Harper will force it through..

No, FINANCE will force it through. Perhaps in a different form than currently proposed. Harper is just the chosen instrument of FINANCE, no different from what Trudeau or Mulcair would be if they were in his place. Politicians, of all stripes, “yield to pressure”. And FINANCE is currently capable of always applying more pressure to all our politicians than the people who elected them. So long as that is the case, ‘money’ will be our master, and not our servant. So Harper could be replaced, and no doubt one day he will be, but don’t expect anything substantive will change so long as his would-be replacements subscribe to the exact same policy imposed financially.

Harper is their puppet.. but he will still force it through..

bilderberger

Neither Harper or FINANCE will force this ill-fated, highly flawed pipe dream through…i have read previous articles and some of the short-minded comments about this pipe dream and some folks really need to do some reading when it comes to First Nation’s rights and title…the traditional territories that this project is proposed to go through is on unceded lands, meaning, it belongs to FNs, period. Why do you think there is a consultation process in this province? Now, when folks wanna say, well, it is my tax dollars that fund, yadda, yadda…nope, wrong again, it is corporate tax dollars that fund the so-called programs within the highly archaic “Indian Act”…which, BTW, FNs did not have a part in producing…FNs did not want that highly wasteful Act, the gov’ts of the past and present do, the federal ministry that is AANDC is the most wasteful, bureaucratic arm of gov’t in history…tax paying citizen’s income tax OR property tax DOES NOT FUND FNs in this country, corporate tax dollars do, through the development of FN’s natural resources, such as forestry, mining and oil & gas…FNs are entrepreneurial as any one, google it…there are many successful partnerships, JV projects in this country…this particular project though is going to be taken to court by at least one opposing FN, based on the lack of consultation, which will infringe the opposing FN’s rights and title…Enbridge could possibly be looking at a different scenario, if they invited FNs to the table, right from the concept stage of this project, but nope, they took the stance of “we know what is best for you, so, take this deal or not” approach…what an insult, ignorance at the highest level, by Enbridge and the provincial and federal gov’ts…to try to utilize the JRP process as consultation is absurd, the project will be in court, when the time is right and it won’t see the light of day…this bitumen should be processed in Alberta or wherever in this country that upgrading facilities exist anyway…Now, let’s see if the usual suspects, with their ignorant comments commences…

Silver, I totally agree that the “Indian Act” is an archaic wasteful bureaucracy that needs to be gutted. But why are any proposed changes fought by FN? Why do FN’s fight accountability and the transparency that is required of every other elected body? Seems some want their cake with no strings(attapwask). I don’t think there is any government at present that doesn’t want to see FN’s become successful and move forward.

Your statement that individual income tax does not fund FN’s is strange. Many reserves are totally dependent on tax dollars, the lions share which are derived from individual tax payers.

I’ll also give you that many comments are ignorant, but much of this is caused out of frustration. Watching the “idle no more” lawlessness with no repercussions and the Chief Spense fiasco brings out the worst in even the most tolerant.

Looks like Dow nailed it.

.tax paying citizen’s income tax OR property tax DOES NOT FUND FNs in this country, corporate tax dollars do, through the development of FN’s natural resources, such as forestry, mining and oil & gas. =============================================
At the end of the day, ALL tax dollars go into general revenues and are then distributed according to govt commitments and policy. For example, payments to FN are not reduced when corporate tax revenues are down.

And just where do you think corporate tax revenues come from Silverback … lots of it off of the backs of taxpaying workers and from the purchases of taxpaying consumers, etc. … invariably the tax money trail leads back to the general population of the nation …

The other mitigating factor has been the trend of the the last 30 years for the federal and provincial govts to download the expenses for services to the municipal level. Municipal taxation has shifted to the individual property owners as corporations have become more effective at shifting their “profit” accounts. So expenses that used to be covered by the feds and corporations has been picked up by the general “taxpayer”.

So, I suggest the hobby horse argument that the general taxpayer is not directly impacted by expenditures to FNs is wobbly and shallow at best and an outright misdirect at worst.

