All I have to say is WOW – how can they justify a nearly 5% pay increase for this position during a time when they are trying to save money. This just sends out totally the wrong signals to the general public.

Which consulting firm recommended hiring Mr. Bates?

First of all, I don’t think I would want to do the job of city manager for 200k, not worth it.

Secondly, Mr Bates did last 6 years. Thus he did his job, so I don’t think the consulting firm so do be blamed. 6 months yes.

A big waste of more of the taxpayers money. one for the wages paid for the guy who gets the job, and another for the people searchin, and last of all the over paid wages for the last guy who had the job, and don’t forget the big pay out for his years of service. it’s all a big game for these people who bounce from town to town during their careers.

I love all you armchair City Managers….

So tell me this;

-How much is “fair” for a salary for a city manager of PG’s size?? Looks like we are the lowest of the comparables so what do you want?? We could pay less but you will not get the saviour you’re looking for, you will get some inexperienced hack, or someone with even more baggage.
– How do you know he did a bad job?? City Council ultimately makes the decisons and it is the city manager’s job to implement them. The City Manager can reccomend a direction but Council makes the call. They also approve and set all policy and procedures for the City. If you have issues with the direction of the City there’s only one group to point a finger at.
– This council has a tight gag order on all staff so you wouldn’t even know if he was trying to change things. If he can’t speak and Council doesn’t like what he’s saying you’d never know what changes he’s trying to make.

The reality is this- If you want to cut cost, services come with it. When 85% of costs are tied to Union labor (and at least 10% tied to fixed expenses) and no Council has the balls to stand up to the Union there is zero room for wiggle. Unlike what you all think there is zero “padding” in municipal government budgets these days.

So reality check just what do you consider a fair union wage? I have a skill set, power engineer. If I am not compensated by industry standards I move on, same as so called professionals. Oil sands pay a lot more than what is offered here, and I am considering it, as I would get free transportation back and forth thrown in. Free enterprise at work.

Do you consider yourself fairly compensated?

The union contract must be fixed!! they have received 3% per year for the last 2 contracts…..thanks Dan Rogers. Thats 20% for the union staff compounding.

This has to end. Get a good City Manager, pay them what their are worth and run the city properly.

My hat is off to Shari Green for having the guts to deal with this problem head on.

Go Iron Lady!!

Go Iron Lady!!
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She is in over her head and dosent know if she is coming or going.
Cheers

I do not understand why Richmond was even on a comparable list.

1. the population is 3 times that of PG.
2. the growth rate is many times that of PG
3. the cost of living is considerably higher due to the housing costs.
4. Richmond has $1.8 billion in tangible capital assets vs PG’s of $576 million
5. Richmond has actual expenses of $313 million vs PG’s of $129 million

It is clear that the scope of the operation in PG is only one third that of Richmond’s.

I do hope that Council will come up with a better way of calculating a reasonable compensation for a City Manager. While comparing similar positions in similar communities is a common method, one should not rely on the performance of others in other communities as the primary input. In my opinion, the primary input should be actual performance of the individual compared to agreed to objectives. I do not see that component in the above description.

relitycheck wrote: “Looks like we are the lowest of the comparables so what do you want??”

Are you living in BC? Ever been to PG and Richmond? Anyone who has been should be able to tell that they are far from comparable.

We need a Manager who will do what the Core Review can’t even touch because there is no one on the team who has the kind of experience it takes to assess the situation in PG.

In my opinion, we need a short term manager who has a proven record of managing “problem” cities and turning them around, in a 3 to 5 year time period and is able to work with a Council culture of micromanaging.

Difficult to find. Will reqquire a higher compensation but if he.she measures up will be worth every single penny. Build major bonuses in the contract based on actual perfromance which will bring the compensation up to the higher amout I mentioned.

realitycheck— “How do you know he did a bad job?? “

Read through the annual reports during Derek’s time as city manager. These reports offer a glimpse of how well(or poorly) the city is managed and from what I see it is not a pretty picture.Pay particular attention to forward planning and action plans for various departments and you will see the same items almost verbatim year after year.

A glaring example of this is the shortfall in infrastructure maintenance spending, mentioned every year that the action plan for the following year was to come up with a plan to bridge the gap…..nothing got done…rinse repeat next year!

How are the elected officials expected to make an informed decisions if the facts are not presented to them?

Although Bates is not responsible for doing these reports himself, he sure as hell is expected to hold department heads accountable and ensure that things get done as outlined. That is why he gets the big bucks….if someone is not doing the job find someone who will.

http://princegeorge.ca/cityservices/finance/Pages/default.aspx

It’s just like the raise council gave themselves, compre it to who you want to make the numbers look good. If council isn’t doing a top notch job they don’t deserve top notch pay, but they voted it in for he solves anyways. Same thing here.

