About a week before the provincial election was called, I got a call from Mark Hume at the Globe and Mail asking me what I thought was going to happen in the upcoming provincial BC election.
I said, based on what I was hearing around the community, that Shirley Bond had about a 3 out of 10 chance of getting re-elected . That story ran on April 18th and since then a lot has changed, including my mind.
I think that both Mike Morris and Shirley Bond have been making some strong inroads into their chance of election ( or re-election as the case may be). I don’t have a scientific poll or some other system of prediction, this is simply a gut reaction.
The NDP came out of the gate like a Tomahawk missile, but then I don’t know what happened. Suddenly the momentum seems to have switched to the Liberals and I now think that Bond and Morris have a horse race going.
You almost get the sense that there is going to be a lot of voters holding their nose when they mark their ballot, even though they may still be angry about the HST.
When you look at an 8-10 point spread and then you move 5% of that number either way, ( plus or minus for error) you suddenly have a political race in this province .
It sort of reminds me of the previous election when heading into the final months of the Liberal government, Carol James of the NDP was ahead front and center only to be knocked off by Campbell in the dying weeks of the campaign. It cost her the position as head of the NDP .
I even went so far on this occasion as to make a couple of friendly bets with a couple of people in the lower mainland. It was my position that the Liberals would be holding their caucus meetings in a Corvette or at the very most in a Volkswagen bus. Don’t however rule them out quite yet, I think I have already lost my bet and with a week to go, it is very hard to make a prediction.
This provincial election has turned from being a yawner to, at least in this area, a real horse race.
I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.
Comments
No mention of Rustad. I don’t think he has a horse. Don’t discount those of us in Nechako Lakes. We WILL be an NDP riding with an MLA who tells the truth. The most important issue to us is the health of our environment and our people,only the NDP candidate seems to share our values. Rustad has been a dismal failure for us all.
And you think Adrian Dix of all people, the New Debt Party, and the BC unions are going to “save” us proudgammi and lead our children and grandchildren, into prosperity ?
The last time we endured ten years of NDP politics, every time I traveled to another Province, and was asked “what on earth is happening out there in beautiful BC”,
the only answer I found that seemed to explain everything in a few words was “the unions got in”.
That always produced a knowing look and an “ooohh – I see” !!
I’m so not looking forward to having to do that again and yes – I was also a card carrying union member back then too.
Fully agree! The last time we endured ten years of NDP politics I spent a couple of days in Prince Report. The atmosphere was utter doom and gloom. High unemployment, the dispute with the fishing fleet resulted in a blockade of the US ferries, the B.C. premier had picked a fight with the Americans and the federal environment minister about salmon fishing, there was a dispute with the US about some leased torpedo testing site on the coast, the governors of Washington State and Oregon were meeting and the Alberta premier was there too but the B.C. premier was NOT invited and so forth. Utter desperation and negativity!
Go to Rupert today and take a look how the city has recovered from this NDP induced coma!
Palomino, this bunk I keep hearing about prosperity for our children and grandchildren some time in the future, is not fooling anybody who knows what the Liberals have done to TODAY’S children. What about child poverty in BC today? Why should we be excited that sometime in the future, our children may be doing better. We wanted that ten years ago. It has only become worse in BC for children, we can’t afford to keep crossing our fingers that things will change. The liberals seem to only care about deep pockets, and turn their backs on families, children, and seniors.
Proudgammi, you must be from Smithers. The against everything party plans only raising taxes to pay for their promises. Now just where is that tax money going to come from, thin air.
Looks like I will be holding my nose.
Amazing the NDP would turn down 10 billion in projects.
I too went through the 90’s and it wasn’t nice. John Rustad will be around for a long time yet. Really surprised at Dix for picking the candidate he did for Nechako Lakes but just shows his thought process.
When I look at the political parties I see personalities in them. Past actions are future actions. Sometimes people change but not political parties.
Don’t want to see that again.
What I do want to see is a close race to ensure the ruling party is held accountable, hope that’s what we get.
I always have to smile when I hear that the NDP described as a New Debt Party. That would infer, of course, that there is also an Old Debt Party. Presumably they are the Socred/Liberal reincarnation.
Do I really need to remind people that our debt has more than doubled under the Liberals, and we now owe over $66 Billion, a large part of it under Christy. Compared to that, folks, the NDP are frugal indeed.
