Just about every one of them smiling, as they bite the hand that feeds them “well”!

Hang in there city CUPE workers….the majority of Prince George is behind you…Green has to go..

They are smiling because they are putting the squeeze on Green…didn’t she run her election campaign around squeezed lemons or was that squeezed limes ;)

The local paper says it is only for one day! After that it is back to work and work to rule.

Nothing funny about any of this, no matter what “side” you may agree with. It is sad for kids recreation and the community everywhere. Also probably a bummer for some members that work hard and probably don’t want the bad publicity . This could get us some goofy publicity and get ugly

If they don’t have the gonads to go on a real strike then lock the gates till matter is settled. Issue 72 hour lock-out notice 8am Monday morning.

stay strong cupe workers. if the mayor and her team could manage this wouldn’t be happening.
just saying

ohh shut up and quit yer whining… More responsibilities??/ we haven’t been able to get a raise for sometime and we are doing more.
I’d understand it if services were up to par to match the pay but every time I go to City hall, I have to wait for staff to finish chatting with each other.

Maybe with this strike, the taxpayers would be able to save some money by reduced costs next year. I know… I’m dreaming

Yep Green that is quite a legacy you will have. You must be proud in some misguided way. Not getting much value from your high priced lawyer or communicator. Yep taxpayer money well spent.

Green gets her place in PG history! Bravo!

You are right checkitout, the poor kids might have to go outside and play. The majority work hard just like anywhere else.

Work to rule sounds great! All call in sick Monday morning and take one of those sick days!

Crossing a picket line is an individual choice.

Not sure why Janet Bigelow thinks that its necessary to issue a special pass to cross the picket line, unless she feels that people tending their animals could be harassed in some way.

There it is “no way” did you ever put together that out of town people come to enjoy and spend money in these facilities. That’s lost revenue as well. Oh ya, cupe thinks money just falls off the tree

Stand your ground City. And for the rest of the public remember the promise of 10/10/ and 10 cuts in every department of the City in mayor Green’s most money ever spent in PG history election campaign. What Mayor Green meant your car will need to be replaced 10% sooner to the delight of Wood Wheaton and the other car dealers. Parking rates increase 120% wage increases for Mayor and council. 60% increase for City administration budget. Useless tax paid trips to China. The Boundary road dyke waist of money. Haldi Road rezoning legal fee’s. allegations of conflict of interest. Remember this in the next election but hopefully Green will be smart enough not to even run. Wishful thinking.

rabble rabble…. rabblerabblerabble

meant to say stand your ground City workers.

Can someone please explain what they want again? The percentages that were offered and what the percentages they want?

You should have ‘meant’ to say a lot of different things 007, because you got a bunch of erroneous information there. Do you care?

First, why don’t you just say 10% cuts instead of stating “10/10 and 10.” Trying to be clever? It didn’t work.

Why do you think the Mayor wants you to replace your car 10% sooner? Would you be referring to the condition of the roads? Well, under the current Council, the road rehabilitation budget has now been raised to $7 million.

60% increase to City’s administration budget? Don’t you mean the city manager’s budget, which was explained as the moving of some position to that department from other departments.

Boundary Road dike? I wasn’t aware that they built a dike along boundary road. News to me.

Ease up on the sauce buddy.

I work for the streets division at the City of Prince George and can state clearly, and without doubt, that the single most important issue for us is job security.
We do not want to go back to the days of twice early lay-offs.
Speaking for my own situation, having spent almost 20 years driving line haul, I finally have a position that allows me to sleep in my own bed every night.
I can’t put a price on that.
I also know that my years of accident free, on time professional highway driving would allow me to make much more money elsewhere.

“…… the reality is, with all the job cuts over the past year, many are being called upon to carry those extra responsibilities which take extra time, and there has been no compensation. That’s just not right”

So, learning to be more efficient at doing something is “just not right”.

Are the union jobs not all or mostly fixed number of hours per day or shift? I thought people who earn wages get paid by the hour and, if they work overtime they get paid for that. By the same token, excluded staff were on salary and typically had a job description for what had to be done and were given a fixed salary for that no matter how long it took to get the job done.

