” “This government has recently spent millions of dollars on radio, print and television ads, dollars that could have gone into classrooms. This is 2-thousand more dollars a day that could have gone into classrooms, but that’s clearly not a priority of theirs.”

Yeah, yeah…The only place Pearce wants to see money is in his pocket. The more I hear from Pearce the more I think that he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the kids, classroom sizes, special needs, etc. This is all about putting more money and more benefits into his pocket and the pocket of his friends.

The education system needs an overhaul. Let’s start by shutting down the megaschools, hiring more teachers and reopening the smaller community based schools. Keep the wages and benefits as they are for now and let’s shift the focus to the system.

I think that is exactly what the BCTF has been trying to do, faxman.

Smaller class sizes, classroom composition, and the BCTF have been very vocal on the closing of many schools over the last few years.

As far as money for teachers the only money they have asked for is to keep pace with the cost of living.

Looks like you are in agreement with the BCTF faxman, as to the goals you want and that of the BCTF.

Mr. Pearce is an idiot. The government is very anxious to have the teachers’ dispute behind them and will be willing to make a number of concessions at the mediation stage to make that happen. The only thing the government WON’T give them is more money – that’s been clear from the outset and is consistent with other ‘net zero’ public sector settlements.

If Mr. Pearce and the teachers cabal really wanted reduced class size, more special education support, etc., etc. they’d welcome the appointment of Dr. Jago and get down to the mediation process.

The fact that Dr. Jago isn’t a battle-hardened labour negotiator works in the teachers’ favour. Duh.

Have you read their demands? I have and I can see nothing in there that will in any way, shape or form affect class size and or class composition. Nor is there anything in there about school closures. I can see nothing in there that will help our failing education system. Sorry.

http://bctf.ca/uploadedFiles/Public/Publications/NewslettersAlerts/BargainingBulletin/2011-12/BB5-Jan2012.pdf

Dr. Jago is a fair, level headed person. He’s well respected in our community and has a track record of taking on impossible projects and making them happen without making enemies. Dr. Jago is well liked by everyone it seems except the teachers…

The teachers don’t want this settled. If they wanted it settled, they would start by attacking the mediator…

The teachers want money–lots of money. The BCTF could care less about the kids. The kids are just a good bargaining chip for the teachers.

The BC Liberals want money–lots of money. The BC Liberals could care less about the kids. The kids are just a good bargaining chip for the BC Liberals.

Well I see that there still are some people out there that are quite worried about whether or not they are still going to have their youngsters tought/ baby sat or not. If you can read between the lines maybe you could see that I favor the teachers. I’m still POed with the liberals for tearing up the signed contracts that the teachers had in their pockets. In the same breath the Liberals gave themselves a pretty heavy raise.

Well I see that there still are some people out there that are quite worried about whether or not they are still going to have their youngsters tought/ baby sat or not. If you can read between the lines maybe you could see that I favor the teachers. I’m still POed with the liberals for tearing up the signed contracts that the teachers had in their pockets. In the same breath the Liberals gave themselves a pretty heavy raise.

Hey there Matt Pearce, if your foolish negotiators had negotiated responsibly, we taxpayers wouldn’t have the added cost of having a mediator appointed to tell you that your demands were silly and excessive in the first place. Stick that in your hat and smoke it!

What would negotiating responsibly look like, Slim2229?

From what I have seen one side has not moved on any single item since the start. One side has softened its position on several items, and still no movement from the other side. Even tho the supreme court ruled one side has acted illegally and continues to ignore the rule of law. Kinda sad when you think we send our young people in harms way around the world to liberate innocent people of governments who do not follow the rule of law.

No matter which side you support it is clear that the BC Liberals have and will not negotiate on any level. Even to the level of mediation in which the BC Liberals picked the referee and the final score of the game, playing the game has become a useless formality.

I’m interested to read what you call responsible negotiating, Slim2229.

