No More Money For Roads But 30% Increase in Salaries For Council- Yes !!!
Wednesday, April 18, 2012 @ 3:45 AM
City Council did not vote to increase the amount of money they are putting into road rehabilitation at Monday night’s meeting of Council. The argument has been that the City is cutting back its spending.
However during the same meeting, City Councillors voted “unanimously” to give final reading and passage to the bylaw that will see them all get a 30% raise in pay.
So leading by example didn’t receive a much of an airing at the meeting Monday night.
Had those Councillors who feel that they must lead by example in the city, voted to scrap the raise and put those funds towards road rehab it would have at least sent some sort of a small message that they are trying. But they didn’t.
Speaking of the roads in the city, Shari Green says she met with the Premier and suggested that Prince George should receive some money for road rehabilitation. Really? The good Mayor might want to place a call to someone in the provincial government.
Municipal roads are just that the responsibility of the city, just as social housing and flood control are provincial responsibilities even though we in the city opted to do otherwise by first spending just shy of 1 million bucks for some air above a parking lot and then going for a further 3.5 million loan for the dike and a further 2.5 million for land acquisition.
If we feel that the province has been taking it to us, Council might want to look at what they have being doing with the city taxpayers’ money before blaming their wows on the province.
Councillor Skakun wants a 2 cent a litre levy on fuel, a new fuel tax and put the money to roads. Any taxpayer that can count to 10 will tell you that Council has blown more than enough to cover the road work.
Finally Councillor Stolz has his own idea of how to get the money for road rehab. Get together with other northern municipalities and ask for some of the resource revenue from the upcoming developments. For a member of the finance committee to suggest that he can tax a provincial resource leaves one, again, wondering.
This may be a novel approach but how about sitting down and finding some major savings so that the existing revenue can be used for road rehab?
We all will be waiting with baited breath to see if the core review says,” You are paying your council too much, roll the 30% salary increase back”. Did I hear a chuckle? No surprise.
I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s’ opinion.
Comments
Just to build on your article the council raise happened several months ago and I did not support it. We did not vote ourselves a raise Monday night as per your article.
Brian Skakun
Does that mean the “Puppy Police” already get a raise too?!! I do know one thing- the pot holes are 30% larger this spring. That’s it- Council puts motion forward to base their pay raises on the average size increase of the potholes the cover G.G. streets every spring! Ha ha…………..Ya gotta laugh all this craziness at City Hall, otherwise, we’d all lynch em!!
So Brian, does the fact that you did not support the raise mean that you will not be cashing the check or was your vote an empty gesture?…….I thought so.
Stolz and Green are so far out to Lunch they can’t hear the Bell! Congratulations to those who voted these 2 in…….
Time for a rally
“However during the same meeting, City Councillors voted âunanimouslyâ to give final reading and passage to the bylaw that will see them all get a 30% raise in pay.”
“Just to build on your article the council raise happened several months ago and I did not support it. We did not vote ourselves a raise Monday night as per your article. Brian Skakun”
Yes, Brian, you DID! How did you vote on Monday? “Unanimously” means that there was not a single NO vote!
Had all of you voted against the increase the final passage of the bylaw would have been toast and you would NOT be getting a raise!
Playing with words doesn’t change the facts!
Be carefull “PrinceGeorge” you might be next on the chopping block to get a letter threatening “defamation of character” from these Nazi’s..
This makes me absolutely ill! I have lived in PG since 1993 and the roads have been absolutely disgusting the last few years. Do they have shares in alignment and tire shops or something?Get a clue council!!!!!
The threat of a suit for defamation against a resident critical of the city is an outrage. It is a fundamental violation of democratic rights. Should this go to court, the courts should rule that it is a violation of the Charter right of freedom of expression. We should demand that Council retract this letter and remove any councilor who votes against it.
I’m not a big supporter of the raise, but how much money did the 30% raise cost in real dollars?
If they gave the 30% back, it wouldn’t even cover the cost to mobilize the paving crew.
And yes, I’m waiting to hear if Mr. Skakun refused the raise he was against.
