Wow… they get two dozen partisans with an agenda and they got a 77% number to work with. lol meanwhile I think we had 750,000 voting in the referendum on the issue.

Would be interesting to see an industry break down of their pollsters.

I think the Chamber of Commerce generally speaks for the globalists and not the good of a free enterprise policy for small business. Its great for the globalists because they get to use the cover of being the voice for local business when setting the policy agenda like this.

I don’t think the Chamber of Commerce should get any special non-profit tax status. I think its a clear conflict of interest.

The question I have to ask is why is the chamber wasting time on this? …. Oh, I know, they have nothing better to do.

I wish they would take on some real issues in this community.

If the C of C asks me a question on anything I hope they give me more than one minute to reply.

The President of the BC Chamber of Commerce was 100% behind the HST. In fact he stated.

**It will be a cold day in Hell before the HST is recinded in BC**

Perhaps his nose is still out of joint, and he therefore continues to push for some kind of value added tax.

Who knows.

I was opposed to the HST, and still am. And I don’t disagree with any of the comments made above. But there were a number of anomalies in the original PST that had developed over the years since it was first brought in back in the early 1950’s and had been extended several times since to cover items not originally taxed then. And those anomalies still exist, uncorrected, in the modern version now imposed on us.

In many cases they do result in ‘double-taxation’ of BC consumers. And remove more money from our pockets than we should ever be paying, just as the HST was doing with its shift of taxation from (exporting, primarily) business to BC consumers.

In others, the rules are simply inane. Firewood, for instance, is PST taxable when sold to the final consumer for the purposes of home heating fuel. Sawdust, however, if sold for heating fuel to anyone, business or consumer, is PST exempt. Yet if sold for animal bedding to someone who has a horse, say, or to lighten up the soil in your garden, it’s PST taxable. There seem to be a large number of instances of that type.

I think any government who was truly concerned about the welfare of all BRITISH COLUMBIANS first would make it a priority to re-visit the whole area of consumer taxation, and make some made-in-BC revisions that are long overdue.

A carton of milk at Mickey D’s is taxable. But not taxable in a grocery store across the street. A bit more reading and I will understand 100% of all the tax codes of Canada and all its provinces and territories.

How about a flat tax. 20%? 25? 30? Pick a number. Whatever your income is thats what you pay. Then thats it. No tax on any goods sold. Whos in?

So if I make a million per year you want 200,000 of it? I don’t think so!

why not? If I make 100,000 I pay alot more than 20,000 right now…

The HST is the only battle I can remember where we the consumers won, the war however is being won by corporations and business. They are the ones running our governments and it is our governments that looks after corporate and business interests first before ours!

The government is looking out for our interests first because that is why we put government in place and why we keep electing people.

In order for them to look out for our interests they have to make sure business thrives because without business we would not have jobs.

And, we know that without jobs we would all die.

We would have no water, no food, no shelter, no twitter and, worst of all, no 250NEWS blog to make strange posts on…. ;-)

Less than 10% of COC local businesses respond to a one day on-live survey and the COC claims support for a value-added tax system…..I place very little value on these results

People1st: “The HST is the only battle I can remember where we the consumers won”

Says who? We’re still paying 12% PST/GST on most everything we buy when it could have been 10% if we had kept the HST. ‘Consumers’ shot themselves in the foot, although most don’t realize it.

Thanks Johnnybelt.

Hey JB and cougs78;

Here is a partial list of consumer items that are now, once again, PST tax exempt!

All permanent exemptions from the previous PST system are re-implemented, including:

-food for human consumption (e.g. basic groceries and prepared food such as restaurant meals)
-books, newspapers and magazines
-children’s clothing
-bicycles
-prescription medications and household medical aids such as cough syrup and pain medications

These exemptions are available to all purchasers. Purchasers don’t need to do anything to get the exemption.

Wow, now the impoverished families in a province that has the highest child poverty rate in Canada can save a little bit of money when buying their food, kid’s clothes, and medicines! For their sake, I am so glad we have gone back to the old system that exempts these important life existing items from additional cost!

You left out the part where the extra costs to the retailer are just downloaded so the prices of the items are higher. You dont actually believe that business’ took a cut in profits to go back to PST do you?

Weak theory interceptor that is not rooted, or based, in fact! Just think about the business greed and the ethical implications to your theory. Might want to read BCRacer’s comment; July 30, 2013, 6:01 am and debate your point with him as he contradicts it. In other words bye, bye.

BC should adopt the same value added tax system used by our neighbors in Alberta. NO PST, NO Carbon Tax!!!

The COC has it’s head in the sand…we need to be ‘competitive’ with neighboring jurisdictions…otherwise business goes there to avoid the taxes.

“Hey JB and cougs78;

Here is a partial list of consumer items that are now, once again, PST tax exempt!”

No use wasting your breath People#1. If they haven’t got it yet after having it explained to them dozens of times in the past, one more time will do nothing.

