Good news about the hotel.

But no news about the condo deveopment? Is that dead?

More info:

http://www.newswire.ca/fr/story/1237825/delta-hotels-and-resorts-announces-new-prince-george-property-to-serve-british-columbia-s-vibrant-northern-capital

Oh and from that link, Mayor Green says that PG is in “one of the fastest growing regions in the country”. She also talks about a “growing vibrancy in downtown PG”.

Now don’t get me wrong, I think this is a great development for PG, but did the Mayor slip and bump her head on something?

I don’t recall the last time that PG’s downtown could be used in the same sentence as vibrant. And one of the fastest growing regions in the COUNTRY????? Why does she continue to spew this nonsense when it’s so easily refuted?

http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/Files/dba35f79-cf42-45cb-bb3a-64b542bdd0bb/OverviewoftheBCandRegionalPopulationProjections2013-2036.pdf

That’s just BC and it’s obvious that the PG region is pretty much expected to be stagnant for the next couple of decades . . .

Yeah, its sad about low cost housing or affordable condos etc for the majority of low income people or lets get right: to the poor people that live in the downdown area as downtown is where they converge. I guess they could ask HR for an increase that they may stay in the lobby of this 4 star hotel for at least $50.00 a night. Sad.
Well, everyone knows that this hotel is showing our artsy farsty culturally correct city, I hope it looks nothing like the architectural disaster that is on Victoria Steet.

How many parking spaces are required by bylaw, and how many will there be after this developer seeks a variance on the number of required parking spaces?

loose the Ranch Motel … gain the Delta Hotel and Resort … this is a good trade up … perhaps there is a lesson here for Mike Gillis and the Canucks

parking spaces, what ya mean. Don’t these clients fly into town and take a cab to the fancy smancy hotel.

Yep, they will have 7 spaces, all for vehicles the size of the Mini cooper.

“That’s just BC and it’s obvious that the PG region is pretty much expected to be stagnant for the next couple of decades . . .”

Two decades of stagnation? I suspect that Delta did a lot of research before it decided to give this major project the green light!

Why the gloom and doom?

How quickly people forget. As the “old timers” know, the Coast was originally called the DELTA Inn of the North. For the day, it most definitely had four star service. That was lost when it changed to the Coast or soon thereafter.

I would not count the Coast out yet. This may put a rocket in their behind to move back up the chain and give Delta a run for their money. There are 7 containers sitting in the south parking lot right ready to be used for the renovations going on there.

It is great to have a Delta level hotel here once more. A 4,000 sq foot ballroom is not exactly large.

I would like to see the rest of the building on the east side. That is the side that faces the Civic Centre and square. That is needed badly, in my opinion, a restaurant an meeting room lobby which has a view to that plaza. A wrap around public services area on the southern part of the building which has views to the east, south and west would have been ideal.

There is no mention of condos. The building volume shown in the promotional renderings is about right for 170 rooms + service areas.

Do not worry, they will have enough parking one way or another, the same as the Inn has. They have to take care of their clients. They may be looking for some shared parking situation for the “ballroom” + meeting rooms facilities.

It would have been interesting to have the initial proposal built, but this is great as well.

As far a a vibrant city ….. well it has not been for some time ….. it may yet become that again, but it has a long way to go.

I think that if the PETRONAS development goes ahead along with a few other in Kitimat, BC will have a golden triangle of the 21st century in Kitimat, Prince Rupert and Terrace. PG will grow, but will not be leading the pack.

“Why the gloom and doom?”

Easy, it is a government of BC projection based on the past that is likely to be just as wrong as the projections of 200,000 population by the turn of the millennium was in the mid 1970s.

Those projections, btw, come from a real estate group, if I remember correctly. Has already been dealt with on this site a few years ago when those projections were used in the “smart growth on the ground” exercise. Nothing new there.

I don’t understand why this is a big deal when the announcement regarding this hotel and the Delta ownership was made more than a year ago? Except the original announcement contained the condo options? How is this ‘new’ news now? I don’t get it. And it’s not a blame against opinion 250 – but really, isn’t this just like the provincial government, when it announces a project gets a splash, and then announces it again for another big splash??????

Yes it is good news. It was good news more than a year ago

gus: “I would not count the Coast out yet. This may put a rocket in their behind to move back up the chain and give Delta a run for their money.”

Agreed. Hope this gets the Coast to pick up their game a bit. They’ve been pretty stagnant for a while and have fallen behind with all the new hotels coming into town.

