I don’t know who was doing the ‘snow dance’–but you can stop now!

Tough week for some of us on the issue of a city worker’s strike. So here’s a change of topic:

Has anyone heard about the Canadian gold mining company; Infinito Gold suing the Costa Rica government for 1 billion dollars?

“Costa Rica and the Canadian mining company have been ensnarled in a protracted legal battle over the canceled Las Crucitas project in Cutris de San Carlos, Alajuela, since environmentalists and locals decried the loss of virgin forest and health concerns over leeching chemicals contaminating drinking water.”

The nerve of a country trying to protect it’s own land and environment, from a foreign Canadian company. Oh well, we will be getting a taste of that here in Canada when Harper signs the FIPA with China. Then Chinese foreign companies can sue our a$$es off if we dare say no to their natural resource extraction projects on our own soil.

http://www.ticotimes.net/More-news/News-Briefs/Infinito-Gold-to-sue-Costa-Rica-in-World-Bank-court-for-1-billion_Friday-October-04-2013

Welcome to a world run by Corporations and Business folks, and we are letting this happen!

Oh the city isn’t on strike? It seems like they are…Horrible response to snow removal. Worst I’ve ever seen.

There’s no excuse. There’s been minimal snow compared to most years until this week.

Saving up for the performing arts center.

They just have to find more money considering we probably went way over budget for 2013

12 days til Christmas. People are out shopping and its busy out there. The holiday’s are a stressful time but that does not give anyone the right to treat people that work in retail, or anywhere for that matter, the way I’ve seen people get treated this past week. Many things I’ve heard people called cannot be posted on this site. My favorite one was hearing a lady call another lady at a store a “stupid flying c*** monkey”. Also, yelling at a staff member because they don’t have something extremely popular in stock and that they ruined your family’s Christmas is beyond unacceptable. I’m very thankful I don’t work retail.

I worked retail while going to university….people are so cruel when stressed. Like I have the power to change prices…I had cans of food chucked at me, half eaten loaf of bread, and on a daily basis I was told to “f” off. I ask you, why in the hell would any one work with these monkeys?

Just saying,,,,,Most ppl are bat poop crazy.

I think the city managers and council need to go to Quesnel for a lesson on snow removal . I was there yesterday for work , and the city streets were all cleared . The city was cleaning up the snow piles in the center of the road before noon . Did not see one car stuck or spun out . Parking lots for the most part were clear , and then I come back home to chaos and mayhem . If Shari green wants to be remembers for something , how about being the mayor who fixed our snow removal instead of the mayor who spent all her time focusing on stupid new taxes and trips to China .

When you have an unhappy and oppressed work force, the employer (in this case the City of Prince George) dies a thousand deaths, every day. With a possible strike beginning Saturday, the city workers are probably not giving their best shot. Why would they? They don’t want to go on strike, but they have been backed into the corner by Mayor Green and company, let a messed up city rest on her desk. The reason we have a city work force is to physically take care of the city..Beth James and Mayor Green can do and say what they want…but at the end of the day it takes (skilled)front line workers, to operate machinery, repair water and sewer lines, to repair and service equipment, to operate equipment, to repair electrical problems, to care for our garbage, to handle payroll and collect fees etc, etc, – skilled workers are hard to find these days, so they should be valued and respected, running a city is not the same as running a specialty store…

Some time ago we were promised that postal rate increases would be limited to the rate of inflation. Well, it seems that inflation for 2014 is predicted to be 33%.
Why is the Harper regime attacking the system that some of us still rely upon for communication?
Could it be that they are forcing Canadians to use electronic communications that can be spied upon? Opening our private mail is too labour intensive and they would rather spy on our private lives electronically.

Friday the Thirteenth….easy does it!

“..an unhappy and oppressed work force..”
Hey Cheetos, who are you trying to kid? They are all working under a very rich collective agreement they gleefully signed off on 5 years ago. By the way, these are the same people that take 3 days to do a job a contractor would do in 4 hours…

Cheetos: I totally agree with you. I see no reason why city workers have to be referred to as “useless”. They must be a talented work force to keep this city running as well as it does.
And please stop whining about snow removal everyone. There are only so many pieces of equipment and so many people to run them. Also don’t forget this is always the time when machinery breaks down! Repairs take time.

I agree with Sardonic. Why is the Harper government attacking the postal service? Seems they are good at tearing down, but not so good at maintaining or building up. For me I think Postal Service is an essential national service that I expect from government and rely on.

I guess we can add a dangerous post office box location to the list of things like working until 70 for a pension that the Harper government does for us.

“Walking in a winter wonderland”! I hope that song is stuck in your head all day!

I’m sure glad we don’t live by this! But then again we really aren’t that far away!

http://fukushimaupdate.com

I think the Hart highway up through to Mackenzie Junction from Salmon Valley should be shut down entirely today until they can get the road back under control.

It looks like YRB completely abandoned that highway. Most traffic barely moving on a foot thick compact washboard ice cap with drifting snow. The plow trucks can’t do the job without damaging their plows on the thick ice that was allowed to build up, and their grader burnt to the ground on day one of the storm. All the plow trucks can do is skim now and its only going to get worse with more snow on the way.

Anyone that doesn’t need to travel on that highway should stay home. Plan on a 6-hour drive to Mackenzie Junction from PG today, normally a 2-hour drive.

I agree with the statements as to how some people treat retail employee’s.

One would think that customers would have the brains to know that the clerk at the till has nothing to do with what is sold in the store, or with the prices. People who insult store employee’s, only show their ignorance on how the system works.

Furthermore, these employee’s at best get minimum wage $10.00 per hour, or a little more, usually restricted to 20 hours a week so that they get no benefits.

These jobs (especially in the grocery stores) used to pay over $20.00 per hour plus benefits.

Thanks for at least clearing the main roads. The sides are going to take a bit.

