Looks like they are doing some action quickly to get jobs for the people affected. Hopefully they will keep doing it for the next year instead of having it as a upfront media thing.

Having to react to sawmill closures through tragic accidents like the Lakeland and Babine Forest Products explosions is one thing, but knowing in advance that sawmills were going to close, and doing nothing to even plan to help those communities?

Yup.. sounds like a Lib-Con government to me!

With the Babine mill being rebuilt, is it any surprise another mill in the region would close?

So what does he expect, a provincial government press release? If the government did know in advance and run around telling the media about it then I would think the shareholders of those companies would have a very good lawsuit against them.

You make a valid point Dragonmaster.

@ interceptor, of course not! It should always be money, business and profit before “people” right? Like you, our first thoughts should be with the poor forest company and their shareholders right interceptor? “People” losing their jobs, and possibly houses and vehicles should be just an after thought.

I say people first!!!

Oh those poor poor forest companies…

http://www.timescolonist.com/business/west-fraser-timber-reports-third-quarter-sales-and-profit-up-from-year-ago-1.675349

http://www.stockhouse.com/news/business-news/2013/05/02/canfor-corp-reports-first-quarter-profit-sales-up-from-year-ago

Tell us, interceptor will there be a stocking fund for these companies so we can donate money to them come Christmas time? Because we know it won’t be a happy time for a lot of “people” in Houston and Quesnel.

Yes, the Liberals and their friends should have been out in the bush engaging in hand to hand combat with the pine beetles.

Anything the government could have done would have had to had been started a decade ago when people KNEW that the MPB was going to cause serious issues for the future of forestry in BC. That didn’t happen because governments typically think year to year and term to term. Years of inaction while forests turned red and grey should have been more than enough of a message for those who thought that the government would intervene.

This is just the beginning folks and there won’t be any press releases saying that. Go for a walk, look at the forests and draw your own conclusions.

Well wasn’t it the same party that made the decision not to burn out the pine beetle in Tweedsmuir Park back in the 90’s when they knew what the impact was going to be. Dix, you are a hypocrite, you were working with the NDP and would have known what the price was going to be paid by every mill worker in Northern BC.

Don’t start pointing fingers.

Really, the average mill worker in these mills knows what was coming down the line. They knew that it was not going to be long. Im sure the unions would have told the men of the same.

Dix, your just trying to capture what ever lime light you can, but in reality, the average millworker knows that this province can not be handed over to a bunch of socialists.

I am going to assume that you have a pension People? If so the funds will be invested in companies such as these. So until such time as you are completely self sufficient you are a hypocrite. Your “Merry Christmas” when you retire will be on the backs of other “people”.
Or would you happily give up your pension when the stocks tank because the government interfered?

Thanks for the Christmas wish interceptor, could you pass those warm sentiments on to your friends at Canfor and West Fraser as well?

@ NMG. your comment on the government inaction regarding the MPB is spot on, and also applies to global warming… in other words (and I only use three of them): we… are… screwed…

Aren’t those the same people who did nothing about the pine beetle epidemic escaping from the provincial park?

If I was a mill worker, I would be looking at getting into a program to be retrained or going back to school. Or maybe I would be consulting with my co-workers about opening a business. The writing has been on the wall for a long time.

I think these companies have a hard time finding foresters because people aren’t training as foresters because of that same writing on the wall.

People need to be proactive and take care of themselves. They shouldn’t be sitting around waiting for the government of the day to help them.

Posted by: People#1 on October 30 2013 1:10 PM
You make a valid point Dragonmaster.

@ interceptor, of course not! It should always be money, business and profit before “people” right? Like you, our first thoughts should be with the poor forest company and their shareholders right interceptor? “People” losing their jobs, and possibly houses and vehicles should be just an after thought.

I say people first!!!

—————-

Are the shareholders not people too? How many hundreds of thousands of people have pension money in forest company shares? Are you saying they should give up their retirement in order to ensure that three or four hundred people have jobs?

Nobody and I mean nobody, that has worked in the forest industry for parts of the past decade is surprised by any of this; we all knew it was coming.