But wait, that’s not all, you will also get about $100 Billion debt from Crown and government owned corporations like BC Hydro. Partly this is direct debt, already borrowed and forked over to the Liberal government so they can continue their pretense of being magic money managers, and partly it is commitments made to purchase, at inflated prices, a product we don’t need – electricity from run of river projects forced on BC Hydro by the Liberal government to benefit their friends and supporters.
The real Debt Party in this election is the borrow and spend party, Christy’s Liberals.
For some reason that is beyond my comprehension those people who support the Liberals seem to have no comprehension of what has taken place in the Province since the Liberals were elected. All they can do is make **stupid** statements about what took place back in the 90’s.
Most of what is being spewed by these Liberal supporters is short on fact, and long on urban legend. When they talk about the Fast Cat Ferries, they never talk about the new ferries that the liberals built in Germany, that consume huge amounts of fuel, and cost a fortune to run, and for the most part sit idle. Why is that, could it be because they know nothing about these Ferries???
There have been a staggering number of mills that have shut down in BC since the Liberals came to power. The economy is always claimed as the reason, and rarely do we talk about appurtenance which allowed mills to close. Why is that??
There are many other examples of things they don’t like to talk about like the HST and increases in various service charges, huge spending on various projects, and of course putting the Province in debt to a point that it would make the NDP look like
like rank amateurs.
Just for clarification I am not a supporter of the NDP, and would not vote for them. l have on occasion voted for the Liberals however those days are gone.
Neither Party deserves the support of the people of BC unless they change their ways.
So lets ditch the urban legend, and deal with the facts, and let the chips fall where they may.
Electing Ogassawara instead of Bond would be a slap in the face of Democracy and shows the dark side of party politics. Bond has some say and influence, Ogassawara has talking points she has been told to repeat.
On Child Poverty, who are these kids parents? Shouldn’t we be trying to get these people to 1) get a better job (which we need a strong economy for) and 2) teaching them how not to have more kids that they can’t afford. How about this, we will give every low income mother a $300 a month bonus if they take their depo shot for birth control.
I think we can all agree that either party will be crap for BC. Each one has big skeletons in their closets and in 5 years we will likely be voting OUT another party rather than voting one IN…..
It’s going to be bad no matter which one gets in….
Horse race? The horse racing track is the only place where the windows “clean the people”.
Prince George..I’m sure that when you visited Prince Rupert it was after the Liberals got in, if there was high unemployment and doom and gloom as you recall.
It was after the Liberals got in that the pulp mill shut down, as well as all the sawmills in the area, throwing approximately 8000 people out of work in the area.
It has taken 12 years for things to turn around in that part of the province, mostly because of the price of commodities. Refresh your memory.
I think politics in general needs to shift back away from leaders and back to candidates. I hate this “Christy Clark’s Liberals” or “Adrian Dix and the NDP” slogans that they use. Let candidates vote based on riding needs and screw party politics
While I sit here on Okanagon Lake enjoying my tea, here is my comment. All around B.C. there is opportunity to be had and if you want to have it you just have to’ work’ for it. Yes, there is work! If you are not willing to go after it, then continue to sit and complain about how tough our times our. It takes all kinds to make conversation interesting.
It sucks when you have to try to win over those who make their minds up from hard won experience instead of “political spin” palopu.
And the only “stupid” comments on here that I’ve seen are from those who call us “stupid”.
Liberals better to manage the economy? Doubtful.
Campbell’s last election he had a read my lips 500 million dollar deficit that suddenly became 2.5 billion after the election.
BC rail 6 million dollar payout so the liberal upper echelon would not have to testify.
Liberal lies about the HST. Millions spent promoting the HST before the referendum.
IPP giveaways.
Transfer tax to 12%.
Emptying the coffers at ICBC instead of lowering insurance rates.
MSP premium massive increases.
Christy has increased the public debt by 11 billion dollars in only 2 years of her reign.
If you want 4 more years of lies and deceit Liberal is certainly the way to vote.
Baaaaa!
The NDP had the ‘Asian flu’ in the 90’s. The Liberals had the worldwide economic collapse. Does anyone truly believe the NDP would have fared better through that? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.
See you at the polls!
There is little doubt that BC debt increased dramatically in the last 5 years. However show me a jurisdiction federally or provincially where this was not the case. Perhaps the biggest recession since the 30’s was part of the reason. The 90’s were horrible for the province. This was during a huge global economic expansion. I realize the Liberals have several self-induced screw ups, but the NDP are and never will be an option for anyone with even a minimal understanding of a functioning economy.
