Would Someone Please Tell Us What’s Going On With The Wood Innovation Center
Monday, December 17, 2012 @ 3:45 AM
Would someone please give us the straight goods on what is happening on the old PG Hotel site and the adjacent lands?
According to the Vancouver Sun, a significant requirement in the bidding process was removed from the bidding process last Friday. That was the requirement that the winning bidder of the provincially funded $25 million dollar contract also work with the private sector to develop and build another project on "adjacent land".
When 250News raised the issue with the head of planning for the City, Ian Wells, a week ago he said that the Wood Innovation Center was being built on City land (the old PG hotel site) and the adjacent land referred to was in fact the old parking lot for the PG hotel also owned by the city as part of the initial deal.
The bid documents show the government wanted the second building to be at least 4500 Sq Metres, (48,437 Sq Ft) and it had to be independently financed. Bidders for the Wood Innovation Center would get the most credit in the proposal if the second building was,”consistent with the WIDC proposal in regards to value added wood products." keep in mind that a 48,000 sq foot building is the equivalent of a building the same size as the first six floors of the Royal Bank Building, and if it was to cover the old Prince George Hotel Parking lot, would the Commonwealth property be sought for parking for the Wood Innovation center , and this "other" building and at what cost.
So who’s right the Province or Wells?
The Deputy Minister of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training, Dave Byng says the government has now removed the private sector requirement and re started the bid process.
Pat Bell is the Minister of Jobs Tourism and Training. When I raised the matter with him he said the matter was before the courts and he couldn’t comment. That matter of course was the fact that the NDI Trust had just filed a foreclosure on the properties that are owned by Commonwealth Campuses and which are also "adjacent" to the WIDC lot.
Why the province would be involved in suggesting to the bidders that they somehow had to become involved in the development of a private building on land held by private investors raises some serious questions.
Those questions go all the way back to why NDI Trust , a government sponsored trust using the proceeds of the sale of BC Rail, was using public money to finance a "for profit, private venture."
Where would a new 48,000 sq ft building go on the “adjacent land”, and is the "adjacent land" those lots owned by a private company, or are they, as Wells suggested, the parking lots that were purchased along with the P.G. Hotel? The bid documents say "To facilitate the likelihood of Private Sector Participation on adjacent land, the Province will negotiate an option agreement with the City of Prince George for the use of lands immediately adjacent to the WIDC Site."
What business does the Province have in suggesting where a development should take place and how does it in any way tie into the Wood Innovation Center? Is the Province in the business of making a profit for a private company and if so, why?
Dave Byng, Deputy Minister told the Vancouver Sun on Friday that, “based on the feedback from the proponents and other folks that are in the process, we are removing that element from the RFP”.
The question remains why was a second building in the process in the first place? On what basis did the Province decide to promote a private property using government as a means to achieve that development?
And finally who called the shot?
If the City Planner didn’t know what was going on, who did? The Minister of Jobs and Tourism, Pat Bell springs to mind.
I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.
Comments
So to win the WIDC bid you had to agree to make Commonwealth rich?
Isn’t that just a clever way of pushing taxpayer money to Commonwealth?
AS the world turns, there are more questions than answers in the end taxpayer will pay the price… only two more announements to go then maybe some real answers.
I also read the Vancouver Sun article .Interesting that this is where we find out what is going on in this city.I agree what is going on?My question is how does a private investment group borrow public money ,purchase a building sell it to one level of government who then turns around and sells it to another level of government then is somehow able to add a clause to the bid process.In the meantime said company is able to make a profit using public funds.I would say NDIT has some ansewers forthcoming.Then it is before the courts right so chumps like us who have footed the bill for this debacle will never know.Guess it’s all about who know.
The duncan ferries post was written by Jennifer Ferries
People that stand to gain financially are really good at spinning wild webs of BS to see their end game come to fruition. How long until the people that are being taken, stand up and say enough is enough?