Yes… Wicked roads.. Bus routes still not cleared. Most of downtown appears to be pretty bumpy.. Still same this morning.. Strange it takes them so long to do when the hyways appear to be in great shape.. Ohh Maybe they are having their christmas party before the strike…hehehe

According to the city web site this is what equipment the city streets div. owns.
Sander/Plow Trucks 7
Loaders 4
Graders 5
Sidewalk machines 3
Backhoe
Night Shift: big show blower

Now explain to me people how with a RECORD snow fall; how with 7 sander trucks you expect the entire city to be sanded;
with 5 graders you expect allll streets to be graded, three sidewalk machines. Record snow people! The snow has stopped now, yes. But the snow had been coming down faster than even you could shovel or snow blow your own driveways.
People expect the city crews to magically have every street and sidewalk graded, plowed, and sanded on each and every street you decide to drive on.
Half of you won’t get out of the way so they can do their jobs. The other half of you park on the sidewalks (illegal?) so the machines have to go around you; not to mention the people then don’t have a safe place to walk.
Maybe what you complainers should do is call the city in the morning and tell then where you’re going to be driving, and a grader or sand truck, sidewalk machine can come out ahead of you and clear it. Just for you!! And maybe they can sprinkle it with gold fairy dust while they are at it!!

Give the city workers and all of us a break. Stop your whining. They have and they always will get the priority route 1’s done first. That’s places like 15th, Ospika, Tabour, Foothills, University Way, 5th. etc. Then bus routes. They will keep doing that schedule over and over and over, until the snow stops. Then they can move onto secondary main roads. Your residential street will get done, but everyone a break and stop complaining.

And!! When you see a grader coming down your street and you look out the window while they honk their horn and while you make eye contact with them; get outside and MOVE YOUR CAR!!!

Slow down, drive to the conditions. Stop driving over the windrows, they are solid heavy objects. Go around or turn the other direction. They are obviously working on that road at that moment.

One of the posts earlier this morning complained that its been three days and the snow’s now plowed yet. Good grief !! Think about what you’ve just said. And the other post that you live on a rural road and you’re not plowed. Are you a main road? A bus route?
I’m done, ranting, but please give up on the complaining. We live in Prince George. It snows !!!

If you are concerned that there isn’t enough equipment out there, then maybe phone city hall and ask them to hire more staff and get more equipment. A City this size and that’s all the equipment we own? That’s embarrassing in itself.

Have a nice day everybody !!

Well said Hello?.

People need to stop the “me, me, me” attitude every now and then. The snow removal guys are working round the clock as is. Given the record amount of snow that just fell people need to be a bit more realistic with their expectations.

I manages to get around ok yesterday and our street was plowed, not real wide but fine for now.

But as long as there is a no lay off clause do not agree with hiring more city workers to deal with an occasional big dump. Contractors are a better way to deal with it because when the snow goes away so do they.

To the women that was jogging on Foothills
last night. Get off the road drivers are having a tough time as it is. If you feel the need to run go to a gym.

According to the city web site this is what equipment the city streets div. owns.
Sander/Plow Trucks 7
Loaders 4
Graders 5
Sidewalk machines 3
Backhoe
Night Shift: big show blower
===========================================

And how much equipment with owner operators is contracted for snow removal?? The solution is to have snow removal contractors on a fee for service basis. There is a lot of equipment sitting idle in this town that could be contracted on a short term basis to deal with unusual snow falls like the one we just had.

They could move the snow faster if the dump trucks didn’t have to park alongside of highway 16 east waiting to dump their full loads.

Hello ?? hahaha you are amusing.. Take it you haven’t had your coffee yet???

Good comments re: retail workers. I have seen them treated badly, and I cannot figure out why. Same with waiters and waitresses. Do you really want to tick someone off who handles your food?

Regarding snow plows, people need to be patient, especially those who live out in the boonies. Someone was complaining in another thread about how their rural road hasn’t been plowed in 3 days. It might not be plowed for 13.

Axman said it best, it’s not about ‘me me me’ all the time, but try telling that to people and their eyes glaze over.

The people bitching would also complain if the city spent more money on equipment then also complain seeing that same equipment sitting idle for most of the year. Oh they would also bitch about hiring more lazy workers to operate said equipment.

Can someone tell me why graders don’t use there wing blade anymore, they use to.

I thought I finally seen a smart driver this morning…
He pulled over to the side of the road to answer his phone….
my vision was shattered whenthe idiot drove off with phone fully adhered to his skull…
I can understand driving and talking on your phone…that makes you stupid…
but pulling over, stoppping, to only drive on???????
I am really hard pressed to come up with words to decribe this yahoo.

that said…. have a great weekend all…
hopefully the snow is almost finished for awhile.

As far as I know, the city always has a call out for “on call” equipment and operators for events such as this. The problem is that they guidelines are too restrictive to the contractor, such as making sure they are available to the city 24/7 regardless of any other work they may have ongoing. If they don’t agree to that clause they run the risk of not getting any city contract. Most people with a dump truck or loader, etc are not going to sign a contract with ties their hands to making a living elsewhere.

buzzinga, I’m going to answer your question with a question…what’s a wing blade?

i’m serious, i have no idea.

Really random, but here’s my rant for today.
People – don’t get a pet if you can’t keep it forever!! I’m so sick of seeing these ads for cats and dogs who are right around a year old and being given away because:
a) You didn’t realize how much time is required for a pet and don’t have the time to give it anymore
b) You’re moving again and new landlord won’t accept pets
c) You didn’t realize you had allergies (I call BS on that one)
d) Some other stupid reason

I understand that life circumstances can change – maybe you’re getting engaged and fiance is allergic, or soon to be step kids allergic. Or your health has declined. There are legitimate reasons why some people have to give up their pets. But to get a pet just because you can, then have to give it up less than a year later is just cruel to the animal.

There, rant done for the day.

“Can someone tell me why graders don’t use there wing blade anymore, they use to.” Depends on where they are blading. They use them all the time out on the bush roads to push back the snow, pretty hard to do that in a city.

