We Are Waiting For Your Explanation Councillor Stolz
Thursday, December 6, 2012 @ 3:45 AM
At this week’s City Council meeting much was made of the fact that if the city were to sell the Pine Valley Golf course the city could possibly get as much as 17 Million dollars for commercial development, and between 4-5 million if it is turned into residential development.
Councillor Stolz even had broken down what possibly could be received by way of interest if the property were sold; Ian Wells suggested that there was a further $300,000 sitting on the table in taxes.
When you hear these people talking you immediately return to the comments for example that Stolz made during the run up to the last election about paying two and half million for the old PG hotel site, and a further one million for the air above the commonwealth health parking lot. Look at what we are getting, he lamented during an interview with him. Well we are still waiting for that gold rush Councillor.
We already have about 85,000 square feet of top quality office space available in the downtown, that’s the equivalent to the size of the Royal Bank building plus.
So the wood innovation center gets built , where will the draw come from for that additional office space? Unless of course you follow the same course that we have at present where you poach the tennants from someone else.
So we are in for three and half million in the old PG property with clean up and all. How about the good Councillor speaking out at Council to tell the taxpayers just what that is costing us a year in interest. While he is at it, perhaps he can also give us some insight into what the taxpayers are losing in interest on the 12% of the total downtown property that we own.
The question that comes to mind, is, should we not sell some of what we have an over abundance of, namely downtown property, before we further down grade the price by bringing on some more commercial property on highway 16 west?
If we are trying to restore the downtown, which was the big pitch made by the Council in the last election could they explain how creating a new commercial area far removed from the downtown will improve not only the interest to come downtown but the property values as well?
Finally, we all are sitting around waiting to see who steps forward to buy that property surrounding the old PG hotel site, because if it is the Province and they pay what is owing against the property, the two sitting MLA’s can all but kiss their election chances good bye.
I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.
Comments
I can’t help but think that certain people know who wants the Pine Valley land. If a store chain like Toys-R-Us wanted the land, Cameron Stolz would quickly become a friend of Pine Valley golf.
More armchair economic wisdom. Ho hum …
Mr Stolz has plans for himself not so much the City,make a great Con MP hehehhe
My point Ben is the city (us) owns alot of down town property that no one wants. You have to sell what the buyers are looking for at a price the market will bear. I wouldn’t buy a building or an open lot downtown.
The city estimates the commercial value of this property at $17m that will create $300k in annual taxes. Where did they get this number and have they identified potential users.
At one time the car dealerships were pegged as wanting it but that is no longer the case. The Wood group is settled with new GM and Honda dealerships along Highway 16 and $1M improvements planned to PG Motors. Northland will be complete once the dodge garage is built on the newly purchased land and the Nissan one is moved. Volkswagen also has a brand new building and Subaru and Kia not that old either. So the only real possibility would be Toyota or maybe a new one such as Mazda, long shot at best.
What about big box stores? Looking at recent history in that area the plans for a full scale Rona store were put on the shelf and a scaled back version built at existing location. Target..too late. Lowes…unlikely.
If the land is offered as commercial I suspect that someone (with deeper pockets than Commonwealth) will buy it and sit on it. The tax on the undeveloped land will be a fraction of what Stoltz says.
Residential development would take a few years to fill in and show limited $ to the coffers.
So much like the planes stacking up waiting for the longer runway and developers fighting to be first in line for downtown tax breaks this is another case of vision through rose colored glass, I think all the windows at city hall are of that hue:)
Pine Valley was, and will be, urban green space in Prince George. It’s affordable and accessible for city youth. It’s a flat, quick course, that’s favorable for seniors. Is there a land shortage here? Why not get rid of the weed patch between the Sandman and the Credit Union? I guess nobody wants it.
I don’t golf much, but many of my friends walked or rode the bus to golf Pine Valley when they were kids. This town needs to keep kids busy, and this course is one option. Hopefully people stand up and rally against the sale of this property. Can’t we liquidate a bunch of the dormant buildings this city has been so foolishly buying up downtown, instead of selling the assets that actually benefit citizens?
PGGCC could not sell their land which has far better exposure than the Pine Valley location yet Stoltz would imply there are buyers waiting in the wings for Pine Valley.
This is the same guy who was a strong promoter of the River Road dike to the tune of spending 10 million taxpayer dollars and even said if the AAP was 1 vote short the dike was going to be built.
He certainly does not appear to have the interests of the citizens of PG at the forefront of his agenda. He is certainly someone who should be dropped from council at the next civic election.
As for selling property, the first place to look is the over abundance of city owned downtown property the city so willing parted with taxpayer dollars to purchase, and even paid a 1/2 million dollar premium for the old PG hotel on a realestate flip.
Leave Pine Valley alone. I am not a golfer and if it takes a few of my tax dollars to support Pine Valley I am all for it.
Our city councillors are a bit like the crazy lawyer in the movie “Where the Buffalo Roam”, in the scene where he has buddies buying guns. A cognitively-challenged South American grabs one and shoots it off randomly, making everyone else scatter. That’s what city council reminds me of. Maybe that is their hope; shoot randomly everywhere and hopefully something good will happen from it. Yeesh!
It’s not fair to implicate the entire city council when it’s obvious that more than one (Skakun) doesn’t support these issues. But I guess that is why these councillors never get the trip to china?
The sale of the Pine Valley Golf course lands to commercial interests at the expense of those who use this Golf Course is nothing more than a con job.
Where will the money from the sale of this land go??? Seems to me that the City just amended a bylaw that emphatically states that money from the sale of the land will go to the Land Reserve Fund, and then transferred on an annual basis to the Capital Projects Fund. So there are no secrets as to where the money will go. Problem is, Stolz would have us beleive that it will go to pay down debt, or to reduce the costs to the City’s fleet.
