Just a quick read on this article tells me that BC taxpayers have already been bilked for $152 Million dollars.

What do we get out of the fiasco.????

Alberta, with huge oil deposits, has had a huge deficit for the past five years. This years deficit is something like $6 Billion dollars. This is a result of them not getting the royalty money from oil and gas that they should be getting. Why??? Because the oil companies in Alberta are showing a loss, and therefore pay less royalties.

This LNG thing is a mugs game. If ever the people of BC need to do something now is the time.

The Australian LNG processing facilities are subsidized by the Government to the tune of 30,40,50% of the cost of building them. In order for BC to compete, we would have to make the same or better subsidies. Seems like that’s what we are going to do.

Why do we need to subsidize the industry if there is such a need for natural gas???

We really need some top of the line investigative reporters to take a serious look at whats going on. We know that the information from the Government and industry is not worth the paper its written on, mainly because they have a vested interest in the projects.

We the tax payers are once again getting screwed.

The LNG industry wants to be reclassified as a manufacturer so that they can write off all of their production costs. So at the end of the day we subsidize the building of the plant, and infrastructure, and then they pay no taxes. Furthermore they probably sell the gas to one of their overseas companies so all profits are made in foreign Countries, much like the oil that is sold at low prices to US refineries.

A good start is to get rid of these Liberals before they bankrupt the Province further., Then we need to have a hard look at the oil and gas industry with a view of having them pay their fair share of taxes.

Why do governments provide so many subsidies to corporate interests… especially for something like this that is a new and emerging industry?

Why not put that $152 million towards paying down the deficit or invest it in infrastructure that will actually help this province.

If the industry is viable, the proponents should have no problem generating enough revenue to be successful. Why do we give them tax dollars (sorry… credits…) just to help increase their profits? How does that benefit the people of this province?

I don’t understand the big rush to be considered ‘competitive’ in resource extraction. It’s not like the resources are going anywhere!

Governments should be there to set the cost of doing business. And if a corporation doesn’t like the cost they can go elsewhere and exploit the resources there.

Why give our resources away now, when they will be just as valuable in the future (if not more valuable as global consumption continues to increase)

All industry is subsidized, did you just wake up to that. Not getting the money for the oil, well that’s because we cannot get it to any other market so the yanks can pay us what they feel.

So its alright for so called green energy, electric cars and such to be subsidized? I get it now.

Bang on seamutt. Who cares about keeping these industries competitive, right? Let them go elsewhere.

Oh, and by the way, I’d like low taxes and fully funded schools, hospitals, and infrastructure while we’re making a wish list.

Seamutt. When are you going to get the picture. The oil in Alberta is owned by the Oil Companies. They pay the Government royalties on the oil extracted. They sell this oil cheap to the USA, thus paying less for royalties, and then after its refined (by the same companies) they make a profit on the finished product.

How are you going to force these companies to sell their oil elsewhere, they already have a lucrative deal as it is.

JohnnyBelt. What do you mean by being competitive??? Join the rush to the bottom.

The numbers given by the Liberals on the sale price of this gas once sold (if ever) are pure hogwash. There is natural gas all over the world, and the price will be low for years to come. The LNG companies, will make a profit, only because the plants, and infrastructure, will be built and paid for with tax dollars.

As a matter of interest China has a 300 year domestic supply of natural gas, so don’t expect any big sales there.

Hey boys what the hell happened to free enterprize? Big problem is the tax credits they already gave oil and gas for building roads and infrastructure,Clark boasted over $900 million last year and when they start pumping gas we will get the money back maybe. Now another $120 million, before we see a dime maybe in 15-20 years. You dont sell the farm to buy the hay.Alberta in trouble same shit, tax credits to the point no tax revenue hitting government.

Nice to see you know what’s going on steph99. Its refreshing to say the least.

Bang on Pal.
Cheers

How does that song go ” giveitawatgiveitawaygiveitaway!”

L N G

Liberal Noxious Gas ? ?

Absolutely right, Palopu. This mob has hosed us long enough, they’ve got to go.

Palopu its the buying not the selling. Can you back up your information?

“Western Canadian oil companies have seen the price of their crude drop as a result of the lack of pipeline outlets from landlocked U.S. markets, coupled with growing U.S. production and unplanned refinery shutdowns.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/why-canadian-crude-is-selling-for-less/article2331655/

Seamutt. Who do you think these Western Canadian Oil Companies are??? They are the same as the oil Companies in the USA and Europe, and the rest of the world.

