Ben, you will have to get some one else to deliver this message as Mayor Green isn’t talking to you.

Municipal politics being the closest to the people should most definitely have a recall option IMO.

The city needs to now get it and drop this project… if they want to continue with this project they should plan to fight for it with their slate during the next municipal election… where they can inform the voters whom they will be asking to pay for their ideas.

The disrespect for the democratic process needs to stop and the results of this AAP should be seen in that light by our municipal leaders.

A city employee told me the other day that the city brass is worried that if we say no to this grant money for the dike the next time they ask the senior levels of government will say no. He seemed baffled by my answer. I said “well, stop applying”.

Eagleone is right…we do need recall options for ALL levels of governmrnt.
But we need recall that has a hope of actually working.
Present recall options are useless.
They were designed by politicians to benefit politicians…they were never intended to work AGAINST a politician!
If recall legislation with some teeth in it were already in place,B.C.would be in a lot better shape right now!
The only power voters have is the ballot box,and it is the only thing politicians fear.
The rest of the time they thumb their self-serving noses at us.
They know they are bulletproof, for the most part.
Civic,provincial,and federal…it’s all the same…do as you are told and shut-up!
Governments don’t like it when they are questioned…even when they are dead wrong.
Suprisingly enough,they are dead wrong more often than we might think.
Taxpayers always pay the price for imcompedence… we do need a way to fight back.

Reminds me of the HST petition. Bet they just ignore it and go do the borrowing and project anyways. Why not? Nobody has said anything about how they ignored the people on the HST. Which by the way was organized by the same ERIC ALLEN and a superb job it was then too. So who wants to bet they ignore us again? Obviously this tactic works. We still pay the HST after it was defeated by about the same, if not more of a percentage of taxpayers. How about snooki ignoring the supreme court ruling recntly with the teachers? Next up will be this PAC so we can all go see balet. At least everyone is ready for that now and the volunteers are ready to do it all over again. They know WE THE PEOPLE will win that one too just as soon as it is announced. Probably won’t have to wait too long for thatto be announced. This idea is still there with these arts types. Folks of that ilk should pay for thier own PAC. Who in thier right mind would want to pay millions to have that? Or will it be some other expensive useless thing such as this PAC. Anyways it’s FANTASTIC that Eric and the volunteers told shari and cohorts that we will fight back.

“Suprisingly enough,they are dead wrong more often than we might think.”

True enough, Any!

They are dead wrong about fluoridation of our tap waster being beneficial and totally harmless:

April 25, 2012

“Recently, the (New Hampshire) Senate has taken up an issue that may actually benefit the general public – this time specifically, it’s regarding the mass medication that is omnipresent in everyone’s water supply, sodium fluoride. The largest state legislature in the US recently passed a bill that requires all water bills to warn parents with infants of the dangers revolving around fluoride and water fluoridation- but only associated with infancy and excluding just about everyone else, to no great surprise.”

This of course is of interest only to the residents of Terrace, Fort St. John and Prince George – they are the only ones left in B.C. which are being force fed this nasty fertilizer industry effluent in their tap water!

Agreed Prince George the elimination of flouride from our water will not only be good for us but if we look at it from the councils point of view it would save the city thousands of dollars each year.

I think that the fact the Government and our local MLA’s actually ignored the results of the HST referendum speaks volumes.

The people won the referendum, and deserved to have it recinded as soon as possible. The Government on the other hand, even though they lost, wanted to reap as many tax dollars as possible, and have big business and corporations get as much savings as possible out of the tax, so they kept it in effect until April 1st 2013.

The Government is hiding behind the mantra that it takes time to re-instate this tax. Who beleives that story?? Try no one.

Our local MLA’s have not said one word about the extended time it is taking to get rid of this tax. In addition they were full supporters of the HST. So the question is. Who do they represent??? Obviously not the tax payers.

The HST was the first volley across the bow of Governments who have no initiative except mindless taxing and spending.

The AAP (in a small way) is the second volley, stating that tax increases are no longer a solution to solving problems. Fiscal responsibility, and holding the line on expenses are what is needed along with a huge downsizing of useless Government projects, that serve no purpose.

What is the third and last volley??. Will it be a huge tax protest?? Will people join to-gether and refuse to pay their taxes without some gaurantee that they will get some useful benefits for their money?? Who knows.