Here another thing I don’t get. Maybe someone can help me out.
People often complain that we don’t enforce our existing bylaws enough (I’ve even heard Mr. Meisner talk about that). Then, when the city comes out and essentially says that they will be doing just that by checking for dog licenses, people go ballistic. The City can’t win.
Councillor Skakun:
Let’s make this clear. On Monday night, the bylaw whch makes the raise official and clears the way for the extra money on your cheque, was up for fourth and final reading.
You could have voted against it. In fact, you made the motion that the bylaw be given fourth and final reading, and voted in favour of it, as did all others. The article clearly states “City Councillors voted âunanimouslyâ to give final reading and passage to the bylaw that will see them all get a 30% raise in pay.”
You had a chance to say no, you didn’t.
Ben Meisner
There are ppop and scoop bylaws and there are dogs on leash bylaws just to talk about dogs.
They enforce neither of those two. Go to Cottonwood Island park and they could make several thousand bucks a day. Not forever of course, since eventually people would leash their dogs and pick up after their dogs. However, they simply will not do it.
Same with Ginter, Moores Meadow, etc. Even in the new fenced dog park there are some who do not pick up afer their dogs.
Why no comments section re the SLAPP suit?
To bskakun,
It was easy and popular to vote no to the initial raise in pay when you know everyone else will be voting yes anyway. That is what I call a win-win situation if ever I had seen one!
Kudos to your ability to play the game.
Johnnybelt: You are correct. The actual monetary value of the raise might not be enough to mobilise even one pot hole crew. Its the principal of the matter. No money for roads. No money for teachers or nurses or paramedics. Cutbacks in all areas for the common workers….
However….when it comes to lining their own pockets with our hard earned dollars, politicians always say YES!!!
“There are ppop and scoop bylaws and there are dogs on leash bylaws just to talk about dogs.
They enforce neither of those two.”
Agreed. However, it is much easier logistically to go to someone’s address than enforce a leash or poop and scoop infraction.
Bylaws: “Sir, your dog isn’t on a leash, I’ll have to give you a ticket. What’s your name?”
Dogowner: “Uhh… John Smith”.
JohnnyBelt
The fact that they are going door to door and looking for “other signs” that a dog is at a residence is further evidence that they are running out of ideas and are acting out of desperation.
They also have to abide by the community charter and either give notice or get permission to come on the property before they can even knock. Destined for failure before even leaving the starting gate.
lonesome: “The fact that they are going door to door and looking for “other signs” that a dog is at a residence is further evidence that they are running out of ideas and are acting out of desperation. “
Either that, or they’re reacting to the people who say we should be enforcing the existing bylaws on the books.
People might not like that the City has chosen the entitled self-indulgent dog owners in town, but that’s the way it is.
We need to look at the big picture when it comes to repairing our roads.
Firstly I suppose the question is?? Do our Mayor and Councillors have the **Moxie** to solve these problems. We should keep in mind that Councillor Krause has been around 20 years or so, and Skakun for the past 10 years. They have (or should have) all the information that got us into this jam.
Lets keep our focus on road repairs, and this is a serious problem. What can we do about it.
What do we know??
1. We know that Council budgets $3.5 Million each year for piddly repairs to a major problem.
2. We know that by 2020 we will have a legacy of $24 Million in the Terasen Gas Lease in Lease out agreement.
3. We know that there are millions of dollars from the sale of BC Rail in the Northern Development Trust that we could or should be able to access, at a very low interest rate.
4. We know through past experience that we can borrow money from the Municipal Lending Authority at a very low interest rate.
5. We know that an increase in taxes, or a gas tax, is not acceptable, and will not be tolerated.
So what is the solution.??
Borrow $75 Million dollars more or less, from either the Northern Initiative Trust, the Municipal Lending Authority, or a combination of both.
Payment on the loan can be made with the $3.5 Million presently being budgeted roads. We can also use the money in the Terasen Gas fund to help with the payments, or pay of the balance of the loan in a lump sum when the $24 Million from the Terasen Gas Legacy Fund is complete in 2020.
