wow the large opposition is a bit of a surprise but I guess the way mayor and council have been beating them up in public backfired and got the staff fired up.

The survey was a bit tacky and clearly political. If mayor and council wanted that kind of info they should have had the guts to also ask us if we were in favor of council giving themselves a 30% increase in pay or what we thought about thousands being spent on political junkets to china.

When the expected answer is obvious, the motives behind asking the question are just as obvious. um, I wonder if council`s new code of conduct uses the word respect anywhere.

Aside from the total mistrust and total lack of respect, it doesn`t seem like the two sides are very far apart on the contract terms so they should bring back the mediator, agree to stop the attempts to belittle each other through the media and roll up their sleeves and bargain in good faith.

So let me see, the mayor hires a personal assistant, council votes themselves in a raise, they are raising all of our taxes and user fees, travel to china, can afford the winter games… But have no money to pay the city workers to even cover the cost of living the mayor and council have imposed on us..

Classic move..

‘Angry’ I don’t think they are angry, just disillusioned with the lack of respect being shown to them.

This says it all about this brain dead administration. How does that store on fourth stay in business?

I can’t stand the current mayor and council but I also have no respect for city workers either. They are all way over paid in my opinion.

Typical right leaning government; has no respect for people, but loves and respects money!

Just to get it straight, the last Council voted this Council a raise, but not a raise for the Mayor. That was a raise after not having one for four or five years. The method is to look at the average of what other Councillors in similar sized cities get.

So, that was a raise after 0,0,0,0

Wanna compare apples to apples?

Union members got 3,3,3,3,3 …… NOT 0,0,0,0,0.

If they had, they should have gotten a “catch up” increase. But that was not the case.

So here the City was using the same approach as last time, extend the contract period instead of giving 3,3,4 at the last negotiation.

So, how is this union doing compared to others in the province if taken over a 5 year actual plus 4 year offered agreement?

In other words, what are some of the standard pay rates and what does the cumulative pay raise over 9 years look like with respect to PG?

I asked that question before on here, but no one wishes to enlighten those of us who care about seeing some real factual information that has any relevance.

I am sure if that would show up that PG unions had done worse than others, someone would have come out and posted the hard luck story.

BUT no, that obviously was not the case. PG union are doing better, as are PG City senior and mid level administrators.

With respect to negotiations, I think they need to find a new layer to help them and they need someone in communications that has had some sensitivity training and is strong enough to have a say at the senior administrator table of incompetents.

Angry may be the word, but I think the City’s unionized workforce just demonstrated how disgusted they are with the malicious and disrespectful actions of their employer. Last week’s schoolyard bully tactics that were obviously sanctioned by the new She-riff in town were disgraceful and embarrassing to the City as a whole. Councillors who have experienced calloused hands from hard work, or work with and support those who are not in the over 100K per year crowd must be embarrassed to be affiliated with this group.
We have some excellent Councillors who truly feel they can build a better City, and remain committed to doing so. I share their passion, and routinely see their obvious frustration. Some of them must be thinking that they missed something in the presentation a couple weeks ago, and a code of “misconduct” was actually adopted by Council and actioned by Administration.

“We have some excellent Councillors” … And who are they, pray tell?

Other than Skakun, who seems to be sitting it out to see everyone else self-destruct, there is little reaction from Councillors from the dictatorial “leadership” of Green.

What there is, are simple politically correct attempts at suggesting some alternate approach, but none amount to much. There have been a couple of recent after the fact reactions which express an “I did not realize this is how we voted on this matter or this is what the outcome would be” …. “why are the people angry at what we decided?” … “can we go back and undo our decision”.

It appears to me that Councillors are competent enough to debate in a meaningful and strong fashion. This is serious business folks, and I am very disillusioned at the majority of people who sit on Council.

Krause is being his normal self, Stolz is what he has always been, and Koehler is as expected. The others are just not coming up to the level of a strong, individual Councillor that brings reasonable second thought to the table and is able to ask some serious questions of staff sitting around the table watching the charade.