You gotta love the dippers take on the 90’s. Pulling stats out justifying the decade as just fine. Anybody who lived it knows the truth.
Palpou, do you think that the pine beetle might have had something to do with mill closures? The NDP also threw millions at the money losing Skeena mills to keep them going. We all know how that turned out.
The Liberals are the only choice. Warts and all.
How to vote, bad or badder, or will that be badder or bad.
my2bits:”Prince George..I’m sure that when you visited Prince Rupert it was after the Liberals got in, if there was high unemployment and doom and gloom as you recall. …Refresh your memory.?
It was in September 1997! If anybody suffers from amnesia, it is you! Nice try, though! Twisting the facts to fit political agenda is a specialty of the NDP, as you well know!
Anything to score points including falsifying a memo.
If the general public hasn’t figured out that some politicians are merely puppets for the puppet masters, then the controllers have already won. They thrive on apathy and deception. Masters at keeping people focused on the distraction of the day so they can continue their power game virtually undetected. The only way to stop this is to stop buying into the rhetoric, vote your conscience, and expose the wizard. Geez…wake up! No party is going to save you.
(examples: nestle CEO wants to remove water as human right; wto just told Ontario they aren’t allowed to produce alternative energy,…the list goes on.)
JohnnyBelt, you said it! So did dow7500!
The Liberals with all their faults managed to shield us a lot from the global meltdown and the after effects of the beetle epidemic, all the while building new hospitals, schools, bridges and highways.
They didn’t built any of the urgently needed ferries (the fast ones were lemons!) because B.C. had no viable ship building industry. Establishing one would have taken years of time, money and effort. The Germans are buying Canadian made Bombardier aircraft and rail cars. Why is it wrong to buy ferries from them?
If the aluminum *fast cats* would have been any good (!!!) they would have become the foundation for a B.C. shipbuilding industry able to compete for contracts on a global scale! They were duds and ran up 600 million in wasted money. Admit it already!
However, to the indoctrinated none of these facts mean a thing, sadly enough.
Palopu: “There have been a staggering number of mills that have shut down in BC since the Liberals came to power. The economy is always claimed as the reason, and rarely do we talk about appurtenance which allowed mills to close. Why is that??” Most probably because it doesn’t factor in as much as the total collapse of the US housing market & the worst economic crisis since the Depression.
I worked in the lumber industry in the 90’s when Glen Clark promised 10’s of thousands of jobs. The exact opposite happened. I remember the world going through the largest economic expansion in history…except for BC. I remember that the NDP & their assinine policies driving business out of BC. I remember the rallies held over the NDP’s policies on the economy & health care. I remember that the man who may become our Premier left his government appointed position in disgrace & was front & centre during Glen Clarks’ reign of terror. I remember that I once was a supporter of the NDP. Never again.
Lol 90s, so funny I am more concerned about the passed 12 years and the recorded is one the Libs dont want to talk about. $11 million for Bollywood, $16 million ads about what a great job they did. After 12 years os so called greatness, why run from it? Four more years what would change, these guys are out to lunch.
“They didn’t built any of the urgently needed ferries (the fast ones were lemons!) because B.C. had no viable ship building industry.”
That is untrue. BC did have a viable shipbuilding industry then, and it is still going strong now. It is on Vancouver Island. The Liberals refused to allow this BC industry to bid on building their ferries for partisan political reasons, not because the industry was not viable.
Debt …. how bad is the debt situation in B.C?
My information tells methat Government debt doubled in the 1990s and has doubled again since 2001. Total debt now is around $40 billion.
Fact is, the absolute is not all that important. it is the size of the debt relative to income.
For governments, the standard practice is to measure the debt relative to the gross domestic product (GDP).
In 2001, the debt was about 18 per cent of GDP, and today it is about 18 per cent.
So, is 18% too high?
Some debts of other governments:
1. Canada about 34%
2. U.S.A. about 62%
3. U.K. about 90%
4. Japan has the highest ratio > 200%
5. Libya has the lowest ratio
It is true. If BC had a “viable shipbuilding industry then” (as you insist) why did it produce three lemons which were neither on time nor on budget?
What is “viable” about that? I was told by an honest realistic NDP person that they were a flop but to look at the bright side, meaning that the project alleviated unemployment as it employed several hundred welders etc for a long time.
