This will be tough to regulate. I wonder what kind of dispute resolution mechanisms they will have in place.

Great to see voters got the mandate they voted for in the last election… 10% decrease in all departments… turns into a 20% increase in the property tax bill lol.

Rent will go up. Maybe this tax will help to make new traditional rental units more viable? PG has very poor rental stock available, so anything that changes that would be good.

LOL,, wish I could, FORCE people to pay more in my store like that.

Wow – this city is getting out of control with it’s fees. So now it’s a “Service Fee”, and then they’ll find a way to increase the utilities – even though the “Service Fee” probably covers that – say another $200/yr (guestimate).
As it is now, that $400/yr adds an extra $33/month in additional fees that are going to be passed down to the tenants.
Basement suites were always a ‘cheaper’ alternative to an apartment, but I think that’s going to change very shortly.

Well if legit property owners have to pay the so should the rest! I agree that this will get passed down the tenant as fast as you can say rent hike!

The people who rent these so called secondary suites are the ones who will pay the additional costs, not the Landlords. The same thing applies to the Storm Water Tax. Any additional tax charged to business or landlords will be passed on to the consumer, or renter.

People in the lower income brackets cannot continue to pay all these extra charges.

As mentioned above the City is out of control with all these extra charges, which at the end of the day are nothing more than thinly disquised tax increases.

There are 229 staff at City Hall that get paid in excess of $75,000.00 per year, for a total cost of $21,405,198.24, or an average annual income of $ 93,472.48, 2012 figures.

We can safely assume that these people can pay any additional taxes without to much pain, however the same doesn’t apply to those on lower incomes. Median salary in Prince George according to IPG is approx. $40,000.00 per year.

All the increases have come in prior to the election year (2014) and we will now start to here all the **good news** up until election time.

I strongly urge some politicians at City Hall to start giving some serious consideration to a career change, as the gravy train at City Hall is coming into the station, and all passengers will have to get off.

Not sure of the legal implications on illegal suites, however legal suites have to meet certain requirements. Ie; height of windows, and fire escapes, or more than one way to get out of the suite.

I do not for a New York minute expect that the City would be so stupid, as to recognize a illegal suite, and then assess the owner charges for a license, and service for this suite.

Unless they were born yesterday, they should be able to determine that they would be complicate in the running of the illegal suite, and therefore could have their asses sued off if someone perished in a fire, or otherwise was injured.

I strongly recommend that they get a clear, concise, legal opinion before they go forward with this charade.

We need to determine the people responsible for bringing forward all these charges, like storm water, suites, elimination of the break for early payment of utilities, downtown off street parking, etc; etc;. Whoever these individual are, they need to be sent packing in the next election, as they have no concept of how these tax increases impact the average person.

First is see many people like myself getting notices because we have a basement which is fully finished . We have no suite in iur basement so we would take avantage of the free inspection . Nothing is free . This screams of a way to find more ways to tax the people of Prince George . What will they implement after inspecting our homes ? Another service fee like a small tax on the square footage of carpet in my basement ? Sounds dumb but this is also the same council who wants to tax us for rainwater run off . There is nothing this council will do that shocks me anymore . Time to recall these people . Waiting until the next election could (will) destroy this city . Get scary Shari out now !

That’s a really good point about the legal ramifications in recognizing an illegal suite. I hadn’t thought about that – definitely something the city better look very closely at.

I know when I was looking in the past for a place to live, the majority of basement suites in older houses had small windows in which there was no way I was climbing out of in case of fire – and I’m not a big person.

Anyone else think of Sara Palin when they think of Shari Green ?

Unlike Palin, Green can not see Russia from her back porch!

Palin is sexy. Green is not.

So if a family of say 4 is the norm then a family of say 6 had better watch out as they are putting extra strain on Shari’s infrastructure and will be next for extra taxe’s.

“Well if legit property owners have to pay the so should the rest! I agree that this will get passed down the tenant as fast as you can say rent hike” you can only legally increase rent 2% above inflation per year.

The logic is… “Secondary suites impose added burdens and costs on the City in relation to infrastructure and services.”

