“Mayor Green should by now be dreading the day that she suggested in her race for the mayor’s chair that she would look to save up to 10% in every department . That statement, as can be shown, can in no way be compared with what actually took place”

I don’t think she’s dreading anything, after all, that statement may have helped get her elected as mayor.

The people who should be dreading anything are the ones who believed her and put an “X” beside her name on a ballot. They were the ones who were essentially duped into thinking that a claim of “saving 10% in every department” was a realistic, or even reasonable, proposition.

I agree with much of the rest of your article Ben, but voters need to have a brain as well . . .

Sure am happy I sold my two houses in PG 3 years ago. I got out a there when all these increases were beginning when we had mr rogers running the show. Now my tax for my new house here was under 250 dollars for the whole year. No water utility. No garbage pickup. And no extra snow removal charges for a useless snow plow that showed up once a season if we needed it or not. Usually it would come on days when they were scraping ice on the pavement. I hope 250 will keep doing articles like this at least weekly to remind those that voted for green what the rest of the taxpayers have to now pay because of her greed and incopetence. Me I don’t care because I aint paying those costs. Add it up and you will see that to live in PG your cost is at least ten dollars a day, seven days a week. What do you get for that? Nothing I would argue. I will take my own garbage away. I aint paying for them or any of the other over paid useless city staff. They aint worth 28 dollars an hour or what ever we have to pay to keep them at the trough.

Why will it take over $300,000.00 to create the new snow clearing utility? Adding another level of bureaucracy which will make an already inefficient service even less so?

By this way of thinking if I sew another pocket on my jeans and use the money in it for a single purpose I will be further ahead….sorry city hall this will not work unless I convince my boss to increase the amount of money going into the various pockets. If i factor in the cost to create and upkeep this extra pocket I am actually worse off than when I started.

Smoke and mirrors!

Although she’s a favorite around this town to contantly bash, It’s not just Sheri Green. The past few mayors and councils have sold us all on the idea that we can have it all with low taxes.

We’re playing catch up. Expect costs to continue to rise.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. There are way too many people working for the city. We need serious cuts to the number of people (managers and front liners) that are employed by the tax payers. 350 grand is nothing compared to the millions spent yearly on wages and benefits. It is not a sustainable system as is.

No JB, she declared the 10%; she sets the agenda! She is responsible! No vision!

Posted by: JohnnyBelt on July 15 2013 8:27 AM
Although she’s a favorite around this town to contantly bash, It’s not just Sheri Green. The past few mayors and councils have sold us all on the idea that we can have it all with low taxes.

We’re playing catch up. Expect costs to continue to rise.
If Mayor Green was doing a bang up job, would Mayor Green be getting positive media JB? If you think the reader/ PG Citizens get up in the morning to bash our elected officials, you must not know a heck of a lot about what has been going on in our city.
The reputation of this crew on council is pathetic. I don’t even care to type out for you JB what all the screw ups are from this present mayor and council. All I will say is the public only hears about half what is actually going on from our leaders at city hall.

JB Wake up dude!!

If you think we’re getting gouged on our taxes compared to other municipalities, think again. We were talking to some friends in Sechelt the other day and learned that they pay over $5,000 in property taxes, with the homeowner’s grant, in a place that rarely has frost, let alone snow. I guess they’re paying for the sunshine, or the rain, who knows. They also have a nice shiny new RCMP station, a new library, and a new aquatic centre.
Sheri Green campaigned on the widely held myth that because she was a successful business person, she could do a better job at running government. Once in power, she came to realize this simply was not true and the reality is that since the price of everything is going up, her promise of a 10% reduction across the board would be totally impossible; hence the tax and fee hikes. Look for more of the same . . .

I never said the current mayor was doing a bang up job. Quite the opposite actually. I was just making the point that the blame can be spread to previous administrations too, and to us for believing the hype and being oblivious to reality.

I’m totally agreed that we need to trim City staff and look for efficiencies.

“….. she would look to save up to 10% in every department”

Anyone who writes objectives and writes them properly would understand the difference between that and the statement of objectives that the voters think they are seeing:

” ….. she would save up to 10% in every department”

BTW, that is still doable …. 0.1% saving would meet that objective.

So, do not just “look” … do not just “review” …. do not just “consider” … etc. etc.

When you set an objective, set it so that the thing you promised to do is the right thing to measure.

that those who like to obfuscate those who evaluate the objectives

“Once in power, she came to realize this simply was not true and the reality is that since the price of everything is going up, her promise of a 10% reduction across the board would be totally impossible”

SPIN, SPIN, SPIN, lovin’ the spin we’re in …….

She was on Council for 4 years. If she did more than sit there and she actually understood what was going on, she would have known what was possible and what was not possible.

