So, three big wild fish are going to be held captive in this small tank for how long, just so people can see what they look like?

Allowing people to see fish up close is wonderful. I don’t think they have thought this through very far however.

Sturgeons ranging from 7–12 feet (84 ” – 144 “) (2-3½ m) in length are common, and some species grow up to 18 feet (216 “) (5.5 m).

So 92 – 84 = 8 inches of wiggle room

The sturgeon they plan to put in this tank are hardly going to have room to sit still , let alone move about.

If the sturgeon are babies they might be able to be comfortable for a little while, but then what? They sit and be cramped up… Sounds a little cruel to me even if they are only fish…

where is the SPCA on this? Have they even given it any thought or are they hiding?

When it eventually floats to the top of the tank after a while, I sure hope the toilet at the museum will suffice in disposing of the poor thing. Any more than two flushes would be silly.

This new tank will be wonderful for Exploration Place (shame on you 250news for calling it the Museum)

Sturgeon can get to 12 feet long, but the ones in these tanks are far from that. They won’t be that big for another 70 years.

When Vancouver had the Killer Whales in the Aquarium, people from all over came and learned about them.

Killer whales became so ingrained on our psyche that they now adorn the jersey of the local sports team.

This is what having something usually unobtainable and invisible close at hand does.

Maybe if this had been done for the sturgeon 50 years ago they wouldn’t be on the endangered list today?

It is a strange world, isn’t it? We do so much to some animals just so that we – primarily our children – learn about the animal world.

In the case of aquatic animals we have whales in a tank, porpoises in a tank, dolphins in a tank, seals in a tank, sturgeons in a tank, coi in a tank, etc. etc.

I am not sure how long we will continue to perpetuate this. What are we really telling our children?

Maybe they should go out with their parents and catch some sturgeon to see what they look like.

And, yes, I agree. Where are the SPCAs and Humane Societies in all this? Do they actually have standards for aquatic animals?

Since the museum has access to such information, perhaps they can educate us all what standards there are for keeping such animals, if any, and whose standards they are.

Shame on you Nimrod for trying to sanitize the whole thing by calling it Exploration Place.

The Government of Canada virtual museum web site calls it “The Exploration Place at the Fraser-Fort George Regional Museum”

http://www.museevirtuel-virtualmuseum.ca/Search.do?mu=on&R=NGUIDE_ACDU&lang=en

A rose by any other name is still a rose.

Just as a museum by any other name is still a museum.

BTW, the facilities own site has a logo with the following words:

The Exploration Place in large letters and underneath in small letters, Museum and Science Centre.

If you are going to post something, Nimrod, at least try to be a bit more accurate.

Hopefully you do not work at the museum.

Sloppy!!!

http://www.theexplorationplace.com/uploads/theex/images/logo_TEP.png

If fish could scream, I’m sure some group would try to ban fishing. The way of the world, I guess.

Harbinger, the reality still is that we are the so-called dominant species. We are predators just like many other animals and organisms below us.

Typically we kill to eat, whether it is in the wild or with animals domesticated for the purpose. There is no sign that that will change, if ever.

However, taking “trophies” alive for the purpose of displaying them alive or dead is another matter altogether, in my mind.

I can learn much more about animals such as cheetahs from videos than going to see them in a zoo.

“Killer whales became so ingrained on our psyche” that they are no longer kept in tanks in Vancouver.

And you are telling me that the others had to suffer so that they would be displayed on team jerseys, sort of like the redskins?

At a fish hatchery (trout, salmon, sturgeon, etc) the fish are in a tank too! Then they are released into lakes and rivers.

I seem to remember that there is a sturgeon hatchery here so what’s the difference of raising them in tank there and taking a few of them to display them in the tank at the Exploration Place for visitors to observe?

As long as they are eventually released and replaced I don’t see a problem.

The care and concern we for fish, animals etc. is moving ,but what about our children, we abort with seemingly very little concern?

The care and concern we have for fish, animals etc. is moving ,but what about our children, we abort with seemingly very little concern?

(Correction)

Norm, I will neither agree or disagree with you, but sorry I think that is for another post somewhere else….

It is great to see all the interest in our Sturgeon here this morning! I thought I’d weigh in with a little information on our particular fish and on The Exploration Place in general.

The Exploration Place Museum + Science Centre is the name we have been doing business under since 2001. We are a registered charity and non profit society governed by The Fraser-Fort George Museum Society and definitely ARE a collecting institution most commonly referred to as a Museum (we have been since 1958 actually).

So let’s talk fish… I’m no expert but I’ll share what I know if you’re interested.

Our sturgeon are very early on in their life cycle. Males don’t reach sexual maturity until 20-25 yrs old and females not until 40 or so. These fish were acquired several years ago (putting their current age around 8) from the hatchery in Vanderhoof. They were never wild fish and were never intended for wild release. They were hatchery fish retained as potential breeding stock. The Nechako White Sturgeon are particularly slow growing and are still many years away from out-growing their new tank. When the day does come that they are not comfortable in this tank we will work with the hatchery to determine what the next stage in their life will bring.