As an example. The name of the oil companies that are producing and shipping natural gas from Australia are Chevron, Shell,Texaco, Exxon, Ampol, etc;

These are multi national companies. Canada does not own any oil companies. They are all foreign owned, or at the minimum majority owned by foreign companies.

Sooooo. When these companies export crude oil to the USA, they export it to their own refineries, refine the oil and then sell it on the open market. It just that simple.

The problem is that they can claim that the high cost of production, shipping, and the low price paid for the crude makes it impossible for them to make a profit. The royalties are paid based on the sale price of the product. As a result the Province of Alberta is losing money big time.

The small refinery in Prince George is owned by Husky Oil. Husky Oil, is owned by a company in Hong Kong.

These guys have the oil and gas industry tied up and have had it tied up for over 100 years. China at some point will just become one more member of the oil cartel. They will not be our saving grace.

The Libs giving the resources away or shall we say paying someone to take them. All that will result from this gov’t intervention is a higher heating bill for the homeowner.
Only a couple more months of Lib lies and feeding at the trough before the Libs are gone, and hopefully forever.

LNG = Lieberals No Good

These links will back up what Palupo said.

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.ca/2013/02/british-columbias-lng-corporate-welfare.html

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2013/01/29/Canadian-Oil-Producers/

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.ca/2013/02/british-columbias-natural-gas.html

http://thetyee.ca/News/2013/02/20/Natural-Gas-Gluts/

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2013/02/21/Why-Cant-Alberta-Break-Even/

And just look at the disaster in Australia, all LNG projects 30%..40%..50%..100% over budget.

http://www.afr.com/p/national/huge_lng_cost_blowout_kaLHigEKnRVunB0go7TRkJ

http://www.arcticgas.gov/2012/cost-overruns-could-hurt-competitiveness-australia-lng

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/epic/bgdot/9244190/BG-Group-shares-hit-by-5.4bn-cost-overruns-on-Australian-LNG-project.html

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/62e4f5e8-3f84-11e2-b0ce-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2KdUKKDdT

http://www.smh.com.au/business/too-much-too-soon-has-left-lng-industry-overstretched-20120803-23kit.html

http://www.downstreamtoday.com/news/article.aspx?a_id=36651&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

[url]http://www.forexlive.com/blog/2012/11/19/shell-having-second-thoughts-on-australian-lng-investments/[url]

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/11/drunken-insights-lead-the-lng-debacle/

Read those articles first, educate yourselves, learn the real facts, understand the Straight Goods on LNG and industry before making fools out of yourselves…With respect.

Cheers

T

Oops, missed one

http://www.forexlive.com/blog/2012/11/19/shell-having-second-thoughts-on-australian-lng-investments/

Today Joe(who) Oliver issued an export license, that`s the third one so far, the first one was issued 3 years ago, the outfits can`t get any longterm energy buying commitments, that`s why nothing has been built.

Chenier energy in the USA signed some longterm energy buying contracts with Japan, at less than half(40%) of the price Christy Clark yaps about.

At $8 dollars per unit.

At that price these LNG plants won`t make any money let alone pay for themselves…

Unless they get huge subsidies and free hydro electric power, and even at that there won`t by even 1/50 th of the royalties that Christy Clark espouses.

And as for today`s energy summit in Vancouver, the BC Government is hosting it, sent out write-offable invitations to industry, so in fact we taxpayers have to pay for the spin-cycle too.

Ask yourself, do you really believe the oil n gas industry would allow BC to make $trillions?..Really, are you that gullible or that desperate.

I`m not pooh-fooing the industry, let`s shoot for one LNG plant and hope it males a little money..

1 in the hand is worth $trillions in the bush.

Good Day

palpou, you have a stunning lack of knowledge of the oil patch. Stick to bitching about the city. You abviously are out of your leaque on oil and gas ownership, royalties and the effects on an economy.

By the way China is decades away from coming close to meeting there gas demand domstically. As well, there is large Canadian ownership in the patch. Cresent point, pennwest,encana suncore, pengrowth, etc. Do you think for a second they wouldn’t want to get $90 instead of $60 for their oil? They don’t own refineries. Your spewing crap.

dow7500, WE can easily SEE the effects on an economy. And so can you. The only benefits are gained by parasites that play with figures to their own (short-term) advantage while they further bugger up our already buggered up financial system.

Resident said it precisely above when he wrote:- “The Libs giving the resources away or shall we say paying someone to take them. All that will result from this gov’t intervention is a higher heating bill for the homeowner.”

A lot of people here are finally getting tired at being told we have to ‘work’ at going broke, and more and more are beginning to realise there’s simply no sense in doing that.