A competent competitive shipbuilder doesn’t produce such an Edsel like monstrosity. However, as long as the government digs deep to come up with the dough, some might keep insisting that it was great and perhaps plan another caper like that just to rub it in and purely for political reasons.
Great research, Gus. Besides having much needed tangible assets as part of a debt are another method of judging whether debt is good or not. Having added to the debt with nothing to show for at the end of the year is a real bummer.
Prince Rupert population data as an indicator of a community’s well being
Census agglomeration population
1991 17,359
1996 17,414 +0.3%
2001 15,302 â12.1%
2006 13,392 â12.5%
2011 13,052 â2.5%
1991 to 1996 … stagnated (NDP)
1996 to 2001 … plummeted (NDP)
2001 to 2006 … continued to plummet (BCLibs)
2006 to 2011 … major leakage slowed considerably especially seeing that this actually happened during the global economic downturn (BCLibs)
Rupert and Kitimat have been a depressed area for some time. Looks like it is turning around now. Given its location and climate I do not think it will be an economic powerhouse.
Terrace is another story all together.
BTW, part of my post on debt ratio cuyt off the fact that Libya’s debt is less that 2% of its GDP.
Want low debt? We can try to swtich our economy to be the same as Libya’s.
GDP per capita = $13,300 (Canada = $41,500)
unemployment 30% (Canada = 7.3% in same year as Libya)
Tripoli largely has not used its significant financial resources (oil) to develop national infrastructure or the economy, leaving many citizens poor
:-)
A horse race? Maybe it is, but they’re a couple of nags ready for the glue factory.
I can’t say which will give me the least painful stomach ache for the next four years.
Pepto needed at the voting booth.
In Kitimat the pulpmill shut down to join many others in North America. Same goes for the Rupert mill which was the subject of many curtailments and ups and downs for a decade until it finally gave up the ghost in about 2001. The NDP pumped some money into it with good intentions, but it didn’t work out in the long run. I don’t criticize it for that effort. Even the Chinese got involved. In fact last year there was some effort by an investors’ group to buy the site and do something with it.
Kitimat’s Rio Tinto employment numbers are slated to decrease by about 500 when the new smelter opens up. Hopefully other industry will move in (CNG) to make up for that.
Population numbers don’t tell the whole story. Often industry loses markets and revamps itself needing way less employees or it goes out of existence.
You cannot put a positive spin on this government with its shameful record. Have we forgotten the HST?
Let’s also not forget the ongoing corruption under BC Liberal party over the past 10 years. The corruption has got to the point that the BC liberal party ministers could not tolerate and resigned last year one after the other. Do we suffer from amnesia?
BC is now up to the wazoo in debt and Corruption.
So, if BC’s shipbuilding industry is not viable, then why on earth did the Liberal government try to take the credit when the Federal government announced a shipbuilding contract would be given to them? Why would you want the credit for building ships in a non-viable yard?
The answer is that you would not. It’s pretty plain that the Liberal government knows the industry is viable and very much alive.
The fastcats where supposed to be the start of a viable aluminum shipbuilding industry which the fiberals destroyed. They did not like the idea of highly skilled well paid union workers. Aluminum built ships similar to the fastcats are quite popular around the world. The German built ferries where built by a very heavily government subsidized industry. The ferries could have been built here and even if the industry was subsidized here, what is the difference except the money would have stayed in B C for the most part.
Liberal record;
70 Mill and value added plants closed.
Over 35,000 diect job lost
1 MILLION spent on promoting a so-called “Jobs Plan”
Lies about HST
Lies about BCR
Increase MSP premiums
We need a strong voice in the North.
More of the same is not acceptable, It is time for a change!
The total amount of debt by BC government is more around $60 Billion now if you believe the BC gov numbers in 2012 budget. According to page 42 of this budget document the total BC debt are:
2011/12, $50.9 Billion
2012/13, $57.6 Billion (estimate)
2013/14, $62.7 Billion (estimate)
with debt to GDP increasing from 24.1% in 2011/12 to 26.2% in 2012/13 and additional increase to 27.4% in 2013/14.
She has accumulated $12 Billion in debt in just 2 years. God save BC …
With Europe seemingly entering a depression and China slowing it could be interesting for whoever gets in.