As for the condos, well, I think it’s safe to say they shelved the whole idea, to nobody’s surprise whatsoever.

Seems Delta doesn’t have that much to risk as the RCHM Corp will be the ones footing all the costs . Thats a lot of loot to get this puppy up and running . Would be interesting to know details of who is paying for what .Wonder if Dan Mclaren is in on this one .

This was the original announcement in April 2012. That was almost a year and a half ago. There was not mention of a Delta, and I believe the name was never published at the time, although it was whispered around the community.

It was 150 room and is not 170 rooms. No mention of sizes of facilities.

So, over 18 months we have gone from a $40 million development to a $35 million development.

What is new is that we actually have a deal, from the looks of it. The original was just a proposal which had no detail drawings of the condo space, no condo sales office on the site, no models, no materials that could be picked out when you put money down on a model …. in other words, there was no serious money or attempt at pre-selling condos from the very start. Kinda obvious it was pie in the sky stuff to people used to the normal way of preselling such a project.

blog/view/23985/1/new+$40+million+hotel+condo+complex+officially+unveiled

This is good news. Couldn’t find a decent hotel to recommend for some associates because of the Richie Brothers auctions. Not alot of choice here… even the treasure cove rooms are looking pretty beat up.

“Seems Delta doesn’t have that much to risk as the RCHM Corp will be the ones footing all the costs.”

This is the way most hotels are built these days. Hotel chains like to remove risk as best as they can, the same as governments.

Even the operations are often franchised rather than the chain operating it. Sort of like McDonalds, Tim Hortons, etc.

There would be a relatively tight lease with non-performance clauses, securities, etc. I would assume a 20 year lease.

If something does not work, such as the Holiday Inn … then they find another name to operate under …. such as Ramada in that case.

Same with the previous Delta in town to Coast.

I assume that RCHM Corp is structuring the deal and cost of the lease to make sure their risk is paid for.

“even the treasure cove rooms are looking pretty beat up”

Cheap interior appointments and lousy maintenance …… likely cause if that is what they look like.

The hotel likely has a high occupancy rating which, coupled with the above will result in earlier signs of wear and tear.

Bits and pieces of info on the Net. Piece them together and one might get more of an idea of what is happening.

This is from a Harrisburg, PA news ABC news outlet.

http://www.abc27.com/story/23626076/delta-hotels-and-resorts-announces-new-prince-george-property-to-serve-british-columbias-vibrant-northern-capital

“The Delta Prince George will be situated in the heart of downtown Prince George’s civic and cultural centre. It will face the Prince George Civic Plaza, Two Rivers Art Gallery, Four Seasons Leisure Pool, Prince George Civic Centre and Prince George Public Library. The new Delta Prince George will be within walking distance of the central business district, and an array of restaurants and parks.”

So, according to this it will open onto the eastern side as well.

“I think that if the PETRONAS development goes ahead along with a few other in Kitimat, BC will have a golden triangle of the 21st century in Kitimat, Prince Rupert and Terrace. PG will grow, but will not be leading the pack.”

Yes I think it will! It’s located at the junction of 97 and 16, a vital aspect and it has an airport with the third longest runway in Canada…capable of handling ANY international traffic, people and cargo.

My predictions are just as good as yours!

ANYTHING can happen and usually it does!

“Two decades of stagnation? I suspect that Delta did a lot of research before it decided to give this major project the green light!

Why the gloom and doom?”

====================================

Two completely different issues PrinceGeorge. I was referring to the quote by the mayor where she said that the PG region is one of the fastest growing in the country. Quite simply, this statement is not even close to being true!!!! She’s either completely ignorant about what she is saying or she doesn’t care that she’s saying things that clearly aren’t accurate. Either way, she looks like a complete fool for saying it. The PG region is not one of the fastest growing in the country and it’s not even one of the fastest growing in BC. That’s reality.

As for the the developers, they have obviously done their research and and determined that they can make money in the PG market. They may not even need PG to grow a significant amount for them to see a return. Like others have commented, there is not another hotel of this calibre currently in PG, so they could quite conceivably come in and take over a sizeable piece of the local market just from the fact that there is no other competitor for what they can offer. Good on them for wanting to take advantage of those market realities in PG and I suspect they will do very well.

I’m not gunning against PG, I actually hope it grows and develops more than it currently is. I just cringe every time I hear someone say things like what the mayor said, because it makes me think they actually believe it. There is a huge difference between being ignorant of one’s reality and being honest about what you are facing and working hard to overcome those challenges. I’d much rather see a mayor of PG face challenges head-on and work to improve the community than to throw out fluff that has no basis in reality.

