So, this was all about students right? So they got put back to work with a 0 raise, and the government is still working with them on the issues that impact students.

So the government is still working with them on the complex issues that directly impact students but didn’t give them their raise, so they are still continuing job action?

Yeah, it’s all about the kids right?

Mr. Pearce is a fool if he thinks the majority of parents support the BCTF. Legions of parents see through the ‘it’s all about the children’ crap and understand this job action for what it is – a move to get more money into the pants of teachers. Frankly we’re sick of it Matt.

So what do you want to see cmdrjoe??? Maybe you should get off your big fat a$$ and volunteer for the kids. For that matter more parents should be doing that; then they wont have to snivel & whine about their poor little snowflakes not having any supervision. Teachers are not babysitters or for that matter slaves to this government.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you cmdrjoe. But taking the other side for debate purposes:

“Volunteer” – A person who performs or offers to perform a service voluntarily.

Why is it that we expect these people to go above and beyond their job description?

If your boss came to you at work and said please do a bunch of activities free of charge for the betterment of the company. And I will not even entertain any thoughts of negotiating with you come next contract time unless it is within a framework I make for you.

I am assuming most would not be too happy either.

But hey, the option is that teachers can quit.

Well it is supposed to be collective bargaining so if one party has an advantgage of haveing a weapon at their disposal (ie) government then the word (collective) is no longer valid. It is reminicent of haveing a fireside chat with our expriemier Gordon Campbel- the conversation only comes from the Priemier and the constituents are supposed to listen, much like it remains with the next Liberal government. Well we are just waiting for an election.

While I have my opinion for and against both sides of this labour dispute, one thing is very clear to me. The Teachers do not have to volunteer their time for a single second if they choose not to.

If you want your child to have after-school drama or sports activities, then get off your holier than thou behind and donate your own time.

Frankly I’m quite tired of parents expecting teachers to babysit their “little darlings” for them. Why don’t THEY take off time from work to volunteer? What? You can’t afford to? Why is that the teacher’s problem?

I don’t even have a child nor am I involved in education, so my opinion is not biased on this one. I’m just sick and tired of parents bitching and complaining.

cmdrjoe. Have you read the legislation? The government is NOT working with the BCTF. Their Bill lays out the outcome that the teachers, BCPSEA and the mediator have to reach. How can that be called mediating a collective contract?

Harry Gairns wrote a very good letter to the editor in the Citizen sometime last week which blew up the myth of so-called ‘zero percent’ salary increases.

‘So what do you want to see cmdrjoe??? Maybe you should get off your big fat a$$ and volunteer for the kids. For that matter more parents should be doing that’

Parents aren’t allowed to volunteer during school hours, or immediately after – the teachers saw to that years ago. The ‘reasons’ include insurance coverage, liability, blah blah blah.

Otherwise armies of parents would line up to do playground watch, coach sports, go on field trips, etc.

Come on JohnnyBelt; facts have no place in this discussion.

This is all about the kids, remember?

“Parents aren’t allowed to volunteer during school hours, or immediately after – the teachers saw to that years ago. The ‘reasons’ include insurance coverage, liability, blah blah blah.”
Rocky, I have spend many many hours volunteering at my kids school. During school hours, and even on camping trips (after school hours). I have seen field trips cancelled because other parents can’t help out. Parents are allowed to volunteer, as long as they have had their criminal record check, and, if driving, a drivers abstract, with proof of insurance on their vehicle(s). If parents aren’t volunteering, it is not because they aren’t allowed to.

I agree strongly with the teachers position on this matter.
Money is not the main object here. Money is a wedge in trying to get stability and quality in class size and composition. It is no easier for a teacher to teach 35 students in 70 minutes than it is for a construction foreman or supervisor in any designation to oversee a similar supervisor/worker situation.
Special needs students should be supervised and taught by specialists in that field. They should not be crammed doubly and triple in a regular teachers classroom where it is impossible for both them and regular students to get adequate supervision.
I strongly believe that teachers would accept a Zero wage increase at this point if they could get a satisfactory resolve to the other issues.
On the other hand why should they not get a increase if their contract was stripped a number of years back????

Another factor to look at in the withdrawal
of volunteerism re: extra curricular activities is the impact on business in the community, especially in the field of motel, hotel and restaurant services. School activities and tournaments are one of the main economic drivers in keeping these businesses open and profitable through the school year when there is no real other tourism or visitor factor.

A case in point is the recent Provincial Single A Girls basketball tournament that came to town. Fifteen teams consisting of approximately twenty athletes, coaches, chaperones came from out of town with many parents or family members added. This impacts greatly on the better business in any community. In the case of Prince George this is repeated dozens of times a year. Ask the people at Esters Inn how busy the week of the A tournament was.

