This makes me laugh…….

Oh the City is down $80K, OK Then in the same breath it sounds like they will likely spend money on either new meters or some other technology. Huh? Meters aren’t free, I seem to remember a story that each one costs a few hundred dollars. I bet this other new technology isn’t exactly cheap either. So how much money can the City really bring in after it’s all said and done??????

I wonder if the Mayor will stick a meter in front of her store……this will be interesting.

That is really amazing that Bylaw Services would come to the conclusion that when we had paid parking there was a net revenue of $80 thousand and when paid parking was removed there was a net revenue loss of $80 thousand. I mean that’s elementary, is it? Why should that surprise anyone? Is this about city taxes or business getting more business? Drive in to town on a Saturday from College Heights and look at all the business action happening from Wal-Mart down, then compare to down-town and down-town looks like a ghost town, that’s with free parking, imagine what it will be like when we get to pay for parking again! Meeting with friends at say Nancy O’s or Zoey’s and have to worry about plugging a meter? How can a guy enjoy his pulled pork sandwich, when Shari and company are hog wild to discourage me from doing so?

Let`s just build a fence around downtown and charge admission.

I wonder if that idea has ever come across council…

Probably…..lol

Brilliant

Has anyone asked the business owners if business picked up since meters were removed? That’s the important factor, methinks.

We were talking to one business owner who closed shop and moved on. The parking in front of the store was frequently taken by vehicles from people working at a store front service industry on the same block and side of the street.

People are used to the “convenience” of parking arrangements provided by shopping centres such as Spruceland, Parkwood and even Westgate. That is why indoor shopping malls are no longer being built at this time in history – too far to walk. If one cannot park in front of at least one of the stores one wishes to visit, forget it.

The downtown of PG has so many empty and underutilized blocks that it would be worthwhile rethinking the relationship of stores to pedestrian and vehicular traffic as well as parking. Some blocks are already set up for improved access.

Look at the Northern, for instance. Front entrance plus back entrance with parking off the laneway.

The old Bay store, access from the street as well as the parkade. Even that is no longer working well.

Humans are a fickle bunch; a high maintenance species …. :-)

Yes. Pay parking is what we need in PG. Something to encourage us to come to the dank, and partially deserted, downtown core.
Ah well, those meters should pay for the mayor’s new assistant. That’s what’s really important!

This is a good thing. I do not like to pay for parking, however, the free parking downtown was highly abused. This article did not talk about this at all. The majority of the vehicles that are parked on the streets are the people working downtown. This takes away parking spaces for people that actually come downtown to shop and for other errands.
I know this, because several of my co-workers park on the street and move their vehicles every 2 hours. There is 1 business where their employees are extremely unhappy with the workers taking the parking spaces, because their elderly customers cannot find a parking space within a reasonable walking distance.
If you come down in the morning (around 8:00) and look at the vehicles that are parked on Third Avenue & Victoria from monday to Friday, you will see the same vehicles parked there. None of the businesses are opened at this time.

Well, one more reason to avoid downtown. Off to the mall or college heights shopping where parking is free.

Thunderboltz: “This is a good thing. I do not like to pay for parking, however, the free parking downtown was highly abused. This article did not talk about this at all. The majority of the vehicles that are parked on the streets are the people working downtown. This takes away parking spaces for people that actually come downtown to shop and for other errands.”

Bingo. Taking out the meters was an experiment that failed. The employees that were either too cheap to pay or lazy to walk a block or two were the main culprits.

As long as the main business downtown is social service related outlets there is no point in trying to revitalize it. Meters won’t make one bit of difference to whether or not people go down there. Those who need to, will, and those who don’t need to, won’t. Most towns do have pay parking in thier downtown cores, but, not having it for a couple of years, does make this seem like a step backwards.

Just in time for bike season!
Pay parking is a good thing. Puts the onus of the tax burden on the people who actually use the facilities. Hopefully more people will look into buying a bus pass instead of a parking pass.

“””””””””””””Staff had recommended Council examine one of three options, and preferably go with option 1 or 2.

Option 1, called for staff to come back with a report on “implementation strategies” to bring back the meters.
Option 2 called for a further report on keeping the parking situation as is, but enhancing enforcement.

The third option called for maintaining the current free parking but improve signage.”””””””””

OPTION 4: Discontinue ‘chalking tires’ and ticketing for parking…cost savings would be derived from no longer paying salaries and benefits to all city employees involved in parking enforcement and costs associated with purchasing parking tickets etc. Probably at least $90,000+ in annual savings.