If you’re curious about city salaries/wages check out the City of Prince George Sochi report. I did and it’s quite informative. I would like to also inform some that Bill Gaal gave himself a $52,000 a year raise, Beth James salary is $212,000 a year, plus numerous benefits including a vehicle allowance..there’s a lot of information in that report that is staggering. I have been doing plenty of research on the negotiations and I can tell you this, wages are not at the forefront of the issue, it’s about The city trying to strip the CUPE members of their rights. Listening to the smear campaign issued by the City without doing a little more research makes one ignorant. To believe wholeheartedly what a politician and her overpriced hired henchmen tell you is naïve. You also might want to consider that ever take hike from the city came with raises for the management and city council members, not for unionized employees and Management plans on granting their right to another raise in the New Year. It’s not the CUPE members that are the issue, the issue is our Mayor and her Management team and their complete lack of thought regarding the citizens of PG, it’s all about self interest. We will be getting a tax increase regardless, to the tune of 4.2% and it’s under the guise of funding infrastructure and the 2015 games. It’s actually to provide better wages for the pencil pushers to decide where to spend a lot more of our money recklessly.

Oh, just to add to the misery of the roads, I heard on the radio this morning (some cop spokesman, don’t know who) was warning people they are going to be stopping and checking tires, if you don’t have a snowflake your vehicle will be confiscated for 7 days and you will be given an additional fine or not showing due consideration for other motorists. Unbelievable the amount of crap they are coming up with to steal even more money from people. People have been using all seasons and regular snow tires in the north for years with no issues. If you want to penalize someone for running summers this time of year, fine, but leave the people alone who have all season even IF they don’t have the “snowflake”. Money grubbing sobs.

The City has a rule that any piece of equipment over 20 years can not be hired by the City. Right now there are good loaders and graders out there that are well maintained that could come to the aid of the City.

As for Quesnel vs PG, look at the different size of the cities. PG was built spreading out with curved roads that were to slow people down instead it slows down the plowing equipment.

Thanks go out to a young person who was seen with a snowblower making a walking path for a couple of blocks. Maybe more people should do that.

Also, about snow removal- City Council and the Streets Manager determine when snow removal is essential- CUPE snow plow operators aren’t the deciding factor on when snow removal is necessary. It’s all about the budget, not public safety. Thanks to City council. If you are displeased with the service you’re receiving, call city hall and lodge a complaint, that’s the only way you’re going to get anywhere…right to Mayor GreenBacks office.

At 212000 a Year she can buy a New Vehicle every Year, you don’t need any Vehicle Allowance at this Pay! No Wonder no Money is left in the Till.

“For me I think Postal Service is an essential national service that I expect from government and rely on.”

Then feel free to make a contribution. For the rest of us living in the current century it is service that has more cost than the value it provides. What you call tearing down people in the real world call making an evaluation and considering alternatives. I bet you were upset when they removed the poles for tying up horses from George street.

Outwest, that’s just the tip of the iceberg! Quoting: In her contract James will receive the same basic benefit entitlements as all exempt city staff, a $6,000 a year vehicle allowance and 30 vacation days. In the event she leaves the job, her severance package will consist of 6 months’ salary plus one month per year of service, to a maximum of 18 months. Since she’s coming from out of town, James will also receive a one-time $25,000 relocation allowance.
I will assume she’s also going to be with the rest of city management who will receive a salary increase in the new year.

According to the city web site this is what equipment the city streets div. owns.

Sander/Plow Trucks 7
Loaders 4
Graders 5
Sidewalk machines 3
Backhoe
Night Shift: big snow blower
————————————-

So there we have the reason in a nutshell why this city cannot ever clear snow the way it needs to.

That is not a “me, me” situation. It is simply a fact that if during a more normal 8cm snowfall they cannot clear it within 36 hours, how in the hell are they ever going to do it with a 26cm+ snowfall in say twice the time?

One cannot rely on contracted equipment. The front end loaders running around clearing driveway’s are a joke. They slow down the whole works and make exiting a driveway in the winter unsafe … I have seen the snow piled as high as the stop sign at the corner of our street in heavy snowfall years. Totally unsafe for several months of the year.

Buzzinga….you can move snow with the grader wing but they don’t cut ice very well.

The people who associate the current City Manager with the snowfall, the lack of being able to clear snow, and the current situation with the union do not remember one day to the next. They are the ones who keep on returning stupid people to Council.

The fact that this City has never been prepared for snow and cannot remove it like normal Canadian winter cities do falls on many past mayors and City Managers, not James!

The fact that the union had a 5 x 3% contract can be blamed on Kinsley and Bates, not James!

The fact that the union agreement was not started to be negotiated earlier can be blamed on Green, Bates and Soltis, not James!

The fact that the union is spoiled in their demands and totally unrealistic and totally uninformative with respect to how much they actually get in relation to other communities can be blamed on Bigelow and other union leaders, not James!

Start to understand how things around this city work and you will not be seen to post totally stupid opinions.

Can someone do a bit of work and find out how much snow removal equipment the City of Quesnel has and how much snow fell in Quesnel.

Canada Post wouldn’t be in the red if the postal employees union ahdn’t made it so lucrative to be a posty.

It is a cycle that jsut keeps turning. Union negotiate on behalf of their members and it gets to the point the company that provides them income can no longer run a viable business.

Count how many large operations in Canada have shut their doors in past few years because they could no longer afford to meet the demands of the employees. Unions have their place but as employee – be careful what you wish for. Consequences!

On another note, are you all ready for a the dumping fee at the land fill when your garbage isn’t removed next week?

…does dyslexia come with age? Sorry about all the typos and gramatical errors in my post.

Was on the news last night that the average household now buys on average 2 stamps a month and that home delivery costs $100 a year for households that still receive home delivery. Hardly a recipe for success.

When you consider that things like Christmas cards and birthday cards(except from grandma;) will soon be a distant memory thanks to social media, it is clear that the post office has to change with the times.

==================================================================
“One cannot rely on contracted equipment.”

Therein lies the rub, and not the Lululemon kind. If you beef up men and equipment for the occasional record snowfall what will happen to them during more normal times when we can go weeks with no snow. Idle men and equipment do cost money. The only time our driveway is cleared is when the grader comes by to push the banks back.

Part timers?
On call?
Retirees?

Here’s what the City Website actually says about snow removal equipment.