Any shortfalls on the payment to the Municipal Lending Authority can be made up from the surplus from the gaming funds, or from the RCMP ticket collection money.
Its up to the Mayor and Council to look into the actual borrowing and pay back of this money. However I think most people would agree that the best legacy we can get from the Terasen Gas Legacy Fund would be excellent roads in the Prince George area. By using some combination of this idea, we could immediately start repairing roads, and have 10 years repairs done in two years. Lets think big, and get this bloody job done.
A smart finance committee could figure out not only how to access this money, but also how to have it all paid back within 10 years, without any increases in taxes.
Lets not sweat the small stuff and solve this bloody problem once and for all.
PS. Any monies borrowed and spent would have to be audited by an independent body to ensure that we get value for our dollars. In addition once the Municipal Auditor comes on board, we would have to ensure that he keeps his eye on costs.
Have a nice day.
Easy job politician, raise taxes to cover your pet projects, but not wanting these taxes taken out of your own pocket, vote yourself a raise and add in a bonus. Oh lack of conscience is a must need trait.
Brian the more you talk the farther you put your foot in your mouth. It’s time for you to resign.
I heard that Fox wants to film PG council meetings and broadcast them on prime time. Stay tuned for the “New Gong Show”.
Someone asks about a dog in my yard I will say I’m looking after it while a friend is away. Does it have a license? I don’t know it’s not my dog.
NoWay: “Someone asks about a dog in my yard I will say I’m looking after it while a friend is away. Does it have a license? I don’t know it’s not my dog. “
Not your dog? Well, I’m sure you won’t mind if we (bylaws) impound it then?
Lest we forget… Shari Green said this two weeks before the election:
“I will challenge our staff to find cost savings in every department”
For 17 bucks an hour I doubt this puppy patrol will be going all Steven Segal on pet owners.
At best how much is going to be raised? Enough to cover Brian Skakun’s raise-even though he voted against it but he needs the money as he has two faces to shave every morning.
For the record here is the exact transcript of what Councillor Skakun said at the May 30th meeting
On May 30th 2011, Council received the report from the Council remuneration Committee here are Councillor Brian Skakun’s comments on the recommendations:
âI would like to thank the group as well for the work theyâve done and um I do feel that we are underpaid at Council your worship and Iâm really challenged with this issue because ah, if you look at public and private sector wage increases, ah, you know, youâre lucky to hit 3% a year. Weâre asking for a lot more than that, and I know we are behind. I think uhm, you know, if there is going to be an increase to Council of this magnitude it should be incremental. Uh, an increase of this size right off the bat is going to be tough to swallow for a lot of people in the community especially you know when weâve had uhm larger tax increases, utility increases and what not. And uh, people wonât be supportive of this and they donât necessarily have to be supportive itâs our decision, but uhm at this point I will not support a big lump sum increase like that. Perhaps we could ah look at incremental uh increases your worship and uhm, Iâm just going to leave it at that for now. I appreciate the work the committeeâs done, I donât feel we get paid enough but at this point, you know, in the ahh, in our debate if you will, I think it is too much and I wonât support it.â
So while Councillor Skakun voted against the initial recommendation in the report, his comments make it very clear that he supports a raise, just not one that was 30%.
Here’s an idea. City in need of dough? Why not vote out the hydrofluorocilicic acid HFSA, (a documented poison)in our tap water?
(1) Residents health would improve, by getting rid of our present water system of water fluoridation, and using the natural aquifers in the water,
(2) according to city councillors’own
estimates, the cost of our present water fouoridation is between $150,000 and $200,000 per year! By voting it out, which they have the power to do, they could then argue how best to save that tidy bundle!
But the most important thing is that the health of every man, woman, child, and infant in our fair city would improve exponencially!
NEW BLUE you are barking up the wrong tree. Look at Calgary. They took the fluoride out of their water and now have an epidemic of cavities in small children. I don’t think the people of Calgary changed their lifestyles that much that they are neglecting their children’s health. Obviously the fluoride was helping, but there are a few posters on here that only see their own viewpoint.