Perhaps it is time for FNs to consult with the taxpaying community about their plans for our collective future.

dow7500,

First off, I don’t have all the answers, but, what I can say is, as a FNs individual, some FNs are advanced than others, in regards to changes wanted within the Indian Act, some want to further advance their independence and others don’t, the ones that don’t, there are many variables at play, maybe a lack of capacity within the community, the remoteness of the community to recruit professionals and retain them(for example, a city or town maybe quite a distance away from services, such as, groceries, schools, doctors, extra-curricular activities(sports) etc…communities may have some or all of these, in limited capacities, but for most professionals needed, it simply isn’t enough, so, there tends to be a high turnover of professionals). Now, folks may say, “well, all the more they should incorporate with society, move to cities, towns or closer”, etc…well, it aint that easy folks, there are families that prefer to live out on the land, a combination of simply, just because and practice their way of life, of living off the land(surprise surprise non-FNs prefer that too)…then folks say, well, then they should get nothing for services then” or something to that effect…well, in BC, most of the lands(natural resources) that are developed by corporations, are unceded lands, which is FN lands…those corporations pay taxes, which is in the Indian Act wording, “are held in trust by the federal gov’t, on behalf of FNs”…

The frustration is felt by everybody, FNs or not…INM is about drawing awareness to the lack of accountability, transparency to our government’s policies, prov or fed, for all canadians to stand up together, enough is enough…the Chief Spense fiasco is just that, a fiasco, the federal ministry, AANDC, had third party management of that community for at least 10 years, by an accounting firm the feds put their…way more questions than answers to that set-up, the federal gov’t wasted more money than the community ever did…google the “recommendations” by Deloitte…

I definitely think there needs to be more addressed to the issues of how FNs and non-FNs need to work together, economically and socially, we all want to see this country flourish…the way the gov’ts are going about it now, is highly flawed…fueled by fear, ignorance, arrogance and racism…

silver: ‘First off, I don’t have all the answers, but, what I can say is, as a FNs individual, some FNs are advanced than others, in regards to changes wanted within the Indian Act, some want to further advance their independence and others don’t, the ones that don’t, there are many variables at play, maybe a lack of capacity within the community, the remoteness of the community to recruit professionals and retain them(for example, a city or town maybe quite a distance away from services, such as, groceries, schools, doctors, extra-curricular activities(sports) etc…communities may have some or all of these, in limited capacities, but for most professionals needed, it simply isn’t enough, so, there tends to be a high turnover of professionals). Now, folks may say, “well, all the more they should incorporate with society, move to cities, towns or closer”, etc…well, it aint that easy folks, there are families that prefer to live out on the land, a combination of simply, just because and practice their way of life, of living off the land(surprise surprise non-FNs prefer that too)…then folks say, well, then they should get nothing for services then” or something to that effect…”

Perfect example of why we’ll never get anywhere with FN. Far too many excuses and not enough solutions. So in the meantime, we’re stuck with the status quo…which is just fine with the many who know how to play the system.

there’s good ole johnnybelt and seamutt, to some extent…

i was wonderin when you 2( and others) might “spew your short-minded wit”…sure glad that most folks are not like you 2…only choosing to read and acknowledge what you want, your ignorance is shining through again, what a sorry excuse for people you 2 are…

Sorry if I kept it a little too real for you silverback.

And all you have in response is insults. So sad.

dow7500 states; “But why are any proposed changes fought by FN? Why do FN’s fight accountability and the transparency that is required of every other elected body?”

To which seamutt ignorantly agrees! The Idle No More movement is not about fighting Bill C-27 the First Nations Financial Transparency Act. The Idle No More movement is about protesting changes made to the Navigable Waters Act, which removed the word “protection” from the Act and de-regulated thousands of lakes and rivers in Canada from the Federal Government environmental protection and review process.

Maybe the two sack of hammers (seamutt and JB) can show the rest of us all the public First Nation demonstrations protesting against the Bill C-27 First Nation Transparency Act??!!

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/27/first-nations-financial-transparency-act-becomes-law-reserve-audits-chiefs-salaries-to-be-publicized/

We can’t even rely on our senators to adhere to the honour system in governing their expenditures, so why should First Nations Chief and Councils be any different?

alright JB,

Now that the insults are done,lol…what solutions, if any, do you have…?

I won’t hold my breath on that one…look forward to reading some actual solutions, dialogue, you might have…after all, we all live here, don’t we…?

Adolescent name calling. Must have hit the raw truth. Just where does all the money go? Chief Spence show the money.

As for the navigable water act just the duplicity of bureaucracy has been reduced. Bureaucracy, is that not what everyone bitches about?.

I guess it’s time to give Statler and Waldorf a history lesson! “As for the Navigable Waters Act just the duplicity of bureaucracy has been reduced.” Are you serious???

Do you not know that transferring navigable waters environmental assessment and protection responsibilities from the Federal government to provincial governments violates signed treaties hundreds of years old?

