I think the word you were looking for is FLOUT, not flaunt. ;-)

And are you picking on JohnnyB Ben?

I have to agree for the most part. But I do know that some kids rise above their loser parents because they don’t want to be like mum and dad. I know parents that drill the rules into their kids and they still end up being loser kids. I think the bigger problem is disrespect for authority period. There are very little consequences for their actions. They are brought up in a school where everyone gets a ribbon and no one gets the strap. So yes blame the parents but society as a whole plays a bigger role.

Why is it the parents with the most poor behaviour kids blame others for their kids behaviour, you are correct Ben, it does start by learning from adults. The kids see the parents not taking responsibility, or making the kid take responsibility for their actions and the cycle continues. Then our legal system on tines with minimal or no consequences for their actions.

Bang on Ben. There are a huge number of people in this town who feel the rules and etiquette of society don’t apply to them.

Kids see the adults ignoring the sign or whatever it might be, then the kid imitates the behaviour. Parenting is definitely a lost art.

Translation: It’s all the parents fault for not setting a good example. boo hoo hoo.

When a child is successful it is not hard to find schools, churches, teachers, politicians, cities, etc… willing to jump in and take credit for their wins.

When a child fails though, it’s always mummy and daddy’s fault.

The only person missing from success or failure is the kid. Maybe this is the real failing of our “society,” (what a lazy word).

You never see or hear of politicians, popes, CEOs or other executives going to jail for crimes and fraud they committed, and somehow “society” is okay with this.

Sorry pojeb, parents have the biggest influence in children’s early lives. Whether they know it or not, parents lead by example.

Yes, sometimes kids make bad choices or fall through the cracks even with good parents, but more often than not, it’s the parents that have the most influence.

You raise them the best you can. Some turn out good, some don’t.

The apple never falls too far from the tree ! Bad roots produces bad fruit ! Some kids don’t stand a chance !
As for the traffic enforcers……they need to be a professional, specialized unit taken away from the RCMP. They don’t need to be highly trained police officers in all aspects of police work to write a ticket. It is no secret most traffic cops in the RCMP are there because they can’t do real police work.

Many years ago, I read a couple of reports that coined the phrase “the feminization of the nation” The reports suggested that approximately 30 years ago, we started to see a shift in our society that was encouraged by our educators and our social workers. We started to see what was considered to be a kinder and more gentle society. The majority of teachers and social workers were and still are female and we began to see a movement towards more feminine treatment towards others. Little boys were discouraged from playing with G.I. Joe and were instead encouraged to play with Barbie. Fighting between little boys was deemed to be unacceptable behaviour, even though little boys have wrestled and fought with each other since little boys first appeared. Little boys were no longer allowed to beat each other up, even though they were still best friends 10 minutes after the wrestling match or fight ended. Aggressive acting out behaviour became a BAD thing. Even playing Cowboys and Indians became socially unacceptable!

Along with this shift, society also saw a movement towards unaccountability for one’s own actions. Young children were no longer held accountable for their actions as punishment was no longer acceptable. Didn’t do your homework? Don’t worry, we’ll still pass you because to do otherwise would damage your sense of self-worth. Children no longer won first place in school sporting events because those that didn’t win would be sad and their feelings would be hurt if they didn’t get a ribbon too! Children were encouraged to focus on what they wanted to do in school, instead of everybody being required to learn reading, writing and arithmetic. Everyone was encouraged to succeed on their own terms! No one was required to accept blame for their actions or inactions! It’s not my fault became the cry of the day!!

In days gone by, parents were allowed to punish their children, at times even using corporal punishment. I’m not saying that beating the crap out of your child is acceptable, but even a little swat on their bottom was no longer considered acceptable and was considered abuse by social workers who were more than willing to take your child away from you!

Children learned that they could do what they wanted when they wanted and they could do so without any negative repercussions! These children are now adults and young adults! They expect a job and it’s paycheque, but they don’t think that they should have to do any work! They think that they should have it all, without having to earn it all. After all, that’s what they experienced in their formative years.

The funny thing is that now after 30 years or so of the feminization of the nation, some of our educators, our social workers and our child rearing experts and now suggesting that we have a problem, to which I always respond “Yes we do and it’s you and others in your field that caused it”!!

So now who’s fault is it that our youth have no respect for authority and many have little respect for the rule of law? Don’t blame me because IT’S NOT MY FAULT!!

Hart Guy, I would say that the accountability issue is much larger than the “faminization” of society. I do believe that making each child feel special no matter how they perform is not the way to raise children but it goes deeper than that. It also has to do with the baby boomers, two working parent families and the impact that the media and corporations have on our lives.

You mention that little boys have always fought and I have to admit that I like how men can fight and then be friends again. Women aren’t very good in that respect BUT I believe that there wouldn’t be as many wars and violent acts in our world if more women governed.

Ben, you’re right about children watching their parents but isn’t that the way it has always been? It certainly isn’t new to this generation. That said, I really think parents need to remind themselves daily that their children are watching them. I know I cringe when I see one of my children acting out something I have done or said.