Many of us already have water meters and we all have the city garbage cans. So what added burden is a secondary suite? Slowing down urban sprawl? With my water meter I pay for my usage and similarly my sewage rate will also increase. Same with garbage, if it does not fit in my can I either get a bigger one with higher fees or pay to drive up to Foothills and pay their fee’s. Hydro and Fortis both bill based on usage. So what are the actual added costs of a secondary suite that I am not paying for? Increased usage of roads? If that is the case the city should require families to get a permit for hosting family events at their homes. Eg. Christmas dinner – $20/person.

I am still confused as to why I need to pay for a “business license” for rental properties when I already pay ~$800 more per year in property taxes without the home owners grant.

Rent increases are only limited if you have the same tenant in the unit. If that tenant moves out, you can charge as much as you want. Which is going to happen.
I can see some slumlords finding a way to evict their tenants, just to get someone else in to increase the rent substantially now due to the new fees.

Jonathan – it’s a flat rate for water and sewage, the city doesn’t charge for usage. Don’t start giving them anymore ideas…
Although, growing up without city services and having to conserve water, it wouldn’t be a half bad idea. I still cringe everytime I see someone watering down their driveway to get the dirt off instead of sweeping it. Or sprinklers kept on way longer than necessary.

Once again city council and mayor are a joke show. Add in more taxes and less services.

So we have a family of 6 living in a house, with no suite. Then we have a family of two who have a suite, occupied by two people.

So who uses more services.???

This whole idea is (like most PG City ideas) ill conceived, poorly thought out, and detrimental to the Citizens who pay the salaries for the incompetent staff/politicians who dream this stuff up.

What we asked for in the last election, and what we expected, was a decrease in the costs of running this City, and hold the line on tax and service increases.

We got the opposite. Go figure.

So if I own my own home and have an illegal suite where my out-of-town children or friends come and stay, whether they pay rent or not, I will now be charged for this? Normally there are only two people living in this house, so what are the extra costs and drain on city services? I have some neighbors who regularly have lots of guests parking overnight on the street that affect our neighborhood a lot more. Also, I know of people who have a second kitchen in their basement that is only for their own use. Who is going to be policing this? The Gestapo?

Question : If you have a home that is a rental or has a rental suite within the home and you happen to live within city limits that does not have city water, sewer,etc.. will there be a discount for a rental not using these city services?

Drove by the office of KPMG Friday. About 15 cars in the parking lot. Nice flashy building with three floors. Must be a lot of Cities that need their services. to help gouge the inocent tsxpayer. Our righjt wing society is alive and well.
Cheers

This whole years (so far) has been a relentless attack on home owners wallets, in my opinion! There are only a few weeks left in the year and with Christmas getting closer I am hoping that just one positive bit of news will emanate from the ivory towers of City Hall!

However, I won’t be holding my breath waiting!

I think it might be time to form a coalition of taxpayers to start exercising control over City Hall. They don’t seem to be working for us anymore and they’re supposed to be. Time they remembered.

I guess this approach is their response to the affordable housing issue in this community?

This money grab does not bode well. Income from secondary suites is, IMO “taxable income” federally. Sneaky way to abolish secondary suites. Tax them out of existence. Owner harassment “secondary”. Gotta keep that word in the conversation.

Retired 02
Best get your eyes checked. There are more than 3 floors in that building, and do you know how many floors KPMG actually occupy?
Did you count the underground parking in your survey?
Are you trying to suggest that KPMG only works for cities?
If you had checked your “facts” before you post, your posting would have sounded more credible

This is long overdue. Illegal basement suites have been cash- in- the-pocket for too long. Many of these suites are not up to standard, housing people without tenancy agreements. As long as the people had cash , such as drug dealers and other criminals, the landlords turned a blind eye. It has been a strain on police, ambulance, fire department , bylaws and a nightmare for other neighbors. The city can’t run without taxes! This a great idea, finally, from City Hall. Canada Revenue is going to be happier too as these landlords will now have to claim some income! As with most laws and taxes, government has to take action because a few are taking advantage of everyone! This is a good thing !!!

The City says the “Service fee” is necessary because secondary suites (legal or not) result in “added burdens and costs on the City in relation to infrastructure and services”.
——————————————–
Wonder if the added burdens and costs should be passed onto the hotels that rent out their daily suites? Fair is Fair!

I agree with Boon – if the illegal suites were paying “their share” this wouldnt be necessary.

