Company made a decision.

That caused an incident.

Public reacted.

Company revised the decision.

Company issued a revised decision and apologized for their initial decision.

The company reacted wisely and quickly reputation crisis incident.

Congratulations!

Breast feeding is a natural act that occurs between a mother and a child, however this should be done with some privacy and discretion regardless of how one feels about the act of feeding your child. Common sense indicated there are individuals who will derive a great deal of joy from gawking at this bond between mother and child in a public setting.

Hygiene is a concern and this is not a “choice the mall should make” but a call that needs to come from the Health Protection branch of Northern Health. Cross contamination and infection and transmission of infectious disease is the purview that only a health inspector can give a final answer on.

Breast feeding should be permitted where privacy can be offered, if no such place exists then it needs to be confined to a restroom or family room. Not in the general public area of the mall. A bit of humility should be used when caring for a child in public.

You are jumping to conclusions. Unless you were there or read details elsewhere or spoke to someone about it, you know nothing about how the child was being breastfed.

The security guard should be fired. Professional perhaps you need to take your meals in a private area where no one can see you. It is comments likes yours that give Prince George folks a bad name.

For your eyes professional as well as others who feel the same way as you …..

The rest of us can chuckle at the double standard

http://www.earthmamasworld.com/wp-content/uploads/breastfeeding-in-public-1024×763.jpg

“Common sense indicated there are individuals who will derive a great deal of joy from gawking at this bond between mother and child in a public setting”

Then stop staring at the lady trying to feed her child. Done.

Speaking about taking meals in private, I wonder what this sentence was meant to mean:

“The family washroom near the food court has a bench inside for those wishing privacy”

Obviously indirectly meant for breastfeeding mothers. Seems someone knew about the law but chose to find some words around it.

Then again, maybe it was for professional to eat in private as opinionated expressed.

Professional – I suppose you are entitled to your opinion, but BC Human Rights Code disagrees with you. And as far as Northern Health goes, I’d think they’d be the first to jump up and support mothers feeding their children wherever and whenever necessary.

Feeding in the washroom??? You are worried about the sanitation of breastfeeding in a public area but you want a baby to have his/her lunch next to a toilet? Just think about that for a minute.

Why does it repost my postings when I refresh the page? No wonder I see multi-posts on here so often.

Love the comic gus!

So my point was to show there are two and some times three points of view on any issue. I agree with breast feeding children, but also there should be some consideration given to those who may take offense to such activities in a public setting.

Firing the security guard is not an option simply because they were following instructions from Pine Center Administration, if folks are fired up about this you need to call the Canada Pension Plan and complain to them, they own the mall.

It is what it is, just making the point, where does one draw the line on what is appropriate and what’s not in a public setting?

Gus where you there, did you witness how this was done? I am guessing not, just commenting the way you do, get over it.

“Firing the security guard is not an option simply because they were following instructions from Pine Center Administration”

How do you know that?

Perhaps it was his interpretation of the written instructions. If they were explicit in their verbal instructions to him/her, then it is another story.

In fact, someone who patrols a mall or other public place needs to be instructed is some legal matters that deal with what may and what may not be done in a public place.

I suspect that the Mall management is not free of blame since it likely did not include instruction in the laws of breastfeeding in public when good management practice dictates that they ought to have.

I am not sure, but I think August is breastfeeding month …..

Why should the security guard be fired? All they were doing was their job of along with complaints made to mall administration. Everyone is arguing that its against the law to not allow breast feeding in public, but everyone is overlooking that the mall is private property & they can make any policies they like( example no pets). Granted they you be foolish to do so. Also as a father of a infant I am aware of how often babies need to feed, but also how much they can spit up & the mess it makes of carpet.

See my first post … I got over it then because they made a mistake and relatively quickly apologized. With tools such as facebook, things happen fast in the world of crisis management and the management of Pine Centre were up to dealing with it in the proper manner.

We are now in the cleanup phase. They have more work to do internally.