Taxed, I am absolutely frustrated with the FACT that the BCTF has been fighting governments for years.Had they negotiated responsibly we wouldn’t be talking about it. When that happens, through different governments it means there is one constant. The BCTF have been acting like spoiled brats not getting their way and I am sick of it! Now my taxes will have to pay for another mediation. The majority in this province voted in the Liberals, so the BCTF is stuck with it. When Supreme Court rules someone has acted illegally there is redress through the courts for the other side but they have not gone ahead with it.
What does that tell you.
That is only MY opinion, just wish the students didn’t have to suffer because of some so called educated person demanding another government bow down to them.

Another thing that really bothers me is Pearce comes out before mediation even starts and basically says “This guy isn’t qualified”. All that tells me is the BCTF doesn’t want to negotiate….. AGAIN.

Having Jago as a mediator is no different than having CLAC represent employees during contract negotiations.

Well you could say that for all unions Slim2229. Air Canada has a fight with all their unions every time. Canada Post the same thing. There are not many that agree on terms before negotiation, probably none. There hasn`t been a strike by teachers for many years then the BC Liberals stripped the BCTF contract illegally in 2002, resulting in a strike in 2005. Seems to me the problem has escalated under a government that doesn`t have the ability to govern or negotiate, and acts like a spoiled brat everytime someone, something dissagrees with them. BC Rail in the courts, HST by the people, 2009 election fraud with their own fudget budget, to name a few dissagreements that resulted in our BC Liberals sitting in the corner with the ball and refusing to come out to play.

As for Pearce, what do you expect, Jago was hired by the BC Liberals in 2006 to study the public school system. The result was predetermined by the BC Liberals and Jago reflected that. I guess Pearce and Susan Lambert don`t like the referee, seems they have grounds to. Bill 22 says the BCTF has no choice but to accept the terms of this flawed mediation as it became law under the bill. Something the BC Liberals have not done, abide by the law.

You still haven`t told me what responsible negotiating would be, Slim2229.

Faxman, Slimm2229,you seem to forget that the Liberals tore up a legally settled contract. The courts ruled that what they did was IILLEGAL. What part of illegal don’t you understand?

so, here we go again…two sides polarized by ideology, both thinking they are doing the right thing, and the public only listening to part of the message. and that just descrbes the pundits on this site. the part of the message the public is hearing is that “teachers are greedy, want more money, and don’t care about kids.” at least, that is what i read every time a story about contract negotiations is posted on this site. sometimes the vitriol is boggling. before you read further, know that i am a teacher, and if makes you feel good, please feel free to call me a bctf hack – i don’t mind, i just take it from the source.

the liberal party, when it was still in opposition, ran on an education platform of creating voucher schools across the province. each parent would get a voucher that they could use to send their children to the school of their choice. nice idea, bad reality. in other jurisdictions where this has happened, it has created socio-economic dysfunction. it has also led to a two tiered system where the poor and disadvantaged end up at under-attended and underfunded inner city schools where it is difficult to attract creative and dedicated staff – they burn out too quickly. the societal problems – poverty, gang violence, crime, etc. – that have been created are much larger than the educational reforms that were intended.

the government has every intent of creating a two tiered education system that is no longer equal, fair, or funded properly. under bill 22, the education improvement act, they have removed the “soft caps” for class size and composition in classes from grade 4 – 12. what does this mean? well, large classes could become huge classes. under the current legislation (bill 33) classes with as many as 52 students have been recorded, as have classes with as many as 17 special needs students in a class of 30 – and there was a process in place designed to PREVENT this from happening. can someone please tell me that these are optimum learning conditions for students? or optimum working conditions for teachers? this would be like running a planer mill at double speed and not expecting it to break down – ever, and if it does, blaming the operator because it no longer works.

if government was really interested in bettering education in the province, they would take a realistic look at a few things: the funding formula, class size and composition, teacher training at the university level, and many, many more things.