Good job guys, now we will have more homeless families

first council gets ride of their staff that were attempting to helping out on the social side, then they shelve their efforts to help the homeless by scrapping the committee that was supposed to work towards eliminating homelessness and now they are making the cost of finding a safe place to live even more expensive for those that can least afford it.

Who does our mayor and council think occupy these suites, the rich and famous? This is another attach on students, seniors and the working poor.

Palopu: I agree with your comment. “Unless they were born yesterday, they should be able to determine that they would be complicate in the running of the illegal suite, and therefore could have their asses sued off if someone perished in a fire, or otherwise was injured”.

At the end of the day, illegal is still illegal. City can’t have it both ways. Say its illegal and then reward them by letting them continue to rent out as long as the city gets their money !!

On another note; its been discussed that there be fees for staff parking in city hall parking lot. Maybe mayor and council should have to pay for their parking each and every time they park for all their meetings …..

Boon and Interceptor nailed it. And I’m sure the ‘landlords’ of these substandard illegal suites are declaring all of that rental income on their taxes… yeah right.

I have a legal rental unit. I’ll just raise the rent by $100/month. 1200 more a year should cover it

The message seems to be clear enough; If you are going to live in Prince George, we are going to make sure you pay for it!

Message received!!!

If you have a house and property, PG City Hall will tax you on it, but we will also tax you again of the size of your house’s roof and driveway (double tax you) on that very same roof and driveway we included in the original property tax!

We will tax through utility fees for collecting your garbage, but we are now taxing you again for that garbage throughout new landfill user fees. We will find a way of not just taxing you, but taxing you again, in some way for that very same service to you, or item you own.

We are the City of Prince George, and we will make you PAY for living here!!!

Carpenter, why wouldn’t you claim the additional service fee as a business expense against your income ? Hhhmmmmm…….

Seems like time for a taxpayer revolt. Perhaps we should all get toghether and not pay our city taxes next July.I believe that a person can not pay their taxes for 3 years before the City can put the property up for sale and then you still have time to pay it to bring things back into line. Wonder how the City would function if all property owners said we are not going to pay our taxes this year. Perhaps that is a message that would be listened to.

We’ll call it ” the Stolz Revolt”.

Maybe the city would have to borrow the money they didn’t get from the taxpayers and maybe just add that onto our city debt. Then in the third year everyone will pay their taxes and PRESTO! Enough money for a PAC! Sly scheme. Should be interesting explanations if this were to happen before the next election campaign. A spin doctor for every incumbent please. Could happen.

Gotta talk to my bank into holding onto my taxes for another year. It would deprive city hall, show them where I stand AND maybe earn more interest during the following year. Banks obligated to forward city taxes annually? Hmmmm? I will check.

Boon, most people buy a house and if it has a suite that is considered a ‘mortgage helper’. If you take the city’s fees out of your portion of the rent then it becomes less of a ‘mortgage helper’

This is a tax grab for the fixed income / disability and those who do not earn enough to buy a home. It raises the rents for everyone, not only those in these suites and houses. If private dwellings raise their rents to cover these increases and owners/managers of larger developments see their rents now lower than a basement suite of the same size (bachelor, 1 and 2 bedroom) there is not guess as to what they will do to their rates.

You can decide to withhold your tax and utility payments,(a Councilor did) but it will cost you in the end with big fees and interest. Far higher interest and fees than you could earn on the money these days. So go ahead, just know that you’ll be paying more in the end.

When these clowns do something we don’t agree with, we need to stop talking about it here, and inundate their e-mail and voice mail accounts with our dissatisfaction. They are supposed to be representing us! Maybe clamping down on illegal suites is a good thing, but like people have said, they’re just going to pass these costs on to renters, so make the fees reasonable.

Carpenter: “I have a legal rental unit. I’ll just raise the rent by $100/month. 1200 more a year should cover it “

Finally, someone gets it.

Costs are always passed to the end user, whether it’s rental costs or anything you buy. This is no different.

I own a duplex with two rental properties in it. I’ll raise the rent $50 per month and that should cover it. I don;t give a damn if people leave Prince George. The people at this “Consider Prince George” program are hooped now. They may care but I am not letting ‘Scary Shari’ bully me. I have five bedroom home a basement that has two laundry rooms and a spare kitchen and spare bathroom but I don’t rent it out so I am not paying fees for it. I believe the previous owner rented it out 8 years ago but that is not my problem! We have a large family and we use it. I apologized for voting for Green publicly now leave me alone. She’s gone next election anyway.