So, basically you are saying that she sat there for 4 years and did not understand a thing about City finance and services and what they cost and how much could be saved and where.

She saw an opportunity to BS the community because she knew how gullible the voters were.

So, she either made false promises that she know she could not keep and was smart enough to know that, or she was not smart at all and honestly thought she could make the savings and knew exactly where to find them because she had studied City Hall operations for 4 years.

Which is it?

“If you think we’re getting gouged on our taxes compared to other municipalities, think again.”

Agree 100% with that and have said so for a long time. I just need to know that we are effective and efficient in what we do.

I really do not care how much that costs on total or how many people work at City Hall. I need to know rates per household, per person, per km of road, whatever measure that is comparable then to other communities.

KPMG report did none of that other than in a couple of snippets here and there. Thus, it was useless as far as I am concerned.

BTW, McLean’s reports on the cost of municipal governments admits right up front that either all or almost all municipalities have been spending considerably more on operations than the cost of living increase over the same time.

We are only somewhat unique in that we have the double whammy of having that increase, and then, when it comes to a per capita measure, a reduced number of people over the past 2 to 3 decades. THAT has had a major influence on a rate measure which uses per capita as a primary rate.

May not be a consolation, but we are not exactly alone.

Then do not forget that we have offloading from senior governments. They are applying the now favourite “user pay” notion. Where the municipalities are the users, they are making the municipalities pay.

Look at the bigger picture. AND, look to see whether the people in the Council Chamber are doing anything effective about that. We need more than annual good times at the various municipal government conventions.

“If you think we’re getting gouged on our taxes compared to other municipalities, think again. We were talking to some friends in Sechelt the other day and learned that they pay over $5,000 in property taxes, with the homeowner’s grant”

I know of people paying over 5k here in PG. All depends on what your house is valued at compared to the rest of the city

The airspace above my house hasn’t been taxed yet!

Oooops, probably gave them another idea now! Sorry.

i think i echo others when I say that I don’t mind paying taxes as long as I’m seeing the services the taxes should be paying for. I don’t even care if the money goes to things I will never use or take advantage of, like hockey arenas. However, if the taxes help improve our community as a whole, go ahead and tax me. What I don’t want my taxes going towards are the hyper inflated salaries of city hall employees, who, I’m sorry to say, probably don’t deserve the money they’re earning. And this is coming from a government employee…

Port Alberni is a comparable town to PG in that it is a forestry pulp mill based economy and thus similar incomes for its residents.

In Port Alberni they had no long term debt only a couple of years ago. Currently about a million in long term debt. They have huge reserve funds to cover costs as they arise and are planned for. In Port Alberni one can buy a similar house to PG for about a third less then here, and save a 40% a year on property taxes… huge money over a decade.

In Campbell River despite the shut down of their pulp mill and the loss of millions in property tax revenue as a result, they have a lower tax rate, lower property values, and less then $8 million in long term debt for half the populaton.

Combined Port Alberni and Campbell River have 2/3 the population of PG with less then a tenth of the long term debt. In fact the cost of PG to service its debt for one year would pay out all the long term debt in both of those two cities twice over.

So when interest rates go up to historical normal levels of 7-8% the cost of servicing the debt in Port Alberni goes up about the cost of half a civic employee, where as in PG it goes up about half of our existing total payroll budget. Which city is financially sustainable?

Furthermore if you are a business looking to locate and you have to choose. Do you locate in a city that will be bankrupt if interest rates go up and 11.84% property tax increases will seem like a bargain, or do you locate in a city that doesn’t have all the built in potential for astronomical increases in debt obligations?

If I eat no prepared food and buy hamburger instead of New York steak and keep the vegies away from organic and don’t buy Belgian endive and am happy with iceberg lettuce, then I can save more money for two people than it costs me for tax on my house that would give me the amenities I would love to have.

It is all a matter of priorities.
==========================================

“Do you locate in a city that will be bankrupt if interest rates go up”

You have all these unproven theories on which you base your arguments. They fall like dominos as a result.

========================================
“…. or do you locate in a city that doesn’t have all the built in potential for astronomical increases in debt obligations?”

I have news for you, those are not cities, they are towns.

To further the above argument. We spend millions every year for IPG to bring business to PG. The focus is on landing the big one and pushing spending on big infrastructure projects to draw business to a bankrupt town (enriching developers in the process). Nearly a hundred million spent on just the airport dream and River road alone… none of which have seen an increased interest in business activity for the city.

In other cities they see the money brought to town by new residents and retirees as a better investment than subsidizing a new business potential.

A retiree with a pension income of $50,000 is akin to a business coming to town and spending $50,000 in operations. 20 retirees come to town and its like having a business investment of a million dollars every year, so say $20 million over 20-years. Make that 2000 retirees and you have a $2-billion dollar investment in your town. When is the last time IPG even announced a legitimate $2 million dollar investment in PG by the business community? The cost of their annual budget.