Hall is the only one who shows signs of some level of competence, but he is not forward enough. He needs to take stronger positions and just gamble that he is doing the right thing. Playing it safe will not get him the Mayor’s seat if he wants it.

He may actually not this time around.

hat sentence should read … “It appears to me that Councillors are NOT competent enough to debate in a meaningful and strong fashion”

gus you are wrong on a couple of points. The last council recommended a pay increase with councilor stolze leading the charge but the current council voted unanimously to make it happen. One the first decisions this council made was to approve the 30% raise which also increased the mayors compensation by increasing her benefits. That`s why the mayor`s compensation has jumped by about 20% since she took office.

Look up the minutes of the Regular Meeting of Council dated May 30, 2011 presided over by His Worship Mayor Dan Rogers.

The report dated May 20, 2011, from the Council Remuneration Advisory Committee, regarding Council Remuneration Review was presented and recorded as such on page 15 onward.

It was Moved by Councillor Stolz, seconded by Councillor Krause, that the Committee report, BE RECEIVED.
That was carried unanimously.

Then came the following lengthy motion which captured the recommendations of the report:

Moved by Councillor Stolz, seconded by Councillor Krause, that:

1. 2012 Mayor remuneration remain at the 2011 rate;

2. effective January 1, 2012, each Councillor’s remuneration be set at 1/3 of Mayor remuneration;

3. beginning in 2012 and on each year thereafter, an annual adjustment be applied to Mayor and Councillor remuneration, effective January 1 of that year, which is the lesser of:
a) the annual percent wage increase applied to City of Prince George exempt staff salaries; OR
b) the average of the wage adjustment for the fourth quarter of the previous year, and the wage adjustment for the first, second and third year quarter of the current year for the public administration industry as published by Human Resources and Skills Development Canada as the Average Annual Percentage Wage Adjustments by Quarter;

4. the Mayor receive the same benefit plan coverage as City of Prince George exempt staff;

5. the existing benefit plan coverage for Councillors be continued unchanged;

6. the existing practice for Acting Mayor pay be continued unchanged;

7. the existing policy regarding vehicle allowance for Councillors be continued unchanged;

8. Mayor and each Councillor be provided, as soon as practical after election, their choice of either:
a) a laptop computer, including technical support provided by the City of Prince George, to be used by the Council member for their current term of office; OR
b) a technology allowance equal to the budget allocated by the City of Prince George for a laptop computer, not including technical support provided by the City of Prince George; and

9. that a review of Mayor and Councillor remuneration be conducted byan advisory committee comprised of members of the public by the 2 nd quarter of the last year of each Council’s term.

The motion was carried with Councillor Skakun recorded opposed.

So, as I stated, the previous Council approved the recommendations of the Committee and made a detailed motion to reflect that recommendation.

What you are referring to, psst, is the meeting of the new Council in the spring of 2012 when the bylaw was finally drawn up and presented to Council based on the motion made in May of 2011.

Sort of taking their sweet time of about a year to create the bylaw ……. Remember, the poor people in administration are sooooooo busy…. ;-)

So, keep up the good work psst. It will only take a few more years before you start to get the hang of Council procedures. LOL

BTW, committees recommend, and Stolz was not part of the committee. It was led by Dave Yarmish.

Council does not recommend. Council enacts.

Come to think of it, I was very generous to you in the above note, psst.

You really do have a lot to learn about procedure. Can I pull out my favourite phrase? You are what is known as functionally illiterate when it comes to Council.

So, now explain what you mean about the mayor’s compensation increase. The motion is written above. Please tell me where there has been an increase in compensation and benefits?

I want you to understand that these are benefits and compensation as recognized by Revenue Canada, not you own interpretation. Just a precautionary note for your consideration before you answer that.