If it is actually breast feeding month, then they have an ideal, though late, opportunity to make a positive statement out of a negative incident.

“consideration given to those who may take offense to such activities in a public setting.
You have got to be kidding??? Offended by feeding a child????? What kind of professional could you possibly be who could make such a statement? You offend me as well as other with your post. Methinks you really need some professional help. Now go grab lunch and fine the nearest toilet where you can enjoy it.

“everyone is overlooking that the mall is private property & they can make any policies they like( example no pets)”

Actually I think they are not. It is you who does not understand the legal restrictions placed on a private business that opens its premises to the public.

Your way of thinking has changed since 1867.

No pets is sanctioned in Canada for health reasons.

Looks like the Mall may have been thinking along the lines of health based on their memo.

Interesting how so many men seem to have an opinion about breast feeding in public.

Not that your “expert” opinions on this subject don’t count guys, however I am more interested in women’s points of view on this subject.

Some employees at Pine Centre Mall have decided that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (which guarantees the rights of a woman to breastfeed her child wherever and whenever) does not pertain to the play area at the mall. Look up the Charter.

The mall and the security company obviously have not been trained in Human Right laws. With companies such as these it should be mandatory when working with such a large number of the public.

Grimfaus -It is against the law not not allow it – look up the charter. Your idea of private property would not stand up in a Human Rights tribunal.

There was discretion and this is not the first time this has happened at the mall.

The first week of August was the 2014 World Breastfeeding week.

Good to all the women involved in making this public.

A seemingly complicated issue that shouldn’t be complicated at all. First, I’d just like to say that anyone who has a problem with a woman breastfeeding their child, irregardless of how she does it, has a problem that they should seek psychiatric help for, because you’re dead wrong.

Second, irrespective of the charter of rights and freedoms, I believe in a business’ right to refuse service to anyone they so choose. From there, it’s a matter of choice as to whether the public chooses to continue to support that behaviour and policy by patronizing that business. The End.

In Washington state people have a right to openly carry a gun in public. Some people come shopping with a holstered pistol. Kind of mindblowing to some of us when we first see that.

The interesting thing is that businesses are lobbying to the State to change the law so that they can restrict access such as they do with “no shirt, no shoes, no service”.

It is a well known standard of practice that businesses that open their property to the public cannot act differently than other public spaces.

The NRA will, of course, have a strong say in the case of guns.

I assume that health authorities and organizations promoting breast feeding will do the same with making sure the laws will be enforced with public breastfeeding.

The idea of changing their “policies” is a scapegoat. The Human Rights Charter outways the “Policy” by a landslide.

“I believe in a business’ right to refuse service to anyone they so choose”

You may believe what you like. However, the law of many decades and centuries is no longer on your side.

Go sit in the back of the bus.

How can I tell I am on a PG blog?

Easy …. by the depth of the prejudice that still exists about basic human rights.

You know, that scale that NMG pasted yesterday of advances cities in the world that deals in part with tolerance ….. 61 cities included so far ……. PG will be off the charts if they ever get around to measuring some smaller communities.

Hope this will settle the opinions of some….

http://www.ag.gov.bc.ca/human-rights-protection/pdfs/SexDiscrimination&Harassment.pdf

Pregnant and Breastfeeding Women
It is illegal to discriminate against a woman because she may become pregnant, is pregnant, or has a baby. Nursing mothers have the right to breastfeed their
children in a public area, and it is discriminatory to ask them to cover up or breastfeed somewhere else.

Where?
The Human Rights Code applies to all businesses, agencies, and services in B.C., except those regulated by the federal government. It protects people from discrimination in public situations, which include schools, workplaces, universities, hospitals, medical clinics, stores, restaurants, provincial and local government offices, and transit services. It also protects people against discrimination in printed publications and in areas such as employment, tenancy, and the purchase of property.