Dix is just posturing; trying to make an issue where none exists.

bornandbred states; “People need to be proactive and take care of themselves. They shouldn’t be sitting around waiting for the government of the day to help them.”

We hear your message to these 100s of sawmill workers facing lay-offs; it’s every man, woman and child for themselves, look after yourselves, don’t expect us to! What do you think we are? A nanny state?

axman states; “Are the shareholders not people too? How many hundreds of thousands of people have pension money in forest company shares?”

Investors are investors, they can “choose” where to invest their money, but comparing them to sawmill workers who are losing their livelihood is not only unfair, it is asinine!

The fact of the matter is no one on this site has any idea what so ever as to what is actually happening in the forest industry.

We do not know who has what TF Licenses, nor do we know the long term plans of the lumber companies for logging the forests.

As an example Canfor shut down the Upper Fraser Sawmill a number of years ago, and is now trucking logs from the McGregor area to Prince George BC. There was no beetle kill involved in this decision.

We can also ask questions about the closures of The Pas Lumber, Rustads, Clear Lake and many other mills through out BC.

To blame all the downsizing on beetle kill is just a bunch of BS. There is much more involved.

To blame the NDP for the beetle epidemic shows that most people haven’t got a bloody clue about the beetle infestation. I strongly suggest that you read the Governments report on this issue, and quit trying to make political hay out of it.

The **beetle** was responsible for the beetle kill.

I suppose we could blame the l

The beetle killed wood actually kept mills running during the worst part of the market down turn. Reason being the 25 cent stumpage rate on dead and dry wood.

Warm winters and global warming caused the MPB epidemic, but that’s the NDP’s fault as well apparently.

“Investors are investors, they can “choose” where to invest their money, but comparing them to sawmill workers who are losing their livelihood is not only unfair, it is asinine!”

I agree; it’s quite asinine to expect hundreds of thousands of people to lose parts of their investments in order to ensure that three or four hundred people have jobs.

So why didn’t Dix say something? If the Leberals knew wouldn’t the head of the opposition know?

Your fault too People #1 for roaring around in you paid off car and boat!

Posted by: Palopu on October 30 2013 5:13 PM

To blame all the downsizing on beetle kill is just a bunch of BS. There is much more involved.

———————

I think a lot of the blame can be laid at the feet of the burgeoning global economy. We want to be part of it and this is the price we have to pay.

Which raises the question, “do we really need to be part of it?” I honestly don’t know but if we look at some of the countries that don’t belong (eg, Cuba, North Korea) it ain’t pretty being on the outside looking in.

Two words: “Skeena Cellulose”.

’nuff said.

What car and boat NoWay? I am just a pimply faced kid studying for my econometric’s exam in my parent’s basement.

Palopu

The statement that logs are being trucked out of the McGregor area is meaningless without knowing a quantity. Is it enough to keep the old mill running for a week, a month or for the full year? Are the logs being directed to another mill so that they have sufficient feedstock to run the mill at capacity? Has this mill lost some of its AAC because of bugkill in their traditional harvest area?

gus had a good post on another thread on how the mills must run at or near capacity to stay economically viable. You question the closure of some ancient mills even as the companies are closing mills that could make money if they had enough timber.

As for the long term plans, talk to any RPF at any of the companies or the MOF as they can provide harvesting plans for the next decade at least.

or do a little reading

http://www.gov.bc.ca/for/

axman state there is a “burgeoning global economy”… umm… what burgeoning global economy?

He then goes on to list Cuba and North Korea as examples of poor economies. Gee, I wonder if the trade sanctions and embargoes in place against those two countries for years has affected their economies? Do you think maybe?

People#1, as usual your comments are boring, clueless, unrealistic, tiresome, long-winded, out to lunch, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!!

Oops, did I forget to mention blah, blah, blah???

You seem so gosh darn unhappy here! Have you checked into the immigration policies in Russia, North Korea or China? I’m sure that they would accept you with open arms! We won’t miss you!

Posted by: People#1 on October 30 2013 6:36 PM
axman state there is a “burgeoning global economy”… umm… what burgeoning global economy?

He then goes on to list Cuba and North Korea as examples of poor economies. Gee, I wonder if the trade sanctions and embargoes in place against those two countries for years has affected their economies? Do you think maybe?