Well, I suppose like the mayor said on the telly today, council will have to make a decision and the taxpayers will have to ante up

This is my view from the peanut gallery

The city has drawn a line in the sand and said no wage increases in the first two years, union insists on an increase but are unwilling to help fund it from other parts of the contract. Mediator saw how entrenched the sides were and booked out.

As far as the city is concerned other than a few frilly things around the edge and a few signatures the employees are working under the terms of a new contract so no need to lock them out unless they do something stupid like a work slowdown- yea yea I know how could you tell;)

The union is having a hard time finding any solid ground to stand on in order to justify a raise as gus has pointed out so is pointing at things that have no bearing on contract talks. Even if the city did have two shiny nickles to rub together does not mean that they automatically go to the union.

So the irresistible force of “more more” has met the immovable object of “0-0” I guess the ball is in cupe’s court but I hope the does not bend other than 0-1-1-2 or even 1-1-1-1.

Note to city(please skip over cupe) Somewhere in the back of my head but don’t feel like looking it up to confirm might want to drag out essential service level negotiations till Jan 2. I think they would get paid for missed stats on return to work even if they were on strike. After Jan 2nd would have a couple of months of pretty much clear sailing and maybe more depending when Jesus dies next year.

One other note is the increase to the city manager’s budget for the communications department, IMO it has been poorly researched and reported in the media. Near as I can tell Chris Bone and Mike Davis did not volunteer their time so it is an accounting function of moving beans from what ever pot they were paid from to the one marked city manager. Only new money added is relevant not that which was merely re allocated.

You did mention the other day gus that working on website would be part of their duties….sure hope the plan is not to focus on the social media end or we will have the 21st century version of the town crier…a 90k town tweeter;)

….make that… I hope the city does not bend.

Poor day for skiing so back to bed:P

Sorry, but I agree with the union and I come from a strong management background. When you are waiting for a strike vote you do not state that your department is going to have a 60% increase and council votes it in with no debate. That is waving a red flag at a bull. I think the City manager & Mayor wants the strike and they have done all the can to get it. By the way I do think the wages in the City are too high starting with the Mayor & council, City manager and down.

But it comes down to tatics and if you have repect you can get a better work force and better outcome in negotiations.
In the 70’s PG Pulp had walk outs and always voted for striking and Northwood didn’t, the different was the respect that Northwood management had for the union workers. When Northwood had a expensive staff party it was for the whole mill not just management with everyone in on the planning. Ask the BC Rail workers how bad the relationship with management and union is since CN Rail took over.

Other thread closed so have to answer your error here gus

Posted by: gus on November 29 2013 11:25 PM
“The only person that would use the first calculation is one who does not know simple financial math.
An item in a store was $10. It is now $15.
What is the percentage increase? 5/10 = 50%.
Simple, there is only one (sic) right answer, not two.”

That IS the first calculation, divided by the original amount or
15 – 10 = 5 / 10 = .50 or 50%
The second calculation is divided by the new total which the answer is not 2 but rather
15 – 10 = 5 / 15 = .3333 or 33.33%

In this case the store would say the item increased 33% while you would say the item went up 50% in price as the consumer. The store would not say it went up 2…?

Which leans back to this topic as the city says the city manager’s budget only increased 30% while we know the increase was actually 42% of the 2012 figure. And while most of us (and CUPE and Ben) say management salaries went up 61% they say ‘no no’ they only went up 38% of the total

Posted by: People#1 on November 29 2013 11:08 PM
Typical right leaning government; has no respect for people, but loves and respects money!

—————————

Sounds like the union!

Time to do your homework slinky;)

http://www.ehow.com/how_5092448_calculate-percentage.html

http://www.ehow.com/how_8089325_calculate-percentage-number.html

Your test questions are:

1. What percentage of total membership even bothered to cast a vote?

2.What percentage of total membership voted to reject offer?

Look in the back for correct answers:)

======================================================

If they do go out will Skakun and Everitt cross a picket line to attend a council meeting and what will happen if they choose not to cross?