Treaties are signed agreements between those First Nations and the Federal Government on behalf of the queen. Many of these treaties were signed at a time when no provincial governments existed! So how can this Federal government abdicate treaty responsibilities to protect navigable (by canoe) waterways, for use by First Nations, to a level of government that did not exist at the time of signed treaty agreements?

Nice try Waldorf and Statler!

Canoe?

Yup, thousands of lakes and rivers across Canada now no longer under the protection of the Navigable Waters Protection Act… which has been changed to Navigable Waters Act… why should they need “protection” right?!

Guess who wanted those changes? Yup, BIG OIL and their pipeline industry that’s who!!!

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/documents-reveal-pipeline-industry-drove-changes-to-navigable-waters-act-1.1164476

Wake up sheeple!!!

Did you even read your link, “CEPA’s Kenny does not agree. Rather, she said she wishes critics would recognize that the federal government has now set a higher environmental standard for pipelines by consolidating their processes”.

If big oil is so big and powerful how come the pipeline is not already built?

“If big oil is so big and powerful how come the pipeline is not already built?”

Are you kidding? Of course BIG OIL will have to “jump through the hoops” to give that appearance they are complying with some watered down Harper Conservative environmental impact process.

However, Enbridge’s Mr. John Carruthers is correct, their pipeline will be approved because the whole Joint Review Panel process is a song and dance joke! This is why CSTC chose not to participate in the JRP, and will take Enbridge and the Federal Government to court once Harper and his cronies approve the pipeline project!

Oh my.

Can’t provinces look after water? They look after health care, education, many social services. The navigable water hysteria is another reason for FN’s to clog the system with lawyers and blockades and perpetuate the “Indian” industry. The country has become more than tired of this BS.

I strongly suspect People#1 is and has been the beneficiary of the endless, tiring and hypocritical Fn posturing.

“Can’t provinces look after water?” … apparently not!

http://peoplesworld.org/major-oil-water-spill-darkens-alberta-canada/

This spill was recently made public, not by the Alberta government, not by the the Apache oil company who owns the pipeline… it was made public by a local resident who contacted a member of the media.

Get your latest oil spill while it is still fresh folks, this one hit the news only five (5) days ago! Apparently it is the largest in North America and went undetected for months!

Welcome to BC, Alberta oil industry : D

So, anyone with tangible, realistic solutions, ideas, actual dialogue to how FNs and non-FNs can work together to resolve issues around these projects and future ones? Anybody? Or do we just continue to read troll-like comments by each others that have no way of contributing to a good dialogue conversation of how we can address natural resource issues…?

Go have a chat with the Penticton, Westbank Inuvik James Bay bands. They seem to be doing alright for themselves.

Silver: “Or do we just continue to read troll-like comments by each others that have no way of contributing to a good dialogue conversation of how we can address natural resource issues…? “

These kinds of comments are certainly not helping either, combined with your insults earlier with anyone who dared question what you had to say. It is not a one way street.

As seamutt said, there are bands who have good leadership who are doing well for themselves. Unfortunately, there are too many that don’t have good leadership, many who are corrupt who live the high life and have no motivation to make things better for the band.

Here’s some thoughts, Silver.

Fee simple ownership on band land. The communal hunter gather model of the last century is not working.

Band governance the same as municipal governance. Many bands are run as family fiefdoms. To move forward corruption and nepotism must stop. This includes every layer of government FN or not.

Set a fixed rate of resource revenue sharing for FN’s not unlike a provincial royalty. The added certainty for all parties will benefit all(except lawyers).

Police must enforce the same law for all Canadians. Ignoring court orders for certain parties makes a mockery of society.

Stop the blockades already. I realize there are frustrations on all sides. But blocking a rail line or bridge doesn’t and won’t help any cause.

We all must stop living in the past. My grandfather farmed with horses, does that mean I must to preserve some notion of culture? Fn’s have fished the Fraser for centuries, does that mean they should continue at the expense of the resource?

We are all Canadian. We should have one law for all.

comments?

Get with the program, a First Nation’s economic success is not attributed to a Chief or Council. In fact businesses and corporations will avoid First Nation political bodies like the plague.

Why would a large corporation or company want to conduct “business” with a First Nation’s Chief and Council, when 3 to 4 years later a new hostile Chief and Council could be elected?

No… the smart approach is the establishment of First Nation Economic Development Corporations governed by a profession board of directors that is not politically appointed. Only this approach would provide the long term stability in which outside businesses and companies would want to joint venture and invest their time and money with First Nations!

Having made a constructive comment / observation… I will still say; GET LOST ENBRIDGE!!! : D