Typical day shift work force in full operation. Foreman (3)

Sanders/Plow Trucks (7) Rentals (0)
Loaders (4) Rentals (12) Total (16)
Graders (5) Rentals (5) Total (10)
Sidewalk Machines (3)
Snow Blower/Loader (0)
Loader Plows (1)
Backhoe (1)

Typical afternoon shift work force. (1) Foreman

Sander/Plow trucks (2)
Loaders (2)
Graders (2)

Typical night shift work force in full operation.

Sander/Plow Trucks (7)
Loaders (4) Rented (8) Total (12)
Graders (5) Rented (5) Total (10).

No doubt they can ramp this up, however it gives you a good indication of what equipment and rentals they have available.

“People have been using all seasons and regular snow tires in the north for years with no issues.”

Most laws a created re-actively. The reason there is a law about proper winter tires as designated by the snowflake symbol is because some people were oblivious (not aware) to the need or thought they had the skills to compensate for the conditions. The fact that there is legislation shows that there were enough incidents that the law makers had to do something in name of public safety.

The snowflake has as much to do with tread as it has to do with rubber compound. If your tire does not have the snowflake, then it is likely that the rubber compound will not be soft enough at colder temperatures to work properly. By the same token, driving all-seasons with a snowflake during the summer, will cause premature tire wear due to the softer rubber.

Personally, I prefer studded tires. Recent advances in tire construction like the walnut particles embedded in the compound and better sipe patterns make this less critical than it used to be, but I trust steel biting into ice. Especially on rough surfaces where sipes are not as effective.

The reason they are having this check for proper winter tires is at least two-fold:
It is their job as they are responsible for public safety and it is the law,
They have probably noticed during accident investigations that often the vehicle involved did not comply with winter tire needs during this time of year.

Yesterday I watch an s10 at tim hortin’s on Victoria, spin his wheels for about 10 minutes just backing out of the parking space, and another 10 or 15 minutes getting out of the parking lot with the help of about 5 pushers. That is why we have the law, and why it is absurd to argue against it.

Be safe, properly equip your vehicle. It is not just your convenience, it is also the safety of everyone else you may effect if you do not.

Gus, your comments are skewed. James has taken the responsibility as the city manager to be informed about past negotiations and what they entailed. She is trying to play hardball and the only spoiled city workers are the ones in management, including James! I don’t think you understand what’s actually occurring and instead you’re listening to the bogus rants of a politician and her WELL PAID cronies. Show me an honest politician and I’ll show you a unicorn. Perhaps it’s best to become informed before you form an opinion. I won’t say your opinion is ‘stupid’, just ignorant.

LeighL…..are we paying you to sit at a city desk and play on 250 ?

The trouble is, that the sander/plow trucks will not put their blades down in town, even when they could. They could do a lot to prevent the buildup of snow for traffic in a lot of areas but I guess they’re told not to.
So that brings us down to 5 graders to do all the plowing.

Bill Gaal, can you give us and answer on that? Hmm?

Our Snow removal, like garbage, sewer, storm sewer, etc; has never been a number one priority for the City.

Over the years we have spent hundreds of millions on sport facilities, and other expensive buildings, plus goofy projects like the Community Energy System, plus millions upon millions purchasing property, and either giving it away, or not using it. Huge expenditures like the Airport Runway Expansion, and the Boundry Roads expansion, that have no short term benefit and maybe none in the long term.

If our infrastructure was the first priority then all other things would fall into place.

The cost of running this City is out of proportion to the amount of people who live here.

The main intent for the Management and Unions in Prince George is to maintain the status quo, which works for them in regards to salaries, benefits, and job security, however it does not work well for the average taxpayer.

There has to be a better way. We should be leaders in Civic Administration, instead I suspect we are at the bottom or very near.

Loki, there you go again. There is no law requiring snow tires with the snow flake symbol.

All those businesses, and people,blowing, an pushing their snow on the streets, are making it harder on the city for the city to clean the streets. We all pay for this to be cleaned up, right. We should all call the city, and report such doings. Figure all the money they can save, or charge them with.There is extra money for the city there.Less need to up the taxes more. Where is the bylaw officer at times like this?? Come on people,, lets all help save our tax dollars.. drop a dime.

They used wing blades in place of using loaders to remove the snow from the driveways, I thought it worked out very well.

“By the same token, driving all-seasons with a snowflake during the summer, will cause premature tire wear due to the softer rubber”

Huh?

The problem is not that there is no snow clearing equipment. The problem is that for several years the city has devoted the bulk of the equipment to clearing the downtown core. If you were to go down there, like you all do every day(BS), you will be happy to be able to drive around snow free. That is, of course, if you can get out of your driveway and onto a main road. The snow has always been a problem but it has only been exacerbated by this forward thinking approach.

Yes, all those businesses, and people,blowing, an pushing their snow on the streets should store it inside their stores until spring. Wouldn’t want to have to wear out our taxpayer funded snow clearing equipment. ;-)

Spud. The downtown area was a hell of a mess yesterday. Not much snow clearing taking place that I could see.

Maybe they got it cleaned up last nite, but somehow I doubt it.

At law,…what is a winter tire – Motor Vehicle Act Section 208

For the purpose of this section, “winter tire” means a tire that is:
advertised or represented by its manufacturer or a person in the business of selling tires to be a tire intended principally for winter use, and that provides, or is designed to provide, adequate traction in snow or mud; and

in the condition respecting tread wear and other particulars the regulations prescribe.

The minister responsible for the administration of the Transportation Act may, by public notice or by placing signs, prohibit vehicles from being driven or operated on a highway that are not equipped with chains, winter tires or sanding devices, or a combination of these the minister considers adequate and necessary in view of prevailing road conditions.

For the purposes of a prosecution under this section, the onus is on the defendant to prove that a tire alleged not to be a winter tire is in fact a winter tire.

B.C. Highways

If you plan on driving on snow or ice covered roads, make sure you have the proper tires on your vehicle. Either winter tires or chains are required by law on some highways, and if you’re traveling in many areas of Whistler or the Interior. You could be stopped and turned back if the road conditions are such that winter tires or chains are required to travel safely. Visit External link, opens in a new windowhttp://www.drivebc.ca/ for current road and weather conditions.