PartnershipsBC web site with the WIC project listed including links to public details http://www.partnershipsbc.ca/files-4/project-widc.php
News release identifying the 3 proponents selected. http://www.partnershipsbc.ca/files-4/documents/2012JTST0005-001321.pdf
The RFP document http://www.partnershipsbc.ca/files-4/documents/2012-10-11_WIDC_Request-for-Proposals.pdf
Technical submission was due November 29, 2012; financial December 21, 2012
Apendix A â evaluation criteria http://www.partnershipsbc.ca/files-4/documents/2012-10-11_WIDC_Request-for-Proposals_Appendix-A.pdf
Appendix A is a document which is dated October 11, 2012. Go to page 6 of 7 and you will see the private sector participation criteria which are scored out of 25 points. It gives ranges of area from 500 square meters to 4,500+ square meters. The maximum attainable point can be achieved with the minimum of 4,500 m2 plus use of SSR (value added wood product use) rather than BCBC standards.
So this info has been public for 2 months and for years before that as far as the Province’s intention for this building.
Not all of the documents are public. The proponents are issued confidential materials which they have to agree to keep confidential. I would think the whole property dealings would fit under that. I would also think that it is wide open as to how and where any private space will be built, whether with the WIC, directly adjacent to it to the north, or across the laneway to the west. Plaza 400 originally had city land as well as provincial land but it was built seamlessly as one complex. This is nothing new. Been there, done that.
It should also be no secret that the WIC is being proposed by the province for a number of reasons. One of those reasons is to get into the lineup of previous government investment to get the downtown a kick start, such as Plaza 400 and the Courthouse. They could easily have built the courthouse near where the old court was in the on 3rd and Vancouver area and it would have been close to the bulk of the law offices. It was, however, an attempt at populating that part of town. Not a very successful one.
So the reason that requirement is in the proposal is that additional, private, commercial space is intended to be a key component of the WIC. It has been that way from the beginning.
This is a Public, Private Partnership (P3) proposal. The RFP was set up right from the start in that fashion. If there is any addendum issued which deals with land use and ownership, it would likely be included as part of the confidential package.
I do not know whether anyone has ever looked at an alternate view. For example, when people sniff around the same area of town to try to find out who is interested and what is going on and what joint business may be able to be conducted for mutual benefit, they often make assumptions. I would think that the reason for the default could be that Commonwealth had something in the bag, the same as with the hotel property, and now discover they do not, and certainly that it has taken much longer than expected for the project to move ahead.
We have three separate proponents. Each will try to outdo the other to win the bid. They may each take the same approach with where the additional private partner will come from and be located, whether to the north or the west or both. They may even come up with something completely different such as building a private development on another block.
I have not read the RFP thoroughly, but in skimming though it I did not find anything that would render such a proposal unacceptable. In fact, I could argue that if done right, it could improve the proposal for several reasons.
They unloaded a huge back hoe on the old PG Hotel property on the week-end, so it seems something is taking place there.
The whole WIC is nothing more than another Government project, thinly disquised as a progressive project that actually has a purpose.
Wood Innovation started some 3000 years ago, with the advent of fire and spears, and has progressed ever since. This project is nothing more than the continuation of wasting tax dollars to the benefit of the few at the expense of the many.
Dont know what the average taxpayer will get out of this venture. The same as they got out of the Airport Runway Expansion, The Community Energy System, Boundry Road, and the highly overpriced, and mislocated, Police Station. Nothing more than an increase in taxes.
Lets do something for the average taxpayers of Prince George, like ensuring that the swimming pools, hockey rinks, golf course, etc; are not sold off, and maybe do some road paving, infrastructure upgrades, and find a way to reduce taxes.
Take the big ticket items and put them where the sun dont shine.
gus, a number of lawyers moved their practices closer to the Courthouse and using that area for the Farmer’s Market has certainly done some good.
I like the idea of requiring other private investment in this project as I think it might help get more investment in the downtown. I am not sure, however, if making it a requirement of the bidding process is a great way to do it. I believe it probably scares investors off more than it attracts them. I am also not sure if the Prov. Gov’t should be involved in this either. Doesn’t it all come back to “shouldn’t that be the City’s job?”
Oh thankyou,thankyou Gus for all the information. You shouls be having a columnof your own to give us even more information. Some of us dont have the time to surf the net all day
Cheers
“Some of us dont have the time to surf the net all day”
The thing is, for those of us who have been in the community for many decades and have had an interest in the community and participated for much of that time, we do not have to spend that much time surfing the net since we are experiencing it more directly.
