Well of course taxes won’t drop the Liberals need every nickle they can get.

We get ripped off all around,24 0z bottle in US same label $5.60 less. Were Canadians pay more for everything because we will.

Liquor here costs almost double what it should

You wanted the HST gone ,you got it. The prices are going to be virtually the same as before the HST was implemented. I here it’s even cheaper in Mexico than in the states. Do you want to live there?

That’s hear, for the grammar police.

Coot, my comment had nothing to do with HST and yes, I would gladly live in either place. (Easier said than done before some imbecile jumps in with the moronic ‘then just move there’ comment).

The government makes a fortune off of liquor, that’s no big secret.

As far as the HST, if people are expecting prices to drop with the return of the PST/GST, they are going to be in for a shock.

They need to change the name of this site to negative250, surprised there’s not ads for anti-depressants on the sidebars.

You seem to be new to this site zigzag!if you don’t like what you read, you can always hang out in another site!

Zigzag: Bravo!!! It had to be said!!

I want to know what the PST is saving us on groceries, if anything. Groceries are much more important than liquor. Seriously.

So I take it jonnypg is the moderator on this site or the welcome wagon ? Or just the only one who can post his views,please enlighten me …

I realised when the government said it would take time to be able to rewrite the legislation for the PST/GST, that it meant that there would be big changes involved. Why else would they not have simply been able to reinstate the old system as it was?
Why did it only take three months to install the HST but two and a half years to change back?
I think it was a big shock to the government when the people said NO to the HST.

“Why did it only take three months to install the HST but two and a half years to change back?”

I do not know why people still do not understand that there was a section of the agreement which laid out how each party to the agreement could end it.

The agreement was for 5 years and notice had to be given to allow both parties to re-adjust to the old system of aacounting andramping up the department which would do that work. There were major penalties for early removal from the agreement.

Why is that so hard to understand????

Okay, so I will answer my own question.

I think it is so hard to understand because these days governments seem to have major problems with communicating with the people.

City, Regional District, Province, Feds …. they all suffer from the same disease ……

I will give them this ….. as things become more complicated in our world, the general public gets left farther and farther behind and functional illiteracy sets in. That is understandable since they expect the government to do its work to their satisfaction without having to monitor every move.

Muppets news flash! There is no pst or hst on groceries. Now I’m talking food here not junk food. Only some items like crackers, nuts and chips have HST added to the price like they were before when we called it GST. So don’t expect your grocery bill to change as the items that were taxed before at 5% will be taxed again at 5%. 5% HST is the same as 5% PST.

Oops I meant GST before you starting getting excited. :)

The overall tax burden for lower class earners will increase with the gst/pst over the hst alone, but hey you asked for it.Google Fraser Institute/HST and see for yourself.

Its a shell game same as our great City is dumping snow removal into the utilities account.

“Here” is a position. eg; He Lives here
“Hear” is to listen. eg: I hear my wife screaming.
Cheers

Th reason it took so long is two fold. One..it has been in so long so the liberals could make back the 1.6 billion they owed the federal gov.. It was expected to take 18-22 months.. So they left it in longetpr to be greedy and make more money off of us.. The second reason is so when they take it out during election year they can try to make themselves look like heros.. I can see it now .. Crusty Clark. On her podium. ” see how we listen to the voters. We extinguished the GST, …now pretty please vote us in again.. “

seriously you just make this stuff up on a whim right …..

here’s the Fraser Institute link

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/research-news/news/display.aspx?id=17858

and for those that don’t have the time this is the last paragraph as they sum it up.

Importantly, the increase in the total tax bill will be largest as a proportion of income for families in the lowest income group. For families making $20,000 to $40,000, the total tax increase under the PST/GST will average 1.9 per cent of income. For families in the other five income groups, the total tax increase is, on average, 0.8 per cent of income. Families in the lowest income group are therefore hardest hit by a shift back to the PST/GST.
As British Columbians mull over the referendum question, they must realize that a vote to return to the PST/GST is a vote for higher taxes. Even if voters are sceptical of the economic benefits of the HST—which include increased investment, jobs, income, and general prosperity—at the very least they can be sure that keeping the HST means a lower overall tax burden for everyone.

and here were are…. so if you voted against the HST don’t complain about taxes … you asked for it.

and we the taxpayers of BC owe 1.6 billion not the liberals.