Don’t wait until the snow starts falling, equip your vehicle with a proper set of tires.

Buzzinga I think you are talking about the little drop down door on the end of the graders moldboard used for clearing driveway openings as they drove by. They aren’t called wing blades. Wings are the blades that are mounted on the side of a grader and are used for pushing snow back away from the shoulder of the road.

Do I have to use winter tires?

Although winter tires are not mandatory in B.C., keep in mind that the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure can designate them to be required on certain roads and highways. Typically happens during the fall and winter months in northern B.C. and the southern Interior.

If you are driving on these roads without winter tires, police can ticket you and make you turn back.

The City of Prince George encompasses an area of 122.88 square miles, and has approx. 416 miles of City Road.

Quesnel on the other hand has an area of 13.66 square miles, not sure how many miles of roads, however it becomes pretty obvious why Quesnel should be able to get their roads plowed much faster than Prince George .

Posted by: Dragonmaster on December 13 2013 10:16 AM
Loki, there you go again. There is no law requiring snow tires with the snow flake symbol.

—————-

From ICBC:

“Although winter tires are not mandatory in B.C., keep in mind that the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure can designate them to be required on certain roads and highways.external linkThis typically happens during the fall and winter months in northern B.C. and the southern Interior.

If you are driving on these roads without winter tires, police can ticket you and make you turn back.”

Which raises the question, “what is a winter tire?” and, surprise , surprise! the government still hasn’t made that determination. Is M+S good enough?

So, it looks like you’re at the mercy of the RCMP when you get stopped.

All that’s required is M&S in a winter tire or chains required area Loki.

ICBC says M&S is good enough.

Opine so unions are at fault for all the world’s whoes thankyou simple enough for me to understand.

Palopu, if Prince George has an area approximately ten times the area of Quesnel shouldn’t PG have ten times the number of snow clearing equipment to get the job done as quickly as Quesnel?

Do you have any numbers to compare?

You make some good points on where the City spendsm your tax dollars Pal. What they are doing is feeding the economy when they should be providing a service to the tax payer.

And I should point out that city taxes were not used in the aieport runway. fortunately.
Cheers

Ok thanks for correcting me Dragonmaster

I’m probably dating myself, but I remember when it snowed like this when we were kids we could go around the neighborhood and make a few dollars shovelling driveways and walks.

I would’ve paid someone had they come to my door. But I guess those days are gone.

JohnnyBelt – when I was housesitting in College Heights a couple years ago a young kid did just that. I was more than happy to give him $20 to clear the driveway and walkway.
When I have kids I’ll be kicking them out the door with shovels in hand to do the same.

The parking at the Hospital is atrocious. Yesterday I witnessed the NH Connections Bus stuck, patients and visitors shoveling and pushing to get in or out of parking stalls. Cars being damaged when sliding sideways into other parked cars. Today the same mess. You would think that overnight a loader would have cleared the stalls. No. The lone Bobcat operator just looks busy going over and over the plowed access lanes.
But across the street at the Health Unit the parking lot is bare and dry. Snow, what snow?

@peegee – Good to see the practice hasn’t disappeared completely.

So all-seasons are now illegal in winter?

Isn’t somewhat ironic that when city council want to raise a fee or rate for a service they seem to check with Vancouver but when those rates are less than councill wants to charge, council conveniently forgets about Vancouver. Recent case in point, the now dormant fee for illegal suites. The business licences for rental units are considerably less in Vancouver than what is being proposed here. Guess Vancouver only counts for taxes and the wages for the city manager, who apparently is unable to communicate so they now want to hire up to three people to speak for her. Sesame Street comes to mind but just whose hand is where?

Posted by: weaksauce on December 13 2013 11:12 AM
So all-seasons are now illegal in winter?
——————

Only on those roads designated by the ministry as requiring winter tires and or chains.

Highways 97 and 16 around here for example.

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/SeasonalDriving/winter_chains.html

City workers deserve Respect, and the Mayor and Beth “Make my Mark” James are trying to further their own political aspirations at the cost of the PG workers! I support their Strike 100%….because they were Forced into it by Management! Bill Gaal running around the 18th Ave works yard yelling “STRIKE….STRIKE!!” tells you all you need to know about what was this Mayors intention from day one, SHES A DISGRACE!!!

Many years ago I was one of those cashiers that had to deal with the cranky public (and I believe they are probably worse today). It was in the days where we had to call in all credit cards over $100.00 and between 6 cashiers we had one telephone to use. It was Christmas Eve we had all listened to the music for the past 6 weeks and never wanted to hear another song. It was about 20 minutes before closing after a long day of unhappy people when a man came to my till with the usual frying pan other household crap for his wife because he waited until the last minute when everything else was gone. His credit card would not go through and I was told to keep it and cut it up (our worst nightmare). Upon telling him this he presented me with his best language and told me to shove the frying pan up my ass. At this point enough was enough and I did not care if I got fired so in my sweetest voice I said to him “Sir I would be more than happy to accommodate you BUT earlier today I shoved and iron and a toaster up there and I simply have no more room.” Guess he did not complain as I still had my job and some days wondered why. SO TO ALL GENERAL PUBLIC as easy as it is to be rude for no reason other than you are a jerk, give it a rest. To the people working in these positions my heart goes out to you, I know what you are going through and it is so WRONG.

ok DM, I was slightly mistaken about it being permanent law. If they can give you a fine or confiscate your vehicle, then there must be legislation. It seems that the legislation is only in effect when conditions warrant it.

My question is why be a jacka55 and risk other people because you are too cheap, or too stupid, or too stubborn to properly equip the vehicle you are responsible for? If you are driving it, you are responsible for it, and liable for any damages caused by your lack of foresight.

I have been in the north for forty years, and every year is this same stupid debate/discussion.
This is not the lower mainland. The lower mainland is not representative of this area. After October and until April, Everywhere outside the low mainland is “winter driving conditions”. That means ice, snow, high winds, and snow drifts. Expecting maintenance crews to maintain roads in idyllic conditions, every day, all winter is irrational. Like the boy scouts say, Always be prepared. If you are not properly equipped, you put me and mine at risk.