The fast ferries were a flawed design. No spin will be able to put lipstick on those pigs. Nobody wanted them after they were parked by the NDP. I saw them tied up in Vancouver harbour. The mooring fees and protection system to keep the aluminum from developing gaping holes ate up a million dollars per year.
The Liberal government went shopping for ferries. There are several countries in Europe which have a long established record of building quality ships, large and small, military and non-military. Italy, Poland, Germany, Sweden, Norway and of course there is Korea and even China. The workers in the German company (a family business) are making better wages than in Canada, all are unionized and have excellent benefits. There goes your argument about the Liberals resenting union workers which make good wages!
The industry here was heavily subsidized too (there goes your other argument). We, the taxpayers kept it going with our taxes when in went way 150% over budget.
Now Harper needed to spread the awarding of his new navy shipbuilding contracts around the provinces. That’s why B.C. got a small slice of the pie. Very little to do with viable. Simple politics.
Seamutt: the Liberals did not retire the fast cats but the NDP themselves did. They never even ran the 3rd cat – just tied it up to the dock and Ujjal tried to sell all 3 for 120 million prior to the 2001 election.
Farnorth has it right.
The paper mill at Kitimat shut down in January 2010 and was a huge blow to Kitimat. In addition the newsprint mill in MacKenzie shut down under the Liberal watch. Then of course we had the closure of Clear Lake Sawmills, the Pas Lumber planer in Prince George and the sawmill in Bear Lake. We shouldn’t of course over look the closure of Rustads. This is just a few of the many closures during the Liberal reign, there were many many more.
Anyone who thinks that the Liberals did anything for the average Joe/Jane is living in a dream world. Fact is they spent all their time looking after the interests of their business buddies. The HST was a prime example.
Most of those on this site that support the Liberals in the next election, were the same that supported the HST . They are incapable of thinking any different, regardless of the huge amount of information available to show how off base they are.
This election will be much like the HST referendum. People will show with their vote whether or not they buy into the phoney **New Liberal mantra**
Palopu & Farnorth, so by your combined logic is the BC Liberal government also responsible for the multiple mill closures across Canada? Winton Global shut down as a result of crashing lumber market that is just now recovering…6 years later. The owners of that mill held a meeting in Sept. 2007 & stated in no uncertain terms that market conditions were bad, the US housing market was in the process of melting down & if these conditions continued they would not operate those mills at a loss indefinitely. Employees were warned to get their finances in order. The ice jam in Dec. 2007 was the final nail in the coffin.
Most of the other mills you mention were shuttered due to a combination of a world wide economic crisis & the demand for their product drying up. Liberal policy had very little if nothing to do with these closures.
I’m not a fan of this government, but to lay this at their feet is just plain wrong & untrue.
“There goes your argument about the Liberals resenting union workers which make good wages!” Huh I was talking BC, the fiberals could not have cared less who built them offshore. Instead of supporting any kind of a shipbuilding here they went offshore to a heavily subsidized industry. Subsidized money that could have been spent here, get it.
I never said our industry was never subsidized, like I said spend the money here instead of an subsidized industry offshore, get it.
Where did I say the fiberals parked the fast cats? The fiberals sure did not support the industry.
As for the aluminum ship building industry check out Incat in Hobart. Got a tour of their operation when I was over there, very impressive. On the left side sidebar check out what they have built.
The route for the fastcats as designed was too short, but the industry if allowed to continue could have been viable.
“Harper needed to spread the awarding of his new navy shipbuilding contracts around the provinces. That’s why B.C. got a small slice of the pie. Very little to do with viable. “
Sounds good, but just one tiny flaw in the logic. Ships can only be built in a shipyard that is functional. You know, one that is viable! What the Federal Governments decision says to me is that they consider the BC shipyard viable, i.e. capable of building the ships. So do the Provincial Liberals, otherwise why did they try to ride Harper’s back and get some credit?
detoe43, here’s my experiance.
I worked at a mill that announced closure back in the 90’s, but remember that was before the Liberals got rid of things like appurtenancy clause or got rid of the jobs commissioner. The jobs commissioner under the NDP was sucessful in keeping the mill running. Unfortuately the operation closed down in 2009 and no jobs commissioner and the ability for the company to ship logs out of the community. Oh, did i mention log exports have double in the last 10 years.
The mills shutting down anywhere had nothing to do with the liberal government. We all know that the unions out west made it totally impossible to operate. some of you in here need to go start a businesse, and see how long you last.