You could take this discussion to all sorts of places. It could be asked whether our laws are the product of protecting the financial interests of our crown owned monopoly insurance corporation? When policing ,law making and insurance are orchestrated for the purposes of money/revenue above the specific purposes of safety it is likely that people will in fact be very unhappy with that.

Are laws made so that this insurance corporation doesn’t have to provide coverage for claims because a law is broken? Is it fair that you are not entitled to insurance for your vehicle because you were not wearing a seatbelt even though the seatbelt had nothing to do with why an accident was caused?

Just goes to show what happens when those who are not social scientists start dissecting matters pertaining to social science.

As for a kinder, gentler world if more women are in power, just keep in mind Golda Meyer (sp?), Margaret Thatcher, and Indira Ghandi, or more recently, Hillary Clinton as secretary of state in the USA.

I like that “faminization”! Might cure the current obesity issue! :)

Krusty, you live up to your name. Obviously I made a typo and it should have read feminization.

You mention 4 females but I bet in the time it took you to write down 4 female names, you could probably think of 20+ males who could be considered warlords, dictators, etc. History makes your argument invalid.

As to “those who are not social scientists” discussing social matters, who made the rule that ONLY social scientists could discuss societal matters?

Im currently sitting in my office watching a customer chase their child around my store. It’s been going on for 20 minutes while her hsuband shops. Its been 20 minutes of no sweetie, no poopsie, no junior, put that down, put that back, dont play with that (some very expensive things btw). The kid is screaming, running around, including leaving the front door and running across a busy industrial street while “poor mummy” runs after him, gently chiding him to be careful, come back.
I will be amazed if the kid makes it to 12 and if he does, he wont have a flipping clue what “no” means.

Just thought this whole scenario was interesting considering It was occuring while I was reading this story.

Parenting does seem to be a lost art, certainly is to those who weren’t parented themselves.

It may start with the parents bit at the end it is our justice system that is a complete joke. Our kids could do no wrong when they grow up but when they break the law when they get older it is a slap on the wrist and so the get used to that. Lets get real a person can kill someone while driving drunk an only get 5 year that is pathetic everyone is at fault doesn’t matter who you are and we all have to deal with it.

“When we are looking for the reasons for an increase in the disregard of the law we very rarely look at the root cause of the problem, “us”.”

I am going to take this in a different direction by making the following hypothesis:

“When we are looking for the reasons for an increase in the disregard of the law we very rarely look at the root cause of the problem, a proliferation of the number of laws, no matter which aspect of our lives we are examining”

Corollary of the above hypothesis

1.The more laws, the more likely that frivolous laws will increase.

2.The more laws, the more likely it is that there will be an increase in laws which are difficult for the average person to understand.

3.The more laws, the more opportunities there will be to find a legal way to circumvent the laws. (this puts the matter into the realm of ethics, not the legal realm)

A current good example of a law which I believe falls under all three of the corollaries is the law in New York City regarding large sized, sugar-laden drinks which the courts struck down just prior to implementation.

A good example of number 2 is the merge signs and the law associated with them. To put it simply, there is no law in the MVA which addresses how to properly merge. It is a matter of courtesy supplemented by the desire to stay alive.

Born, I didn’t say ‘discuss’, I said ‘dissect’ and there’s a difference. You and I can discuss whatever we choose, but I refrain from making too many declarative statements about areas of study that I have no education or training in. It would be nice if others held a similar persepctive, but then I guess O250 wouldn’t be the great fun that it is.

As for my statement about female vs. male leaders, I don’t see how history makes my statement invalid at all. Quick, name all the current female heads of state off the top of your head! Didn’t think so, nor could I. But this is because there are far more male heads of state, both currently and of the dead-but-depotic variety. Simple availability heuristic, really.

On Friday free for all axman suggested that when making a right hand turn at intersections such as Ospika and 15th, they not move to the right prior to the turn, thus blocking the bike lane and passing a vehicle on the right.

From the MVA here is the regulation

Turning at intersections
165 (1) If the driver of a vehicle intends to turn it to the right at an intersection, the driver must cause it to approach the intersection and then make the turn AS CLOSE AS PRACTICABLE TO THE RIGHT HAND CURB OR EDGE OF THE ROADWAY.

As I wrote previously, “the more laws, the more likely it is that there will be an increase in laws which are difficult for the average person to understand.”

So who understands that law when it comes to including a bicycle lane? or “passing” on the right when the right lane is wide enough for two vehicles.

Confusion reigns when signage, line painting, road cleaning, etc. as well as laws which are open to interpretation add to the other factors which contribute to the so-called disregard of the law.

“On Friday free for all axman suggested that when making a right hand turn at intersections such as Ospika and 15th, they not move to the right prior to the turn, thus blocking the bike lane and passing a vehicle on the right.”