During this FFFA, there has been mention of professional drivers being to lazy to chain up. What is the difference for a private vehicle operator in the same conditions. Either can cause a problem if stuck going up a hill or can slide out of control down the hill.
Yesterday on my way to work, there was one beater chevy going down the highway at 30 km/h. Obviously not properly equipped, Due to his severely different speed than the rest of the traffic, he created a hazard to everyone else because as he was approached from behind, the approaching vehicles had to slow down. Again this morning, there was a little economy car doing 30 km./h. Remember, this is on the Hart where traffic (usually speeding anyway) travels at 80 when its clear and this week down to 60.

I miss the very sunny cold winter days in PG but living in Vernon I certainly do not miss the big snowfalls.

Still miss the sunny and sparkling PG winter days though.

Either people do not drive highways around here or they do not read signs.

There are specific spots on BC highways as well as highways in other provinces as well as states south of the border which say what is written on the linked image:

http://tranbc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Chain-Up-Sign_DSC_0687.jpg

You have a choice … and only in certain sections …. use winter tires beyond this point OR carry chains.

One of those signs is at the bottom of Peden Hill. Notice it and read it the next time you drive up the hill.

If that is not clear enough, which it isn’t since I have yet to see a sign further down the road that says “winter tires and/or chains no longer required beyond this point”, then maybe MOT needs to borrow one of those communications people that the City had, has, or will have again. ;-)

IN caase people are not aware of the meaning of the word “or” … that might be the sticking point here …. it is a word donating a choice. Only one is required.

On can always do both – have winter tires AND carry chains ….. or even better, have winter tires on the car and put chains on when going uphill on 6% + grades.

;-)

One could also drive a tank … just make sure the tracks are plastic or rubber, not steel …. ;-)

I wonder how the City’s electric car is doing these days ….. especially these snowy days …. and on those -28C days we had just recently.

Any recommendations of buying a fleet of 10 yet?

Posted by: peegee on December 13 2013 10:56 AM
“JohnnyBelt – when I was housesitting in College Heights a couple years ago a young kid did just that. I was more than happy to give him $20 to clear the driveway and walkway.”

I too did this when I lived in town, I always have owned a snowblower and when they come ask I used to allow them to do it for whatever they quoted and a bit more. Then one day a young man who was short on rent money came to the door and asked if he could do the drive. I let him do it and my wife also gave him a few sport drinks because he was sweating pretty hard for the 3 or 4 inches we had. Paid the guy and later that night took out the snowblower to finish the job.
About 3 weeks later we had a young man at the door who claimed he couldn’t go to work because he hurt his back doing our driveway and couldn’t make his rent again. This time I paid him once again for not doing the job and hoped that was the end of it. Luckily for us it was.

Be very careful who you let shovel your driveway, same as anyone doing work on your house – they are required to have a WCB number or you have to get one for them. Check out the rules at WorksafeBC

“Palopu, if Prince George has an area approximately ten times the area of Quesnel shouldn’t PG have ten times the number of snow clearing equipment to get the job done as quickly as Quesnel?”

===================================

Generally speaking, I think that would be a logical conclusion. I would think that snow clearing would be the type of thing you could analyze based on km of road vs. available equipment or some similar ratio.

I thought about this the other day and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a City of Ottawa truck cleaning my road, it’s always been a private contractor to the best of my recollection. I did some very basic research and it looks like the city has a huge compliment of contractors at the ready for the winter months when they are needed.

I always see City trucks doing allot of the main routes and the pre-treating of the roads so my guess is that the city focuses on the main roads and arterials and subcontracts the lower priority stuff out. I could certainly be wrong on that though.

Using contractors in the winter could certainly help reduce overall costs as you could access the equipment when needed and not have it sitting around not being utilized in the summer months.

I always laugh when I see a row of four or five dump trucks rolling down a road beside a large piece of snow blowing equipment. They just work their way down removing all the snow and come back and repeat until its done. It’s like one minute there are 4 foot snow banks and 30 minutes later all the snow is gone. It’s like a production line operation to tell you the truth.

Thanks axman. So can I be penalized even im good driving conditions?

(I drive an AWD truck with excellent tires when conditions are bad, before everybody jumps all over me)

“snow drifts” … I have been in PG for 40 years and have yet to see real snow drifts.

Just buy a box of cable chains from Canadian Tire slip them under a seat and you are covered, you never actually have to use them.

ntkr13, my son and I did the snow dance. Sorry ’bout that :)

doneright – I agree with you about the woman jogging last night. I love to run but I am not stupid like that. I can’t imagine why she would think it was safe to job.

Huh re: “money grubbing sobs” (RCMP). Just remember that it is the police that attend the car accidents. Have you even been on scene at a fatal car accident? I cannot fault the RCMP for wanting to prevent accidents and nor should you.

definition of “a real snow drift” is one you are stuck in
just saying

“No doubt they can ramp this up, however it gives you a good indication of what equipment and rentals they have available”. Pretty hard to ramp up when operators have a bee in their bonnet and won’t work overtime. Kind of interesting hearing them try to get guys to stay late last night. Sure were a lot of “drs appointments” going on last night. Just a coincidence with the strike mandate I’m sure.

A snow drift is one driven by wind, not one placed by humans by any kind of machine. Snow drifts are typical during blizzard conditions .. something we do not get in PG … more a prairies condition as well as parts of Central and Eastern Canada.

They resemble sand dunes and are formed in a similar manner.

This is a PEI snowdrift
http://peicanada.com/sites/default/files/images/Chantcarsnowweb.jpg

Too many people seem to come from lotusland here. LOL

Heyyy Mayor Greene… Give Loki a job in the Communications Dept.. He would fit in quite well within your team..