——————-

Nowhere did I use them as examples of “poor economies”. I used them as examples of countries who do not want to be a part of the burgeoning global economy. It’s not working out so good for them now is it?

@ Hart Guy; on one discussion thread I have been accused of looking at the world through “rose coloured glasses”, yet here you accuse me of being “unhappy”.

Umm… maybe it’s because of the nature of the news stories that are being commented on? Could you please share with the rest of us what is so joyous and happy about sawmills closing in Houston and Quesnel and laid-off workers. I suppose, to you this would be a “happy” occasion?

Wow… just wow…

Lonsome Sparrow. Your questions are exactly what I am talking about. Most people on this site (including myself) do not have the answers to these questions.

The answers lie in the offices of the BC Government, and the Corporations, and they are not going to be sharing that info with us any time soon.

We should keep in mind that Eurocan Pulp closed down, so they are not using any chips in that area, all these woodchips from that part of the Country now come to Prince George Pulp Mills. In addition some mills were closed in MacKenzie plus the Newsprint Mill.

So have we lost enough capacity to offset the loss of timber from beetle kill?? Who the hell knows.

Log exports just through the Port of Prince Rupert in tonnes as follows.

2009–215411
2010–349473
2011–510653
2012–324269
2013–297882 YTD

Log exports from BC in dollars.

2007–$369,000,000.00
2008–$278,000,000.00
2009–$249,000,000.00
2010–$373,000,000.00
2011–$588,000,000.00
2012–$577,000,000.00

Tell me again about the fibre shortage.

@ axman; How can those two countries not “want” to be a part of the global economy. Wow… you do understand that they “can’t” be a part of the global economy because of trade sanctions against them?

If you cannot get that point, then:

http://cheezburger.com/6262765056

Just because logs are being exported it does not mean they would satisfy the needs of interior mills. Some of those coastal logs would not even fit in the local mills never mind getting through the debarker or other machinery. I would imagine that WF and Canfor went out west to have a boo before deciding the fate of the mills in Houston and Quesnel.

The species is also a problem as Douglas fir is not a good choice for dimensional lumber or framing lumber and I have never seen a hemlock 2×4 at Home Depot.

People#1, to suggest that I or anybody else would be happy that people are being laid off is absolutely ridiculous!

Sadly, layoffs are a very real possibility for most people! There’s a reason our parents and grandparents told us about putting some money away for a rainy day! For these mill workers, it’s now pouring rain!!

Hopefully, if and when you grow up and are no longer a pimply faced kid, and after studying and hopefully passing your econometric’s exam and hopefully after you are able to move out of your parent’s basement, you will be able to move on to bigger and better things!

I hear that the NDP is looking for new leader. Perhaps you can aspire to become the leader of the NDP and once in power, you can save us all from the horrible right wing capitalists?!

Guess who’s got lots and lots of good timber? RUSSIA, very close to china too.

First it was the softwood lumber dispute. Even back then, the beetle problem was known and postulated upon by experts.

I have to echo the posters on here regarding mild winters…they have been around since the early 90’s in PG. It truly is a cyclic thing our forests are going through. Unfortunately albeit during these centuries and experienced by us.

It would have been great to be able to get all those critters when they were first discovered, but really folks, could we have eradicated them all?

It was only a matter of time before the accessible denim pine was logged. And now the wood does have a shelf life before it is no good. Unfortunately the remaining infected trees are in areas where it is economically unfeasible for the companies to get to it.

Domino theory…..

The problem with people#1 is that she/he thinks the government should meet all the needs of all the people from when they are bald, toothless and in diapers at both ends of life and everything in between!
Saw your picture posted the other day- think about doing some crunches and look into doing something about the 5 o’clock shadow.

So here we have a government who knew these two mills were slated for closure yet did absolutely nothing! Now we have commenters like ewitt basically saying the government should do nothing!

Lets apply that way of thinking to all kinds of other scenarios; To the lost hunter out in the woods, you got yourself lost now find your way out yourself, why should we have to pay for search and rescue; to the WW2 vet suffering from PTSD and on the street, pick yourself up man, so what if you risked your life protecting our country, but lost your mind in doing so, take care of yourself, don’t expect us to; I could go on, but whats the point.