What is certain is that we cannot continue down the road we are on, or we will end up the same as some European Countries. **Dead Broke**

Its time for our Politicians to become leaders, and do the right thing. Do they have the **Moxie**? You tell me.

Have a nice day.

The City needs to be spending less money on these crazy white elephant projects until they’ve got the roads fixed.

“The City needs to be spending less money on these crazy white elephant projects until they’ve got the roads fixed.”

The city needs to be spending less money period. They need to seriously reduce the number of people on the payroll and start contracting out their services. There are too many people doing to little while sucking at the taxpayer’s teat. The current system is not sustainable.

You’ve nailed it, Faxman.

Fixing roads is seasonal work. If you try to do it with your own employees, what are they going to do all winter?

The City should be contracting road repair out so that they can hit it hard in the spring with a few hundred workers, but not have to have those workers on payroll all winter long.

A bit of competition isn’t a bad thing either. Having two contractors and giving them each a portion of the City roads to look after wouldn’t be a bad idea either.

Lets see…..fire a bunch of people that work for the taxpayers and are funded by the taxpayers and pay private business to do their jobs.

Thats spending less money how faxman?

“That’s spending less money how”

Three words….no layoff clause

“Lets see…..fire a bunch of people that work for the taxpayers and are funded by the taxpayers and pay private business to do their jobs.

Thats spending less money how faxman?”

Quite simply, private enterprise will not require that for every person working there are at least two people standing around breast feeding their shovels watching the worker.

Prince George could take a page from the city of Phoenix, ALL city work is put up for bid and the civic workers have to put in a competitive bid to receive work, I don’t think their shovels come with a built in chin rest:-)

The difference between in-house workers and contract workers is that with in-house workers you have to pay them all year long.

With contract workers working on the roads, you only pay them during road repair season. In this country, that’s a big saving and that means more money for fixing roads.

Littlebuds:”…the elimination of fluoride from our water will not only be good for us but if we look at it from the councils point of view it would save the city thousands of dollars each year.”

At least one hundred thousand dollars a year IF NOTHING breaks down! A whole lot more if work needs to be done when parts need to be replaced.

Nothing lasts forever, not even stubborn attitudes which keep us from getting what 98% of B.C. citizens are already enjoying:

Unadulterated, unmedicated and natural fluoride addition FREE tap water!

Way to go citizens of Prince George. Thank you for signing the petition! That money should be spent on roads.

As for the HST, I believe it is a very different issue than the dike project. The HST was good for business and when businesses are thriving, that’s good for us all (in terms of economics).

middle finger wrote: “A city employee told me the other day that the city brass is worried that if we say no to this grant money for the dike the next time they ask the senior levels of government will say no. He seemed baffled by my answer. I said “well, stop applying”.”

To me it is very simple. Here is how it should work, using the dike as an example:

1. Develop a plan to address the flooding “problem” in this community including risk assessment and several mitigating options.

2. Present the options which will deal with changing land use, as the current recommendations do, and substantial expenditures over several years, as the current recommendations do, to the people in the community.

3. Hold public hearings, even though they may not be required (the city has to get away from the excuse of “we do not have to do that” and give “best practices” a bit more consideration)

4. summarize the outcome and come up with one or two short term and long range proposals, including a do nothing proposal if that is a legal option.

5. Take it to a referendum.

If there is anyone who does not think it can be taken to a referendum, then the selection of which future projects the people in PG would like to see – civic centre, swimming pool, arena, art gallery, PAC – should never have gone to a referendum.

The City needs to learn how to work with the people who have elected them and pay their salaries. Take a few weeks off and go back to public administration and governance school.

Be leaders, not followers.

“when businesses are thriving, that’s good for us all”

Who says? Why has the gap between rich and poor been widening if thriving businesses are good for all of us?

Maybe businesses have not been thriving and therefore they cannot share the wealth?

I mean, if businesses get any more breaks, we will all be working for nothing.

http://www.notimetokill.org/images/cartoon_ch_26_v2.gif

The dike proposal is wrong on so many levels that it leaves one reeling.