So, perhaps we can learn a lesson from the sawmill and forestry industry, create an improved process of getting the job done and not replace those who retire or move or simply quit, but teach those who stay behind how to improve their efficiency through improved work practices.

I feel sad for the people who work for our postal system , at least the City workers still have Jobs.

Way to go Shari Green another the long line of disappointments you have made for the City of Prince George. I think a lot of people will be happy to see you move at the end of your term.

few of these posts cutting down unions always saying I can get it cheaper elsewhere the contractor doesn’t work cheap anymore it costs money to run a city weather it be union or non union granted the negotiated wage tallies up but not at a rate that management gets ive said it before if you don’t like the wage you are getting move on find something better but quit worrying what peter, paul, and mary are making at least they don’t have to worry about management taking away their overtime pay

“…..the single most important issue for us is job security.”

No doubt. There is, however, a difference between job security for those who currently hold the jobs, and job position retention when an individual should move, quit or retire.

An employer should be able to make changes, whether that involves re-arranging functional work units, adding workers, training and promoting workers, as well as laying workers off.

It is the latter which should be handled with more care and consideration of options for both parties.

“teach those who stay behind how to improve their efficiency through improved work practices.”

So audit the core processes of the system, eliminate duplication and inefficiency to increase productivity. Could be done internally and be called a Core Review for lack of a better title;)

“….. at least they don’t have to worry about management taking away their overtime pay”

So is that what this is also about, overtime pay?

“the negotiated wage tallies up but not at a rate that management gets”

Whenever we are lucky enough to see union wages anywhere we do not see the whole picture. Neither do we get to see the whole picture with management pay. Not all of them make more than $75,000/year.

So, let someone like the City give us the total annual payroll figure for included staff plus the total annual payroll figure for excluded staff. Then provide that for us over the last 5 years. I do not know how it will look, but it sure would be interesting to see some factual information rather than all this conjecture.

touché lonesome sparrow …. LOL

Robert Waite: thank you for adding your personal, first hand experience, and thoughts/opinions on this post.
Our house-hold believes in what you guys are doing and support you all the way.

Too many people post here without any idea or only think they know a little about a lot. ie: Gus states: “I thought people who…..”

I guess that’s my point. If you don’t know then don’t keep posting; just because you “thought” you knew something about this or that !!

Keep up the good work streets crews and all other CUPE staff inside and out !! Hang in there.

An example of position retention from Detroit….

“While the city population has shrunk, it has hardly reduced the government that serves it. All you really need to know about Detroit, which is facing a $327 million budget gap, is that last year it was discovered to still be paying for a “horseshoer” (or farrier) on the Detroit Water & Sewer Department payroll. This individual costs some $56,000 in pay and benefits, despite the city not having any horses to shoe in his department.”

Re; checkitout – “Just about every one of them smiling, as they bite the hand that feeds them”!

They are not biting the hand that feeds them. The hand that feeds them has been slapping them in the face.

They have a democratic right to this strike action and the city is responsible for lost revenues not the CUPE members.

The city continues to want to spend BIG money on things PG doesn’t need yet they say they have no money for their own workers.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the workers get next to nothing only to see city council vote to raise their own pay in the new year.

Good luck to all CUPE members.

Those kids that cant swim, or skate today, might understand the importance of a good job when they grow up and have a family to support. Some of them might even work for the city.
Most PPL are behind you, just be realistic.