To all you hundreds of sawmill workers getting lay-off notices for Christmas, you are on your own, apparently it’s not the government’s job to help you!

People #1 you best get back to studying so you can save all the jobs and the planet too!

People#1: “To all you hundreds of sawmill workers getting lay-off notices for Christmas, you are on your own, apparently it’s not the government’s job to help you!”

The government does help laid off people, people. There’s EI.

Sorry People#1, but once again you’re out to lunch! I hate to break it to you, but it is not the government’s responsibility to create jobs.

Jobs are created by the entrepreneurs, investors and businesses that you seem to abhor!

Companies, investors and individuals put their resources at risk in an attempt to generate a return on their investment! The byproduct of the success of their investment is jobs!! When the dastardly corporations and the evil investors remove their capital from the economy, we will all be looking for jobs!!

Some people take a risk, make a gamble and become successful. Others fail in their endeavor and lose money, perhaps even going broke! I wish all of them success, as their success is the rewards for their risk and is a stimulant to our overall economy.

You seem to think that success, profit and positive risk/reward ratios are all part of an evil plot to take advantage of the common man!

I am pleased when I hear that a corporation has made a profit. This means that the employees pay cheques won’t bounce!! I am even more pleased when the corporate profit is passed on to me as dividends on any of the stocks that I own in my personal portfolio!

Sadly, a corporate decision has been made by Canfor and this decision will result in layoffs. This isn’t the first time that people have been laid off by a corporate decision and it certainly won’t be the last!

While this doesn’t provide any comfort for those that have been affected, I’ll take our system over whatever it is that you are offering or promoting anyday!!

Hart Guy states; “Sorry People#1, but once again you’re out to lunch! I hate to break it to you, but it is not the government’s responsibility to create jobs.”

If it’s not the government’s responsibility to create jobs, why does this Liberal government constantly promote their “jobs and economy” mantra? If it’s not the governments responsibility to create jobs, why did the Liberal government even create a “Jobs Plan”?

So who is out to lunch here Hart Guy?… hmm… it’s a week day but you have me going to the fridge for a bottle of wine, who knows, after a couple of bottles I may even begin to smell your cooking, I doubt it though ;-)

It’s simple, People#1, at least it should be! Even for you!

Governments create an environment that will attract and stimulate investment and job growth. They can do this in a number of ways, including reducing red tape, developing infrastructure, increasing training programs to provide necessary workers, providing tax incentives to name only a few!

Wait a minute, why am I even bothering to tell you this? You are the expert at anything and everything, so you already know this, right??

Enjoy your wine, oops I mean WHINE!!!

“Today, British Columbia received a big boost to our economy thanks to the decision by the National Shipbuilding Procurement Program to award an eight year, $8 billion contract to build the next generation of non-combat vessels for the Royal Canadian Navy and the Canadian Coast Guard. We call our jobs plan “Canada Starts Here” and this shows why. It starts with skilled workers, smart businesses and a government that is committed to working in partnership to create jobs.”

Wow 8 billion Federal Government tax payer dollars sure “buys” a lot of jobs! Who says governments are not in the business of creating jobs?

Interesting how a few choice comments made by Mr. Dix can ignite an inferno of opinions, but it makes for some interesting reading, once the personal atacks are sifted out. Carry on.
metalman.

Mr. Dix is in the comfortable position of being able to criticise without having to offer any solutions.

Now that would be like a majority of your comments on this site JB ;-)

As far as I know EI Employment Insurance is paid for by the Employer and by the Employee.

If there happens to be a shortfall the Government would step in to make up the difference, however that hasn’t happened for some time.

In fact a few years back when Mr Dithers (Paul Martin)was finance Minister the Government stole $40 Billion out of the EI fund and transferred it to general revenues. This helped the Government balance its books.

The Supreme Court found the Government Guilty of taking the money, however because they could just pass legislation legalizing the **take** no action was taken.

My point? Government do not help people through the EI system. This is an employee/employer program.

“Now that would be like a majority of your comments on this site JB ;-)”

Pfft. You say that like you do! ;-)

Anyway, I didn’t run for Premier. It sounds like Mr. Dix has about as much substance now as he had during the election campaign.