OPTION 5: Purchase computer equipment [as seen on tv show Parking Wars] to identify those circumventing parking bylaws via computerized licence plate identification, and install ‘the boot’ until fines are paid. PUNISH the offenders….not the innocent downtown shopper.

OPTION 6: Install toll booths on all routes entering the City of Prince George. On all road, rail, and air routes. It’s a user pay system where those that are driving on the roads, or adding to the downtown airshed pay into the maintenance of the city.

In reality Option 6 is what they really need…..;-)

curmudgeonscurse said……

“Hopefully more people will look into buying a bus pass instead of a parking pass.”

What a wonderful idea…but the city discourages people from using public transit in our city by providing limited bus stops in the downtown area.

Case in point. There has long been a need for a bus stop on 3rd Avenue near Dominion street to provide customer friendly downtown access for transit passengers using routes 5, 1 and 11. The nearest bus stop, for these 3 routes, to the downtown area is at 4th and Brunswick or 6th and Dominion.

A forward thinking city employee, facing much opposition, installed a stop on 3rd near Dominion about 2 years ago. The stop was in place for less than 2 weeks until pressure from neighboring businesses resulted in the removal of the stop.

And life goes on.

correction to above post……not 3rd and Dominion….should be 4th and Dominion…..Businesses objected to loss of parking spaces that would be gobbled up by the space occupied by a bus stop.

So instead of those parking abusers moving their cars every two hours they will just plug the meter every two hours.

Option 6 Jim13135 is a wonderful I idea. Call it the “Prince George Improvement Toll”. People shouldn’t mind paying it as they won’t have to replace the bent rim when they get home.

Or they could just double the Airport fee and put that extra cash into the roads.

Cheetos:
Lost 80,000 from revenue.
Cost 80,000 for current enforcement.
Difference 160,000.

NoWay: “So instead of those parking abusers moving their cars every two hours they will just plug the meter every two hours.”

If that’s the case, then these selfish people will continue to play a big role in the downtown’s demise.

I have a hard time finding parking downtown. Often all I need is to run in and drop off paperwork, and the free parking was a great idea. It saved me the trouble of looking for a quarter (which the meters would only accept). The city needs to get a clue and write down the offending cars’ license plate numbers. They can surely figure out who’s the employees and who’s shopping there. I like the boot idea!

this would be a good idea if government buildings alone were enough to support a downtown. But they are not. The city will lose much more than parking fines/fees. PG aint Vancouver. First you need to build a downtown worth visiting, then you can charge people to park there.

I do not understand why tires are marked.

Each car has a license plate that is unique.

Walk down a series of blocks each hour. Take a photo of the license and record the time and location of that vehicle.

At the end of the day one will have a record of licenses related to time and location.

The licenses which are there all day, just in different locations at different times will become obvious.

At the end of the week the pattern will become even more obvious.

Create a new set of fines which relate to intentionally circumventing the parking bylaw.

“The third option called for maintaining the current free parking but improve signage.””””””””” “

I got a kick out of this one. People don’t read signs.

there has to be a better solution than returning to parking meters. Don’t let a few stupid employees wreck it for all.

Really it’s not about parking, it’s about increasing revenues!! Put in the toll booths with a modest toll and the revenues can be used to support the cities infrastructure!!

Pay parking on downtown streets doesn’t attract more visitors…it drives them away.

This will keep me away from downtown and I’ll tell you why. Firstly I don’t carry cash anymore I use my debit card exclusively. Secondly I realize they have machines you can use debit cards in and get a parking pass. However those machines are centrally located which means you’re walking back and forth just to park. Downtown has very little to offer me as it is and now they are taking away any incentive. Not a very smart idea.

The abuse of the “free parking” downtown is more than evident. getting revenue back to the city as a posed to the tax payer having to cover the enforcement wages due to waiting the two hours to ticket offenders is important. Yeah you won’t park down town, don’t go there. This is a city and the city needs a revenue base of it’s own not just the tax payers. Pay parking is simple, with the violators getting fined and or in the case of repeat offenders towed and impounded till the over due fees are paid in full (plus towing and storage).

We can’t keep living in denial, if this is a city then meter parking is a fact of life. Businesses need to supply employee parking or bus passes to those who choose not to drive. There are city parking lots for long term parking. The sidewalks and streets need to be maintained, this added revenue will help cover some of those expenses. Meter parking won’t hurt downtown business, in fact it will improve it by allowing the rotation of on street parking in front of the businesses.