I love how Palopu speaks as if the NDP is going to be an improvement over what we have now. A fallacy.
He’s still holding a grudge about the HST, even though it was voted out months ago.
At least he’s coming around to the idea that the HST referendum was all about voter spite and not about whether the HST was good policy — and it was.
The HST was S….y policy, and was good for business and corporations only. I would never support such a rotten, tax, that robs from the average Jane/Joe to fill the pockets of the Corporations.
Mills in the Prince George area have gone through many ups and downs over the years. The Pas Lumber planer located in Prince George back in the early fifties, and was always a top of the line producer. They had a firm customer base in the USA and weathered many downturns. Why did this one knock them off??
Lets keep in mind that they also closed the sawmill in Bear Lake. So the question is. Where are the logs going that used to be milled at the Bear Lake Sawmill??? Who owns the Pas Lumber??? Are these logs being milled in Canfors mill in Bear Lake??? Are they being trucked to other mills???
Unless you have the answers to all the questions you will never be able to determine why this mill, or other mills closed. One thing is certain you will not get accurate information from the owners.
Once the Liberals allowed logs to be milled anywhere in BC rather than in the area where they were harvested, mills started to close down. The downturn in the economy was a factor, however if you listen to the BS from the Liberals, China made up for the US decline (ha ha ha).
Appurtenancy was a major factor in these closures. Those mills who consolidated and continued to run are making millions of dollars in profits as we speak.
The NDP bailed out Skeena Cellulose with about $3 hunnert million. How’d that work out? Some of that dough was mine. At least the dippers should have renamed it “The Peoples Cellulose Mill of Skeena”.
The Fast Ferries were an attempt by Glen Clark and the NDP to develop some manufacturing in this province. I believe with a bit more work they could have been made useful but they were auctioned off on the day that Campbell’s sentence was announced. The press was given a distraction from Campbell’s conviction.
Using these ferries would have saved billions of dollars spent in a foreign land. Instead we now have this mess that the BC Liberals created.
By the way, the federal gov’t plans to use the site where the fast ferries were built to produce ships for the navy and to develop a manufacturing shipyard. This is what the NDP had in mind when they had the ferries built in BC but the BC Liberals destroyed that plan. And the BC Liberals are now saying this plan is wonderful. Too bad they didn’t have that insight before they sold off the so called “Fast Ferries” and BC Ferries would not be in the financial mess that it is now in.
The Liberals should have kept one of the Fast Ferries so that they could use it, to **get out of dodge** after the election. There should be enough room on one of these Ferries for them and all their buddies.
Astro:” Using these ferries would have saved billions of dollars spent in a foreign land.”
Thank you for not exaggerating: Actually it was trillions!
The ferries had the following problems during their brief tenure:
High fuel consumption. The four 8,375 brake horsepower (6.2 MW) engines driving their waterjets required an inordinate amount of diesel fuel. Fully loaded and traveling at top speed of 34 knots/ 63 km an hour required the engines to be used at 90% power.
Due to an unusually wet and windy winter, there was a higher than normal amount of flotsam in the waters along the route, some of which was sucked into impellers for the ferries’ engines, causing breakdowns and sailing cancellations.
When operated at full speed, the Pacificat fleet created a wake which was reported to have damaged waterfront wharves and property in coastal areas near the two terminals. This required that the ferries reduce speed in certain areas and alter course in others, reducing their speed advantage.
The air on vehicle decks became uncomfortably warm, either from the heat of the vessel engines or lack of air circulation. This made some people wary of bringing pets aboard the FastCats; however, the ferries had kennels with improved air circulation at the bow and stern of the vehicle decks.
There was little outside deck space for passengers. The existing ferries had large decks, and it was common for passengers to spend the entire sailing circling the decks of the ship or sunbathing on the lifejacket containers.
The ships had interiors that were perceived by passengers as being cramped compared to the existing ferries.
Loading took longer than the older ferries due to balancing issues. This further negated the ships’ speed advantage.
After a change in leadership, the new Premier of BC, Ujjal Dosanjh, placed the ferries up for sale.
Highlights of the BC Budget 2013/14. – page 7
b.c.âs debt-to-gdp ratio supports aaa rating
Taxpayer supported debt to GDP ratio
BC = 17%
Ontario = 36.9%
Quebec = 48.6%
Canada = 69.1%
USA = 92.2%
http://www.bcbudget.gov.bc.ca/2013/highlights/2013_Highlights.pdf
So what is your source univ?