Our new tank was designed for two key reasons:
1. To create a better living environment for the fish (no corners, better current, more modern mechanicals) and
2. To create a more engaging exhibit that will raise public awareness and involvement in the plight of these endangered fish.

http://www.nechakowhitesturgeon.org/index.php

The Nechako White Sturgeon Recovery Initiative is currently trying to intervene in the watershed, helping to repopulate the river with what seems to be an entirely missing generation of Sturgeon. With some 100,000 visitors a year at the Museum, we are an important site for public education on this issue.

As to the care of our animal ambassadors of all types, I can only assure you that we take their well-being seriously. Great care is taken in selecting the animals that will live in our galleries. We take into account the traits of their species and the inclinations of the individual animals relative to the role they will be asked to play. These animals are an important part of the Museum Team and are afforded every consideration as such.

Thank you to all of you for your discussion on here this morning! This is exactly the kind of dialogue we aim to inspire through the work we do.

Tracy Calogheros – CEO
The Exploration Place
Museum + Science Centre
http://www.theexplorationplace.com

Norm

What about the chickens we abort when we remove the eggs and eat them? Or the fish roe?

We could go on and on. How far would you like to take it?

If you want to we could take it to vegetables as well. Beans? Sunflower seed? Nuts?

I know you may not like to go there because it is vegetable instead of animal and instead of human.

So, how about following bcracer’s suggestion, human abortion is a topic for a different forum ….. I notice we have sports, food, etc …. but no religious forum ….

Thanks for the info Tracy. Good information and I look forward to visiting. Although there is concern regarding animals in captivity; I think it is wonderful to raise the awareness of ourselves and our children. I think when evaluating the morals of keeping animals in captivity one has to consider the level of intellect of the animal and keeping the animals health above all other priorities.

“These fish were acquired several years ago (putting their current age around 8) from the hatchery in Vanderhoof.”

There you go!

Gus, please! Anything but the forum you are suggesting!

BTW, since the subject of animal cruelty was brought up, chicken are still raised in wire cages, two to a cage with barely enough room for a chicken to turn around! They stand all their short lives on wire mesh, never get to see the sun or scratch in the sand!

Enjoy your chicken nuggets, everybody!

Sounds like we’re bordering on the subject of sustainable food sources. Well how about this? Just arrived home from a food Forum if you will, and at a lecture, a famous Chef announced that parents who feed their children junk food and prepared boxed meals, etc. are lacking in parental skills and is a form of child abuse. And it is rampent across the country spurred on by the ads by the fast food industry. He pulled no punches on this topic. Its his soap-box topic and more will be coming, I’m sure.

Define junk food.

Junk food is changing.

There is no reason that junk food has to remain that way. Fast food and junk food do not have to be synonymous.

Just remember, when it comes to food, the northern regions traditionally relied more on animals for food than plants.

All those animals were, btw, free range …. :-)

“lacking in parental skills and is a form of child abuse”

It could be argued that such a form of child abuse has been forced on us for a variety of reasons …

1. a single income is no longer sustainable for most couples to raise children with, thus one of the spouses is unable to sty at home to raise a child which goes far beyond the preparation of meals. The abuse is wide spread.

2. advertising, paid by us indirectly through higher product costs, is promoting a lifestyle beyond the reach of many people, thus promoting two income families to keep on buying the biggest and best tablets, eye-phones, flat screen tvs, cars, houses, vacations … the list goes on.

3. The dr. Phils and Oprahs of this world are promoting lifestyles which are often not achievable because it is beyond the comprehension of the average person.

and on and on …..

So, before a chef calls something abuse, understand that saying that is a form of bullying and is, itself, abuse.

It is simply an opinion, and some people are starting to realize that it is just that.

A Chef is a long way away from a psychologist or sociologist.

Say all you naysayers everbeen to the exploration place? Want them to release their insects? Lets get all the fish removed from the hatchery also. I am sure they are held against there will. Maybe one of you are a fish wisperer and get the fish thoughts?

As for zoos do anyone of you have any idea the research that takes place in modern zoos? A lot of animals owe their existence to this reasearch.

Way to go Tracy and I am sure the majority will find the display interesting and educational.

I only eat “free range’ fish.

“As for zoos do anyone of you have any idea the research that takes place in modern zoos? A lot of animals owe their existence to this reasearch.”

Yoohoo … I do …. :-)

Here is an example of zoo research from Twycross Zoo which is THE world primate centre …….

According to their web page, they have particular interest in the following areas:

1. Enclosure usage and activity budgets.
2. Behaviour and social interactions.
3. Enrichment.
4. Communication and vocalisations.
5. Dietary analysis

Obviously #1 has everything to do with animals which are being kept, not animals that are in their natural habitat.

The same with #3 … they get enough enrichment in the wild

#2 Behaviour and social interaction is also obviously in captivity, not in the wild. Whether there is any relationship between the two would have to involve a comparative analysis.

#4 is associated and similar to #2

#5 dietary analysis … also similar to the captivity diet and the diet in the wild.

So, in the final analysis, the primary purpose of the research seems to be to give an animal a similar social, nutritional, behavioural, etc. experience in captivity as they have in the wild. For that one needs to have done the research in the wild.

Virtually the total research of importance to this zoo appears to be to make sure the wild conditions can be replicated at the zoo while keeping the security of the compound and having good knowledge of the costs involved.

Doing away with the notion that animals need to be in captivity, would do away with such useless research ….

Huh so there is no research in zoos that benifit animals in the wild. Gus you seem to be cherry picking your Google results to fit a bias.