You want to park for longer than 30 minutes or an hour there is a city lot to park in. The repeat metering will also come to a stop by enhanced enforcement. The “boot” is not an option that would function here in Prince George due to weather and brain mass (some folks think they can drive with the boot on).

The city still has the old clock meters and will be looking at newer digital meters to replace those that have been vandalized or are no longer functional. As it stands with the free parking in the downtown core the space utilization is awful people just can’t park in this city without the defined space of a meter stall. There are blocks that should hold twenty spots and there are only 15 spots due to the lack of parking skill. That kills business when some joker parks and leave it there for two hours just to flash it up and move it a couple of stalls for another two hours.

Chalking tires was not an acceptable option with a two hour parking window, the ability to get back and ticket a violator in two hours is just not feasible. Enforcement staff just can’t get around quick enough to catch the repeat violators. Meters will allow the enforcement staff to check the meters more often and increase the number of violations written. Not everyone is honest and it’s those folks who take advantage a the system based on honesty. Fact of the matter is we* (*the city and it’s residents as a whole) need the meters back to cut down on our tax load. It was a stupid idea to take the meters out in the first place.

There are several types of metering systems out there which the city will look at, low tech is the best option for now. The systems are leasable from several vendors and the city will look at a cost effective means of metering the parking, not just in the down town core but throughout the city. It’s just something that needs to be done city wide.

The parking meters in concert with a towing bylaw will square up a few issues not only in the down town area but around the campuses, schools and public facilities. You wanna park at UNBC you need to pay. Well guess what you need to pay to park at the civic center, pools, CN Centre and any other facility under city control. The you will see the tax burden on the home owners drop. It’s a user pay society and we need to face the facts a city can’t just tax the snot out of the home owners all the time. The buck needs to stop some where, this looks like a good start.

I’ve been to both the civic center, and cn center and I didn’t have to pay for parking at either.

So why doesn’t the city just sell daily, weekly and monthly passes for people who are frequently downtown? Then those who are just down there to shop or do business occasionally don’t have to pay for parking.

But, they wouldn’t make any money. I can’t see going downtown. Downtown to me is Hart shopping mall, Parkwood, Colledge Heights, Pine Center.

That’s uptown Slim!!!

It’s a stupid idea to even consider putting the meters back in, some people seem to think property taxes will go down if they are put back in place, good luck with that!!

I wonder how much it will cost us poor tax payers to have the City install parking meters? As mentioned above, the old meters were easily broken into and parts were hard to find. So now off we go to purchase new meters and then have them installed! Yikes by the time the city is done, probably a half million dollars will be spent. So we are going to spend all this money to discourage shoppers from coming down-town, does that make sense?

The biggest problem with parking meters is not having change to plug the meters with. We have quickly become a cashless society and not many people carry change. I personally brought thousands of dollars of business back to a down-town business, when The City got rid of parking meters and for that reason. Parking meters are stupid and insulting. If there are workers down-town who abuse the parking, then the city should seek them out and fine them. It wouldn’t take much to figure who they are and who the offending business is; which should also be fined for not providing or dealing with parking issues of their employees!

That just finished all my downtown bussiness …as if he city didn’t raise our taxes every year for years now, they need to keep finding new ways to scam more money from all of us …gas tax ,road tax city tax, carbon tax, hst tax, car or pick-up tax now to park pay more money to go and buy something.Now the best part we pay wages from our city taxes to give us a ticket if we don’t pay to park.Way to go new city council you sure know how to get people downtown. I already see i voted wrong.

omygod:
Very good, the first step is admitting you have a voting problem.

I just can’t imagine that the cost to install, fix, and monitor these meters will generate enough to warrant this. So other cities all have them, so what. Its like the water metering initative. We have tons of water. Just because the Okanagan is dry dosen’t make it a PG issue. Target the offenders, problem solved. Move on.

In my opinion parking should not be a revenue generator.

“The sidewalks and streets need to be maintained, this added revenue will help cover some of those expenses”

Sidewalks have nothing to so with parking revenue. Parking revenue have to do with providing revenue to offset costs that deal with parking – capital and maintenance payment for parkades and parking lots.

Think any shopping centre, small or large. There is not a single one I can think of that requires paid parking. The cost of providing the paved lot and keeping the snow and dirt off it is a cost of doing business in the shopping centre and gets covered by the rent.