Western2 better watch for people peeking into your basement windows looking for that second fridge or stove. When we owned in town we had Shaw and Hydro peeking into the basement windows on more than one occasion looking for who knows what, now that will increase to 1.6 more bylaw officers doing the same thing.

The new rules are you have to pay for it unless you decommission it, which has a lot of costs in itself. Get thick blinds and keep them closed

Does anyone know who came up with this new tax scheme?

Beth James! The new City of PG Manager….who by the way has NEVER run a Municipality before and who is a former Provincial bean counter/mouthpiece…..she is not going to be in PG long, this is just a stepping stone for her, thats why the Union is being denied a chance to even negotiate over and over, Shes gonna make her mark here by showing everyone How “TOUGH” she can be with the Union and its workers and its “whiny” citizens, her and Green are the WORST thing to ever hit this City and the 2 of them have this City about to make history with its first strike! Ask any union member and they’ll tell ya it stopped being about $ a while ago and is now about being treated with some friggin respect!! She sees EVERYTHING as a source of revenue and could care less about PGs citizens, hell SHE hasent even lived here for year!?

So you HAVE to decommission the suite or pay, even if nobody is living in it? There is a suite in our house but it just gets used by visiting family a few weeks out of the year. And then we use the kitchen area for big holiday dinners and such – extra space for the food. I quite like having it there for that reason but I’m quite sure I’m not putting any added stress on city services. We’re just a regular old family of four. And anyways, even if a person wasn’t using their suite and wouldn’t mind if it was gone – to decommission you have to remove the cooking facilities and make sure the suite is open to the rest of the house and all that? So basically the city is saying you either pay x or you pay y. The things you might have wanted to know when you bought a house with a kitchen in the basement…

Definitely will be keeping the blinds shut. Hopefully they can’t trace me from this post. HA.

Beth James just came from a Liberal Government appointment where she was an assistant deputy minister responsible for increasing efficiencies and performance management in government services.

Her big initiative was to identify and implement shared platforms in the various government services like health care and education, etc. The whole shared platform initiative was a huge failure.

You won’t find the government using the words; “shared platforms” because they don’t want to speak ill of the dead!

http://www.fmi.ca/uploads/1/James_Eaton_e.pdf

I have no proof but my personal opinion is that all the latest increases are just to build up a nice kitty for the PAC and the Winter Games!

After all the fuzzifications and broken promises I do not believe anything any more!

“Who is going to be policing this? The Gestapo?”

Gestapo stands for Secret State Police! They wouldn’t have something like that here in PG, so rest easy!

They have been doing this in the City of Surrey for at least 10 years. It is an additional %50 of the City taxes so $400 is a deal. Do you think this council came up with this all on their own. It covers the extra burden put on our already aging infrastructure and it covers school taxes of the kids that are living in the suites so there is a proper count. It also makes sure the suites are to code. What is wrong with everyone paying their fair share. Why should 2 seniors that don’t make an income off their house pay the same as a house that has 6 or 10 people living in it. When a water meter is put on a house with normal use the rate almost always goes down from the flat rate.

whats next.. If your vehicle is to heavy you should have to pay additional taxes, the city has additional expenses for road maintenance due to damage from heavier vehicles.
If you have purchased a vehicle out of the city, you should have to pay additional taxes as those dealerships are not contributing to the city through taxes that are incurred by our local dealerships.
If you live on a street is long, your taxes should be higher than the residents that live on shorter streets as you require more snow removal, cleaning, etc.
My solution for all the unhappy taxpayers is to move out of city limits.

The additional costs for legal or illegal suites will be down loaded on the renters, who in my opinion for the most part cannot afford any more increases.

Its all well and good for people who earn between $100,000.00 and $250,000.000 per year to be waxing philosophically about what is the best way to tax Citizens, however you can rest assured they are so far out of touch with reality that I wouldn’t allow them to look after, or feed my cat.

We have a serious problem at City Hall when is comes to taxation, increases in services, and in spending money in general. They have a culture of entitlement that goes beyond the ability of anyone to comprehend.

