When I take my son to swimming lessons at Four Seasons the pool is packed to capacity. It is a success in the community and has been for years. Why would we even consider risking something like this in the community to a ‘third party operator’?

Both pools in PG are clearly well used and have actual utility to the residents and potential visitors to this city. If anything PG could probably use a third pool up in the Hart area of town as well.

Is that a misprint up to $300 thousand dollars to do a study. Who are we hiring for that type of money, and why waste it.

Another waste! It does not need to be studied. It already works for Prince George. All facilities need upgrades as they age. Put the money into upgrades. Third party operators don’t work.

If it was a good investment for the private sector they would have already built a pool. But they only take them over when cities subsidize. Then give them back when they are worn out.

Here is a novel idea for a city who is broke and it’s council thinks the only way to raise money is by taxing the crap out of it’s tax payers; instead of starting new unneeded projects… TAKE CARE OF OUR CURRENT INFRASTRUCTURE!

There must some maintenance that could be done for $300k not a study. What?? Good thing we have the core review. Not!! Why do we have City council and managers if all we do is study everything to figure out what to do. How much money has been spent on studies and reports the last 5 years?

I wonder whose friends are going to be getting that $300k handout. Beth James’? Shari Green’s?

L & M engineering, no doubt.

$300 thousand dollars? What is the cost to run it each year? Has to be a misprint or ?

I’d like to see the receipts for that three hunnert thousand dollars. Itemized too, please. What a friggin’ scam these studies are.

Both the Aquatic Centre and Four Seasons Pools have a manager and have maintenance personnel dedicating thousands of hours operating and maintaining those facilities.

Can’t this people, who obviously know the most about the two facilities, be consulted with the $300K going directly towards their recommendations on pool infrastructure upgrades, redesign and replacements?

This city fights with it’s workers more than it listens to them!

I sure hope the entire story is a misprint, or an early April Fools joke.

What is a council for?

To discuss ideas, problems, potential problems, consider information from several sources, make decisions on how best to develop and allocate a budget?

I suppose that is what this particular band of councillors does every Mondasy evening, but there is one final component that appears to be missing;

MAKE THE DECISIONS, not toss the matter around as if it is a hot potato, then approve a ridiculous sum of money just to “STUDY” the idea.

I honestly don’t understand how some of these people on council can run their own business, their actions baffle me.

metalman.

$300 thousand, sure, okay, as long as it comes out of the mayor’s and council’s pockets alone. Not MY money though. Hire Gus, he could probably have an answer for you in about five minutes! Why is it that he can come up with real research and the city staff can’t?
That’s all you need, a little research into how many people use it and what it costs to keep it going, the number of people employed by it and then figure in the activity and social values it has for this community.
Maybe we should hire a consultant to see if the people of this city can afford this current council and administration. I’ll bet I know the answer to that one already!

i agree with all these comments. why is an outsider needed to prepare this report? are there not qualified people within leisure services or other city departments that can take care of this ‘study’? if not, why not?

4 seasons is a busy pool, well used by many prince george residents and a lot of people that might not have the means or ability to make it all the way over to the aquatic centre. there are costs associated with this type of facility and it was never intended to be a money maker. clearly the city has done an awful job maintaining the facility, as any one that regularly uses the pool would see. take one look at the moldy, rotten ceiling tiles and that is obvious. want to make some extra money? put the concession back in there instead of vending machines. when I was a kid, the upper level was full of tables and it was hard to find a seat because of people buying hotdogs, nachos, and slushes after a swim. maybe it’s not politically correct to sell such food anymore…

I can take my two small kids with a locker rental to the pool for about 11 bucks. it’s a great way to spend an afternoon, provides physical activity for the kids and provides a sense of community for people in prince george of all religions and ethnicities. if a private operator takes over, and I can’t imagine any business owner wanting to take over that aged building, the price will increase, many will be priced out, the new owners will have fewer customers, and it will close.

Here’s what I see happening. this ‘study’ will come back to council recommending the city unload the pool. of course, no one will want it in its current condition. Millions will be allotted to bring it up to a standard it should have been at years ago. the city won’t find anyone willing to take the risk, so will have to drop the price of the building and provide subsidies to a private operator. even with the assistance of the city, the pool will lose business due to increased rates, and close within a year. the city will claim it costs too much to reopen the pool, and the building will rot in the ground.

this is the beginning of the end for the Four Seasons Pool.

The four seasons pool needs to be looked at from the building point of view as well as the special facilities it houses.

The two work in tandem since it is a high humidity environment that requires considerable maintenance for both. Think mildew, as just one example.

$300thousand seems a high amount for such a report about the economical life of that building. I would think that a qualified designer of such facilities would be able to do a technical audit for $100thousand and throw in $50thousand for the aquatic centre at the same time.

BTW, what are some of the indicators at the aquatic centre that would point to a requirement for such an assessment at this time?

I had someone come to town who looked at downtown with a critical eye from the point of view of infrastructure.