Newtechie, you just mentioned what really ticks me off, they are getting slapped in the face! Gimme a break! It is all about greed with some union mentality. Our city workers are doing just fine by talking to my neighbours and a ton of friends who work there. I live beside a few that have just about as nice of a lifestyle as me; but they retire after a measly 20 yrs with a nice cheque ! This stuff about wasted spending etc , so we want more when we see that! I have never been to any of the facilities that come out of our taxes, but other people do. Good for others to enjoy. I’m gonna like to see job creation from building art gallerys etc. i can get over the amount of taxes i see get spent elsewhere on crap i don’t like, somewhere , somebody gets a job. Like another cupe member! I would also add that some (not a lot) shouldn’t be bragging to people about how they have a job with the city and hump the dog all day. I have witnessed a lot of them that really work hard

let’s see, Sine Nomine you add one new communications director at $150,000 a year, plus up to two other communication officers, at say $80,000 each, and then you add a deputy corporate officer at say $100,000. That adds up to $400 grand. Now tell me from which departments are they coming from so that we can swift that money the city managers budget. Oh that $400,000 grand that she needs, surprise its in her budget. Which shell is the shifting from this department to that department under so we can find those savings of up to 10%.

makeitstop!!, finish the sentence. It helps to make sure you are not taking something out of context.

My full sentence was: “I thought people who earn wages get paid by the hour and, if they work overtime they get paid for that.”

The “I thought” part of it was tongue in cheek. Even though I thought it, as it was in my thoughts, I knew the thought to be an accurate one since I had downloaded schedules A, B and C of the collective agreement of inside and outside workers some time ago. All three have rates shown for hourly wages ranging right up to over $40/hour for a 37.5 hour work week. That gets it up to the $80,000/year category for those who are typically in the “professional” category. Not exactly peanuts. Add a few hours of overtime onto it, and they are quickly close to the $100,000 a year category.

I know, we really do not want to speak about them, do we?

Chechitout.. With tons of your friends from the city retiring after 20 yrs then you must be close to retiring too.. But you said they have almost as nice a lifestyle as you.. So you can retire after …15 yrs.. Maybe 18. What kind if nice cheque are you talking about that they get? I don’t know any union workers that get a nice big fat cheque when they retire.

With all your generalizations with no real numbers I would bet you are on santas naughty list.

I am behind the strike.. Can’t raise taxes and fees the way our worst mayor ever has then say no to a wage increase for city workers .. They just want to keep up to inflation.. You say there is no money, then you keep talking about having money for a PAC, more money somewhere to cover the increase in hydro etc. pathetic lady..

Comment Posted by: Sine Nomine on December 14 2013 1:03 PM

You should have ‘meant’ to say a lot of different things 007, because you got a bunch of erroneous information there. Do you care?

You seem smarter than the rest? Guess you are one of these political correct, self centered, type A. Read it again and tell us readers what you really think.

My guess is you would vote for a Ford type. LOL

“I wouldn’t be surprised if the workers get next to nothing only to see city council vote to raise their own pay in the new year.”

NEWS FLASH!!!!!!

You have not seen the recommendation to Council from the group headed by Dave Yarmish that was approved by the last Council to raise the level of compensation for Councillors, to hold the line for Mayor and to put in a formula to determine the annual automatic raises for Councillors and Mayor.

THEY DO NOT HAVE TO VOTE. IT IS AUTOMATIC!!!

I know, I know, these things are all far to difficult to keep up with. One has to become a professional Council Watcher. Guard the chicken coop from the fox ….. ;-)

“I wouldn’t be surprised if the workers get next to nothing”

After 5 years of 3%, almost anything that is not equal to that is “next to nothing”.

The problem, as I see it, is that the only way to get a merit increment based on work one actually does is to get promoted to a new job classification. Annual increment are automatic having absolutely zilch to do with merit. At leas other unionized workers, such as faculty at the colleges, teachers, etc. get stepped increases in around 10 steps plus cola increases. The merit steps are almost automatic. On special cases they may be double steps for outstanding performance.

There is no such incentive in the CUPE system with municipalities. No wonder some workers might be complacent! There is very little incentive.

“They just want to keep up to inflation”

Inflation has not reached 3% in any of the past 5 years of the contract!!!!!

They are doing better than inflation!!!!

What about the tax dollars that are being spent by the City to hire a Security Company & Private investigators to watch the picket lines all day long!!! all lot of money being spent at each location watching the picket lines, it could be better spent elsewhere. The City should at the bargaining table.