You’re right, dm. People would rather have their heads in the sand rather than face facts. Too bad.

“We’re still paying 12% PST/GST on most everything we buy when it could have been 10% if we had kept the HST. ‘Consumers’ shot themselves in the foot, although most don’t realize it.”

Oh come on. Any tax, I mean any tax, can and will change at almost a moment’s notice. Budget speech with the changes noted … debate the tax proposal in the legislature, the government passes it and we are p=back up to 13% … inching ever closer to the heights seen only in Europe.

Each time I buy prepared food anywhere, I now enjoy a 7% savings. Next year, the province may decide to tax it again under the PST, who knows.

gus: “Oh come on. Any tax, I mean any tax, can and will change at almost a moment’s notice.”

In Nova Scotia, the HST is going down from 15% to 14% and then 13% in the next two years. Is that what you mean?

I can’t fig people out they are going to spend money so there is a tax that we have to pay its life and if you feel the need to complain about it then just keep the 5 10 or 20 bucks in your back pocket don’t spend it. If you spend it you don’t have it. 10 bucks is 10 bucks.

Yes, JB, that is precisely what I mean. Up or down, it really does not matter.

So tell me, JB, do you know what the GST + the PST will be in BC in 2 years from now? Could BC’s sales tax be lower than it is now in two years? Could it be higher? Could it be the same?

You do not know, do you?

Neither do I.

So the point you are trying to make is what? The same that I made?

BTW, the lowest provincial income tax paid by BC residents with a taxable income of $37,568 (the BC threshold for the lowest rate) is $1,900.90.

A Nova Scotia resident making exactly that taxable income has to pay $4,040 in provincial income tax.

BTW, we I do not know what that will be two years from now for either province. Perhaps you have some info on that JB.

BTW, BC and Ontario are within $4 on that provincial tax rate. Quebec is the highest at $6,011.

Since Alberta has a flat tax of 10% it is the only province that works against low income earners and for high income earners.

Of course, none of those figures take any provincial exemptions into consideration.

The interesting thing about Alberta is that with its flat provincial income tax it already has a non-progressive tax in place. That is the province’s economic philosophy. Having a non-progressive sales tax in place does nothing to change that. So why introduce it. Simply adjust the income tax rate up or down as needed.

Again, I do did not look into what exemptions or grants are in place. That could change the picture.

Governments will tax to the extent that is necessary to fund programs and services. It’s a simple as that.

The more complex question is how that taxation pie is allocated amongst individuals and corporations. To a lesser extent, they can also get some of it through tariffs, royalties and stuff like that.

When it comes to income taxes, I have no issue with paying more as a percentage of my income if it means that someone with a lower income pays less. To me that is reasonable. I think flat taxes are inequitable and would be bad public policy.

Gus says…

“Each time I buy prepared food anywhere, I now enjoy a 7% savings. Next year, the province may decide to tax it again under the PST, who knows.”

They don’t get it Gus. These facts when shown in print are invisible to them. They don’t comment on them because they prefer to believe their own BS.

gus: “So the point you are trying to make is what? The same that I made?”

I think so. Why did you respond then?

It doesn’t matter if the tax would have been 10% in two years or whatever.

The corporations would still be paying 0%,so it would just be made up by us somewhere else.

“Corporations” can only be taxed effectively for the benefit of the country if the money they get that’s taxed is ultimately paid by someone outside the country.

This was the great advantage the PST had, and now has again, over the HST.

While goods produced here for export are not subject to PST or HST, all the ‘costs’ of producing those goods that were subject to the PST paid by ‘corporations’, including the PST on the capital costs of the equipment utilised, had to be charged into the price of the final product and collected, in that price, from the foreigners receiving our exports.

With HST they didn’t, and we we’re effectively giving the foreign buyers of our products a tax cut. At our greater expense. Which may not have been so bad in terms of our ‘global competitiveness’ if our sole focus is on ’employment’, but it effectively means BC citizens are really taking a hefty cut in pay just so they can say they’re ‘working’.

If we want to exalt ‘work’ itself, which properly should be a mere means to an end, not an end in itself, then the HST was clearly a great means of doing that.

If we believe instead that there is actually some other purpose to ‘work’ besides endlessly making us all do more of it, the PST is far superior.

Considering that 80% of what is produced in BC is exported, then one begins to see (with the exception of JohnnyBelt) how the HST worked for the benefit of the exporting companies.

The HST saved business something to the tune of $2.6 Billion a year in taxes. This $2.6 Billion was paid for by consumers, by adding the 110 items that used to be tax exempt from the 7% PST to be taxable. This is how the savings came about.

In other words, consumers paid the taxes that used to be paid by business. Business got tax credits on all their exports which they used of offset the cost of manufacturing their products, and Walla, they saved $2.6 Billion per year.

The consumers got hosed, however they were able to turn this issue around, and are now back to not paying PST on the exempt items.