His first comment when he saw the four seasons pool was ” what is that building? It looks rather dated and has seen better days. When will that be torn down?”

No money for workers but $300k for a study.

Heyyy come on guys.. T’is the season.. Let the Mayor spread some good cheer, even if it’s three hundred grand.. I’m sure there’s a lot of unemployed people out there that could study the swimming centres we have in town.. :)

OMG, seriously another study. Now I’m not a union supporter but I can’t imagine how they feel with stupid amounts of money being thrown on stupid studies.

Do we not have a vote on this?

Gus perhaps he was looking at City Hall. It was built before the pool (1st 3 stories) City Hall should be due for a rebuild, because although there is no high humidity, there is certainly a lot of hot air floating around.

CN Centre on first Avenue was built in 1971, and was later purchased by the City even though at the time of purchase if was older that the old Police Station.

If you want to get rid of a building the first thing you do is to start finding things wrong with it, then throw out a huge maintenance and restructure cost, and *walla* you have made a case for tearing it down. Much like they did with the Police Station, and what they are presently doing with the Playhouse Theatre.

There seems to be no limit as to what these people at the City will do, to further their own plans, as opposed to a comprehensive plan for the City as a whole.

They really need to take a minimum three year hiatus from doing anything (on full pay). At least if they stay home for three years we will be able to get back on track.

I know what the new hotel will be used for, housing all the people doing studies.

What is the motivation for looking into third party management?

despite the lack of trust that is growing around city hall these days, a quick review with staff would be a good thing as it might identify some areas where it can be upgraded. As an example, I take my kids swimming but between the two pools neither has really good water slide.

The one at four seasons is pretty reasonable but doesn’t run all the time. I beat if they put a couple more slides in that would enhance the downtown pool while keeping the aquatic center as the competition pool along with the wave tank.

I also seem to recall a promise that the city was going to build a pool in College Heights? What ever happened to that promise. It would be a heck of a lot closer for me than driving all the way to the aquatic center or downtown.

Think of it this way. Mitch2. If they find that the net present value of keeping the existing downtown pool for another 20 to 30 years is more expensive than tearing it down and using it as a parking lot until they can figure out what they can do with it and building a new pool in CH, as promised, you and many other pool users will be overjoyed.

I have a great deal of experience with pools so let me chime in…
Four Seasons has more than served it’s purpose, has exceeded its lifecycle and is in desperate need of upgrading or replacement. These are facts no one can deny.
What most people are clueless to is that it’s not as simple as you might think to “fix” Four Seasons. By now all of the concrete in the various tanks will have begun to fail, most of the mechanical systems will be shot, and all of the underground piping will require complete replacement. The chlorine particles in the air will has severely compromised anything made of metal (Roof trusses, door frames, t-bar, etc..) and begun to rot anything with any organic material in it (stucco, wood, roof panels, etc..).
In short, it would be just as cost effective to completely replace it rather than try to fix it. By replacing it everything is new, the life expectancy starts over and you have a facility that includes the latest in standards and ammenities. By fixing it , unless you replace everything, you will be dumping money in continually as things fail. By replacing you also get a new and “exciting” product vs spending a ton of cash and essentially ending up afterwards with the same old pool.
So you’re faced with a decision to either replace it or close it. This begs the question as to whether one pool would then be enough. Everyone will have their own opinion on this according to whether they use the pool or not but the reality is that two pools are likely too many and one is probably not enough.
Not an easy decision and not a cheap one either way.

Thanks for the reality check, realitycheck.

Perhaps a bit overly pessimistic, but certainly points out some of the suspected problems in a specialty building like that.

Good post reality check.

In your opinion, how much of the current demand served by the Four Seasons could be picked up by the Aquatic Centre? Said another way, is the Aquatic Centre operating a full capacity of does it have some room to absorb some of the demand if the Four Seasons was no longer an option (despite the fact that some people my prefer it)?

Seems to me that the did a significant upgrade this pool in 2011. It will be interesting to see what the report recommends.

Some good points by realitycheck but of course you don’t what the actual physical condition of a structure is until you get in and look at the guts of the building. Usually publicly held buildings are kept in better shape than private ones as municipalities tend to have more money for proper maintenance.

While they are looking at four seasons, the city should also look at the coliseum and number one fire hall because I think both of them are even older than the four seasons pool, dating back to the 40’s or 50’s. um maybe they are all Heritage Buildings.

anyway, I thought the City already had engineers and building managers with expertise in examining the physical structure. The city’s website shows: Civic Facilities Construction and Maintenance, Greg Anderson, Manager

Huh, maybe KPMG would like another $300,000 of our hard earned tax dollars. Talk about the Queen of studies.

where do I send my resume?

…can’t accountants and controllers pull reports that detail usage, etc? Save the money.

billposer asked

What is the motivation for looking into third party management?
………………………………………

non-union labour – lifeguards and aquatic instructors are now ongoing career positions, not part-time jobs for high school and college students like it was thirty or forty years ago.