Canadian rate of inflation over the life of the last agreement.

2008 2.4%
2009 0.3%
2010 1.8%
2011 2.9%
2012 1.5%

The simple additive total is 8.9% versus 15%. Not bad for keeping up with inflation. I would love to keep up with inflation like that as well.

someone else can look up the BC rate.

grant bain form planning left and was not replaced

dan milburn left and was replaced by the real estate manager to do two jobs … or something like that

radloff left and was not replaced to the best of my knowledge …..

I am sure others can think of some more.

City Hires – Security Company & Private investigators to watch the picket lines all day long!!! The City should be at the bargaining table. Tax Payers dollars at work again. Get back to the table and bargain.

Remember it was City that Bargained the last contract as well, they felt it was fair or they wouldn’t have put their name to it as well.

Security and private investigators to watch picketers. I guess so; I seen that ruly mob of union activists waving and smiling at the public today. That is totally contrary to the new culture that Queen Green and the new City Sherriff are working so hard on to establish. Shame on those picketers for smiling and waving.

A little off topic but went for a drive last night to look at lights on candy cane lane. the streets were absolutly horbale. Whoever is responsable for street cleaning should be hung by the gonades. All the work these people put in & the pride they take on putting a bright side in this city I would of thought this area would HIGH priority. SHAME SHAME SHAME

Private investigators? Come on, now you’re just being silly. Ridiculous.

Posted by: Robert Waite on December 14 2013 1:28 PM
I work for the streets division at the City of Prince George and can state clearly, and without doubt, that the single most important issue for us is job security.

————–

If you want job security make yourself irreplaceable and indispensable to your employer.

We can’t afford to keep the chaff on staff.

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All of our staff are licensed and ready for deployment on extremely short notice.

Kojack, do they supply M16’s and smoke grenades too?

Love when you type stuff up and it doesn’t post…

Lets set the record straight

* City snow removal per Shari is 12 cm
* Essential snow removal mandated by the government is 7.5 cm

1.6 times we are waiting 1.6 times longer normally to plow snow thanks to our mayor.

Nice to know that she will waste money on a PAC, Library steps, 200k on a garden behind the library, etc…

But when it comes to our safety and comfort we are waiting 1.6 times LONGER than what an essential services mandate is!

*Opinion 250 is a mildly left wing site. It is accurate in its reporting, and has minimal bias.

*The citizen and CKPG are heavily right wing, they are literally mandated to not print anything but positive stories about local government. Trust half of what you see and a quarter of what you read from them.

*Gus, axman, palopu, sime nom, etc are all clearly on the far right as well. Very opinionated, they like to straw man your position and take things out of context. (Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised to see that they all directly personally stand to benefit from things being contracted out)

*Palopu – As for crossing picket lines, you as a clearly non-union member are free to do so.

If the people who own horses are in a union they need permission to cross, because failure to do so could result in their union fining them, suspending them, or terminating their position.

CUPE is offering passes for those people who are in a situation where crossing a picket line is not a choice.

Obviously CUPE would never do anything to endanger an animal.

I do feel certain that CUPE national is using them to secure a deal that will be a more favourable reference point for their other locals.

*Gold Rush – City offered 0/0/2/2

Union offer I am not aware of, they haven’t been airing any information in the media

The sticking point doesn’t seem to be wages, it seems to be job security, Union workers want to know they have a job in three months time.

They have already given up sick days and some benefits for no gain.

The lawyer is costing us tax payers 250-500k. Her words to the union at the start was that it will be a cold day in **** before they get anything.

The city has been bargaining in bad faith which, as I understand my labour law, is illegal and has historically ended poorly for that side. You have to enter into the talks with a reasonable give and take, it can’t be a hold the line from the get go.

*Gus
Those workers making 75k a year that are not management are doing so through countless overtime hours.

Show me one position paying 40/hour with the union, I have been watching and the best ones are 33-35/hour for the trades and management positions.