This is perfect example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. The HST is a simpler system. That alone should almost be benefit enough.

IMO most of the rage over the HST comes from the Liberals bold-faced lying to the people of BC. It wasn’t a little bit of creative wording, but in-your-face lying. The people got tired of it.

With regards to this story above…. who really cares if it affects alcohol or not? It’s far from a priority.

“The people got tired of it” and cut their noses to spite their faces as it appears will be done in the next election. So who is really at fault a lying govt or uneducated voters.

And while we’re at it let’s tack a buck a litre on gas. Why the hell not? People can just chose not to drive.

I often wonder how many people bitching on here have a smoke in one hand and a bottle on the desk when they are posting.

When they brought in the HST it was supposed to eventually lead to lower prices on the goods and services that consumers paid for things.So what I am seeing in the article,is another lie by the liberals as they just marked the liquor up to offset the difference in taxes.We would never have seen those savings from the switch to the HST,as people can always find other ways to scalp the consumer.

Zigzag.. Yes all of bc owed the money..due to the deal the provincial liberals made with the fed libs.. And yes we all owe thnx to the ruling party in BC.

Like I have said before.. I want a ruling party who does what they say.. Not lie their butts off to get in then do what they want.

If the politicians didn’t lie.. More voters would turn out.. The feeling of distrust is rampant so the voters don’t care.. It all originates from the politicians.

Well Coot, since I’m driving with my knee while posting, that only leaves me one free hand to smoke/drink/snort coke. Decisions, decisions….

There’s no tax on cocaine yet so enjoy it while you can.

Anything from the Fraser Institute is biased to the right ……

NoWay on February 16 2013 11:24 AM
Muppets news flash! There is no pst or hst on groceries

Correct ……

I do not call a rotissery chicken junk food. It is convenience food.

It had GST on before …. and then HST …. now it should be just GST.

I know, because I saw the difference on my grocery receipts and stopped buying it out of principle.

And the same goes with restaurant food … whether junk food or soul food or vegan food….. does not matter.

Ontario did not see that change when they switched to HST because they had PST on it prior to the switch.

And strangely, if I recall correctly, the Fraser Institute believes in legalizing weed and generating revenue vs letting organized crime reap all the profits. Out of character for the right, yet the dollars and cents probably justify it. No pennies though.

P Val on February 16 2013 2:53 PM
Zigzag.. Yes all of bc owed the money..due to the deal the provincial liberals made with the fed libs.. And yes we all owe thnx to the ruling party in BC.

YSo where do you get that BS from?

The HST came in under the Conservative minority government which came to power in 2006. The HST was implemented in July 2010. The federal Liberals had nothing to do with it.

PEI will be implementing it April of 2013.

The HST was agreed upon by the provinces, independently, under the guidance of the Feds, no?

To the people that wanted the HST gone thanks again for increasing my taxes even more because it will cost everyone to get ride of it and it will cost everyone for the loss that the government had when dealing with pay again. We should have kept it because they will implement something else that will cost us all even more money.

The HST is DEAD.

Those who supported it stood to make money. Ie. Business and Corporations, some $2.6 billion a year. The BC Government made approx. $800 Million per year while it was in.

The repayment to the Feds of $1.6 Million and the terms under which it will be repaid has yet to be decided.

Those (Other than business and corporations) who supported the HST were misled, and didn’t seem to have the ability to see that they were getting hosed.

You can thank those that opposed the HST and took the Government to task on this issue, or in the very near future you would be paying 18-24% HST like they do in Europe.

Not only did the opponents get rid of the HST but they got rid of Premier Campbell, and a number of his co-horts, and dealt a body blow to the Liberal Government in BC.

Opponents of the HST WON
Supporters of the HST LOST.

Thanks for the Muppet news flash! Very informative.

What did the opponents win Palopu? Bragging rights for forcing the name change?

I agree gus that a pre cooked chicken isn’t junk food. But it is a value added food because someone had to prepare that chicken. Just like phoning in for takeout at your favorite sogood restaurant. You want the convenience pay the taxes.