Now the problem here is, is that Stolz along with the Mayor and other Councillors voted to amend the bylaw allowing this money to go to the Capital Funds Project, yet they are pretending that it will be used for other reasons. What the hell is that all about. Do they think we are fools?? I suspect so.
The Mayor voted to keep the Pine Valley Golf course in 2010, but now says that interest in Golf is waning. I suggest to you it has not wanned anymore in 2011, and 2012, than it did in 2010, and in fact she is making this statement for the precise reason that it gives her the opportunity to support selling the land. She has no hard statistics to back up her claim, and in fact there is evidence that the exact opposite is true.
So we have our elected officials holding back information, or not being up front with what is actually taking place, so that they can get what they want, for themselves and others at the expense of the majority of the taxpayers and citizens of Prince George. This type of BS has been going on for years and has to stop.
We had hoped that the new Council would have some influence on how things were done at City hall. I suggest its time for them, along with some others to get some gonads, and stand up for those who elected them, and give us a bloody break.
I have a proposal (copy of a plan) for the development titled “Northland Automall” just west of the Bon Voyage which would consist of three dealerships, Northland Dodge Dealership,a “Proposed” Nissan dealership and a small “import dealer”, a twelve lot subdivision. A frontage road too on Highway 16. Access to the subdivision off of Bear Road. I suspect this fell through due to 2008. Big plans, big bucks, big dreams, big crash. No way to resurrect that? An automotive “second coming” unlikely to happen? As an aside, any progress on that hotel/development at Marleau Road and Highway 16? Can you say anti-development at city hall? Or as I see it, Our own special inclusive Prince George Monopoly Game. Some city councillors being the bankers in it?
Is there a huge economic boom occurring in PG that I’m not aware of? Remember years ago when one of the prominent business people in the city implied that 20,000 people would soon be moving to PG? Are they finally showing up?
Like others have said, there likely aren’t any big box stores missing that would come to PG given its current size and there is no way that there is enough demand to fill that area with residential developments. There are already hundreds of vacant lots spread from one end of PG to the other.
I honesty can’t see the land being used for anything other than a relocation effort, which means that there will just be vacant land elsewhere in the city. It would be a complete and utter waste to sell the land simply to accommodate that.
The city needs to look at this land for what it is, an asset. Not only that, but it’s an asset that provides a current form of ROI for the people of the city (through recreational opportunities) and it’s also one that will appreciate in value as land generally does. It should be held until it’s absolutely obvious that the improvements to the city as a result of the sale far outweigh holding the property as an asset.
If the proceeds from a sale were used to pay down debt then there might be an economic argument around the saved interest costs, but that doesn’t even seem to be in the equation. It sounds to me like it’s a flip purely to accommodate the wishes of someone in the business community or a flip to generate some quick cash that can be used to fund another facility . . . basically trading the golf course for something else.
Regardless of how you look at it, it’s a dumb move IMHO.
Sell the golf course get a PAC and a parking meter system…
We don’t need more commercial out that way anyways. I’d like to see more out the Hart way. Its too far to drive to College Heights all the time.
Lethbridge has more than one Canadian Tire and more than one Walmart and probably twice the service businesses that PG has, but with the same population base… why not PG too?
The land in question is questionable at best for development. The smell from the city sewer treatment plant is unbearable in that part of town at dusk… who would want to live there or have a store there anyways? Its just disgusting the smell being located right next to sewage treatment.
IMO this is an underhanded way for certain councilors to shake up funds to help finance a PAC. They are not going to be above board and there will not be a referendum.
I agree 100% with NMG and Eagleone on this issue.
Some Councillors and the Mayor are trying to do an end run on the citizens of Prince George.
Hopefully we will wake up and smell the roses and put a stop to this BS.
The economic future is not bright, Not only for PG but for Canada. This city has to get used to the idea that they must become a lot more frugal. When we get into a recession there will be no money to pay the interest on our loans, let alone pay on the principle.
To bad pine valley does not have a restaurant and try applying to council for a liquor licence, Then Mr Stolz could sit in council and brag to the pine valley administrators that they have the best service in the city and then lecture and them. Reminded me of a child. If this man runs toy stores like he runs city, he will be bankrupt.
Commonwealth, PG hotel and down town property along with city hall has a bad smell. Can not wait till this whole thing unfolds.
The hotel business in downtown is obviously not very lucrative, otherwise we would not have had
1. A proposal for a new hotel, possibly a Delta, which has not gone ahead one year after the rumours about it first started making the rounds….
2. A Ramada that has stretched out its renovation inside and out for some 4 years by now and counting with absolutely no sense of urgency to get that dumpster removed from its frontage and the exposed insulation covered on the front because in 2016 they might actually put in a glass canopy. I understand that they shut down half the rooms at one time or even still for renovation purposes instead of a floor at a time.
3. A Coast which we are told by one manager after another which has one of the best occupancy rates in the chain but improvements which have come to many others in the chain have been promoted for decades. Even a 75 room expansion or other variations have been talked about since before Golds Gym built on the block the Inn had first indicated they would build the expansion. A 75 room expansion is still on the BC Major Projects list.
They say PG needs more rooms, but no one is taking a risk other than Sandman and Sheraton. Even the Casino Hotel has not moved ahead with its expansion proposal.
I love to see Councillors shoot themselves in the Cityâs foot by lecturing a relatvely large business in town during these economic times. Shows us clearly how business friendly we really are!!
Good post, gus.
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