction in corporate taxes work? Is that not a transfer of wealth from the average joe to the shareholders of that corp who can effectively withdraw more money from that said corp because of the increased cash reserves as a result of the lower taxes?

Oh let me guess, those tax savings actually work their way down to the average joe via lower prices and increased jobs (even though job creation is typically driven by product or service demand and not taxes paid).

Oh and for the record, I do tend to think that anyone expecting a raise from any government right now is probably not seeing the big picture of everything else that is going on.

“Privatize Education…it worked with Highways”

In your dreams it did.

Kevin Falcon is a bully of the worst kind.
He is driven by sheer hate for the taxpayers of B.C…mainly because they killed off his beloved HST.
He would like to make us all pay for that!
Look at him next time he speaks…look at his eyes..this guy is MAD!
He is furious that anyone would question anything that he says!
Falcon is also known a bully in the house as well.
B.C.does NOT need politicians of his ilk anywhere in government…any government!
B.C.Taxpayers are gonna get you Kevin…you are done!

NMG, the idea of lower tax rates is to attract busnisess that have a choice were they locate. They don’t always work out but thats the theory.

Bottom line, there needs to be balance. Taxes and expenditures need to be competitve with other jurisdictions. This is why the BCTF 15% demands is out of line as ushual.

“NMG, the idea of lower tax rates is to attract busnisess that have a choice were they locate. They don’t always work out but thats the theory. Bottom line, there needs to be balance. Taxes and expenditures need to be competitve with other jurisdictions. This is why the BCTF 15% demands is out of line as ushual”

Oh I’m quite aware of that argument and it does have some merit. That said, it’s only one part of a much more complex analysis that includes among other things, distance to markets, access to raw materials to make products, political stability, access to suitable labour pools, etc. Of those that I mentioned taxes are likely the least important. After all, if you can’t operate the core business in a successful manner then the tax climate is completely irrelevant.

People also seem to have this belief that we not competitive when it comes to our taxation regime. This is simply not true. Canada is extremely competitive on a global scale and within Canada, BC is one of the lowest taxed jurisdictions we have. There are loads of businesses in Canada and around the globe that could improve their tax situation considerably if they moved to BC, but they don’t. The reason is quite simple and that’s because it’s only one small component of the overall picture.

I’d even make the case that as a Province and country we’d probably attract more business if instead of focusing on tax rates as the prime motivator, we focused on improving our education systems, allowing more skilled labour into the country via immigration, had more consistent regulations between Provinces, invested in infrastructure projects that would facilitate the more effective shipping of goods, encouraged more R&D through incentive programs, etc. All of these are far more important to helping encourage SUCCESS and that is what will attract business and jobs.

Your seeing the light dow7500, an investment in education helps average Joe, as having an educated society raises society’s income. Therefore when society has a higher income the corporation then has more customers. Having more customers is good for business. A healthy business with lots of customers means business can afford taxes, which puts more money in government, which can afford more services (including education) which puts more money in average Joe’s bank account, and the cycle continues.

No matter what business model you use….Having no customers will kill any business….A tax system that strengthens customers is a tax system that in the long run is healthy for long term economic developement.

The problem with this system is it is not immediate and it takes time to see the results. The results however are much more sustainable and have much greater impact on all aspects of society including a reduction in crime, which longterm is also good for our economy.

“the idea of lower tax rates is to attract busnisess that have a choice were they locate”

So let us say that business will actually locate in BC because we have a lower tax rate.

It would, by the same logic of attracting through financial incentives, be true that teachers (or any other worker for that matter) would tend to go where the salaries are highest.

I think we are seeing that by observing the movement of workers to Alberta and even Saskatchewan.

I suppose we are not concerned about that. In fact, we may simply be looking at that and saying, “hey, we need to provide more training spaces” and the companies who are not paying enough, such as CANFOR, or training for nothing, are telling the government that they need a specialized training facility here.

What the heck for? So that those too can go to Alberta and Saskatchewan?

It’s a vicious circle. One has to look at the whole system in an integrated fashion as NMG identified …… and then kneel down and pray that it will work, or put dreaded legislated controls in place to keep people home for 10 years where they were trained … good luck with that one!! ;-)