We won on reversing the removal of over
$ 800 million annually in additional taxes from the pockets of B C consumers. Taxes that will now revert to being collected, as a component of prices, from the foreign buyers of our products that HST gave a tax break to at OUR expense.

NoWay. As I said. Those who supported the tax never seemed able to grasp what it was all about.

They basically bought into the Liberal/Corporate propaganda.

Why do you think that business and corporations, and the Government supported this tax???? Because it made money for them. Why did the average knowledgeable citizens oppose it?? Because it cost them money.

Somebody had to pay for the money the Government lost by eliminating the PST for business and corporations, and the Government thought that they could con the consumers into picking up the tab.

The Government got caught in this farce, and as a result they lost the referendum, lost their Premier and his buddies, and will, soon (it seems) lose the Government.

Quite a price to pay for their skullduggery.

Business and corporations, as of April 1/2013 will be back paying the PST as they were in 2010. In fact the legislation was just passed this week in Victoria.

The whole HST fiasco was a Government, big business, and Corporate scam. From day one the Liberal Government kept up a barrage of propaganda to convince people it was a good tax. What a crock.

The Liberals kept this tax in place for business, corporations, and themselves as long as they could, and will now, as mentioned above, implement it on April 1st, and try and take the credit for **listening to the people**.

If you want a potentially fairer tax regime utilising Sales Taxes, eliminate both the GST and PST and put a 2% tax on EVERY transaction, no exemptions, groceries and everything else included, and have it go one way. None of this Input Tax Credit nonsense, and exemptions for goods sold as exports.

Divvy up the take 50:50 between the Province and the Federal government. The take would dwarf what’s collected and retained now, and 2% is a small enough percentage spread over such a huge volume of transactions that it wouldn’t even be missed.

When you think about the great supermarket fortunes, (Safeway, etc.) that have been generated on often less than a 2% average margin, the overall revenue potential to fund governmental expenditure is enormous.

NoWaywrote: “But it is a value added food because someone had to prepare that chicken”

LOL ……

Guess what. I do not think there is a single thing that one buys that does not have added value. That is the very reason you buy it. The value added to it is cheaper to buy than for you to provide it.

The farmer added value to the chicken that laid the egg which grew the chicken …. and slaughtered it, etc. etc. and then the driver who transported it to the store …. etc. etc. etc …..

I am experiencing the northwest of the USA more and more who have no state income tax and a sales tax of just over 8% on some totally different things which we have ….. taxing stuff one buys is obviously a big guessing game …. anyone who thinks there is a science involved has to be an optimist.

“Business and corporations, as of April 1/2013 will be back paying the PST as they were in 2010. In fact the legislation was just passed this week in Victoria.”

Palopu. Did you mean they be again paying the PST or back paying as in a back payment for the last 3 years that they haven’t paid?

The only REAL beneficiary of HST was the Banks.

True, Corporations that export benefited through an increase in their reported rate of profit due to the transference of what they previously paid, and lost, (for a longer period of time), in PST on their Capital and operating Costs, to immediately recoverable Input Tax Credits under HST.

But what they previously paid in PST were effectively deductions from Income Taxes. The Capital Cost of a new asset under PST INCLUDED what was paid in PST, and the Capital Cost Allowance (depreciation) was based on that figure. Likewise what was paid on Operating Costs subject to PST. They got the PST back through deductions from Income Taxes payable.

Under HST, these deductions were lost, and Income Taxes payable increase. The REAL advantage was gleaned by the big Banks, because as the rate of corporate profit increased through smaller pre-Income Tax deductions for PST, the Banks could then loan more money to these corporations. (And, of course, as we all know, they always use this additional funding to INCREASE jobs ~ I mean, have you ever heard of any employer automating any plant or process to do anything any different? snicker, snicker).

But that isn’t the only way the Banks benefit, (short term, long term they’ll lose just the same as the rest of us do with HST).

Because the government has removed $ 800 million more in purchasing power from the pockets of BC consumers, AND that $ 800 million is made up of money that was previously COSTED into the prices of all goods and services made in BC as it was distributed as Incomes to BC workers, the flow of Prices of these goods will collectively exceed the collective flow of Incomes available to BC consumers to buy them. Unless they go further into debt.

