Lessons To Be Learned From A Leaf
The 100-percent electric Nissan Leaf to be shared by the City of PG, UNBC, Northern Health, and the Regional District of Fraser-Fort George
Prince George, BC – It takes a shift in thinking, sliding behind the wheel of an electric car…
For one thing, says the City’s Supervisor of Fleet Programs, Terry Hawkes, there is no gas gauge – instead, a monitor indicates how many kilometres remain available before it’s time to re-charge the battery.
Another pointed out by Prince George Mayor Shari Green at the Nissan Leaf’s ‘roll out’ on Friday afternoon – there’s no engine, so it will never see a drop of gasoline. "Because their’s no engine and no transmission," says Hawkes, "All those fluid checks are non-existant on this one. We’ll still see it for our safety inspections, but there’s no servicing of the engine, there isn’t any drivetrain." The car has zero emissions and is projected to cost approximately $2700 less per year to run than a comparable gasoline vehicle.
The City purchased the $44-thousand dollar vehicle and four charging stations using a $5000 incentive from the provincial government and full funding from a federal gas tax fund aimed at helping communities go green. The vehicle is to be shared by the City, UNBC, Northern Health, and the Regional District of Fraser-Fort George – each organization has the vehicle for a three-month period every year, while they all share operating and maintenance costs.
All are eager to see how the Leaf performs and whether it could help them meet strategic commitments to reduce their carbon footprints. "Part of this program is to test it," says Hawkes. "What we’re looking to do (at the City) is to find a place in our organization where we can utilize it to the fullest."
"It’s like anything – if we don’t use, it’s not going to save us anything," the Fleet Programs Supervisor says. "So we think we have some great opportunities, for example, in our bylaw department where they can put just the right amount of miles on it – not too much to go over the charge, but not too little that it’s under-used."
The City is anxious to analyze how the car withstands our most severe winter conditions, so its three-month ‘ownership’ will run December through February. "We’ve also bought technology we’re going to put on the car to track everything – when it charges, how much charge was left when it charged, what our efficiency was in terms of how many kilometres it went. And we’re going to use that data to evaluate the car and see, again, how well it worked for us."
Comments
More correctly speaking, there is no engine.
There is, however, a motor, otherwise the thing would just stand there, batteries and all.
“Lessons to be learned from a Leaf”
what a waste of our money!
imagine if everyone drove a Leaf….all the auto mechanics would end up on EI and then have to retrain ……maybe to go into politics….or to be….just green.
“….. is projected to cost approximately $2700 less per year to run than a comparable gasoline vehicle.”
What does that mean? Fuel only? or all maintenance included?
How many kWh is required per 100 km versus a comparable sized car with a 2012 engine?
What is the cost for the electricity versus gasoline?
“Lessons to be learned from a Leaf”
Please, we want to learn, we do not want the car salesman’s version….. !!!!
“there is no gas gauge – instead, a monitor indicates how many kilometres remain available before it’s time to re-charge the battery”
My car has a digital visual display that tells me how many km I can continue to drive until my gas tank is empty based on my current drivng habits. It is the modern system.
“Lessons to be learned from a Leaf”
On a sunny day during the hight of summer, sure it works just dandy…. now try it on a miserable PG -30C day in January. Unless it’s using the batteries to make it toasty warm, no engine = no heat. The car’s chassis will never warm up enough and will be like driving a brick.
Apparently Nissan recommens: “avoid storing a vehicle in temperatures below â25 °C for over 7 days.”
So, if that was true, I would have to hae a garage to store my vehicle if I went away for more than a week during the winter.
“Lessons to be learned from a Leaf”
Apparently Nissan also recommends that in order to help maximize the lithium-ion batteryâs useful life and its ability to hold a charge:
“Allow the battery charge to go below 80% before charging”
That sounds like a logistics nightmare , especially with a pool car.
“Lessons to be learned from a Leaf”
Idiots rule
Is there a link anywhere to a breakdown of operating and carrying costs?? A $44,000 car isn’t what you’d consider inexpensive.
http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2011/01/second-drive-2011-nissan-leaf-going-out-on-a-limb.html
A 1.5 year old consumer report review which deals with winter driving. There may have been improvements since then.