If you contract out work the company doing the contracting will charge you twice what it pays its workers

Trades guys will be making 35-40 / hour with the contractor, you will be paying 70-80 for them. Then they tag on the vehicles, the materials at ++, tools and equipment. And you quickly are paying two to four times the same cost for the same work.

Now comes the problem. Why should they fix something when it breaks, when they can wait until a lot of things have broken and then send up some guys to fix them all at once (and these won’t be local guys, they will be lower mainland or out of BC workers).

So we wait months for a job to get done for things that we pay our tax dollars towards to work. And for the perk of not having it done in a timely fashion we will be paying MUCH more for the same cost.

The reason the last contract they got was 3% for 5 years was because it was negotiated as such, based on the fact that at the time inflation was expected to be 2.5-3% a year. I’m sorry your 20-20 hindsight is awesome, you should either quit your day job and become a stock broker or you know don’t.

The fact that BOTH sides agreed to it makes it a non-issue.

Just like when this one comes to a close it will be whatever it will be. The only issue is that for the remainder of Green’s term the bad blood will be around.

*Kojack
I have also heard about people being brought to town to work as security… Why they can’t hire locally for this, or why it needs to happen at all I am at a loss for words with.

Well my family, my friends, my co-workers, and myself all support the CUPE workers.

Love when you type stuff up and it doesn’t post…

Lets set the record straight

* City snow removal per Shari is 12 cm
* Essential snow removal mandated by the government is 7.5 cm

1.6 times we are waiting 1.6 times longer normally to plow snow thanks to our mayor.

Nice to know that she will waste money on a PAC, Library steps, 200k on a garden behind the library, etc…

But when it comes to our safety and comfort we are waiting 1.6 times LONGER than what an essential services mandate is!

*Opinion 250 is a mildly left wing site. It is accurate in its reporting, and has minimal bias.

*The citizen and CKPG are heavily right wing, they are literally mandated to not print anything but positive stories about local government. Trust half of what you see and a quarter of what you read from them.

*Gus, axman, palopu, sime nom, etc are all clearly on the far right as well. Very opinionated, they like to straw man your position and take things out of context. (Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised to see that they all directly personally stand to benefit from things being contracted out)

*Palopu – As for crossing picket lines, you as a clearly non-union member are free to do so.

If the people who own horses are in a union they need permission to cross, because failure to do so could result in their union fining them, suspending them, or terminating their position.

CUPE is offering passes for those people who are in a situation where crossing a picket line is not a choice.

Obviously CUPE would never do anything to endanger an animal.

I do feel certain that CUPE national is using them to secure a deal that will be a more favourable reference point for their other locals.

*Gold Rush – City offered 0/0/2/2

Union offer I am not aware of, they haven’t been airing any information in the media

The sticking point doesn’t seem to be wages, it seems to be job security, Union workers want to know they have a job in three months time.

They have already given up sick days and some benefits for no gain.

The lawyer is costing us tax payers 250-500k. Her words to the union at the start was that it will be a cold day in **** before they get anything.

The city has been bargaining in bad faith which, as I understand my labour law, is illegal and has historically ended poorly for that side. You have to enter into the talks with a reasonable give and take, it can’t be a hold the line from the get go.

*Gus
Those workers making 75k a year that are not management are doing so through countless overtime hours.

Show me one position paying 40/hour with the union, I have been watching and the best ones are 33-35/hour for the trades and management positions.

If you contract out work the company doing the contracting will charge you twice what it pays its workers

Trades guys will be making 35-40 / hour with the contractor, you will be paying 70-80 for them. Then they tag on the vehicles, the materials at ++, tools and equipment. And you quickly are paying two to four times the same cost for the same work.

Now comes the problem. Why should they fix something when it breaks, when they can wait until a lot of things have broken and then send up some guys to fix them all at once (and these won’t be local guys, they will be lower mainland or out of BC workers).

So we wait months for a job to get done for things that we pay our tax dollars towards to work. And for the perk of not having it done in a timely fashion we will be paying MUCH more for the same cost.