We give the best of our resources away, and are left with the overpriced leavings here ~ and this is supposed to be an economic ‘advancement’? Time people woke up and sent that cow and the rest of her Liberal herd to the slaugterhouse. Maybe they’ll make passable dog-food, or a good substitute for Ikea meatballs.

China doesn`t need to meet its own demand, they are next door to Russia, Siberia muskey is awash in natural gas, a major pipeline has just been completed from Kazakhastan to China, with several spur lines, enough gas from that one pipeline and spurlines will service 600 million Chinese.

That`s half the Chinese market already gone, Russia is the world`s largest supplier of gas.

@Dow7500.

Alberta oil won`t get a world price, it`s inferior heavy oil.

It has to go through an upgrader first, then on to a regular refiner, the heavy tar oil needs condensate(like paint thinner) just to make it flow through a pipe.

All that costs money, why would you think that oil would get the price of Mexico sweet crude or Brent?

Tar oil costs way more money to process it.

Research research research.

Cheers

Criminal.not all alberta oil is heavy. the oil sands/cold lake/peace river east is all heavey. Zama south to montana is mostly light sweet. The Bakken formation in sask is as well. I’ve worked and owned companies in the patch. I’ve forgotten more than you know.

It blows me away the myopic vision and ignorance on this board. We have a huge opportunity with this NE gas. Jobs,royalties, power production, yet
most posters think its a giant scam to screw taxpayers. Only in BC.

I think I am going to invest in tin foil hat futures.

“I’ve worked and owned companies in the patch. I’ve forgotten more than you know.”

All that money you made and here you are, arguing with a bunch of rubes.

Like I said, let them build, they have money, they export licenses, what are they waiting for?

If there really is $trillions to be made they shouldn`t need a 30% capital investment break, build away, let`s just say we`ll forgo that capital build subsidy, they can take it out of future royalty payments to the province.

Stop talking, stop yammering away, build, what part of 3 count em, 3 export licenses granted don`t you understand, no one has said no, not the NDP, not me, no one, just build, what`s the delay.

If there are $trillions available, go for it.

The Haisla nation is OK with LNG, the Liberals are, the NDP is, export licenses been granted, what`s the problem?

Let me guess, longterm energy buying contracts with Asia, well, such is life.

And let`s look at the BC Movie industry, they want more subsidies, more tax credits, the relief for the movie business has been raised over and over again, now even within Canada, Ontario and Quebec have lowered the bar, competition from other provinces within Canada, other provinces poaching business from BC.

Russia is awash in natural gas, Iran, Iraq, Qatar, Australia, Africa, Alberta, BC, USA, all the Stan countries have tons of natural gas, China has a 300 year domestic supply, and no, it won`t take China decades to develop their own gas, cmon, China doesn`t have a environmental movement or environmental protections.

There are more countries with available natural gas for sale than there are buyers.

And you don`t think countries without market share won`t lower the price?

Alberta running massive deficits, heritage fund depleted, nothing added to it, Alberta is moving to a provincial sales tax to pay their bills, record production of tar oil and record deficits.

Oh, but I forgot, you`re the expert, all those oil patch companies you owned, now content to post comments with us rubes.

Now that is funny.

Cheers

crusty jus go away… you are not gonna win chit….

I think you better read this Dow7500

http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/asia-pacific/sellers+find+Asian+markets+pushover/8015715/story.html

From the Vancouver sun(tonight, February 25th/2013), it describes everything I just said,.It describes the price of natural gas falling fast, how Asia wants better terms, it talks about competition from Africa, it talks about BC not receiving anything close to what Christy Clark proclaimed.

The story goes on how Asia wants new pricing not tied to the price of oil.

Ah, but what the hell, I`m just a dumbass rube, and you Dow7500 have forgotten more than I know.

Go figure, I guess I just got lucky with that earlier stuff.

Fancy that

How ‘rich’ did we all get from north-east coal a few decades ago when that was touted as our great economic salvation as we sent never -ending carloads of it from Tumbler Ridge to Asia?

How ‘rich’ have we got from all the hype surrounding bio-mass, and the endless global market for wood pellets?

How did that previous endless market overseas for pulp chips ever pan out back when we started shipping them out en masse?

How come many of those pulp and paper mills we built to sell into those global markets are now down to whether they get a break on their property taxes being the deciding factor on whether to try to keep going or not?

How come governments that keep blowing their own horns about all the ‘jobs’ they’re going to create don’t ever talk about whether the ‘incomes’ from those ‘jobs’ are going to ever be enough to buy the products produced, or their exchange through international ‘trade’?