Instead of spending the time between 10am this morning and 3pm this afternoon surfing the net, I surfed the people (oops, networked with people) just to keep me in touch with others who are interested in the community and play an active part in it.
Remember, at 6pm we can all surf the net by watching Council.
:-Ã
bornandbred wrote: “a number of lawyers moved their practices closer to the Courthouse”
Moving service offices such as law firms, engineers, financial advisers, health offices, government offices such as the base of the Oxford building, call centres such as synovate, etc. to storefronts is a sign that a downtown, shoping centre, etc. is dying.
On the other hand, when such places are replaced by retail, restaurants, hotels, multi storey offices and apartments with active storefront use on the ground floor, then it is a sign of a downtown that is alive or coming back to life.
Urban planning 101 ……
Hmmmm….I wonder , if it had been Retired 02 that had spelled community with 2 u’s, would bonneville still have gotten her boxer shorts in a knot ?
Urban planning 101 ……
Would that be comparible to Rural planning 101…… :)
gus, shouldn’t that be Suburban Planning 101? Maybe if the City hadn’t planned all those big box stores out in the suburbs like every other city in North America, we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place.
Where were the big box stores supposed to go? Don’t say downtown.
JohnnyBelt, so you say not downtown but where? You like them in the suburbs? Why couldn’t some of those big box stores locate downtown?
Hint: Measure the size of the footprint of a typical big box store (including parking lot). Try to fit that somewhere in the downtown. Good luck.
then we would need 5 blocks for parking alone.
The Bay, Sears – which will now become a Nordstrom – and the entire underground Pacific Centre Mall and its associated stores are no different than a grouping of Pine Centre Mall-like stores and box stores combined and more as far as retail space goes. There is parking, there is rapid transit and there are hotels and office built over and adjacent to them.
http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/Commercial-Real-Estate/Vancouver+Nordstrom+store+plans+revealed/7254796/story.html
When one thinks of sprawlsvilles like PG, of course there is not enough room downtown. When there is compactness, there is tons of room.
We have access to the full palette of retail design. We are just not using the full palette because we think that sprawl is cheaper. It isnât. It is just simpler for simple minds to understand.
If it were cheaper, cities all over the world would be spread out more than they are; they would look more like Frank Lloyd Wrightâs utopian Broadacre City rather than the cities we are building and people continue to flock to. China is actually the prime example of that economic truth of land use.
gus: “The Bay, Sears – which will now become a Nordstrom – and the entire underground Pacific Centre Mall and its associated stores are no different than a grouping of Pine Centre Mall-like stores and box stores combined and more as far as retail space goes. There is parking, there is rapid transit and there are hotels and office built over and adjacent to them.”
Are you comparing PG to Vancouver with the disparity of population and real estate values and available development areas? Talk about comparing apples to oranges.
It’s not that I disagree with your overall point, but your comparision isn’t exactly fair or equal.
Maybe we didnt need the big box stores. there are cities that refused to let them build in their communities. If their was no place down town dont bother locationg there.
The planning was just another bungle by the city. All they were interested in was the tax revenue that they would get from the development. The plannoing has screwed the downtown and to add injury to insult the city has bought up some of the vacant lots with tax dollar.
The former Mayor Rogers once said,” I have a dream for Prince George” that has turned into being a night mare. And he was not alone. Kinsley ran a close second with Taresan gas purchase.
The city needs to kee its feet on the ground and stop using tax dollars for airy fairy projects. There I have said it again.
Cheers
“Maybe we didnt need the big box stores.”
Lol. The vast majority of PG disagrees with you on that one. Don’t believe me? Go for a drive by the stores and check out the parking lots.
The IKEA store in Coquitlam has little to no parking lot outside its store footprint, but it does sport a few levels of parking underneath, and every time we have been there it is not hard to find parking, especially with the 20 or so ‘new family oriented’ spots. It is an interesting feat and in this northern area would have a bonus of little to no snow plowing required. The drawback would be for larger jacked up pickups, they would have to use the few outer lot sections.
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