I should add that I also agree that projections are certainly subject to change, especially when you look at longer term trends.

That said, I don’t think it’s a surprise that when it comes to BC and that September 2013 paper I posted a link to, the Lower Mainland is expected to lead the pack in growth. Next up is the Northeast (again no surprise given the Oil and Gas economy), followed by Vancouver Island and the Thompson/Okanagan.

One could look at the last decade and a half and see those same trends. Population growth rates in those areas have outpaced the rest of the Province by a considerable margin and there is really no reason to believe that it won’t continue. All one has to do is drive through those places to see it with their own eyes.

There are all sorts of overlap issues when talking about growth and I’m sort of scared for PG that the mayor doesn’t have the aptitude to enter into a reasonable discussion about it. How could she if she is saying stuff like that? Do mayors from other communities in BC (places that are growing) look at her like she has three heads when they hear her say stuff like that? Can she even discuss these issues with those people in an intelligent manner?

LOL…When Shari asks the mirror mirror on the wall who is the fairest of them all, the mirror says ” you are, Princess of Georgette “.

BTW, the new Sandman Inn on HWY16W bills itself as a 4 star hotel.

I would not agree with that. I do have some problem with someone going hyperbole again and stating that it is the first one in PG. That is as good as saying that the original Delta built here almost 50 years ago was not a 4 star hotel when it certainly met the criteria for that rating.

Flashback 1966 ….. 47 years ago

“Premier W. A. C. Bennett attended celebrations marking the opening of the Inn of the North hotel in June.

The building represented a $4.5 million investment by the Delta Hotel chain and a great expression of confidence in the city’s future.

Prince George fit within Delta’s policy of investing in growing industrial communities.

The nine-storey structure accommodated 160 guest rooms, banquet and beverage facilities and retail space.”

It worked once …. should work again at 10 times the price. Same formula as the first one; almost the same location.

a “four star” rating is not really that special … take a look at the link to see what the industry standards are for a “four star” … now if a “seven star” were announced, that would be just weird .. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_rating

Loki – re: Parking

The last set of plans I saw had both underground parking and a raised above ground parking area Didn’t count the stalls but I was impressed with the land use management/footprint layout.

This will be a good addition to downtown. Hopefully an upscale restaurant will be part of the picture.

Whenever I’m travelling, I want a comfortable bed, a clean and modern room, excellent service when needed and easy access to restaurants and amenities.

I’ve stayed in some five star hotels that had 2 of those 4 and I’ve stayed in 3 star hotels that had 4 of the 4. IMHO, the success of the Delta will be in their execution. I think it’s in a great spot and unless they price themselves out of the market, there is really no reason why they couldn’t be the #1 choice in PG for business travel, conferences and tourists. I think the Coast is the only real competition for them at the moment.

Can someone help me visualize the location? It says across from the old police station, but where exactly? IS it going by the library where all of the police cars used to park?

NMG … yes, that is the lot … take a look on Google maps for the Coast Inn of the North … zoom in a bit …. and then you can see the location very clearly

Cool, thanks anotherside!

it would be interesting to see a count of 4 star hotel rooms in PG over the years … I suspect that the current number available in the down town area is down over the 1985 count … four star rooms out of the downtown core do not fit the same business traveler’s needs niche as downtown … so competition from the Sandman, etc is not really head to head competition …

NMG, sorry if I implied that the gloom and doom is connected to you when in fact it isn’t.

As for the mayor, I have stopped taking anything coming from there seriously. Years ago there was a book in circulation about the Peter Principle. I believe we have a case here of the Peter Principle in action.

It’s not pretty.

I believe that I have the Peter Principle book somewhere. The concept is basically promoting people to a level where they are incompetent.

Hmmm, just wondering where the river is going to start that will be running through the downtown part of the city or did the planning department forget about the long term goal the city actually has plans for via the provincial government by 2030 was it? LOL

If they are putting in underground parking, they had better budget for hip waders, that area used to be a swamp. I’ll bet the water table there is fairly near the surface in the spring of the year.
metalman.

The Coast and the Library have surface parking below all or parts of their buildings. All it would have to be in the case of the Delta is a near match of the entry storey to the levels of the Coast and Library. If you take a look at the Coast, they have three parking levels.

Given a large enough property taking advantage of the slopes of the land around there should provide the same opportunities.