To suggest that they will pay higher prices when they buy the products in BC is hogwash because there is very little produced in BC that you would buy, unless you are in the market for a carload of coal, sulphur, copper concentrate, woodpulp, lumber, etc etc.

The HST was the ultimate con game put on by business and the Liberal Government, exceeded only by the Brian Mulrooney con of getting rid of the 13% manufacturing tax, and recouping the revenue through the GST. In other words, Corporate Welfare at its best.

JohnnyBelt, and many like him seems to have misunderstood the whole issue.

Have a nice day.

Palopu: “JohnnyBelt, and many like him seems to have misunderstood the whole issue.”

Funny how when one doesn’t see it your way, then they must have simply ‘misunderstood’ it. I guess that’s why they’ve implemented the HST in Ontario, Nova Scotia, PEI, New Brunswick, and Newfoundland.

The HST referendum was just an outlet for voters (like Palopu) who wanted to stick it to the government, regardless of whether or not the HST was good policy.

Have a nice day.

JohnnyBelt.

I notice you skirt the issue of it being a $2.6 Billion tax shift from Corporations to Consumers.

Even Carole Taylor ex Finance Minister for the Liberals stated is was nothing more than a tax shift, and still people pretend that it was a progressive tax.

Progressive for who??

Those Provinces you mentioned sat on their collective asses and let their Governments stick it to them. We in BC told the Corporations, and the Government to take a hike.

I hope Campbell is enjoying Britain. Hopefully Hansen, and his cronies are enjoying their retirement. (forced)

Have a nice day.

Palopu: “I notice you skirt the issue of it being a $2.6 Billion tax shift from Corporations to Consumers.”

Not at all. Do you think businesses just ate the cost of reverting back to the PST/GST without passing it onto consumers? You’re dreaming in technicolor if you believe that.

What about the $1.6 Billion we have to pay back to the Feds? You probably think this is mere pocket change.

Have a nice day.

Did we ever actually receive the $ 1.6 billion we supposedly have to pay back to the Feds?

One report I saw stated that Campbell didn’t get this amount as one lump sum, didn’t even want to get it that way. It was to be received in stages, with the largest amount receivable in the fiscal period just before the last BC election.

So he could spend it then, and ‘buy’ some votes as the Great Helmsman who’d steered us through troubled economic waters successfully.

As for Carole Taylor, who was the one BC Liberal who seemed to have some actual business knowledge regarding finance, I believe she is on record as stating that the increased Federal Income Tax take from the BC corporate sector with the HST in place would ANNUALLY exceed the $ 1.6 billion ONE TIME bribe the Feds offered Campbell to bring in the HST.

I don’t think we should be paying the Feds back anything. They’ve already been paid.

BTW, at one point in the struggle against the HST, it was mentioned by Vander Zalm that Quebec was the ONLY Province to adopt the HST that got it right. Quebec collects the HST in Quebec, not the Feds, and then gives Ottawa the GST portion of it. We are cutting our own throats in respect to our already eroded provincial sovereignty and local control over our own financial affairs when we surrender ANY further provincial authority to tax to the Federal government. Denigrating provincial sovereignty has long been the policy of the Federal NDP and Federal Liberals. Are the Federal Conservatives, (whose Reform Party component was originally all for increased Provincial rights), and the BC Liberals, (who some mistakenly say are only the successors to BC Social Credit, which always stood for building ‘up from the bottom, not down from the top’), really ANY different? Or does ‘Finance’, which was really the only beneficiary of the HST, as it put us further into its clutches, now control them ALL?

It’s virtually impossible to compare what happened in BC to what happened in Ontario or the Maritimes because each of them had their own unique circumstances.

In Ontario, for example, people already paid PST on restaurant meals, so that wasn’t a new tax when HST came into effect.

In the Maritimes, every Province had different Provincial rules in effect and it made allot of sense for them to harmonize because of the cross border commerce that occurs in the Maritimes on a daily basis. Also, in some of the Maritime Provinces there was a 4-5% drop in rates from what the previous Provincial + Federal rate was.

When it comes to tax policy, you really need to dig into each situation specifically and determine if it makes sense. For BC, I tend to agree with Palopu. In a Province where large corporations are often exporting their goods, I say make those corporations pay the PST to the Province and they can recoup those costs through foreign customers. Shifting that tax burden from foreign customers (ultimately) to BC residents makes no sense whatsoever IMHO.

For small to medium sized business, they were often exempted from PST in the first place so there is really no hit to them to going back to the PST/HST system except for some additional administrative tasks from the accounting side of things. I always got a kick out of big business saying that the accounting for PST/HST regime was costing them millions every year. This from companies who almost certainly had professional accountants on staff full time to manage this stuff for them.

I should add that of course there will be many businesses who would have been better off under an HST regime in BC.

The question that needs to be asked is whether an HST regime is best for the PROVINCE as a whole, or just a certain segment of the population. In these regards, it’s really no different than making any policy decision. Do you do what’s best for the majority or do you do what’s best for a “special interest group”? Yes, business can indeed be one of those . . .