Anybody who thinks the mall can make a policy preventing breastfeeding wherever they please is just straight up wrong. Businesses do not have that right in British Columbia. That’s why I think it’s kind of funny that the mall worded it as “changing their policy” and “allowing breastfeeding”. It was never in their power to create such a policy in the first place and mothers don’t require their permission!

Personally I fed my baby in there pretty regularly. I guess I sat at the back so no one noticed. It seemed to make sense because I had a toddler as well so it allowed her to be entertained during the feeding process. It’s pretty much the perfect set up for feeding with multiple kids.

If they really want to encourage mothers to feed elsewhere (breast or bottle) they could try offering a family room that is separate from toilets. I went to this one in a Montreal mall once. It was amazing. Comfy seating, a kettle to heat water for bottle warming, a little table with some toys for the older kids…heaven. Very expensive I suppose, but you know – could have saved some bucks on that fancy carpet they put in the play area that they don’t want ruined.

Nice to see “people” standing up for their basic human rights in a business lead and run society.

Be vigilant everyone, business does not “allow” us to have the rights we have ALWAYS had! In this case, chalk one up to our breast feeding mothers… *claps and cheers to you!

Health debate is a good thing as we all learn from the experience, however personal shots and slights are never needed nor are they productive to the debate as a whole.

As I posted earlier there are always two sides to and issue. Which side is right doesn’t matter so long as one realizes there are various opinions to the topic, thus a chance to find options that can make positive changes that may satisfy the majority.

Why make change when babies are being fed happily and no one is being harmed? I have a feeling the majority are satisfied, particularly if you include the babies who need to eat and the older siblings who don’t want to be sat next to toilet every time their brother or sister has to eat.

I just do not understand why a mother should have to basically exit life and remove her family from a public place just to accommodate a few people who can’t handle a teeny bit of breast. You know how often my little one ate in the first few months of her life? Every 1.5-2 hours minimum. And sometimes she’d go through cluster feeds where it was all the time. And early on it took anywhere from 20 minutes to 60 minutes to complete a feed. An hour in the bathroom? What about all the handicapped people who actually have to pee? The very thought of it is ludicrous. May as well just tell new mothers to stay home.

A recent article:

From The Nova Scotia Department of Agriculture “Babies in restaurants in and of themselves don’t represent a food safety risk,” read the statement.

http://www.ag.gov.bc.ca/human-rights-protection/pdfs/SexDiscrimination&Harassment.pdf

You can not legally tell a woman to breastfeed elsewhere, no matter where she is in this fine province. Nor can you tell her to be discrete. Enough said.

It’s the same mall that allowed a misleading poster about Prince George water fluoridation to be displayed on a bulletin board for many months but flatly refused a polite request to allow an informational poster with a different take on artificial water fluoridation to be posted anywhere in the mall.

Pine Center mall is not jus a business, it is a place that supports business. The artificial fluoridation of water is a business; so it’s business supporting business… enough said?

Must be a slow news day.

Pine Center Mall’s approach to begin with was absolutely disgusting and yes there are some perverts out there who would take “great joy in seeing this happen”‘ however, it is one of the most natural things a mother does with her baby and there should be absolutely no concern by anyone that it happens. It’s peoples pet peeves, personalities, and ignorance that gets in the way. Leave them be, we were all babies once and did the same thing, get over yourselves.

“and I am here to say I have seen some incidents of breast feeding that shouldn’t be out there for anyone to see….” Why don’t you stop staring at a woman while she is feeding her child? Does a woman wearing a bikini offend you? Probably not because woman’s breasts have been sexualized so much in today’s society that they should be shamed by using them for what they were made for in the first place. I have never noticed a woman feeding her child in public. Maybe it’s because I don’t stare at people. Would you rather a baby scream because they are hungry or be happily fed from their mothers breast? Pine Center mall is just another embarrassment to our city. Good for all the moms, dads and woman who are not even moms to stick up for our human rights.