All for Loki at City Hall.. say yaa

2 metre high fence adjacent to open fields in Lethbridge …. makes the perfect snowfence … stacks up 2 metres of snow depth in people’s back yards ….. LOL
http://mynews.ctvnews.ca/mediadetail/539939-No-ordinary-snow-drift?groupId=11057&uid=&sort=votecount%20DESC&offset=23

slinky: “Be very careful who you let shovel your driveway, same as anyone doing work on your house – they are required to have a WCB number or you have to get one for them. Check out the rules at WorksafeBC”

I doubt some 14 year old kid is going to have a WCB number, let alone anyone who comes to your door to shovel your driveway.

Kids come around here (on the Hart, near Kelly Road School) offering to shovel snow from time to time. What would really be handy would be a way for people who want their snow shovelled to contact people willing to do it as they don’t come around all that frequently.

Calgary has a similar snowstorm problem at the moment. Interesting to note that vehicles parked on streets (not allowed to park overnight when snowclearing is in progress) and obviously stuck in snowdrifts are removed from the street free of charge.
http://globalnews.ca/video/1019736/northeast-snow-drift-towing

“What would really be handy would be a way for people who want their snow shovelled to contact people willing to do it as they don’t come around all that frequently.”

The way is called eyes and mouth. Look to see who is walking to school in the morning or in the afternoon, preferably well before the winter, and ask.

We had and have next door neighbours who are younger and willing to do it. In return we have a large driveway with one car …. so they can park the car in the driveway instead of the street.

Many different ways. Think … then pick one.

Make up a sign and stick it into the snow. That way kids do not have to go around door to door.

Lets make that real easy: If you don’t have the Money for proper Tires in the Winter “Just don’t drive in the Winter”. What will be the next excuse “I have no Money to get my Brakes fixed” .
I don’t make the Rules, some I don’t even like, but I have to abide or pay for it!

There are indeed a variety of ways to get your snow shoveled, but most of them are less than optimal. Putting out a sign or calling out to passersby is likely to work well in a neighbourhood with lots of kids of the right age passing by, but not otherwise. Sometimes you can arrange it in advance, but people don’t always know the right neighbours, or may only want assistance after a heavy snowfall or if they are sick or working a heavy schedule.

Honestly people I know winter tires are expensive it is a world of difference and sorry to say it should be manditory for up here.

Maybe the city of PG could put together a service to help out those people who need assistance with snow removal. Something like this perhaps:

http://ottawa.ca/en/residents/social-services/seniors/get-help-clearing-snow

Quesnel has 122 KM of Roads and Lanes. They usually have all snow removed from the streets within 12 to 14 Hours. They usually have their sidewalks clear of snow within 12 Hours.

Some streets are part of the Highway System and are plowed by the BC Government Contractor. In addition Quesnel also clears the windrows in driveways. Most snow is plowed to the middle of the street and then blown into trucks and removed. Just like we used to do in Prince George until they started to put in all the useless medians.

I think that rather than go to China to learn about Winter Cities, and how to handle snow, perhaps we should have gone to Quesnel.

Not fair to compare Quesnel to Prince George because of the huge difference in area, roads, etc;, however we could learn from them.

I’m not asking questions because I’m too cheap to buy snow tires. I’m asking because I want to know what new BS excuse cops can use to fine/impound.

Four wheel drive or all wheel drive vehicles should be allowed all season radials all year. You can’t tell me a 2 wheel drive car with snow tires has better traction than a 4×4 with all seasons. I’ve only ever used all seasons year round and have never had a problem.

After buying aggressive all-terrains on new rims for my truck, I ended up buying studded winters for my stock rims. I’m never going back to all-seasons, the difference is amazing. After the first winter with them on, my boyfriend, his brother and his dad all run them on their trucks as well.

“have never had a problem”,
the operative in that statement should, “yet”

To buzzinga—you are referring to the ‘gate’ they used to drop down at a driveway. Seems the union types were upset–after all why use 1 piece of equipment; when you can use 2 and 2 drivers(notice I didn’t call they operators!!)
thats my take on it; but it sure works in other ‘towns’.

remember: all-terrains are not the same as all-seasons. all-terrains are for varied terrain ranging from urban to rural. They will not go mud bogging, but they are better in gravel roads and hard pack.

I think that is part of the problem, There are so many terms, some of which are interchangeable, that the average vehicle operator does not have the knowledge to tell the difference or what is actually correct. I am not a mechanic, but am fairly knowledgeable due to life experience. Many urbanites don’t have the benefit of that experience and think that everywhere should be clean swept 24/7/365.

Travel off-highway any amount and you will soon discover where I am coming from.

I know all-terrains are not the same as an all-season, which is why I also bought dedicated studded winters. I do a lot of off-road driving and needed something more agressive than an all-season.
If I ever get hit by an idiot running all-terrains/mud-terrains/etc in the winter the first thing I’m doing is taking pictures of their tires.

I helped push a woman today who was stuck in the snow in one of those low slung mid size sedans. She had winter tires on.

I have seen several cars around town spinning their wheels and they’ve had winter rims on.

Remember, it’s not all about the tires. It’s about the vehicle as well.

just driving around I can’t help but think that the city snow clearers are possibly doing a sub-par job on purpose, related to their imminent job action. It stopped snowing hard about 18 hours ago. from what I drove on, winnipeg street in front of a large school has not been touched. queensway, at least near connaught hill, looks like it hasn’t been touched. 10th ave looks like a mine field. the hospital area looks good, completely bare. Now, I’m not an idiot (hope not) that expects side roads to be plowed already. in fact, i never expect my road to be plowed (and it rarely is). but come on! i saw a bus near spruceland starting to go sideways this afternoon after getting caught in some major ruts. a bus! on a bus route!

i’m just hoping my car will make it home today. the good news is that tabor mountain is opening tomorrow and purden will be amazing if you’re headed out there! woohoo!

Ntkr 13 can you back up your statement?

Contractors, what do they do with their equipment when it ain’t snowing.

“You can’t tell me a 2 wheel drive car with snow tires has better traction than a 4×4 with all seasons.”

==================================

For what it’s worth, I found that my wife’s VW’s with winter tires, traction and stability control felt better in winter driving conditions than my truck with 4WD. I think part of that is just due to the fact that those cars were FAR better handling vehicles than any truck I’ve ever driven (due to obvious reasons).