The location where employees park on those parking lots is a matter of people working there cooperting to keep the parking immediately in front of stores available for customers. Obviously some of the employees downtown have not been following this.

Simple. Go toe the businesses and tell the office manager what the rules are … so educate. Has any pof this ever happend? If that does not work … enforce!

As I understand it, the donwtown businesses north of 7th pay additional taxes to cover parking provided by the City. In effect, this could be considered to be double dipping. If the tax is insuffcient, raise it so that it is.

When the time comes that parking is overutilized, then either provide more parking or start charging for prime spots in front of stores.
——————————-
Check your facts before you post “Professional” .. it helps with your credibility.

“you need to pay to park at the civic center, pools, CN Centre and any other facility under city control.”

Do you even live here????

gus: “Check your facts before you post “Professional” .. it helps with your credibility.

“you need to pay to park at the civic center, pools, CN Centre and any other facility under city control.”

Do you even live here????”

I could be wrong, but I read this part of Professional’s post as his suggestion that we *should* be paying for parking at those faciities, not that we are currently.

Don’t be so quick to slam people’s credibility, it could be a misunderstanding. I have some experience in this field. ;-)

I agree JohnnyBelt that maybe he/she meant to say “should”.

But here is the quote from the last paragraph.

“The parking meters in concert with a towing bylaw will square up a few issues not only in the down town area but around the campuses, schools and public facilities. You wanna park at UNBC you need to pay. Well guess what you need to pay to park at the civic center, pools, CN Centre and any other facility under city control.”

So rather than “you need to pay” it should have read you “should” or “ought” or something like that.

The basic premise still holds. Parking facilities are not “free”. They come at a cost. There are differnt ways of collecting that cost. I prefer the KISS principle.

In the case of a shopping centre it is part of the common area rental cost to those who rent spaces in the centre. Parking is there for their benefit. Not only that, but they also abide by the rules of where employees park in order to provide the best parking opportunities for their clients.

Would you want to charge for parkinig at shopping centres because you are using the spaces?

Would you want to pay to use the mall’s internal street?

Would you want to charge for people entering a store?

I mean, people could use all those facilities and leave empty handed. They should have paid for all those uses …. sounds rational, doesn’t it? Why should I have that cost of sweeping the floor, having extra staff on for lookiloos that do not buy, etc. tacked onto the price of the goods I buy?

The one and only issue that needs to be resolved and can be done once traffic is too great and walking distances to destination stores is too great, is the issue of too many people trying to get spots close to a few highly attractive stores. But, when that issue arises, we can deal with it with controlled parking so that those who are willing to pay can park close by and those who are not willing to pay will have to do a bit more walking.

As ted Moffat from Northern Hardware said on TV .. business picked up when the meters were removed and now they are going to reverse that again.

Quit marking tires, get an awarenss program going to business owners/managers so that they and their staff will not park on the street and start enforcing for those who do not want to be good corporate citizens.

Actually, this is one of the things that the DBIA should be doing. This is a merchant and business owner problem, no different than in a shopping centre.

Where is the DBIA on this issue? In fact, they could be collecting the money to “pay” for the offstreet parking and putting it into edcuation and enforcing programs.

It’s a pity that people miss the point and don’t read and understand before they go off half cocked with comments.

As of yet we don’t need to pay for parking at the pools, civic center, CN Centre or any other City controlled venue. Wake up! (It’s called fore shadowing)

What I am saying is simple if you have been anywhere south of Kamloops, pay parking in municipal facilities is almost common place. Revenue is what the city needs to reduce the tax load on the home owners. Pay parking is not unusual and won’t scar people from coming down town.

Some folks didn’t get the point I was trying to make in my first posting. It’s simple a city this size needs to pull it’s head out of it rear and look at costs and expenses. Everyone wants Prince George to be “The Northern Gateway” well start acting like a City and do what every other city in the province has had to do, and charge for the use of city facilities this includes on street parking.

It’s not rocket science. Revenues from the collection of parking fees and fines goes into general revenue and that “pays to maintain city services, sidewalks, streets and toilet paper in the city washrooms. Check my facts, well I actually was at the counsel meeting Monday night so I know what was said. Clearly the “free parking was a bad idea” and was being badly abused. It was a pilot project that showed the members of counsel that free down town parking was a bad idea and clearly wasn’t worth the subsidy needed from the tax payers for enforcement.