From the looks of that transcript that Mr. Meisner provided, it seems that somebody ( Mr. Skaun ) should be uh, uhm, ah, enrolled in Toastmasters………..
;) ;) ;)
metalman.
Hi, duffer,
Don’t know what your source of info is, but since Calgary opted out only last year, dental fluorosis accumulates over time. Too much fluoride in the water is identified as dental fluorosis. Even at 0.7 ppm (parts per million) (the present concentration of P.G. water) is too high.
When there is damage to the teeth, there is certain to be systemic damage inside the body: “The teeth are the windows of the body.”
Fluoridation causes such diseases as osteosarcoma (fatal bone cancer), weakened bones, thyroid dysfunction, brain damage,
uptake of lead in the body, etc.
Dr. Ludwig Grosse, Chief of Cancer Research, U.S. Veterans Administration says:
“The plain fact that fluorine is an insidious poison, harmful, toxic and cumulative in its effects, even when ingested in minimal amounts, will remain unchanged no matter how many times it will be repeated in print that fluoridation of the water. supply is safe.”
The experts have spoken!
Duffer: “They took the fluoride out of their water and now have an epidemic of cavities in small children. “
It is you who is barking up the wrong tree!
You are of course totally mistaken! There
has never been a recorded increase or epidemic(!) in cavities in ANY municipality which ceased water fluoridation! There is no record of that in Calgary, just a lot of hype by uninformed agitators.
People who are arguing for the last 3% of fluoridated towns in B.C. to stop fluoridation with hydrofluorosilicic acid are attempting to join the 97% of the province of B.C. which either never fluoridated or which has stopped the practice.
The evidence of harm has been available for along time. Pharmacies are selling fluoride FREE toothpaste for children, baby formula is never to be prepared wiht fluoridated water and the contamination of chemical fluoride with a number of nasty poisons is also a irrefutable fact!
Shooting from the hip on this subject without any real knowledge is nothing but public mischief!
BTW, nobody wants to restrict the choice of people to have fluoridated toothpaste, fluoride supplement pills or fluoride varnish treatments at the dentist!
If you are a dentist or if you work in the dental profession, relax! You are still going to have a lot of business applying varnish and a lot of business dealing with all the cavities in children and adults – whow, in spite of living in a long-time fluoridated area (such as Pr. Rupert, Terrace, Fort St. John and Prince George) end up in droves in the dentist’s chair!
They don’t floss and they don’t brush their teeth regularly! It has zero to do with fluoridation of water!
DRINKING hydrofluorosilicic acid does NOTHING for the surface of the teeth!
Too much fluoride will give you fluorosis of the teeth – more work for the dentist!
Just like people who can choose whether to consume fluoride or not – I want to have the freedom to have clean non-medicated water coming from my tap! I also do not wish to have hydrofluorosilicic acid in the water I shower with!
Medicating drinking water is unethical and undemocratic besides being harmful to peoples’ health!
Medicating a whole population via drinking water is illegal according to the Nuremberg Protocol, which Canada signed.
You are Wrong duffer! About Calgary. What
you`re saying is RUBBISH!!! All the contrary, the population of Calgary is much
better off without the fluoride poison in their water supply. I suggest to you, to get some information, to get educated before you make false remarks.
By the way, duffer, the City of Vancouver
and the City of Victoria, have never had
any artificially fluoridated water. Does that mean that all the population that live
in Vancouver and Victoria have rotten teeth? I do not think so!!!
Way to go duffer. Look what you started. Don’t get the handful of anti-flouride people riled up.
;-)
“Pediatric tooth decay called epidemic”
As per the CBC:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2012/04/02/calgary-dental-pediatric-tooth-decay.html
“Dental public health officer for Alberta Health Services, Dr. Luke Schwart, said tooth decay is a multi-faceted disease.
But Calgaryâs decision last year to stop adding fluoride to tap water is certain to make a growing problem worse, Schwart added.”