Only a government that serves its financial overlords rather than the people it is supposed to would stoop to initiate a nefarious tax like that. Such a government should be hounded from office, they are not fit to govern this Province and further mortgage all of us to the greed of Mammon for their share of such filthy lucre.

Holy …..

It constantly amazes me that some people still believe over 700,000 people were wrong about the HST being good for us. Go figure.

It also amazes me that some people change thier handle name just so others think someone new has joined the conversation. Right zigzag?

Wow only 42 days left of being ripped off paying HST. Who’s this zigzag character anyways? Sounds like a campbell lackey. Is it true that the legislation was passed this week to EXTINGUISH the HST? I did not hear anything about that on any of the MSM. First time I heard it was above from palopu. Can some one confirm that here for us. Howz bout you zigzag? Is it true? Yes or no. I sure hope that it is true. I worked many nights walking from door to door collecting signatures from citizens. All but one person signed my peition sheets. I canvassed more then 1000 people. And just one refusal. So explain that for us too please zigzag. You seem to be the new expert here. So how come only ONE taxpayer did not sign my petition? And 999 others did. I had people in apartments lining up in the halls to wait their turn to sign. So are you gonna tell us all here that these folks were all wrong too? Give us some answers. We the people are FED UP paying your corporate tax bill for you. And in just 42 more days you will be paying your share again. I hope Dix raises corp tax to 60 percent. If I was running the show that is what they would be paying here. Myself, I hardly pay anything for HST. I am really FED UP paying HST for utility bills. And gus is right too. Those chickens are NOT junk food. There should be no tax on anything we eat. Corporations can pay the tax. I can’t wait till April first. This province is gonna celebrate when the HST is EXTINGUISHED. And then a few days later it’s bye bye LIEberals. I aint afaid to cut off my nose to spite my face. I do it all the time. And I am happy for it too. These LIEberals are going to be completely EXTINGUISHEDmay 14. What a great time were gonna have begining very soon. I should only have to drive up to Grande Prairie one more time if it all goes according to plan. Bye Bye snooki. Bye Bye pat bell. Bye Bye shirley. And Bye Bye HST.

Lol mattyc, you are paying more for fuel and wear and tear on your vehicle than you are saving on HST. What is that HST credit on the bottom of your utility bill mattyc? Dix of whomever gets elected will still need to get that tax money mattyc so to think you are going to be paying less after the election is being a little naive. You could always move to Alberta though like so many other people and head offices did the last time the NDP ruled. It will be refreshing though to be screwed by somebody different and looking forward to some new scandals. I wonder if Dix has someone that knows how to falsify documents? If not he could always show them how!

Maybe value added was the wrong choice of word Gus. Anything cooked seemed to have HST on it. Raw almonds no HST roasted almonds yep! I’m not saying I agree with cooked food being taxed just pointing out that not all groceries have HST on it. So people’s grocery bills aren’t going to go down much unless they buy a lot of pre cooked chicken.

Zigzag…you should be aware that mattyc is the sites resident moron, same garbage every post.a self confessed tax cheat who will not even support local business along with brilliant notions like a sixty percent tax rate for big corporations, really? After that last one moves to Alberta or some other location that has a rational tax rate who would be left holding tha ball? Not you as you don’t pay tax, right? Why do you excpect big business to pay for everything? Better fix that tinfoil hat, the voices you hear aren’t real

So you still refuse to answer the questions I asked. All you can do is call me names like all your right wing campbell scum does. Well I don’t care what it costs me so long as I do not pay HST. I know it costs to drive out of the province to avoid HST. But the satisfaction it brings is orgasmic. It only takes spending 1000 dollars to break even. That would be 120 dollars to gordon. I can drive there and back for 120 dollars. So why give it to the LIEberals? Why not take it elsewhere? You can call me what ever names you want but still you can not answer the questions I asked. Why not do that and have a proper discussion about this? No all you LIEberals know how to do is bully others that refuse to pay you. Well enjoy your last days at the trough LIEberals. Your going to be removed from office very very soon. And the HST will be EXTINGUISHED. Thanks Bill for making the referendum happen. Right wing useless LIARS come on answer the questions now.