It is the business community that will suffer as much as any connected with this present Teacher/Government altercation.
They are the ones who should be standing firmly behind the teachers cause. But that is not likely to happen so let them suffer the consequence with empty rooms and seats.

Bill 22 should be scrapped at once and the devious Government officials must be brought to task on the whole matter..
Trackster:

Maybe they should spend their time actually doing classroom teaching instead of the other stuff. That includes the “other stuff” during school hours also. My kid does not need to spend a week where 2 days are at the ski hill, 1 day at the swimming pool and then the friday as a ahem pro d day. I can take care of these activities for my child myself. I dont see the teachers running to get rid of their out of class field trips, done on school hours, anytime soon. All or nothing teachers….I say nothing but straight classroom work for the rest of the year.

Reading these posts above it looks like the teachers run the school system?

Is there no school administration?

When did the teachers start purchasing liability insurance for the school system?

“Other stuff”, are the teachers responsible for the curiculum in our schools?

All about the kids, I have asked this question many times on this website and none of you teacher bashers have come up with an answer.
Name another union either public or private that fights for its customers more than the BCTF?
Do airline pilots fight for better seats in the back of the aircraft?

The BCTF and teachers have fought for learning conditions for their students continually throughout.

Not sure why you teacher bashers think that teachers are not allowed to fight for wages for themselves?

Bring it on!

‘Not sure why you teacher bashers think that teachers are not allowed to fight for wages for themselves?’

1. Because you already make a generous salary for someone who gets 2 months off in the summer, luxurious Christmas and Spring breaks and is finished work daily before 3:00 pm.

2. Because there’s no recognition of merit over seniority – the oldest, most out-of-date teachers are the most generously rewarded.

3. Because the Teachers’ College has never, ever disciplined any of its own members, even though criminal proceeding have been brought against some teachers (including an on-going sexual assault case in this province).

4. Because you’re blind to what the rest of the working world has to deal with in terms of work-related stress, uncertainty, budget constraints, etc.

5. Because you hold kids and their parents hostage in your petulant temper tantrums against your employer (the taxpayer).

6. Because other public sector unions have agreed to work within the net-zero mandate of our government (read ‘you’re not special’)

7. Because I’ve seen first hand how awful some teachers can be, yet still gleefully retain their jobs – my oldest has a (highschool) math teacher that couldn’t count the number of posts on a four-post bed.

8. Because you thrust your self-interested political message (overtly and covertly) down the throats of the children we’re paying you to teach, without discussing the opposing view of the taxpayer.

Let me know if you need any more.

“1. Because you already make a generous salary for someone who gets 2 months off in the summer, luxurious Christmas and Spring breaks and is finished work daily before 3:00 pm.”

Cancel it then! Then watch the people whine because they can’t go on holidays because the kid’s are in school. Many countries around the world don’t take that much time off so why should North America!

“2. Because there’s no recognition of merit over seniority – the oldest, most out-of-date teachers are the most generously rewarded.”

The longer you teach the better you are just like any other profession.

“3. Because the Teachers’ College has never, ever disciplined any of its own members, even though criminal proceeding have been brought against some teachers (including an on-going sexual assault case in this province).”

Prove it!

“4. Because you’re blind to what the rest of the working world has to deal with in terms of work-related stress, uncertainty, budget constraints, etc.”

There are some pretty messed up people out there who have spawned some pretty messed up kids. But that doesn’t add any stress. How many schools have shutdown in the last 10 years? SD 57 and many others are always having budget issues.

“5. Because you hold kids and their parents hostage in your petulant temper tantrums against your employer (the taxpayer).”

Good morning Mister Rocky. Starting today we have ripped up your legal contract and we know it’s illegal to do that but don’t care. We will give you a mediator that will negotiate your next contract with our terms only. Don’t have a tantrum.

“6. Because other public sector unions have agreed to work within the net-zero mandate of our government (read ‘you’re not special’)”

They didn’t have a choice. Besides the ones that just signed a 2 year net-zero contract expires at the end of march. Do you think they will take net-zero again?

“7. Because I’ve seen first hand how awful some teachers can be, yet still gleefully retain their jobs – my oldest has a (highschool) math teacher that couldn’t count the number of posts on a four-post bed.”

You learn to count to 4 in grade 1. Such simple math has no place in high school.

“8. Because you thrust your self-interested political message (overtly and covertly) down the throats of the children we’re paying you to teach, without discussing the opposing view of the taxpayer.”

What political message is that? “The government broke the law.”

“Let me know if you need any more.”