I rarely go to the mall play area. I was told to leave by mall administration. I was there watching my children play. One older, and by the “rules” he’s allowed to be there if playing with a younger sibling, and the baby. I was told to leave because the older one, who was 11 and I’m quoting the guard. “Is just to big, just look at him.” I asked him to repeat himself, did I just hear that!? My boy is a larger fella, he’s an active lacrosse and football player. I have never in my life been so appalled. To pick out a boy make him sit down. He replied back to him with a respectful “yes sir.” And proceeded to cry. He wasn’t crying because he couldn’t play he cried because a man implied he was fat. A person,a mall security guard, who would is suppose to represent “safety and protection” in a child’s eyes, made a child cry. Disgusting. And just to keep with the topic of breast feeding. At the time of the incident I was still a breast feeding mom, the baby being 1 1/2, I was then considered an extended breast feeder. Public or not if he was hungry I fed him. Looks and all. My reply, it’s my right (and responsibility) to nourish my child. I will do so where I choose. I will do it with respect and decency, much more than the average teen’s “outfit”, whose tatas are a giggling and popping out if their shirts. My favorite part of the above story, she was offered the washroom, who likes to eat in the bathroom, let alone a public washroom!?

If you are offended by woman breastfeeding in the mall BCRacer, I’d suggest you avoid the area around La Senza.

I never used any sort of cover because my baby didn’t like them and neither did I. Don’t want to see it, don’t look. I encounter things all the time that I don’t want to see. Right now there is a mouse corpse with flies all over it on my deck. It was kind of grossing me out so I did this really crazy thing and stopped staring at it. Should probably take care of that situation at some point though. Unlike breast milk, mouse corpses are most definitely unsanitary.

The adjective discreet means prudently self-restrained or tactful.
Discrete means distinct or separate.

Breast feeding a child is a natural act, be it in public or private.
It is up to the mother’s sense of decorum to be discreet when breastfeeding in public, but if she is not shy and allows a breast to show, then it is up to passersby to look the other way. The female breast is not a sex object, it is a gland meant for the nourishment of infant children.

Any suggestion that the security guard be fired is ridiculous.
metalman.

Hope you all don’t mind when I rearrange the boys.

North America is the only place on the planet that has an issue with nakedness! And we are supposed to be the civilized ones.

I find it disgusting that grown adults not only consume milk but the milk of another species. Next time you bring that glass of moo up to your lips think about the big ugly hairy teat it came out of…..yum!

metalman, you suggest that the female breast is not a sex object, it is a gland meant for the nourishment of infant children.

I’ll agree that it is a gland for the nourishment of infant children, but as far as it not being a sex object, well it seems to me that many many women are perfectly happy with breasts being considered sex objects. Take a walk past La Senza and look at the pictures on display! La Senza, Victoria’s Secrets etc all seem to do a pretty good business selling bras to women, bras to push up, push out, separate, squeeze together, lift and otherwise put on display something that is just for the nourishment of infants! This leaves me confused. Are breasts just for feeding infants? If so, why does La Senza have images in their windows, images that appear to sexualize breasts? And why are women shopping there?

I don’t have a problem with women breastfeeding in public. If the infant is hungry, then feed him/her!! But I do remember a time when something called modesty was commonplace. Nowadays it seems like anything goes and to heck with what anybody thinks. With that in mind, maybe I’ll agree with Seamutt in hoping that nobody minds if we sit next to them while rearranging the boys. Maybe the boys might need a scratch or two as well!

You know what offends me? Guys peeing in alleyways!!!!

Noway try a middle east Islamic country. Don’t lose your head.

Who actually walks up to a women breast feeding and tells her to leave, and use the washroom? Its hard to believe someone would do that in this day and age.

Babies have stomachs smaller than a hacky sac, and eat no solids… so of course they need to feed often. The mom doesn’t really get to choose when.