if the public (that would be you guys) were interested in bettering education in the province, they would become engaged and ask questions such as, “why is the district creating an athletic academy that will not be available to all students, regardless of financial need? and, how will they fund it knowing that the education budget is frozen?” or “how does the kelly road northern learning centre expect to generate results when it has a thinly developed plan with little input from the main groups involved? and how will this be funded with no additional funding from the government?” or “how does the province expect to pay for the new bc education plan without increasing the budget to provide students with the materials they need to be active participants, and without increasing the budget to provide significant infrastructure upgrades to schools?” or “why is it that private schools that can restrict enrollment based on mental and physical acuity and aptitude continually score higher on standardized tests than public schools which do have the same option? are these tests a fair measure of a school’s quality?” this last question is important, because bill 33 applies to private schools as well, but to my knowledge there has never been a bill 33 consultation at a private school – they just don’t happen when you can restrict enrollment to the chosen few. there are many, many more questions that need to be asked.

what are teachers asking for? many things. as faxman consistently points out, some are rather bizarre; however, these were part of contract negotiations – you start high and settle low. are they all realistic? no. would some fall off the table? yes. it just makes sense – you ask for more knowing you will get less.
ultimately, teachers are asking for a cost of living allowance (start high, settle low), a return of the language that was stripped out of our collective agreement in 2002 by bills 27 and 28, and a return to the funding levels that were in place prior to 2002 – this would result in an immediate increase of about $3 billion to the system. i know, i know, that would be a significant increase in funding and is a pipe dream; however, that increase is what should already be there, but was stripped to help pay for corporate tax cuts and the olympics. a return to previous funding levels would provide much needed assistance for students with special needs, students who need learning assistance support, and increased counseling and library support services. there is also the possibility that more school psychologists could be hired, or educational assistants brought into the system. instead, the government has proposed a $165 million “learning improvement fund” that would be spread out over four years and that individual districts will have to apply for, thus using up significant resources to access funds that equal about 29 cents a day per student. it doesn’t really compute.

regarding the government appointed non-binding arbitrator, by his own admission, dr. jago is probably out of his league in accepting the position as an arbitrator in this dispute. both the bctf and bcpsea put names of potential arbitrators forward; it is my understanding that dr. jago was on neither of those lists, thus i deduce, that he is a last minute replacement because, justifiably, none of the others would accept this task. i suppose if i was to be paid nearly $2000.00 a day to take on a “mission impossible” i might just do it, as well. besides, since it is non-binding, the government doesn’t really have to listen to his recommendations at all. if they are not satisfied, they will simply legislate what they want – an end to collective bargaining, the bctf, and one of the best public education systems in the world. unfortunately, while this is happening too many are blinded by their ideology to see the bigger picture. pity.

There you are taxed out. Charter schools are not necessarily private, they are very much publicly funded. Watch a movie called “Waiting for Superman” and get back to me with your new prospective on public education. Teachers actually held accountable for what their students learn! What a novel idea!

After reading the above post cougs78, you get anything that supports your view?

Come on cougs78 you are grasping at straws, clearly the above post spells out huge problems with Charter schools in place of public education. Just because Charter schools are funded publicly, does not make them public schools cougs78.

Tell me cougs, how would you pay merit pay when you have a charter school where there are 30 kids in the class and 17 are special needs like in the above post example. Then compared to another charter school where there are 22 kids and absolutely no special needs kids cause mommy and daddy pay a little extra at this school. Where this school gets a little more money from the students rich parents in addition to the government voucher so they can reduce class size and pick and choose class composition.

Tell me cougs78 how your novel idea would play out?
What kind of measuring stick would you use? Would you use identical tests?
Would identical tests steer the teachers to teach only to the test?
Would we then fire whole teaching staffs at undesirable schools?
Or would we put resourses into schools that need help in order to get their undesirable kids to the measure you like? Would you pay more taxes cougs78 to get those schools up to the measurement you like?
Would you pay more taxes to make sure that Charter schools were able to make a profit from public money?
If not cougs78, why would anyone want to open a Charter school if the taxpayer didn’t think it was allowed to make a profit?

Taxed, look up the definitions for “Common Sense” and “Good Judgement”, these may assist you. Try Blacks Law Dictionary.