And if they aren’t NOW, how can they be when we’re all told we have to work harder, and longer, and for LESS to be ‘globally competitive’?

Race to the bottom, indeed! And now we’re expected to swallow this latest swill that LNG will be our economic salvation from a group that’s supposed to be ‘business oriented’ but has rung up more debt with less to show for it than any of their predecessors?

Criminalmind is a guy who spews the same crap over dozens of websites under various names, likely from his mom’s basement. Take his opinion with a grain of salt.

Johnny, Fuck off..

Those links are from a dozen expert opinions.

You are a fucking braindead troll, all you do is compliment your knuckledragging friends who comment and disparage everyone else, and then you going crying for the opinion 250 moderator.

Fuck are you an idiot!

Does your mom know you use this kind of language?

Hey Johnnybelt, maybe nobody has told you directly but your comments, you come across as uneducated, nothing to add to any post.

And for that I feel sorry for you, beauty might be skin deep, but dumb is forever.

You don’t build multi billion dollar projects overnight crimnal mind, criminalthought or whatever your spam name is. I’ll give you that as more LNG comes online the price will be effected. However we are talking decades long demand. Japan, Korea are all big long term consumers. And north american consumption is in a long term uptrend. I’ll also give you that you are “dumbass rube”. That was never in doubt. Johnny a troll? you are the posterchild of a troll.

Socreible, I guess we should stop all and any development because its destined to fail. Hope you know how to grow potatoes, I assume you need to eat.

I have to agree with dow on the troll comments, crim.

And I hate to burst your bubble, but I don’t care what you think. I would have thought a smart guy like you would’ve figured that out by now.

“all you do is compliment your knuckledragging friends who comment and disparage everyone else, and then you going crying for the opinion 250 moderator.”

Exactly, and by the way, nobody was talking with you, you added nothing to this thread or any thread, you never do, just wasted space and words.

Dow7500..Like I said, I`m not against LNG, build away, what are they waiting for, your argument, you should take it up with Apache or Chevron, or Shell or EnCana gas.

They have export licenses, there is nobody stopping them from building, you in fact are arguing with yourself.

Seems to me, the reason they aren`t, or haven`t built is because of a lack of signed longterm contracts for the right price…Maybe you and your friend Johnny should put a call in to Bejiing and Japan and persuade THEM to sign deals.

“Exactly, and by the way, nobody was talking with you, you added nothing to this thread or any thread, you never do, just wasted space and words.”

I’m not sure how that’s different than spamming the same old links from your favorite blog sites in any story that mentions LNG or Enbridge.

Just because you read it on the internet, it doesn’t make it true. Expand your horizons a little bit.

Our polititians have screwd our economy with the idea that we have o be in a global market. Which is a rightwing idea to maximize the profit of our corporations. And at thrate we are going the middle class will disappear.

There are some really good posts on the present subjet but it is unfortunate that it had to end with bullying. You know the old saying ,”if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen,”
Cheers

Whats stopping them from building. Howabout pipeline approval. Export liscences are a start but pipeline regulatory approval is needed. Get it?

No, dow7500, ‘all’ development ISN’T destined to fail. But how many times have we been sold the same story that this one or that one is going to lead to some kind of economic nirvanah? These ‘global markets’ that we trip all over ourselves with dollars signs in our eyes to try to secure are in countries that have honed to a science their ability at playing one would-be supplier off against another one. We might end up selling them some LNG, but the chances that this is going to be the great salvation for the BC economy? Pure fantasy from a desperate little girl who’s completely bereft of any new ideas.

I’m not sold on economic nirvanah either. But we have a huge resource to which the extent of it was not known 5-10 years ago and still isn’t. We have some of the worlds biggest players involved with a solid long term demand for gas globaly. Yes, this isn’t the only source on the planet. But to crap on the opportuinity is so typical of this province.

Can’t wait for what to see what the leftards economic plan would be. Grow the civil service? Eco tourism?

By the way whats your new ideas?

Pure fantasy from a desperate little girl who’s completely bereft of any new ideas.
======================================Cant Cant get more acurate then that.
Cheers

“Leftards” or “Rightards”, what does it matter, dow7500? NEITHER one proposes anything that increases OUR standard of living at a faster rate than our COST of living. Rather each oversees the exact opposite, and it’s only arguable whose method is faster at putting us in the poorhouse.

The gap overall between ‘incomes’ and ‘prices’, (and taxes, which can be viewed as the involuntary ‘prices’ of services provided by government ), just keeps getting greater and greater for more and more British Columbians.