The leftists on this site must be sooooo proud to have someone like Matty on there side.

weaksauce. Its much better to have the President of the Chamber of Commerce on your side. As an example he stated over a year ago as follows.

**It will be a cold day in hell before the HST is recinded in British Columbia**

So obviously he got it wrong and Matty got it right. How do you explain that???

Mattyc. Headline in the Victoria Times Colonist on Feb. 10/13

BC GOVERNMENT TAKES FINAL STEPS TO KILL HST AND REVIVE PST.

BC Harmonized sales tax took a final blow in its slow-motion death spiral Wednesday with the introduction of a bill to reinstate the old provincial sales tax.

**What the people are interested in are the exemptions that have applied in the past, prior to July 1, 2010. They will be the same** Mike de Jong.

**Its a public policy decision that British Columbians made that we respect** de Jong said of the HST vote.

**Overall, little has changed, said de Jong. “This is the PST as it existed prior to July 1, 2012”

So there you have it. Back to the GST 5% and PST 7% with all the 110 plus exemptions back in place.

Have a nice day.

Socredible. As you will recall the ex Liberal Finance Minister Carole Taylor stated the HST was a $2.6 Billion dollar tax shift from business and corporations to consumers.

One would think that business and corporations made a lot of money on this shift, over and above what they wrote off on their income taxes.

CORRECTION. Taylor said it was a $1.8 Billion dollar tax shift, not $2.6 Billion

Different strokes for different folks mattyc. So do you get the most pleasure at the border or just after you save your 120.00. So will you still travel all that way to save the PST that Alberta doesn’t have? Because that is where the greatest savings are mattyc. Of the 110 things that will be PST exempt after April 1st how many do you purchase every time you head to Alberta, or do you know? Just wondering because where your Alberta receipt says GST it will say GST still for the same items purchased in BC come April 1st.

Just got back from shopping, spent about 200.00 at Costco. Paid 6.46 in HST. Come April 1st I will only have to pay 3.77 if the items were PST exempt before. That’s a savings of 2.69 I can hardly wait.

I think your math is off Mattyc. In order to save 120.00 in HST for items that didn’t have PST on them before you would have to spend 1714.00. You still have to pay GST in Alberta which is 5% like everywhere else. So you have spend 1714.00 in PST exempt items in order to save your 120.00. That’s a lot of pre cooked chicken.

Palopu answered your questions but you better get out that calculator again.

mattyc quote “I aint afaid to cut off my nose to spite my face, I do it all the time” you win I can’t argue with that logic though the “orgasmic” part made me throw up a little in my mouth.

Palopu, yes, I do recall Carole Taylor being quite critical of the HST, though, unfortunately she was no longer in the Legislature or Minister of Finance at that time.

Doubtless “fearless leader” would have listened to her any more than he did to anyone else who had the temerity to oppose his agenda from the inside.

I believe her figures would be correct, but if there was, as she said, a $1.8 billion tax shift onto the backs of BC consumers from corporations, and the government later admitted that the supposedly ‘revenue neutral’ HST had taken in $ 800 million more than they were gleaning in PST, what made up the other $ 1 billion? Where, and to whom, did THAT go?

WE, the people of BC, SOLELY as consumers paid the government $ 800 million a year MORE in HST than it collected off BOTH Us and Corporations under PST.

And with the desperate straits a panicky Campbell found himself facing with bills for the 2010 Owelympics coming due, a rise in the cost of everything due to the pure ‘inflation’ his government previously induced, and increased through having them, and in other ways, disguising it as ‘prosperity’, and a fall off in export revenues he wouldn’t give up $ 1 billion willingly, nor would the Feds have offered him a one time $ 1.6 billion ‘bribe’ to have the HST IF there was no advantage through increased corporate income taxes coming back (primarily) to THEM.

He sold us out. And he did it to keep his financial masters, the big Banks, happy.

The thing with sales tax is that it is a regressive tax, plain and simple, no matter whether it is BC, PEI, Manitoba, Washington State, Italy, or wherever else they are have shifted to and are contnuing to shift to taxing goods and services rather than income, wealth aquisition, inheritance.