So we bankrupt the city to attract new business, who we presume would want to invest in a near bankrupt town and pay the increased property taxes to cover it all… and we do it at the expense of the quality of life considerations that would attract new members to the community and boost our prospects through another form of just as legitimate income for the local economy.

In the end we get lots of debt to service, no new business to help pay for the debt that was incurred to attract new business… and the quality of life goes on a downward death spiral ensuring our other options remain limited.

Its the result of the business community owning our local government and voters that are asleep at the wheel IMO. Who wants to move to a city with voters like we have in PG? Those that get a good job or have family here is all… and then they retire somewhere else when it comes time for a fixed income retirement.

If the pulp mills ever shut down in PG it would become a ghost town.

“The airspace above my house hasn’t been taxed yet!”

It is not zoned for anything, unlike the airspace over the parkade.

Look around in downtown Port Alberni or Campbell River or Courtney/Comox and try and tell me they are any less of a city than downtown PG. If you want the really big city they are only a few hours drive away.

News Flash: PG is not a big city and is more akin to a small town. That is the problem we will bankrupt this small town trying to fool people into thinking we are a big city.

Bingo on all your points, Eagleone.

A city council, city staff and an IPG with a collective zero vision and zero understanding of anything other than “cart before horse” and “tax & spend”.

2 problems are clear to me…

1. I pay twice as much taxes for a property that is worth half as much as the one I had when I lived in the Okanagan and

2. for all the taxes I get not much as I get no water, sewer, pavement or consistent road grading or clearing.

** I do however get garbage pickup that I pay for on top of my property taxes that I would also get in the way of a punch pass(at not extra charge) for 1/3 of the taxes if I lived in the regional district

need I say more

2 problems are clear to me…

1. I pay twice as much taxes for a property that is worth half as much as the one I had when I lived in the Okanagan and

2. for all the taxes I get not much as I get no water, sewer, pavement or consistent road grading or clearing.

** I do however get garbage pickup that I pay for on top of my property taxes that I would also get in the way of a punch pass(at not extra charge) for 1/3 of the taxes if I lived in the regional district

need I say more

Eagleone. Your bang on. The so called City of Prince George is nothing more than a small town hiding under the name **City**

When they amalgamated with the Hart Highway, Pineview, South Fort George, VLA, on Pine St., etc. the Citys population was somewhere around 36000 people.

They have basically ignored all the amalgamated areas ever since, and so in effect are still operating as a small town with a population of 36000. They constantly try to make themselves bigger than they are. They get all dressed up and shine their shoes, and pay themselves big salaries, and take trips to China, Vancouver, Quebec, etc; and preen and postulate, like the Mayor of Dog Patch.

At the end of the day, they do nothing, and I mean NOTHING to get this City out of the hole. In fact even as we speak, they are in the process of spending huge dollars, hiring consultants, upgrading the grounds of the Civic Centre to the tune of $500,000.00 with a garden concept, that will be under snow and ice during the Winter Games. Why bother. Do some clean up, add a little paint, and Walla you have saved $500,000.00.

There are many, many, more projects that the City is working on to spend more money, not the least of which will the be Performing Arts Centre, that will cost taxpayers $45 Million ($15 Million Cities Portion). And then of course we will have the $400,000.00 plus maintenance and operating costs to deal with on an annual basis.

We need a freeze on Capital Projects, Wages, and Benefits for all Departments of the City for a minimum of 5 years. After 5 years we can re evaluate the situation. We should lay off as many people as possible through attrition, and streamline every department.

The **Untouchables** Ie; Police, Firemen, and City Managers, and Administration should be the first to freeze, and the first to downsize. This is where the savings are, and this is where the City should be looking, rather than screwing low income workers in the downtown by charging $1200.00 per year for parking.

Have a nice day.

WE CAN’T AFFORD A PERFORMING ARTS CENTRE!!! Bury this idea in a time capsule and don’t open it for 20 years.

“Its the result of the business community owning our local government and voters that are asleep at the wheel IMO. Who wants to move to a city with voters like we have in PG? Those that get a good job or have family here is all… and then they retire somewhere else when it comes time for a fixed income retirement.”

I completely agree with you on this your comment Eagleone!

Palopu looks like you and Eagleone should run for Council, you would both get my vote!

“Its the result of the business community owning our local government and voters that are asleep at the wheel IMO. Who wants to move to a city with voters like we have in PG? Those that get a good job or have family here is all… and then they retire somewhere else when it comes time for a fixed income retirement.”

I completely agree with you on this your comment Eagleone!

Palopu looks like you and Eagleone should both run for Council, you would both get my vote!