The only advantage to my truck over the cars with winters, and this is a big one, were those situations were I needed the extra ground clearance that it afforded. On roads anywhere close to being reasonably maintained, the car was never a penalty.

Truth be told, my 4WD got far more use pulling my boat out of questionable launches than it did in the winter.

A new first for PG. Damano is so rough someone lost their canopy off their truck near the Esso station and decided to just leave it there.

Maybe Green, Jones, and Gaal are just preparing us for pot hole season.

It’s not just about tires, vehicles although without the proper gear in this kind of terrain it is almost impossible to drive the side streets, without slamming into a rut that forces your vehicle into a snowbank on the middle of the road or something else even if you are doing 15kms, If in a perfect Prince George, this bs of out of controll snow removal would have been dealt with the very night it started and would have been easier to maintain. I do have a 4×4 and I do have studded brand new freakin tires, and I still get tossed around by un kept disgraceful roads.

Over 2000 cold and smow records in the US this week compared to 98 high temperature records and 141 high minimum temperature records.

About all the talk about tires it seems the biggest problem is low slung cars snow tires or not. This is the north after all. I will give you a wave as I motor by.

Dealing with the snow night it started! Say what, so you cleared your driveway the first night and haven’t needed to touch it since?

Hey dumb A$$ seamutt:
this bs of out of controll snow removal would have been dealt with the very night it started and would have been easier to maintain..I really don’t know anyone as obtuse as you to assume that you only clean your driveway one time , and then let it go to he!! after that.

Oh my must be off meds.

So tell me how do you clear 500 miles of road in one night with a three day heavy snowfall? You just march down to city hall and tell them what they are doing wrong.

OK to kill endangered birds? Yes if you are a windfarm. Greens seem to be fine with that.

It’s one rule for you, and another for their friends. If a coal plant was wiping out thousands of birds and bats you can be sure Greenpeace would be launching a campaign. But when an industrial turbine with blade-tips travelling at 180mph does the killing, who cares?

http://joannenova.com.au/2013/12/ok-to-kill-endangered-birds-yes-if-you-are-a-windfarm-greens-seem-to-be-fine-with-that/

I owe you an apology: Sorry for printing dumb a$$…..
I feel sorry for you, I didn’t realize you had 500 miles of road to clear. I’m glad I only have a double lane driveway that is about a 1/4 mile. No wonder you need your meds……Happy snow day…….

“So all-seasons are now illegal in winter?”

No!

Who was the ditz walking facing traffic right on the road northbound on Ospika at 4:30 this afternoon?

Agreed JohnnyB. And some winter tires are crap. Small car front wheel drive good tires can go pretty much anywhere (My sons 97 Cavaliet). Toyota SUV that my sister has with good winter tires couldn’t go 2 feet down my street.

Winter tires on a 4×4 or all wheel drive will make it even better. On those vehicles the winter tires aren’t about going, they are about stopping and turning. If you have never run winter tires on you car try it they are freaking amazing. Last year was the first time in 35 years of driving that I put on winter tires. I don’t know why I waited so long!

Winter tires have to have the snowflake/ mountain on them or they aren’t winter tires.

Comment Posted by: ntkr13 on December 13 2013 3:20 PM
To buzzinga—you are referring to the ‘gate’ they used to drop down at a driveway. Seems the union types were upset–after all why use 1 piece of equipment; when you can use 2 and 2 drivers(notice I didn’t call they operators!!)
thats my take on it; but it sure works in other ‘towns’.
——————————————-

What a %&^%^%#$@ crock!

Comment Posted by: Resident on December 13 2013 3:54 PM
A new first for PG. Damano is so rough someone lost their canopy off their truck near the Esso station and decided to just leave it there.

Maybe Green, Jones, and Gaal are just preparing us for pot hole season.
————————————

Yes, I have never seen Domano in such bad condition in the 30 plus yrs I’ve been here. Someone needs to be really ashamed at their management abilities!

Gus , I don’t know how much equipment the city of Quesnel has , but I can tell you they got about the same snowfall we did . And as of noon yesterday that city was flowing like a well oiled machine . The streets were clear and almost all city streets had the berm of snow down the centreline cleared away and crews were working hard at getting the last of it removed . I saw this first hand while I was there . Then sadly I had to return home . Why is it other cities in the north have a much larger budget, more equipment and can have the streets cleared by the tail end of a storm but we cannot ?

Dragonmaster. Your post about the walker on Ospika is somewhat confusing.

Was he walking North facing traffic going South., in which case he is within his rights to do so.

Was he walking South, facing traffic going North?? Again he is allowed to do that.

Or was he walking on the road??? You might have noticed that North of 1st Avenue and Ospika, there are no sidewalks, so of course he is going to walk on the street, hopefully as far left, or right as he can get. Or was he South of 1st and Ospika, where there is a sidewalk on the East side to Fifth Avenue.

PS. How do you know he was a ditz, and what is a ditz, anyway.

Anyone sick of talking about the weather yet??? No? Very well, carry on.

I actually saw the guy lose the canopy off of his truck. I passed by later on around 3:15 and someone had bashed their oil pan in and lost their oil at the same lights.

That isn’t all of it either. Did anyone else notice all of the random pieces of cars laying around on the streets?

I believe it could make for an interesting class action for those who received damage.

PG GIRL, huh?

I spent three hours out doing errands and shopping today. Not one plow or truck was spotted in all the driving I did. This was in CH, downtown (George Street is a mess in front of the Ramada), the mall, Spruceland, by Costco. Try driving down Rainbow Drive. Its just ridiculous and simply embarrassing.

“If you don’t have the Money for proper Tires in the Winter “Just don’t drive in the Winter””

Tell you what. If you have a hard time driving without winter tires in the winter, you are not likely from snow country but from lotusland.

If you do not have the money for winter tires, keep them on all year. They have better grip in the summer as well. They will likely wear out a bit faster, but the grip on pavement is fantastic.

Hydroplaning? What hydroplaning?

When I went for a walk today, I watched a streetsweeper picking up some of the last leaves from the fall.

snow? what snow?

140 comments … wow … this makes it 141.