“Lessons to be learned from a Leaf”
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/11/03/doe-calculates-the-cost-of-owning-a-car
Based on the above comparison of a plug-in hybrid against a gasoline equivalent car, the cost of operating is lower for the hybrid and the total cost of owning and operating the car is higher with the hybrid.
That is very dependent on the differential cost of electricity and gasolone, of course. I also assume that the cost of plug-ins and plug-in hybrids will go down in the future.
“Lessons to be learned from a Leaf”
For the time being, it is like moving from a horse drawn carriage that leaves horse manure on the path of travel to a horseless carriage that leaves unknown environmental impacts in its wake.
Just think, in Alberta and many other parts of the world, electricity is generated from fossil fuels or nuclear generating stations. Not everyone is as lucky as BC to have so much electricity generated by non-carbon producing renewable energy sources.
“Lessons to be learned from a Leaf”
Leaf……Edsel….
44k for a Car with no range, would you please pick me up at Bednesti at -30 before I freeze my B…. of. This Car may become a Fashion Statement for the Elite. Go buy a Prius if you have the need for a Electric Car (Hybrid) it will get you home if you have Gas in the Tank. I think the City of Prince George has better things to do than evaluate new Cars.
It’s not April 1st today ,or is it?
Who brags about getting fleeced $44,000 for a pos econobox???
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/leaf/37669/nissan-leaf-video-review
Too bad it is not a hybrid …. ;-)
Whatever happened to one step at a time? The real travesty, in my opinion, is that the City paid that much for this car that is still a test vehicle.
“Lessons to be learned from a Leaf”
In a very hypothetical situation supposing this Leaf gets T-boned by a rusty 1988 under insured Tempo would the driver call the tow truck or the Haz-Mat team from the fire department first? Tow truck compound equipped to deal with damaged battery matter? How much is the collision deductible cost?
I wonder how many press releases they will issue when they’re trading it in for 8 or 9 grand next year
Let’s talk about the $80,000+ fast charge station that they forgot to mention. The car will be completely useless without one as the onboard trickle charge takes 20 hours to charge the battery and the 240Volt option will charge the car in 7 hours. It won’t take long to burn up 100kM running around town so with a 240V charger they are going to be waiting to charge the darn thing more than actually driving it.
So does each group get their own $80,000 charging station or do they have to drive it back to the barn so they can get a quick charge?
The name alone should have been enough to have some second thoughts. In this part of the world a vast majority of leaves have curled up and turned brown by the 1st of October:P
“Who brags about getting fleeced $44,000 for a pos econobox???” The same group who paid a million for the air above a parking lot.
Saving $2700 a year it will only take about 30 years to pay off the fast charge station. How many 30 year old vehicles in the city’s fleet?
The Air in PG must have an effect on the City Counsel , it changes there Brain Waves into total confusion .
These are the people running running the city and UNBC, scary. At night a good portion of our electricty can be from coal fired plants in the states and Alberta. We could call the car coal fired.
Here is the next toy the good Mr.hawkes might want to play with on taxpayers money
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/05/16/hump-day-hilarity-chinas-wind-powered-car/
I always forget to plug my cell phone in, you think I could remember to recharge my car?
A blimp called Hindenberg, a ship called Titanic, a car called Leaf…
Oh the humanity
“you think I could remember to recharge my car”
Easy. When you come home and park your car at a time when 80+% of the charge is gone, the computerized system will prompt you to charge the car.
The magic of computerized control. :-)
Do I have permission to copy the posts on this site and mail them to Mayor and Council or would I be beaking a copyright law.
Whats the next lesson Gu?
Cheers
Yeah, and my phone beeps when it wants a charge. Not much help.
The biggest lesson I learned from a leaf? When it changes color then falls from the tree, winter is close.
Regarding this “Leaf” someone is “raking” in the cash…and it’s not the tax payers of Prince George.
“Lessons to be learned from a Leaf”
From what I’ve read , there are 6 charging stations installed for this project. I’m waiting for the day the Leaf is out of juice, blocking the Tim Hortons line up.
The Nissan Leaf – Analysis in Brief
Nissan Leaf
$44,000 City reported cost.