Shrinking THAT gap is the measure of true ‘prosperity’ for ALL the people of British Columbia. But neither the Liberals nor the NDP have managed to do that, and I just don’t see that happening with LNG either.

We’re about to dump still another product on the global market where the price we’ll get for it will be continually declining due to increased supply. From here, and everywhere else the potential buyers have conned into increasing their LNG exports as the ticket to their prosperity, same as it’s now supposed to be for ours. While our costs of production will continually be rising. Of course, theirs will be, too. And to offset that ALL the producers will do as they always try to do ~ produce ‘more’ than their competitor. And down goes the price again.

Just to try to get back the initial investment will preclude any bonanza from royalties, while the worst part, the inflation induced here by building all the infrastructure will put us in a worse position than we’re in right now vis-a-vis all our other exports.

There are no ‘new ideas’ from either of the current main contenders, just a constant rehash of the same failed ones that have got us into the financial mess we’re currently in. While they pretend they’re now going to somehow produce a different result than they previously have.

It’s time to stop pretending we’re going to win some global competition to supply the world with cheaper products, when WE’RE the ones increasingly paying through the nose for that dubious privilege.

As a resource rich Province we should be ‘free’ to share our bountiful abundance with those with whom we can enjoy a mutual benefit through a reciprocal exchange of alternate real wealth. Not ‘forced’ to beggar ourselves stripping our abundance to exhaustion with nothing of lasting value to show for it.

You want ‘new ideas’? Look first where we HAVEN’T been looking ~ at the ACTUAL relationships between ‘production’ and ‘consumption’ and ‘money’, and make NO assumptions that the ‘figures’ of that last properly REFLECT the ‘facts’ of the former two until we do.

brand new link, fresh today, just for you Dow7500 and my good friend Johnnybelt..Here`s a quote, you can read the rest…

“U.S. energy acquisitions may soar after Cnooc this month won approval from the U.S. Committee on Foreign Investment to buy Nexen Inc. (NXY) for $15.1 billion. Chinese companies are seeking energy assets globally to lock in supplies for the world’s fastest growing major economy and access technology to retrieve fuel trapped in rocks that has driven U.S. oil production to the highest in almost 21 years.

“While Chesapeake has many quality assets, Chinese oil companies care more about their drilling and shale-fracking technology,” Laban Yu, Hong Kong-based analyst at Jefferies Group Inc., said in a telephone interview. “The reason Chinese oil companies have gone after Chesapeake in the past year was also because they wanted to apply the technology to tap the world’s No.1 shale gas reserves in China.”

http://fuelfix.com/blog/2013/02/25/sinopec-to-buy-chesapeake-energy-assets-for-1-02-billion/

Looks like China is acquiring fracking technology from the source, from a BC player, and guess where Sinopec is planning on Fracking, in the world`s largest natural gas reserves, China!..

30 years you said Dow7500.

Shockwaves must be rumbling through Victoria after this story.

Game-over.

Cheers

You haven’t been booted off the site yet for your f-bomb laden post above?

Man, the site administrators must be asleep at the switch.

“all you do is compliment your knuckledragging friends who comment and disparage everyone else, and then you going crying for the opinion 250 moderator.”

Here`s Johnny

Cheers

Hi Johnnybelt, you aren`t still mad are you?

Spittle and broken keyboards are no way to go through life, you need to chill brother Johnny…Maybe yoga..aaaahhhmmm aaaahhhmmm.

Meditation, green tea, how about Sudoko?

Anywho, here`s another article I ran across earlier today.

Enjoy.

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.ca/2013/02/christy-clark-and-bc-liberals-should.html

Actually criminal I suspect Johnny is quote relaxed. Him, much like myself, doesnt really care what you think besides growing tired of your constant spam. Now, judging from the number of times you threw the F word out in your previous post I suspect it may be you who should look into blood pressure medication. :)

I would agree with you interceptor, but criminalmind doesn’t seem to like that very much. ;-)

He certainly didn’t like it when I pointed out that he spams several websites with the same drivel under various names.

Take note crim, today is anti-bullying day.

http://www.pinkshirtday.ca/

Thats not news criminal. That is why they haven’t exploited their reserves. They don’t know how. Now obviously they will at some point but you don’t flip a switch and get gas production.

shockwaves??? Don’t be a drame queen.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/energy-resources/sellers+find+Asian+markets+pushover/8017591/story.html

I’m hopeful for these developments, would much prefer NG to piping DILBIT across the mountains. But I feel as though Kristy is blowing some sunshine up my arse.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/energy-resources/optimism+tempered+uncertain+market+prices+geography/8014873/story.html?__lsa=c12a-cb08