Some people on this site have been advocating for some form of tax revolt, and I agree 100%, it is long overdue, and seems it will be the only way that we can stop the madness at City Hall.

The people at City Hall are counting on us to roll over and pay all these tax increases and service increases, and then dance in the streets when we get the Winter Games, forgetting that we paid $15 Million in hard earned money to have these games here. Furthermore most of us did not even want them and did not get a chance to voice an opinion. (referendum)

Every increase in taxes and service, every dollar that has been pissed into the wind, every trip to China, and every pipedream that comes out of IPG, has to be kept alive through 2014 right up to and including the election. Spending tax dollars, capital project spending, service increases, money manipulation, sale of City Property etc; have to become election issues.

They are counting on us to go back to sleep, through 2014. Lets prove them wrong.

Some families of other cultures have elderly parents living upstairs with there own kitchens and living quarters very nicely done I might add. The son and his wife and children live on the main floor which is another whole house in itself complete with kitchen, front room, bedrooms etc.
The result is more than one family living in this home.
Just trying to think of how these homes will be affected by the new rules….

Taken from the city’s website: Utilities Billing : Houses with additional suites are subject to additional water, sewer and garbage service charges.

With the burden of services and costs to the city of these rental suites, this fee SHOULD be charged/ paid into our utilities…thus allowing those to budget this added cost ..twice a year.

Taken from this coming City’s leftover Budget Meeting along with our Planning and Developement :

12. The Director of Planning and Development, Building Inspector, Bylaw

Enforcement Officer for the City or their designates shall have the right of entry

into any building or premises within the City at any reasonable time for the

purposes of determining the number and factual existence of dwellings and

secondary suites in the building or premises.

WOW.. just Wow ..now thats planning for ya..is the above even legal?

Oh but wait…….????

13. If any portion of this bylaw is declared invalid by a court of competent jurisdiction,

then that invalid portion must be severed and the remainder of the bylaw is

deemed valid.

To all involved, many had just under a year to plan for the rental business license….but this additional Secondary Suite Service fee Bylaw…seems to be thrown in there rather quickly No?

If the City insists on inspecting peoples homes (which is really none of their business) then I suggest that we form a Citizens Committee, who’s purpose would be to inspect the homes of all City Managers, Fireman, Police, Mayor, and Councilors. This way we could determine if they too are paying their fair share of taxes. To inspect only one segment of society is far from being fair, and in fact protects some people.

No doubt there are some at City Hall that have suites the same as others in this City.

Does anyone know how they are going to go about figuring out where these suites are? I don’t really know what kind of information they have access to…I guess they’d know if a building permit was taken out to add the suite, but that’s all I know for sure.

“If The City believes there is an unregistered, unlicensed secondary suite, the owner will be charged a total of $800 per year.”

How will the city determine the above statement? How can they arbitrarily just go and “tax” their citizens an extra $800.00 dollars per year on “if they believe”? – Are they going to knock on people’s doors and ask for a look? – Sounds very “intrusive” equal to a witch hunt….how creepy is City Hall going to get? Seems to me that our forefathers laid down their lives to protect our “home land”….”home”…

Seems to me that City Hall is desperate at finding ways to fleece it’s good citizens…Mayor Green ran an election promising a 10% cut to running the various departments of the city….which all logic would dictate a reduction to service charges maybe even taxes….but the total opposite is true…grabbing at anything to burden her citizens, so that top brass at City Hall can maintain their life styles…and others empire build, while it’s citizens, pay…pay and pay..

Mayor Green – Taxation Machine !!

Does this new service fee scheme mean that even with legal 2 family dwellings already paying double in utilities, that I will also have to pay another $245 on top of that? I guess since there doesn’t appear to be a landlords association here to scream loudly that the business license is unacceptable, they decided they could slap another unwarranted fee on us.
The good news is the CRA says even though the City has declared a business license necessary, it does not follow that you now have to declare your rental income as business income. You can also claim the license fee as a deduction as it is a direct cost of renting out a property.
The bad news is, according to the bylaw, if you don’t pay the business license fee you can be subject to a penalty of $200 per day until it is paid.
We still don’t know what the other new fee is going to be or what their magic formula is being determined to raise or lower their starting rate.
How are we supposed to fight this attack on us? How are we supposed to provide safe, decent and affordable housing when the expenses are continually being increased in this last year?