10,0004 charging stations (@$2,500)
-5,000government rebate
$49,000
Other Leaf data necessary for analysis:
34 kwh energy consumption per 160km
$0.10 est. cost per kwh
63%est. average daily utilization
100km per day average usage
23est. kwh charging per day
240days operated per year
24,000Annual km’s driven
$561 Est. annual operating costs
Honda Insight
$22,000 MSRP
Other Insight data:
$1.50 litre of gasoline for analysis
$0.04 estimated oil & maintenance cost/km
4.7litres/100km (city driving)
$1,692 Estimated annual fuel cost
960Est. oil & minor mtce
$2,652 Total annual operating costs
$27,000 Capital cost differential
2,091Operating cost differential
How many years would it take to break even on the capital costs?
2,091X = 27,000
12.91 years to break even
At this point, both cars would have 310,000 kms on them
My guess is that the Nissan will be on the scrap heap before it ever reaches
the break even point.
This is a very shallow analysis. It doesn’t include insurance differences or the cost
of replacing that huge battery, which under ideal conditions, not the kind it will
be utilized under last about 10 years. The cost of the battery is over $20k I’ve heard.
No likely to be replaced once dead.
I for one don’t want my money spent like this. Do you?
I want to know what these people were thinking, paying such a huge premium for this car? It’s a total sunk cost now, so it’s kind of moot, but this was completely irresponsible in my opinion. If they’re making financial decisions like this one they’re boasting about, I wonder what kind they’re making that they don’t talk about.
If your 4 charging stations Sine @2500.00 each are what they are installing then they aren’t going to get much use out of the car. The 2500.00 240v charging station charges the car in 7hours. They will spend more time charging it then driving it.
Sine, I like how you put the $5000 goverment rebate as a credit, as if it comes of the money tree, it is also a sign of wise goverment spending, I think the whole picture changes even more if one put the resale value of both cars at say four years in the picture, not sure how many would be interrested in a car that needs a $2500 plug in that is four years old and might need a pricy batterie soon
Can one hook up one of the charging stations to the chain link fence around the “Leafs compound” to keep the brats out?
” there isn’t any drivetrain.”
Oh, so it’s magic?
No electric motor?
No transmission?
No final drive/differential?
Perhaps this rather ugly vehicle utilizes an electric motor on each wheel
ala LeTourneau?
I could look it up, but I’m not inclined.
metalman.
Lol metalman!
Most will have to look up Letourneau. :)
“The 2500.00 240v charging station charges the car in 7hours. They will spend more time charging it then driving it.”
If it’s plugged in before midnight it will be fully charged and ‘raring’ to go at 7:00 AM. Not too shabby, actually, if it is used as a personal single user go the office and do some shopping city car.
However, driving to Quesnel and back would be a bit of a challenge, if not impossible unless one finds a way to keep busy there while waiting for hours for the Green light!
Winter driving will reduce the range dramatically. You have to keep those windows defrosted! So drive it for a three or four hours charge it for seven. Hell of a deal!
LeTourneau was a man of vision, and an unparalled innovator and entrepreneur.
To address some of the anticipated shortcomings of the Nissan Leaf:
A small, water cooled diesel engine mounted in the front trunk, would provide some battery charging capacity, and a source of heat and defrost for the cabin.
Fuel it with cooking oil. Paint it green.
metalman.
Well I did it copyed the 6 pages of comment on this site and mailed them off to Mayor and Council. Hoppe Ben dosent put me in jail for copyright infringement
Cheers
“A small, water cooled diesel engine mounted in the front trunk, would provide some battery charging capacity, and a source of heat and defrost for the cabin.
Fuel it with cooking oil. Paint it green.”
Chevy already has one it’s call the Volt. No the engine isn’t diesel but it kicks in automatically when the batteries get too low so that you aren’t stranded. The cool thing is the generator has enough output to not only charge the battery but keep you moving too. The Volt also charges in 4 hours at 240V instead of 7. If the city was going to blow some of our money on this experiment they should of chose the Volt. Yes it does qualify for the Governemt rebate.
Good try Retired 02 but council and the mayor doesn’t take the people who post here seriously as they can’t put a face to an alias. So as far as they are concerned we don’t exist.
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