The reason the last contract they got was 3% for 5 years was because it was negotiated as such, based on the fact that at the time inflation was expected to be 2.5-3% a year. I’m sorry your 20-20 hindsight is awesome, you should either quit your day job and become a stock broker or you know don’t.

The fact that BOTH sides agreed to it makes it a non-issue.

Just like when this one comes to a close it will be whatever it will be. The only issue is that for the remainder of Green’s term the bad blood will be around.

*Kojack
I have also heard about people being brought to town to work as security… Why they can’t hire locally for this, or why it needs to happen at all I am at a loss for words with.

Well my family, my friends, my co-workers, and myself all support the CUPE workers.

Can’t be that informed…it did post…three times:P

============================================
“do they supply M16’s and smoke grenades too?” By the looks of the picture above it should not be necessary as some of them appear to have a chair permanently attached to their backside:D

“Opinion 250 is a mildly left wing site”

===================================

LOL!

“*Opinion 250 is a mildly left wing site. It is accurate in its reporting, and has minimal bias”

You discredited your ENTIRE post with this statement. LOL. Minimal bias…HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I thought job security is having workplace violence and shootings at work in the form of newspaper clippings strategically placed around yer work area.

“Show me one position paying 40/hour with the union, I have been watching and the best ones are 33-35/hour for the trades and management positions.”

Oka … hopefully I can do better than just one …. otherwise I would not consider myself to be well informed … ;-)
————————————–

Jan 1/12 post probation wages/salaries for 37.5 hour weeks

Chief Building Inspector $42.19 $82,552.08
Senior Planner$42.19 $82,552.08

Programmer/Analyst $40.24 $78,736.56
Senior Building Inspector$40.24 $78,736.56

Those are the 4 (not 1) that are $40/hr+

———————————-
These are the ones above the $35 you could not find …..

GIS Coordinator$39.07 $76,447.32

Environmental Coordinator $37.38 $73,140.48
Long Range/Parks Planner$37.38 $73,140.48
Planner 2$37.38 $73,140.48
Property Agent$37.38 $73,140.48

Court Coordinator$36.15 $70,733.76
Engineering Assistant$36.15 $70,733.76
GIS Analyst$36.15 $70,733.76
Programmer Analyst$36.15 $70,733.76
Technical Support Specialist $36.15 $70,733.76

Court Liaison$35.21 $68,894.52
Park Designer$35.21 $68,894.52
Planner 1$35.21 $68,894.52
Urban Forester $35.21 $68,894.52

So that is 14 positions between $35 and $40/hour.

And, of course, there will typically be more than one position for those categories

So, before you post under the pen name of “informed” how about making sure you can actually live up to that name ….

BTW, those positions can be found under Schedule C of the inside workers agreement.

Posted by: Sine Nomine on December 14 2013 3:08 PM
Scott Bone Manager “retired”
Chris Bone Manager “?gone”
All other communications staff gone ?
several other CUPE staff laid off?
Seems that starts to free up some money to me… and who knows what else has gone on there that we don’t know about. Maybe when they get some communications staff in place there they will tell us.

Sine Nomine: I agree with your last comments, but I really wish people would stop referring to staff being FIRED as retired, gone or laid off. They were fired.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m totally on the union side, but like Sine Nomine says, who knows what else has gone on that we don’t know about.

Informed
“If you contract out work the company doing the contracting will charge you twice what it pays its workers”

“Trades guys will be making 35-40 / hour with the contractor, you will be paying 70-80 for them. Then they tag on the vehicles, the materials at ++, tools and equipment. And you quickly are paying two to four times the same cost for the same work.”

You fail to take into account the need for the city to provide vehicles and tools and equipment for their workers to perform the job. Plus once the job is done these boys are no longer on the payroll looking for a good parking lot to park in to kill the rest of the day.

That said there is a need to have your own workforce so you don’t have to wait until next tuesday to get something done, but the costs in the long run are usually cheaper with contracting out. The track record of contracting things out for this city are not all that rosy, like 14k for 300 phone calls or paying some contractor 575 bucks to count pedestrians for 8 hours – just wonder why noone from CUPE on city payroll could count pedestrians for 8 hours, maybe too technical or the 24 kms was too far for the Leaf?