Astro:”By the way, the federal gov’t plans to use the site where the fast ferries were built to produce ships for the navy and to develop a manufacturing shipyard.”
Thank you for the information! According to ammonra there is already a viable shipbuilding manufacturing industry established on Vancouver Island! Apparently the feds don’t know about it! Somebody should let them know as soon as possible!
Astro, you clearly struggle with what really happened with the ferry fiasco. As per ushual, the NDP pet project was missmanaged, poorly thought out and way over budget. But heh, some good union jobs at any cost makes it all worth while in the NDP world.
BC shipyards built the ferry fleet from 1960 to the fast ferries. I believe thy were sold off far cheaper than they should have been. Anything that nasty convicted DUI premier could do to make the opposition seem bad.
The spirit class ferries are the workhorses of the fleet; they were built in BC creating jobs for people who pay taxes in this province. the liberals didn’t give BC shipyards a chance to bid on the 2 new ferries, because according to them our shipyards weren’t capable of building them.
I wouldn’t trust anything the lying Liberals would say.
For those who said glen Clark’s NDP was lousy, I agree, and thy were fired by the voters. However, how do you deliver the message to this lousy gov’t that the lies deceit and back room deals aren’t good enough? You fire them.
HST lies; BC Rail sale; $6,000,000 legal fees – hush money.
BC shipyards built the ferry fleet from 1960 to the fast ferries. I believe thy were sold off far cheaper than they should have been. Anything that nasty convicted DUI premier could do to make the opposition seem bad.
The spirit class ferries are the workhorses of the fleet; they were built in BC creating jobs for people who pay taxes in this province. the liberals didn’t give BC shipyards a chance to bid on the 2 new ferries, because according to them our shipyards weren’t capable of building them.
I wouldn’t trust anything the lying Liberals would say.
“The German built ferries where built by a very heavily government subsidized industry.”
And BC residents flock across the USA Border at Blain every day and night of the year to drive down I5 at 70+ miles/hr to Bellingham’s and other box stores to buy USA subsidized milk, butter, cheese, chicken, etc. which are at least 50% cheaper than in BC. Buying gas in the USA pays for the trip. Make sure to bring along your kids so you can buy more.
Everyone subsidizes their favourite industry to keep it alive. What do we subsidize?
Oil and gas at around $1.5 to $3 billion+/year?
Canada’s Dairy industry at $2.5+ billion/year?
Timber? According to the USA we are.
Bombardier?
Sorels?
Figures might be a little dated, but they are never accurate anyway. We likely have no one who really knows how much we are subsidizing “stuff”.
Looking at the roads in the Danson Industrial site we can say for sure that Shirely Bond and the BC liberals do not support the essential free enterprise infrastructure of good roads to support the economy. The BC liberals are all hat and no cattle when they talk about the economy.
I think in Bond’s riding it couldn’t hurt any more to try the ndp for a term. In PG North the conservative candidate Terry Rysz will at best be a spoiler unless he comes out against the Gateway Pipeline, in which case he might have a chance.
IMHO
There are shipyards in both Vancouver and Victoria. If I specified the wrong shipyard for building ships, I apologise. Other than that all my comments stand.
incidentally, a simple correction would suffice. Snide remarks are uncalled for, but typical.
Enterprise is not free. It costs all of us a lot of money to be enterprising whether it is being enterprising with our personal business, our owned businesses, or the businesses our government decides to paticipate in by subsidizing them.
Take the aluminum fast cat ferries, for instance …… experts told our representatives of the day, “don’t do it” ….. but hey, government knows best ….. ;-)
Palopu, where have you been residing for the last 6 years? What part of the worst economic crisis the world has seen since the Great Depression don’t you understand? What part of the complete collapse of the US housing market don’t you get? This was no simple down turn. These were the main reasons Winton Global (had not been The Pas for 4 years prior to shutting down) closed it’s doors. On top of some very unwise management decisions & the afore mentioned ice jam sealed it’s fate.
Their Thermal Oilplant located on the Nechako would not have been allowed to operate, a replacement of at least $13 million. Their planer & sawmill required millions in upgrades to make it a viable operation able to compete in the realities of the emerging lumber markets. Tenure has had very little to do with Sinclar not reopening that mill. We are 6 years since the events of the recession started to be felt & are just seeing lumber prices rise to 2006/2007 levels.