Did I say that? I thought I was just pointing out that there is no right hand turn lane at that particular intersection. Squeezing a car between the car in the right hand lane and the sidewalk is illegal at that spot.

Personally, I think that we have so many bad drivers simply because we have so many stupid people.

“Squeezing a car between the car in the right hand lane and the sidewalk is illegal at that spot.”

You can’t read, can you?

“AS CLOSE AS PRACTICABLE TO THE RIGHT HAND CURB OR EDGE OF THE ROADWAY.”

Since it is still impossible to see the lines for what is assumed to be a bike lane, even though it is not signed as such, the lines there shoukd be broken lines as they are all the way along Ospika from 15th to 5th. Since the pavement is new there, the lines are still visible for the time being. The solid line turns to three dashed lines right at each sidestreet intersection.

Here is the reason why – safety!!!

If there were actually people using bicycles in thos city so that more often than not a bicyclist woukld be occupying that lane or, worse still, coming up from behind, the car making the righthand turn woulkd have to look into the mirrors and then over their shoulders to make sure they have not missed any blindspots before they would be able to make the turn.

In fact, since bicycles are vehicles and must obey traffic laws, this woukd be no different than a car making a right turn from the lane to the left of the lane closest to the curb. Obviously, that is not allowed.

So, it is far safer, when there is room, and there is at that spot unless someone is hugging the right line, does not have a turn signal on, and has no intention of turning, to see if the bike lane is clear move to the right as close as possible to the curb as is written in the MVA, and thus be cleared to makje a right hand turn,not only when the signal changes to green, but also when the light is red and 15th is clear of traffic an one can make the reight hand turn to the right.

But hey, go ahead and make your own rules and continue to put bicyclist in jeopardy.

I can read; thanks for asking but I am starting to wonder about you though.

There is no right turn lane there.

There you go; I even made sure it was all single syllable words just for you.

You are permitted to make a right hand turn from the right hand lane -and yes, once past the solid white line you should get close to the curb. However, you are not allowed to make your own lane. It’s really quite simple. When you see three cars lined up when there are only two lanes some one is in the wrong. And chances are it’s the idiot who thinks he or she has a dedicated right turn lane.

“There is no right turn lane there.”

Right, as in a dedicated lane with an arrow on the road and a sign posted for the winter time, when any road paintings are virtually invisible, which says right turn lane only.

I am not talking about a right turn lane. How long does it take you to figure out the difference between designated turning lanes as well as designated lanes from which one cannot make a turn.

As to being allowed to make your own lane if passing on the right to make a right turn, it is actually in a part of the BC MVA dealing with another matter.

I actually prefer this discussion of the same matter. While it is a BC discussion, it also includes this:

Oregon Law: Car waits for cyclist to pass, then turns right from the “car” lane. – That would be your point of view.

California Law: Car enters bike lane, cyclist waits for car, car makes the turn. That is my point of view as I wrote previously …..

As the discussion states, BC law is silent on the issue or at best, unclear.

And this City is complicit in that silence since they have no consistent way of signing it with road markings or overhead or other signs.

One thing I now for sure. A judge is likely to throw it out of court. I have goen to court twice on tickets for similar violations and won both times. One was here in PG dealing with a left hand turn at the Bypass and 5th avenue intersection.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/672261-lane-markings-cyclists-mva.html

Actually, I never went to court on the local one. When I entered my argument, citing the MVA, the crown withdrew their case.

http://www.sfbike.org/?bikelane_right_turns

California has a larger population than Canada and likely many more bicyclists than Oregon has citizens. They can’t be all wrong. In fact, I think they are dammed safe!!

Notice that the bike lane line is broken at the intersection, that the bike lane is narrower than a car lane, and that the car is sitting ahead of the bike.

In my opinion, it becomes rather obvious to see how dangerous the scenario on the left can be once one looks at a diagram.

From the California law:

The guiding principle is to always make a right turn from the right lane — or “Turn from the Curb.” Turning across lanes is a big no-no, since it can result in crashes and near-crashes, especially “right hook” collisions.

THAT is the guiding principle of the BC MVA as well. There is nothing that differentiates lanes as to car lanes and bike lanes. Absolutely nothing in the MVA!!

BTW, if it were against the law here, the RCMP could make a mint every morning when many people from the North Nechako drive to work via foothills, then 15th, and turn at Ospika.

Watch them, one behind the other, pass on the right of the cars waiting to go east on 15th so that they can make a right hand turn on a red and keep traffic flowing.

If one is more visually oriented here is a good example to follow from that crazy flat land, Saskatchewan.

http://www.sgi.sk.ca/individuals/licensing/studyguides/drivershandbook/roadrules/turning.html

watch the animated clip titled “Watch Now: Right turns – Correct” in that case with a wider right lane due to parking spaces which was the original reason why 15th and Ospika were designed as wide as they are.

The root cause of the problem are the ridiculous numbers of bleeding hearts in our society.

That’s the bottom line!

Dragonmaster, truer words are seldom spoken!