The appalling behavior continues from management at city hall. There needs to be accountability.
Thanks to Brian Skakun for bringing these poor management practices forward.

There is a constant flow of poor decisions since Mayor Green took Office. Now they want to hire spin doctors to brain wash the tax payers. If they took all these terrible ideas, Core review, civic plaza upgrade, trips to china, high priced lawyers to bargain against the union and put this money toward where it is needed the union would get its raise, taxes would be lower and most of all more work would get done

Shame on you management, time to retire some of these dinosaurs.

Thanks again Brian Skakun for having morals and ethics. I know who to vote for in the next election

OOOOH, they will get the evil eye from the Queen.

Sparrow touched on a question that I’m curious about. Where does Councillor Everitt stand on all of this? Same with Skakun?

did I touch a nerve gus? I am not sure why you felt it necessary for the personal attack but perhaps the strength of your argument in responding was weak and therefore you starting calling me names. That isn’t something that I usually see from you. If you are having a bad day I hope it improves.

As for your response, I recommend you re-read point 4 of the minutes you cut and paste. The mayor now gets the same benefit package that exempt staff get which resulted in more hard earned tax dollars coming out of our pockets to pay for those benefits.

and while you are correct that it was the council before this one that recommended the raise, btw based on a review by a committee that stolze pushed to create, as you have noted it was this council that implemented that raise. That means this council, the one that now says the sky is falling, had the choice to say no, but instead took the easy way, voted yes and implemented their increase while at the same time telling all who would listen that the vault is empty. In other words, do as I say not as I do.

I may not understand the processes and politics at city hall like you do gus but I can recognize hypocrisy and disrespect when I see it.

Posted by: lonesome sparrow on November 30 2013 9:30 AM
Time to do your homework slinky;)

Your links are not even close to percentage increase or percentage of total. Using your links to find out the increase from 10 to 15 would be 10/15 or 66% which is not what we are looking for.

Look at it another way you have a jerry can that is 15 liters total but has 10 liters in it, what percentage do you need to increase to fill the can? 50% right? 5 liters is half of 10.
But what percentage of the filled 15 liter can is the 5 liters you have to increase in order to fill it? 33.33% or 5 liters is only a third of a 15 liter can.

It is all in how you look at the ‘can’ in this case. Both answers are correct depending how it is phrased, but one looks worse than the other depending on the message you want to convey

City spending has gone up 21% in the last ten years, despite no increase in population. The status quo is not acceptable. 0,0, and 2 is more than fair.

If CUPE wants 2,2, and 2, then they should have to cut staff appropriately to pay for it.

Isn’t it funny how 0 , 0 and 2 wage freezes are always OK when it’s not your standard of living going down the drain??

Whose standard of living, Jim? The taxpayer who ultimately has to foot the bill for CUPE wage and benefit increases?

So Jim13135, why don’t we just shut up and give them 3, 3, 3, 3 and 3 again for the next 5 years, just we did for the last 5 years!

Heck, I sure wouldn’t mind big tax increases to pay for this! After all, who gives a damn about my standard of living, or the standard of living of those on fixed incomes or those who make far less than our City Workers, both unionize and exempt staff!!

Bottom line is 0,0 and 2 is more than fair when you consider that in the past 5 years, our City Workers salaries GREW 3.0% per year while the Bank of Canada Inflation Rate for that period of time averaged only 1.44%.

In case you missed that, our unionized Municipal workers enjoyed wage increases that were more than double the average inflation rate over the past 5 years. More than double!!

It’s time for a wage freeze for all Federal, Provincial and Municipal Public Sector workers, both unionized and exempt!

Enough is enough! O,0 and 2! Let them go on strike!!

Whaaaaaaa, whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, whaaaaaaaaaaaa!

If they do go on strike I hope they shut this city down and not do the little baby walk outs that seem to be the way of things these days.

Time to put your foot down CUPE!