I guess some “expert” from the good old U.S. of A. knows more than our dentists in Canada. Take a poll of the dentists here in P.G. and find out what their take on the situation is. It’s O.K. you wouldn’t believe them anyway with your closed minds.
You might wonder why Gerber’Baby Foods have recently put on the market: Baby’s NON-FLUORIDATED water, put up in baby-size, glass bottles, just right for baby to drink.
Do you think there might be a reason?? A huge company like Gerber’s is no way going to do any investing without a good look at what’s happening in baby’s world. Many, many doctors and specialists, including Dr. Hardy Limeback, DDS. Ph D, Preventive Dentristry, U. of Toronto have warned, since 2006,that parents should never mix baby formula with fluoridated water. Why? Because the baby’s Blood Brain Barrier (BBB)is undeveloped, so that over time the baby’s brain becomes over-stimulated, which can contribute to lowered IQ points and mental retardation. Once an individual loses precious IQ points, there is no cure, EVER!
NEW: “You might wonder why Gerber’Baby Foods have recently put on the market: Baby’s NON-FLUORIDATED water”
Maybe to increase their market share of the needlessly paranoid.
What. Super Brian caught in a lie, say it isn’t so.
Lol
Between this and the gas tax proposal, he’s lost any sympathy or support he would have gotten from me.
Stop relying on just tax money!
Make money from entrepreneurial ventures / cost savings ventures.
Install solar panels and make money when it’s cloudy. Install low-profile circular wind turbines & make money when it’s windy.
Infrastructure can make money. It costs money to make money, so go in with the feds & province.
Case in point — hydro.
Think like a corporation for once and stop bleeding tax payers. How can the city make money?
Get outside the box …
The heat-sharing venture with industry was only the start. Go bigger
rename PG to Pothole City, we are Number 1.
If I had my Way I would stop all Project even the once in Planing, let the Feds find Money for the CopShop, lets the Art Lovers build there own new Place with there own Money, sell all Real Estate the City owns and have only one Focus “Fix the Roads” if all Roads are fixed save Money for the Future!
Make all Elected Position unpaid (Volunteers may only apply ) this is not a Place to enrich yourself, if you can’t don’t run for it!
The city is going after taxpayers that don’t licence their dogs but will do nothing about illegally parked, (in residential neighbourhoods) heavy trucks. Heavy trucks that beat the crap out of taxpayers roads. Do the owners of these heavy trucks pay extra taxes for the privilege of destroying our roads for the rest of us?
Its pretty hard for the city to make money Savvvy, when they hand out taxpayers money to business and their friends and keep shafting the people to pay for their crap!
JohnnyB:”…. But Calgaryâs decision last year to stop adding fluoride to tap water is certain to make a growing problem worse, Schwart added.”
No! It will not! Better dental hygiene (I am sure the good Dr. Schwart knows that the lack of it is the real problem!) like twice daily brushing and flossing is the most important aspect of preventing dental problems.
Parents and schools have a responsibility to teach their children. Municipalities would do society a big favour if they would use the money now spent on fluoridation and instead fund public teaching sessions on dental hygiene!
Germany was a divided country for several decades. In West Germany fluoridation was banned whereas in the Communist East Germany it was implemented for everyone right after the wall went up and it continued until 1989. When Germany was re-united fluoridation was discontinued in the former East Germany in order to make the whole country the same. Now, twenty years later after discontinuation statistics show that dental health improved and cavities DECREASED in that East German population until it reached the level of the West German population!!!
In Europe – almost ALL of it – fluoride has been banned for many decades. Dental health has increased year after year. Cavities continue to decrease as people learn to take better care of their teeth.
However, facts like this don’t impress those who want to force this chemical effluent fluoride down the throats of defenseless victims.
Thank you for giving me an opportunity to widen your understanding of this matter!
Maybe getting around our “puppy police” will become a parallel when it comes to the folks in 604 evading Skytrain fares.
My feelings on the whole road ( well not whole roads – ’cause they are full of holes ) and our taxes is simple. Our tax money has gone to many pet projects which we can’t afford. When councillors say that there is no more money for roads, that’s not true. They are simply not allocating it to the roads – they are making that choice not to provide full funding just as they have chosen to proceed w/ projects like the diking of River Road.