My thoughts and a question, Would the same lady or any lady feel comfortable with a man or lady leering at their breast while baby was feeding? Would they like it if the said freak crossed the room and come to sit beside the lady and baby while feeding? Some reports (not that I believe them, but some do) suggests that girls and lady’s are raped because they show too much of themselves or dress in an improper way, and this turns the freaks on. I understand the baby needs to eat, I also understand there are devices that can capture the milk and use it for another time. I understand it needs to be warm, there are devices that can maintain a temperature. Would it not be better than having some pervert turned on at the sight of a breast? Just my thoughts.

“people being allowed to change babies diapers on the tables in the food court?”

Turn about is fair play as people are suggesting that the feeding of babies be confined to a room where people urinate and defecate.

Apparently, August 25, 2013 is “Go Topless Day”. Anyone know of any local celebrations ?

…mountains out of mole hills…

If a guy wants to blatantly his balls in public, he can go right ahead. Doesn’t affect my life and he just looks kind of socially off. I’m not sure how that compares or why it would matter to me though.

Diapers on tables? That’s feces we’re talking about.

These arguments are all pretty pathetic. How often do you actually see a woman feeding her baby in such a way that you actually see a bunch of boob? Really. Next to never I’m guessing. If mountains are being made out if molehills, they are being constructed by those who can’t handle the sight of a mother feeding her baby.

@BCracer – if you are not staring at the woman then how would you even notice she was feeding? Woman do not usually have both their breasts hanging out while feeding. Most woman are discreet while nursing. I have been in enough places to find it strange that you can even notice a woman feeding her child. @teacher – before you spew out nonsense about being connected to a pump you should educate yourself on breastfeeding. It is supply and demand. Why should a mother have to purchase a pump and bottles to make sure she doesn’t offend somebody seeing some of her breast? As for having some creeper come and sit beside you while you feed; I am sure the mother is capable of getting up and walking away. There are creepers that are out there that have many different fetishs are we going to hide in our homes? As for the statement about comparing nursing to changing diapers on a food court table. That is messed up, and is not even comparable. Maybe if some people would open their minds that nursing is a natural act, new mothers would not feel that it was taboo to nurse their children.

My second kid wouldn’t even take a bottle. I tried so I could go out now and then for more than an hour. She wasn’t having any of it. Thank goodness because I hate pumps. Any dude who thinks it is just that easy to pump a bottle to take with you every time you need to go out should try it some time. Oh wait, you can’t. So maybe just keep your mouth shut.

News story about indignant Facebook rage spurs indignant O-250 rage. Welcome to Planet Lame.

Seamutt, unless your ‘boys’ serve a useful purpose, such as providing nourishment, I don’t think they should need regular attention. You won’t find many women who shift their breasts around in the middle of a crowd, but you would be surprised at the number of men who seem to unconsciously shift the package around quite regularly.

While I don’t care to see it, I don’t complain when I see guys feeling themselves up in public.

Feeding a child in a toilet area is absurd. The mall, its ‘rules’, employees and understanding of the law was wrong, and they realized it when someone finally challenged them. Welcome to the 21st century, Pine Centre!

To respond to middle finger, the Mayor of Kelowna participated in a good hearted spoof about the topless day a couple of days ago. The headline was linked on 250NEWS on the right hand panel.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/08/24/lori-welbourne-topless-reporter-kelowna-mayor_n_3810043.html

=======================================

BTW, I think the cleavage exposed by some while dressed can be more than is exposed by many who breast feed.

I think we are talking more than just exposure. I think we are talking about the very act of breast feeding itself, even when it is entirely covered up.

I believe that no one has brought up the fact that the manager of the Mall who would have to approve such a directive is a woman.

I also understand that there was a “nurse-in” at the Mall on Saturday before there was a retraction. So, the issue had escalated.

Finally, it also appears that the mom was offered other spots nearby to sit down to breastfeed other than the “family” washroom, which is, of course, also against the laws of the country.

I’ve seen women adjust their breasts and clothing in public quite often. Discretion is the key, not like the women who sat in front of the Windows at the Purden ski resort not covered up breast feeding facing the crowd. Class act.