Ammonra, no need for an apology! I do not nitpick and split hairs. This is supposed to be a site for making comments based on actual information available. You will never persuade me that the venture was not ill-conceived and poorly executed.
PrinceGeorge, comments I made about building ships were not about the validity of the project and I made no attempt to convince you that it was or was not valid. I was simply pointing out that the statement you made that the Liberal ferries were built in Germany because “B.C. had no viable ship building industry” was untrue.
Incidentally, is it true that major components of those ferries are Russian in origin, and not German? I’ve heard that, but don’t know if it’s true. If it is, does that mean we have been misled again, presumably to cynically ride the reputation of German engineering?
Gus, I have mentioned my reference in my post, reread it. The tax supported debt that you mention is only a portion of total BC debt. Don’t you know? Also according to Huffington Post Canada, the BC “Total provincial debt is forecast to be $62.7 billion in 2013-2014.”
See http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/02/19/bc-budget-2013-highlights_n_2719799.html
I found the recent campaign slogan of Christy Clark about reducing debt in the future absolutely ridiculous considering that she has added $12 Billion (i.e. 24%) to the total BC debt in just 2 years. A government of Lies …
With the exception of BC Liberals, any government in BC will be a massive improvement to the current BC Liberal government of lies, scandals, mismanagement and corruption …
Have no doubt about that.
Ammonra:”Incidentally, is it true that major components of those ferries are Russian in origin, and not German? I’ve heard that, but don’t know if it’s true. If it is, does that mean we have been misled again, presumably to cynically ride the reputation of German engineering.”
I have not heard that! However, you must know that many countries do the engineering part of a product in their own country and then produce parts for it at home plus in other countries around the globe for final assembly. If you buy a Toyota RV4 or a Toyota Sienna van for instance you will find that the RAV4 is assembled in Canada, using a mix of Japanese, Canadian and US made parts. The Sienna is assembled in the States, using domestic labour and a lot of domestic parts.
All other manufacturers do the same.
If the German designed and assembled in Germany ferries used both German parts plus parts from European Union countries and perhaps even Russia (nothing wrong with that – after all the Cold War is history – where is the problem?
It demonstrates how globally connected we all are (including Canada) and we simply will not survive if we take a hostile attitude against other competing countries. The way to win is to do better.
Too bad Clark didn’t have the wisdom to contract at least the Fats Cat design out to a country which already had experience in designing aluminum hulled speedy vessels of the kind he had in mind, instead of trying to re-invent the wheel. Fast Cats of a well proven design, built in Canada with many domestic components would have led to a successful outcome.
Re: Comment by proudgammi: “Don’t discount those of us in Nechako Lakes. We WILL be an NDP riding…”
Keep throwing that pixie dust proudgammi, and keep repeating to yourself…”We WILL be an NDP riding…”
You may get your wish, but only on a split vote. The majority of Nechako Lakes consituents don’t subscribe to socialist voodoo economics.
One example: Adrian Dix wants to spend (deficit financed) money on skills training. But if there are no jobs here in BC, people will just take their newly learned skills and move to Alberta. Duh…
Why German ferries? Was a Mr Mulroney’s lobbyist Karlheinz Schreiber or one of his friends with suitcase of banknotes involved?
BTW Christy Clark’s ex-husband was involved with the Brian Malroney’s scandal too.
univ:”Why German ferries? Was a Mr Mulroney’s lobbyist Karlheinz Schreiber or one of his friends with suitcase of banknotes involved?”
What would you say if I told you that the Germans just placed a billion dollar order for Canadian made Dash airplanes with Bombardier of Montreal?
You don’t want Canadians to work (have jobs) because the Germans keep many of them employed with orders for high tech planes?
You are really stretching it more than a lot when you attempt to connect Schreiber and Mulroney to the purchase of the ferries. I wouldn’t mention the name Mulroney at all as he is in my opinion not worth mentioning and a stain on you know what.
Both Schreiber and him. It took two to tango.
Does anyone have any idea why people call it skills training?
To me it is redundant. I hope we do not train for no skills.
Don’t they really mean to say trades training, for instance? Is trades a dirty word and we are hiding it with the use of the word skills?
===================================
you say: So what kind of skills training are you going for young lady?
She replies: Welding.
you rspond: Ah, so you are going for training in one of the trades. Cool.
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