As to the puppy police, they have existed in the past. When our 13 + year old dog died a few year ago and we didn’t renew his license, we had from the city someone come to the door to enquire why we didn’t . We couldn’t believe it.
Brian where are you now ????
flowermum…Did they take your word for it or did you have to provide a “death certificate”?
Having some people checking out dog licenses etc, is better than having none. As long as people feel they could get caught, they might do the right thing.
Lets remember that the part timers are a result of getting rid of the full timers, so there is a savings there.
I agree with flowermum, its not a question of a shortage of money, its a question of allotment.
oh oh someone turned over the rock and the anti-flouride freaks are free again. And Freaks they are. Get a life and find another tree to bark on. You probabably have sold science that God exists and that the Earth is flat.
ahem “solid science.”
New Scientific Data Forces Government to Reverse Its Stance on Fluoride in the Water Supply
March 6, 2012
http://www.anh-usa.org/new-scientific-data-forces-government-to-reverse-its-stance-on-fluoride-in-the-water-supply/
I think its a very serious issue. I look forward to living in a city someday soon that doesn’t put floride (poison) in my drinking water.
What was this all about again?
It’s a veritable rabbit trail it is.
metalman.
PG (re fluoride): “Thank you for giving me an opportunity to widen your understanding of this matter! “
I knew you couldn’t resist responding yet again. You’re too easy.
Hmm… do I listen to most dental and health care professionals or anonymous people on blog sites. Hmm… tough call.
Eagleone:”I think its a very serious issue. I look forward to living in a city someday soon that doesn’t put floride (poison) in my drinking water.”
Only Terrace, Fort St. John and Prince George are still forcing city residents to accept having this poison delivered with their tap water! 4.3 million BC residents do NOT have this polluted chemical fluoride in their water – us unlucky 2% (about 100 thousand) are stuck with it!
It is a very serious matter of equal treatment for all and no more discrimination against a small minority, in my opinion.
Thanks for the link!
“Today the fluoride in your water mostly comes from the phosphate fertilizer industry â but itâs still toxic waste, containing other byproducts such as arsenic, lead, cadmium, and mercury. And two studies show that fluoride increases the accumulation of lead in bone, teeth, and other calcium-rich tissues, transporting heavy metals into areas of your body they normally would not be able to goâlike your brain.’
As scientific research keeps confirming that long term consumption is indeed harmful to human health the recommended dosage for water medication with hydrofluorosilicic acid is being steadily reduced, although only a concentration of 0.000000 ppm is actually safe.
That means no more fluoridation! So why not act with precaution and shut it off right now for the remaining 2% of the population of B.C.?
A question for the anti fluoride camp:
Does reverse osmosis filtration remove the fluoride from the water?
metalman.
Yes, most of it! The best and most expensive method is steam distillation. Both methods also remove all beneficial minerals found naturally in the water and the water becomes somewhat acidic. When a person consumes acidic water over longer periods of time the body attempts to balance the ph by transferring calcium from the bones. This may lead to osteoporosis, otherwise known as brittle bones.
In fact our PG water from clear deep aquifer is of a very high quality, much better than most bottled waters. Then, of course we spoil it all with industrial effluent fluoride!
Ipso ergo it does NOT make any sense at all to use it as a vehicle for mass medication of the public.
Unless you buy a very expensive whole house filter system (the expensive filters must be replaced twice a year) you will STILL be showering with the fluoridated water – the skin, being the largest organ of the human body will absorb a lot of the fluoride.
Users of reverse osmosis water are urged to take a daily multi-mineral supplement and eat foods high in calcium, like cruciferous vegetables.
Fluoridation is a real bummer!
Front page today (Thursday) The Citizen. Need a pot hole fixed in front of or near yer house? Just pop down to Northern Hardware and buy a can of same colour spray paint. Need I say more?
P.S. Pay cash.
I think shocking pink fluorescent glow-in-the-dark spray paint might work even better!
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