1. At best the dike will slow down seepage. It will not stop it.

2. If we slow down the seepage that would normally go to the South East of River Road, then where would the water go??

3. Seems to me that this dike proposal is a result of the City making application for a grant. Problem is the City has to put up over 6.25 Million plus interest as their portion of the overall cost.

4. Considering that flood control is the responsibility of the Provincial and Federal Governments why are we getting into this game??? With the possibility of a flood of the magnitude of the 2007/2008 flood happening once every 90 years or so, I would suggest we have an extreme case of over reacting.

5. Along with the dike comes the cost of maintenance and of course the liability. Do we really want to get into the flood mitigation game?? Lets leave that responsibility where it belongs.

6. Its much like Municipal Governments going to conferences around the world and discussing trade and business issues. This is not their responsibility. There job is to look after the Citys needs, ie; infrastructure etc; We have other levels of Government to work on the World stage.

7. If the City would get back to basics there would be no need to continue this dialogue about a dike. Putting it succinctly its a waste of time and money.

8. The City should have to make public all thier applications for grants for various projects, so that the public is aware of what they are applying for and how much it will cost the taxpayer if the grant application is successful.

9. As an example. How much City money and Initiative PG money has been spent so far on the proposal for a Performing Arts Centre. I suspect that it is in access of $200,000.00 and we have no clue as to what the ultimate cost will be to taxpayers. At what point will they let us know how much we are going to pay out??

10. If the City and PAC Society have plans to build this PAC under the Private, Public Partnership concept, I suggest that we need to know this sooner rather than later. If they run true to form we will get some disjointed numbers that would lead one to beleive that the project is viable, and then after it is built we will be hit with the true costs. Much like the Northern Sports Centre.

11. Its been five years since the 2007/2008 flood. We have not yet seen how the upgrade to River Road would work, because we have not had any high water, or ice jams. So why the panic?? Is it all about spending money?? I think so.

Palopu writes:

“The dike proposal is wrong on so many levels that it leaves one reeling.

1. If designed properly then the water that seeps underground will have to pass a “chamber” where it will collected and be mechanically extracted and pumped back into the river. It is a standard method of taking care of seepage. It is not an untried technique.

2. Back into the river.

3. The dike proposal comes from the consultant report of recommendations of how to mitigate the flood.

I agree the city should not have to put up a singel penny. I suspect they may have to becasue they get a new road out of it. If the dike was just a dike they may not have to pay anything.

4. You do not understand the once in every 90 years or so situation. Its a probability. Just because it happened 3 years ago, does not mean it will not happen again next year. On top of that, the ice jam flood never reached the magnitude of the 200 year flood plain in the first place The ice jam is likely a much more frequent occurance.

5. The dike will reduce the liability of the city and the other governments and the resultant need to compensate for damage.

6. If you do not think that the role of city governments includes being aware of trade and business issues, then you are a ludite. The city needs to provide infrastructure if it is to have businesses move here.

7. The City does need to get back to basics, but the “basics” these days includes much mnore than it used to 50 years ago. Things do not stay the same.

8. Now there is the first point which I agree with 100% and I have previously written that. In fact, any senior government should require proof that such has been done in any application and, in some cases, they do.

9. Go to http://www.pgperformingarts.ca/downloads.html
download the two reports from 2008 and read them. They have been on that web site open to public view for over 3 years. The same with the report on flood mitigation. Read, try to understand, and if you don’t understand, ask questions. It is a normal process some of us go through.

11. It is 4 1/4 years since the January 2008 ice jam. No flood since then. Why the panic? Gee, if you do not understand risk management, I am sorry, but I cannot help you.

Palopu, you have this crazy notion about spendng money. Everything with you is about spending money, That is the reason why things are done …. to spend money …. do you have some sort of phobia?

Things ought to be done, and yes they cost money …… that is the sequence, plain and simple.

Prince George, British Columbia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Water quality

Drinking water in Prince George is recognized throughout British Columbia as among the top quality drinking water in municipal systems. Samples from Prince George taps are used as a comparison for other cities because of the quality of the pristine aquifers. Adding fluoride to pristine water is a controversial issue in Prince George, especially when many communities such as Kitimat and Ft. St. John stopped adding it to their water supplies. Only three communities in B.C. still use fluoride in their water supply

Gus, you’re smoking something if you think you can pump the ground water down all along the river. It’s not happening. Not with gravel.