Any fool who is a bit street wise knows that intuitively.

Put it togather with a guaranteed minimum income above the poverty level, than we have the start of a negotiation. Otherwise go back to economics 101.

Why don’t all of us who want to be rid of this crooked, self-serving, Liberal government and all its various and sundry hangers-on, but still do not look forward to the prospects of the NDP replacing them, prevail upon the BC Conservatives to dump their current Leader, who is an ossified fossil that will cost them any chance at government they might otherwise have, (and its the best chance they’ve had since the 1940’s), nominate candidates in every riding and fight the coming election Leaderless? With the express understanding that if they become government, they will select a Leader (and Premier) from amongst their elected MLAs on the basis of merit. This is the way that Social Credit fought the election and entered office in BC in 1952, and also in Alberta, in 1935. And both jurisdictions got good governments, responsive to the people, as a result.

You can’t “guarantee” a minimum basic income to anyone based on any kind of taxation, gus. That simply will not work. That’s still ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul’, and you’ll very quickly retard the material progress of both of them.

What needs to happen is for the government to begin to do its books, to keep the National Accounts, (or even Provincial ones, though there would be some differences and greater difficulties, because no Province is completely sovereign under our Constitution over currency and credit), along the same lines as the accounts kept by every private business.

Where we see not only the Liabilities, as we do now in the form of the National or Provincial Debts, but also ALL the ASSETS. Which have a ‘physical’ or productive value far, far greater, and one that increases far faster, than any ‘financial’ Liability now held against them. Or actual progress would be impossible.

The ‘balance’ between the two would be a national, or provincial, Capital Account. Which ‘measures’ our Equity, our beneficial “ownership” of the entire productive entity called Canada, (or British Columbia, if done provincially).

If, as is generally the case, except in instances of a widespread natural disaster, or the destructiveness of war being visited upon us, this Capital Account would continuously increase so long as the value of total national Production exceeded that of total national Consumption over any same chosen fiscal period. It would be ‘written up’ by the net of this difference. And from that sum money, created by essentially the same process the Banks utilise now to create money, could be distributed as a “dividend” to each and every Canadian citizen. The same thing could be done Provincially, only utilising any form of credit instrument that was still within the jurisdiction of the Province, or, from a provincial tax on exports.

Because a direct distribution of a “dividend” of this nature could be inflationary, if the sum involved was of minimum basic income magnitude, an alternate form of distribution would involve a price ‘rebate’ paid to consumers at, or after, the point of retail sale on all consumer goods and services purchases ~ effectively lowering the price of all goods and services to the consumer, while unaffecting or actually increasing normal business profit on turnover for merchants and manufacturers.

We could alway dream about how they do it in Sweden!

Employee pays 32% income tax.
Employers pays an additional 31.42% social fees%
VAT is 25% with food and services at 12%.

Weeee!

The ‘regressive’ nature of Sales Taxes versus Income Taxes is not primarily the fact that the poor are disadvantaged by a proportionally larger percentage of their Incomes being taken in tax, but rather that a tax like the HST is a tax not only on spending from earnings, but also a tax on spending from BORROWINGS.

And with the ratio of consumer indebtedness to disposable consumer incomes something like
$1.63 to $ 1.00, and still RISING, it is easy to see the attractiveness of this kind of tax to a government. It gets to tax your money BEFORE you’ve even earned it.

It enables them to service a larger, unrepayable debt load, and still appear as if they are doing things for us. But as we plunge ever deeper into consumer indebtedness, now often in many instances just to live, the demand for MORE from government will constantly increase.

If, as some are fond of suggesting, EVERYONE were to “live within their means”, as the saying goes, a far larger amount of those “means” would simply vanish for a great many more people. For ‘production’ without ‘consumption’ is a useless, losing proposition for all concerned. And it’s the current “living beyond their means” that’s keeping that production, and those jobs, going.

How many Swedes have you known that moved out here that ever wanted to move back to Sweden?

Know a few Norwegians and Swiss who moved back. Also, some Swedes who have picked the States over Canada.