You’re flapping your wings but not taking off. Try again

Hmmm, how does one respond to Rocky’s pithy comments:
1. you’re confused. Teacher’s salaries are pro-rated over a 12 month span but they only get paid for 10 months work. This is true of all seasonal employees who earn wages while they work and are then taxpayer subsidized through the EI system. Teacher’s days end before 3:00? That’s delusional.
2. Seniority over merit? How is that different from any unuinized position? Are you anti-union? If so, please provide a rationale for attacking unionized labour in a province where both private and public sectors depend on unionized labour.
3. True, but the BCTF is a professional association, not a disciplinary college; two entirely different things.
4. Again, it appears that you are confused. Teaching can be extremely challenging and stressful. Do you find parenting stressful sometimes? Think about what it must be like to have to maintain control over a classroom of 30 or more kids.
5. Teachers are still teaching, so where is the justification for villifying them with unsubstantiated claims like this?
6. “agreed to work within the net-zero mandate of our government”? Coming to the inescapable conclusion that the government will never bargain in good faith is a far cry from agreeing to not go out on strike for fear of jail time.
7. Show me one damned profession that doesn’t have a few clunks in it. I’ve had doctors who couldn’t diagnose, mechanics who couldn’t fix, carpenters who couldn’t build, cooks who could parboil doodoo for a hobo, and worked with people in several different jobs who were ineffective at best but happy as clams that they were still employed. So what?
8. Who doesn’t take every opportunity to push their own self-interested agenda? You just did in your rant, so how is that any different than the teachers. The only difference is that their agenda doesn’t match yours. We ALL belong to a special interest group. Get over it.

Man, you must really despise those with educations, you’re so hell bent on hobbling the efforts of teachers . . .

A few points

-A 70k salary for 10 months work is 84k on an annualized basis.

-In their last contract, the teacher’s got a raise between 2 and 2.5% each year- how many people in the private section can saw that?

-BCTF has one negotiated settlement in THREE decades.

-Why are public sector unions the only ones who try to play salary leapfrog with other parts of the country? If you want Alberta wages and benefits- submit a resume there. Conditions are different, compensation likewise.

NET ZERO wages….talk about non monetary issues.

btw- Saw that anesthesiologist’s are threatening to withdraw services saying there is massive waste in the system and they want a substantive raise. Well- help reduce the waste and there will be funds available for raises. Typical thinking from someone paid by government- no bottom to the well.

‘Seniority over merit? How is that different from any unuinized position?’

It isn’t, and it’s wrong.

A BCTF member obviously taught you how to spell.

“The BCTF has one negotiated settlement in three decades” – so its not just the liberals fault?!?
If you go to the chess club and everyone hates you so you decide to go to band and find that everyone hates you so you join the outdoor club and everyone there still hates you so you join the computer club and everyone there hates you too… Well you get it – lowest common denominator…

Teachers should not be negotiating conditions for kids. They should just be going for wages. Every time they try to negotiate for the kids they get the contract torn up or not followed. They should go for wages like any other union. If the government wants more for the kids they can add it at their cost.

I know teachers that are at work at 8:30 and leave at 4 PM only to spend at least 2 more hours at home. Then on weekends they mark of work on lesson plans. Teaching is a 10 hour day and probably 4 hours Saturday and Sunday. Yes all that four $70thou a year but only after 5 years of university and then 10 years to get to maximum salary.

NoWay? Way!

Prove it!

Just read the Avison Report, among others.

Even the Communist Broadcasting Corporation felt compelled to report it back in 2010, much to their chagrin, I expect.

‘The review was launched in May after the college chair Richard Walker said internal problems, which had been brewing for months, needed to be addressed.

According to Walker, 270 complaints had been made against B.C. teachers since 2003 and none had resulted in disciplinary action against a teacher.

Avison found in his report that “many of these complaints had been reviewed by the Registrar and had been found to be either beyond the Council’s jurisdiction or not sufficient to warrant ‘further action.'”

But he cited three instances where teachers had their credentials restored or upheld after serious wrongdoing. One had been convicted of sexual offences against students, another of drug trafficking and a third of forging court documents.

“I found it remarkable frankly,” Avison told CBC News.’

The BCTF settled with the NDP gov’t in 1998.
The contract called for three years at 0-0-0 .
The contract did spell out learning conditions and classroom limits.
Gordon Campbell “ripped up” that contract; the courts ruled that what he did was illegal.
The teachers feel completely betrayed and the Liberals have done nothing but continue to “set up” confrontation with the teachers. I believe that it is deliberate to shift focus from their screw ups.
Also heard while in Vancouver a couple of days ago that Christie has hired 2 or 3 “spin-doctors” to help her educate us.