Do you any idea how much pump capacity you would need? It’s huge. Think about the well where we get the City water from. It’s one of the largest wells in the world. It has a massive pump and it doesn’t lower the ground water in the area by even one inch.

If there is going to be an expense of a referendum, why not put at least one other question on the ballot?

How about “do you want the City to stop adding fluoride to the city water supply?”

Perhaps a politically astute councillor can make a motion for this.

Noone will listen to you, Ben until you actually have your name on the ballot. There is only so much to be done from the sidelines and weeping from the gallery gets nothing accomplished.

That container terminal should be in the old B.C.R. site and the C.N.R. site put to better use. Building dikes when a perfectly sound option downriver is insanity.

NDP all the way, hey Gus?! I like some of your ideas on various things but not your political bent :P

Littlebuds:”Drinking water in Prince George is recognized throughout British Columbia as among the top quality drinking water in municipal systems. Samples from Prince George taps are used as a comparison for other cities because of the quality of the pristine aquifers. Adding fluoride to pristine water is a controversial issue in Prince George, especially when many communities such as Kitimat and Ft. St. John stopped adding it to their water supplies. Only three communities in B.C. still use fluoride in their water supply.”

Fort St. John announced that it would stop fluoridation, but was talked into continuing the practice! The three remaining towns in B.C. (making up 2% of the total population) are Fort St. John, Terrace and Prince George!

It is an inexcusable method of mass medication and it spoils the pristine quality of the water coming from the aquifers. Hydrofluorosilicic acid is used for municipal fluoridation. It is an effluent waste scrubber product and it contains a host of dangerous contaminants.

Lately it has also almost doubled in price
and it is trucked in as a hazardous chemical transport.

More than 1,600 eminent research scientists and dentists are publicly demanding that water fluoridation be halted everywhere because of recent studies showing effects on human health.

It is also suspected to be a mutagen because of its aggressive effect on human cells. A mutagen is a substance which causes spontaneous cell mutations, some of which may lead to cancer.

According to World Health Organization Data (2004) there is NO difference between tooth decay in 12 year olds between countries which fluoridate and countries which do NOT!

Data gathered from 1965 to 2004.

After watch this Stolz guy on the CKPG news it is very apparent he just does not get it. What part is hard for him to understand people don’t want their tax dollars spent on a dike?

I think with 9300 votes, give or take, a referendum on the matter would be another huge waste of taxpayers money. The message should be clear to them.

“Perhaps a politically astute councillor can make a motion for this.”

This is not Prince Rupert. This is PG. We have none of those here. ;-)

Icicle wrote:
“Do you any idea how much pump capacity you would need?”

Yes, as much as has b een calculatted by the hydrologists and engineers who designed the system. Cutoff “walls” are relatively common as is the technique of designing them.

“Think about the well where we get the City water from. It’s one of the largest wells in the world. It has a massive pump and it doesn’t lower the ground water in the area by even one inch.”

Interesting …. so why does the report say otherwise …

From the report.
“the estimated drawdown related to the proposed Fishtrap Island Collector Well in the area of the private well is only 0.2 m to 0.3 m.”

That makes it 8″ to 12″ some distance away from the City well.

http://www.ceaa.gc.ca/Content/1/0/8/10891D02-839C-4BD5-BAAF-612A95DE434D/report_e.pdf

You can look at Table 9.1 to see the yields from the aquifer tests. The drawdowns varied from 0.53 metres to 18.5 metres. Of 15 tested, only 3 had drawdowns of less than 1 metre.

So tell me, you smokin’ somethin’ icicle. ;-)

http://www.civil.bilfinger.com/C1257130005050D5/vwContentByKey/W277LKFW662WEBBEN/$FILE/Cut-Off%20Wall%20Monheim.pdf

The Rhine River is on a similar pervious soil layer as the Nechako and Fraser. The link is to a common method of building cutoff walls using clay soil to add a relatively impervious barrier.

We are not unique in the world. I realize, many think we are, but they are wrong. :-)

Its a provincial and federal responsibility and they should be funding a dyke 100%.

The home owners in the hart and college heights should not be paying for risk management for CN Rail and other businesses that bought cheep land in a 200-year flood plain.