People #1 is the new mattyc or the old one with a new name. Can’t be getting much studying done blogging and drinking wine!

Adrian will step down day and everyone will forget him name.
More sawmills will shutdown because there isn’t enough trees to keep them going. Forestry isn’t working, just take a drive out to Purden. You see a beat up old sign there stating “planted in 1972”. Those trees should be almost ready 41 years later! Well they aren’t and that forest is a mess because no one looked after it!

Wasn’t it the NDP that bought the Skeena pulp mill? How did that work out?
It is called private business, can’t do much about it other than review the paperwork and see if what they are proposing is up to snuff.

@ NoWay; You point out our province’s glaring silviculture problem, by the way, it’s a Lib-Con problem that has been around for about 13 years.

“John Betts has done his share of pounding down trees as a planter and he can now see a lot more a lot more “schnarb” than “cream” on the province’s reforestation landscape. Given the prices now offered contractors to regenerate logged areas, treeplanting is nowhere near as profitable as it once was and until those prices rise, planting companies are in dogfight for survival.

“The industry has a tendency to undervalue itself and one of the trends that’s distressing to the sector is the average wage rate per tree, with inflation, is 30 per cent less than what it was 10 years ago,” said Betts, executive director of the Western Silvicultural Contractors Association (WSCA).

“Our workers are working at rates we were paying back in 2000 or earlier and we know what the costs of inflation have been. That makes it difficult for contractors to compete in the market. It’s to the advantage of licensees to keep prices as low as they can and the problem we’re all going to face now that is with pressure to keep costs down, the industry works literally on the backs of the employees. We haven’t been keeping up with the wages they need to earn and deserve, given how hard they work.”

http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/article/20121009/PRINCEGEORGE0111/310099992/-1/princegeorge/silviculture-troubled-but-hope-on-the-horizon-for-contractors

Noway wasn’t talking about the tree planting in 1972 being bad, just the brushing and intensive silviculture side of things.

Question is, is it just the VQO along the road or all the way in the bush, has a regen survey been done? Once the spruce and pine outpace the other regen no further intensive silviculture is planned, rest is to mother nature. Purden area was part of the spruce beetle invasion that the Social Credit Party of the time logged.

As for tree planting, wage rate per tree is mostly dictated by the licensee – what they think you should make as a contractor, if you don’t believe that then sit on the other side of the table from the Canfor rep when your contract is due for signing. When contractors are willing to plant for 1 cent and less profit margin and pay their employees less than we got in the 80s for the same tree – that is part of the problem and if you see Betts he will tell you that personally.

People#1; “”Today, British Columbia received a big boost to our economy thanks to the decision by the National Shipbuilding Procurement Program to award an eight year, $8 billion contract to build the next generation of non-combat vessels for the Royal Canadian Navy and the Canadian Coast Guard. We call our jobs plan “Canada Starts Here” and this shows why. It starts with skilled workers, smart businesses and a government that is committed to working in partnership to create jobs.”

Wow 8 billion Federal Government tax payer dollars sure “buys” a lot of jobs! Who says governments are not in the business of creating jobs?”
I don’t know where to begin on this post & others you have made on job creation. Would you prefer that the government contract out these jobs to a foreign country? As a dyed in the wool leftist you should be pleased as punch that there are gov’t jobs such as Coast Guard & Armed Forces. They are quite necessary. As for the dilemma in the forest industry I whole heartedly agree with some of the other posters, this was coming for a long time. When I worked in the forest industry over 10 years ago, we were warned of this. Part of the problem is that most workers adopt the false belief/hope that “it won’t happen to me”. When it does they are shocked, outraged or whatever emotion they feel. A person who works in ANY industry that could be negatively affected by market forces, supply issues etc. has a responsibility to keep informed of the comings & goings in their scope of employment. If it doesn’t look good, get out. In this particular case this was a long time coming, to state otherwise would reveal a massive ignorance to the situation.

detoe43; I was debating with Hart Guy, he thinks governments should not, and do not, play a role in job creation. I was saying they should and do.

Read his comments to put mine into context.