All cities use pay parking as a self regenerating means of revenue, it’s nothing new. The city is going to get into your pocket one way or another, pay parking is just another less painful way to avoid an increase in your home owners property tax. Geez

Yes……… I live here and I am a home owner with a tax bill every year that seems to go up with every stupid idea that occurs in city hall. Can you say dyke? Seriously common sense dictates that if you can’t spare a couple of quarters to plug a meter maybe you should walk instead of drive. Is pay or meter parking going to hurt the downtown businesses? Well I don’t think so, owning a business I can say if your business or service is what the public needs, they will come down town to get the service or product you have to offer. But if they can’t park because there are no open spaces due to misuse of free parking then that’s an issue.

Will the mayor have a meter in front of her business? Yes she gets a meter just like everyone else, when it will happen is yet to see, but it’s coming.

The point I was trying to get across was this, any other city charges for parking spaces on the street and at city controlled venues. It’s a matter of time before the city looks at charging to park at it’s venues to keep the over head costs down for the tax payers. If you use a venue or go to a game or just hang out at the parks with the kids, there will be a parking meter or ticket spitter there, it’s just a matter of time.

Post Script; Thanks to those who read and understood where I was going with the fore shadowing of pay parking every where. Dont get me wrong I like PG that’s why I moved up here from Victoria ( slowly shakes his head now….lol )

“The point I was trying to get across was this, any other city charges for parking spaces on the street and at city controlled venues”

Well, that is a matter of opinion, not of fact. There are many cities which do not have pay parking on downtown streets. The larger cities, in fact, have very little parking on downtown streets since they need the space for those cars that are moving. Others have severely restricted times for on street parking and it is enforced with a vengeance.

There are some very fundamental reasons for having the various systems. Few have anything to do with revenue generation.

Amarillo Texas, the second city I came across when I put “does paid parking downtown work” into a search engine.

For those who are unfamiliar with the size of the city, it is around 200,000 with a metro population of 250,000. So easily larger than any community outside of the GVRD.

Here is the site. http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2012-03-07/board-eyes-downtown-parking-meters

“Downtown redevelopment could eventually result in paid parking for those visiting the revitalized area, according to a presentation Wednesday at Amarillo City Hall.

“As projects begin to attract more people to Amarillo’s core, long-range planning must consider public-parking time restrictions and parking fees, Downtown Amarillo Inc. Executive Director Melissa Dailey said.”

It is a site well worth looking at since there are a lot of comments just like on this site.

For example: “There goes drawing more people to downtown. Amarillo is just not that kind of place were our citizens are going to pay. They will just avoid downtown AGAIN.”

This one really stood out for the excellent rationale behind it.
“They need to look at a town similar in size to Amrillo and quit looking at Dallas/Ft worth for examples. Do cities our size charge for parking? If so, do they have something unique, drawing people to that area. If not, this will never work.

“I remember when the water park opened in town and they charged for parking. People parked blocks away to avoid the fee and there were virtually NO cars in their parking lot.

“This should be baby steps. Maybe put meters in the busiest areas and see if they make money. I wouldn’t mind paying to get a good spot instead of driving around forever looking for a spot.”

Here is a really “cute” one. Reminds me of PG … LOL

The headline says “Downtown High Point has no parking meters. None. Anywhere!”

High Point is a city in North Carolina. Population 105,000 with immediate surrounding have a pop of 150,000

This is a view of the city’s centre.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/HighPoint%2CNC.jpg

This is the article

http://thesnakesmommy.blogspot.ca/2011/08/downtown-high-point-has-no-parking.html
“Why? Well, because 50 of every 52 weeks, downtown is dormant and there’s no reason to be here. Two weeks a year the Home Furnishings Crowd comes to town and it’s mayhem, though I bet most don’t have rental cars given the absurd amount of space given over to the shuttle buses, that only run during Showtime.’

“So the rest of the year, if we’re desperately bored enough to come downtown, we get faced with these: (sign which says courtesy parking).

How stupid..does anyone know how much it will cost to buy new meters and have them reinstalled? This whole parking thing is such a tax grab – does anyone know the fines that really being handed out inside the secure prepaid for parades. $100.00 for parking on a line (that I can’t see because it hasn’t been painted for a year)..$100.00 for not displaying urban most current parking tag even though the only way I can get in there is by already paying for the spot….just absolutely tax grabbing over and over those that already pay for everything…..insanity at city hall…

Parkade….I meant