Hi rocky

Avison’s report was flawed. For example, did you know he was married to the deputy minister of education? The three cases noted by Avison-one was decided when BCTF members were boycotting for the college, so teachers had nothing to do with the decision. As well, there is a perception that it was the BCTF protecting their “own.” None of the people in the three cases were BCTF members: the people were attempting to get certified, not to keep their certification. And all the cases were unanimous decisions, involving BCTF and government appointed judges. So none of these people had their credentials restored or upheld.

The point here is that the media, and the report, blamed teachers/BCTF for the failures of the college of teachers, and ignored that all of their decisions were agreed to by the government members as well. Not trying to criticize, but remember that the story you often get in mainstream media will report the sensational, but ignore some important facts.

Was gone all day, thanks for the support.

Looks like once again none of the teacher bashers were able to answer my question of any other unions fighting for the company of governments customers the way the BCTF has.

Looks like all the teacher bashers had ALL their points de-bunked, as usual once again.

Its getting boring teacher bashers, come up with some new tales on how teachers are the problem with the education system.

Ask yourselves, teacher bashers, are the Liberal governments negotiating strategy “all about the kids”? If not, why not?

Charter schools hire and pay on merit. Given the choice at a lower cost, most parents and taxpayers would chose this route. Low administrative costs and the money is spent on the student not Government and Union bureaucracy! Every town should have one, and if so the public education system would go the way of the doodoo bird, as it should! Ironically any good teacher would want this system, as they would earn what they were worth, and have more satisfaction knowing the students were actually learning.

Yeah you bet cougs78. Which private school would take the special needs kids at the same cost as the other kids, and risk a negative rating in order to attract the best and the brightest?

Which teacher would work for the private school that accepted the undesirables at the same rate of pay with no chance for merit pay as the undesireables underacheived?

Why do you think it would be cheaper, surely any private school would need to add in a profit of at least 15%, leading to a fight from the BCTF to a fight with private industry to maintain a profit?

Surely the private companies would put the children first ahead of any profit?

Have a look at the “run of the river” projects in BC to see how privatizing our BC Hydro is so much cheaper for the people of BC.

Where you instrumental in the run of the river projects cougs78, great idea, keep em coming, cougs78.

Privatize public education cougs78 cause it would so much cheaper. Just like the American Health Care system hey cougs78, privatized and the most expensive healthcare system in the world. The American Health Care system is responsible for more personal bankrupsies than any other economic issue in the USA. 50 million people in the USA have no health care coverage at all cause they can’t afford it.

Great idea cougs78, keep em comin!!!

Reguardless of all the above pros and cons, my conversations with generic Prince Georgians conclude there is not an abundance of support for the teachers !

But there is a great amount of support for the BC Liberals!!!

Bravo for BC Rail….Bravo for BC Place….Bravo for HST….Bravo for 2.4 Billion dollar deficit….Bravo for giving our rivers away

Yeah I see the great support.

Seems few people are happy with their lot in life, many want more money.
Hey, I would not mind some of that myself.
Let’s give every working person a raise in pay, to heck with governments and ravenous shareholders.
metalman.

Looks like Ontario is headed doem the same road.

That’s down. My fingers are too sore from working all day to pay taxes. Maybe some time I will be able to afford a week off.

Ok, Taxed Out, it’s clear nobody is changing anybody’s mind on this issue. You can put away your orange pom-poms now.

So what about the children in all of this. My child was very upset this morning as the withdrawal of extracurricular activities means no Running Relays & Track and Field this Spring / Summer. This many not mean a lot to some but for some chldren these little extras work in modivational ways. Not only that is allows our children to be active & participate in an outdoor healthy program! Now our children will be suffering – it is time the government starts talking – the teachers & the government needs to work together to resolve their differences.
One more thing why would the government waste the teachers time now & mandate them to spend time doing report cards back to last September – the teachers have been reporting all along – this is a blatant waste of resources on our teachers times. Maybe for the Grade 11 & 12’s it is necessary but not for the rest. Get your head out of the sand!

There was published research on teacher attrition. It was discouvered that most teachers who left the profession did better financially within 18 months of their departure. Hmmmm….

what Rocky said X 10

Relax comrade “taxed out”. Your heads gonna explode.

Your back from another hooded rally dow7500, where was that, Edmonton?

Taxed out! Do a little research on Charter schools. They can be publicly funded NON UNION schools!Special needs students would get the appropriate setting instead of what they have now!

Who are you kidding cougs78, as long as they are funded by tax dollars we will have this ongoing battle. It really depends what the public wants from its education system. I want a system that produces a product at the end of the day. which in my opinion is better for the economy long term, having an educated society increases wealth and reduces crime. Others want a system that does not care about the product and can be done with minimal cost. Which in my opinion decreases societal wealth and increases crime. Depends where you want to put your tax dollars long term, in education or in the judicial system.

That fundamental difference will never change as long as taxpayers pay the tab.