We all know pg is hurting financially from over spending. Let’s hope he new manager will take control of this and get us out of this debt.

The one thing our “mayor” has done is prove how wrong you can be when you vote for another candidate because you don’t like the one now. I know nothing yet that green has done to help PG at all.

realiticheck

One does not RUN any kind of major operation with a board that potentially changes every three years.

1. policy? The Administration recommends, the Council approves.

2. Budget? The Administration recommends, the Council approves.

3. Hirings? Council hires the Manager. The Manager along with his/her directors/managers/supervisors hires every other person and is responsible for ensuring that they have objectives which they are accountable for and taking proper steps if they do not meet objectives.

In my opinion and experience you are far off base with who has to have the expertice in running a city.

Take a close look at who sits on Council, any Council, not just ours, and which of them we should hire as a City Manager or any department manager.

In my opinion, not a single one has the capacity to be a City Manager who can assess recommendations made to him/her from various department managers and pass them on to Council as recommendations.

A good City Manager is not just a broker of others’ work.

You ot it, lonesome sparrow!!

You GOT it, lonesome sparrow!!

(I seem to be getting “sticky keys”)

Is the consulting firm Disney?

We should all refuse to pay land taxes. Its just a big cookie jar for city council. Its such a perfect world.

“soxmalone” I am not sure how you blame rogers for current pay at city hall. He wasn’t even on council when the last cupe contact was negotiated (the one that ends this December).

I think kinsley was running the show in those days and while he was tough at least he was fair and not like the current mayor and council who all took a big raise in January while telling everybody else to tighten the belt.

Btw a quick web search showed the following wages for a few cities of comparable size and budget. These are 2010 wages I think:

Abbotsford – City Manager – $249,000
Kelowna – City Manager – $247,149
Coquitlam – City Manager – $228,363
Victoria – City Manager – $219,384
Nanaimo – City Manager -$214,544
Kamloops – CAO – $195,925
Prince George – City Manager – $195,000
White Rock – City Manager – $194,535

1. policy? The Administration recommends, the Council approves.

2. Budget? The Administration recommends, the Council approves.
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Is this what is really happening at City Hall? I doubt it.

Why is thje City the major property owner in the downtown? Did management have these purchases approved by City council? A purchase like the PG Hotel, an investor who flipped it for a profitat at the expense of the tax payer..

Whuy has Bates resigned from a plum job? Was he leading council down a garden path that will now show up with the Core Review?. And in some cases the Mayor seems to think she is, probably smarter then ,the City Manager. So how does that fit?

The Idea that the, “administration recommends and council approves” has been around for eons but it never works that way.
cheers

“The Idea that the, “administration recommends and council approves” has been around for eons but it never works that way.”

Actually “never” is a finite word. “sometimes”, “rarely”, “frequently”, and other similar words which show up on a spectrum of “allways” to “never” are the true cases. And those vary with time, personalities, expertise, etc.

Ideally the “chair of the board” or “chair of the Council” works closely with the CAO (City Manager).

THAT working relationship is the key to how things get done at City Hall. Ideally, they carry relatively equal weight. But in many cases, one overpowers the other.

The perception of the general public may be far from the actual situation. The closer one is to one or both, the more likely one is relatively accurate about the knowledge of how well the working relation is.

From what I can tell from my experience, Chester Jeffries ran a fairly tight ship as City Manager. George Paul came close to doing the same. Not only that, but I think both were able to run the City without too much interference from Council or Mayor.

I do not think that Derek Bates has the same ability. I also think none of the Mayors during Derek Bates’ tenure had the ability to work seamlessly with him.”

It was simply not to be. I wish he next person more luck.

Bates came to the City Managers job from the Regional District offices on 1st and George. He wandered down the street and picked up a cushy job that paid him over $200,000.00 per year.

How did we manage to find him??? He was all of 7 blocks away. Perhaps he had friends in high places.

Did we check out the present manager of the Regional District??? Is he/she qualified??? Does he/she want a $200,000.00 per year job?? Or does he/she not know anyone in high places???

Bates was an inside boys club guy that dabbled in realestate, fell on his face on infrastructure planning, and racked up some huge court costs for thinking his word was above that of the law.

Good riddance IMO. In a perfect world some of those court costs would come out of his salary, but we know that will never happen. The man wasn’t worth the salary of the custodian that cleans his office. The man bankrupted the city under his watch (eg the need for the core review) so we should all wish him happy trails as he leaves on his way.

IMO the city manager should be competent and I have no doubt we have competent people here in PG that could do that job for less than $150,000 a year.

What we really need is a mayor that works for the people of PG and not some special interest group… a mayor that gets down to taking ownership of the situation rather than passing the buck to the core review.