“Engineering Assistant” if the assistant makes $36/hr, I wonder what the actual engineer makes? Or is that contracted out and we pay to give the contractor a “helping” hand.

Mayor Green the Dictator and the useless Thing called a City Manager (Hand picked by Green for just such a situation as contract negotiations) have brought this sad state to the city of PG. You have my Full support CUPE workers as everyone deserves a fair settlement!!

It is fact!!!! They are Real!!!

Make no mistake, Shari QUEEN Green has her eye on Provincial politics and is gonna use the city of PG workers to build her “rep” on. She is the only Mayor this City has EVER had that insisted on hiring her own personal assistant with NO input from HR or anyone else for that matter. She insisted that she have her own 24 hr reserved parking space in front of City hall and if anyone parks there she wants them TOWED immediately (even during a spruce kings game). THIS folks is the real reason CUPE has HAD no other option but to strike….all the whiners and moaners that bitch about “Their” taxes have no real clue what is going on at City Hall!!

ICM Contact Information – Feel Free to Call

Headquarters
3675 W 11 Ave
Vancouver, British Columbia
Canada, V6R 2K4
Phone: (604) 688-0070
Fax: (604) 688-0970
Toll Free: 1-877-988-0070
Website: http://icmsecurity.com
Email: info@icmsecurity.com

Absolutely CrysBaron, you are 100% right. This has nothing to do with money. It is a power struggle. Shari has already shown she has no regard for the taxpayers money and does not care what they thing.

She has to go before this city is destroyed.

CF18 that is awesome. You beat me to it.

Oh I’m sorry lonesome did you know that hitting refresh after posting would repost your comment…

Actually considering how your one of …. who haunt this site you probably did.

Have you actually seen a liberal left wing anything? This site if far from it, it does have leftist bias but its no where near anything more than mild.

Refusing to run stories, refusing to take information ads that reveal local government mismanagement, that is bias, that is a lean to one side, like the one side you lean to.

*Gus

I’m interested in your source, considering the CoPG website only lists the annual you must have a CoPG / cupe contract handy? Or did I miss something in that nightmare of a place they call a website.

It is entirely possible that the salary websites that list the information I have been looking at are incorrect. I was going off of, but if you have access to information the rest of us don’t please do share the actual source.

This was what I was going off of…

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/City-of-Prince-George-British-Columbia-Salaries-E481571.htm

I’ll trust that without a source your numbers are right though. I’ll bow out of this one as I am quite possibly wrong.

As for the hiring of people like Kojack says I’m not sure what the company is but Shari did indeed bring people who don’t live anywhere near PG in for that express purpose.

And you sir are no centrist, your leaning is quite plain to see to the right.

yes I do take into account that the city has vehicles to use and materials for cost. That is why the city has its own stores department to keep the costs on materials down. When city workers are used for a job they don’t charge a markup on materials, wholesalers give the city a discount just like the contractors.

Just throwing numbers here for the sake of it…

If it costs 40 dollars for a man / hour, 300 for parts, and a vehicle to get there.

City union charges – 40 dollars / hour, charges 300 for parts, and then the tax payer has to foot for the gas and maintaining the vehicle. Which per job isn’t very much.

City worker completes the job, moves on to the next one.

Contractor charges – 80 dollars / hour for the guy, 450 for parts, and 100+ dollars an hour for a vehicle.

Contract worker charges minimum 2 hour call out (probably 4), finishes the job, and moves on to the next one only to do the same deal again.

I’ve mechanic friends who get paid in excess of 30 hours a day simply by doing the repair work quickly, and the work is charged at a flat rate of it takes X hours to do it. No one in their right mind would be that slow ever, but that is what its charged as.

Another example of this is one of my friends working as a service mechanic for one of the mines

He makes just over 90 dollars an hour, some 40 for his wage and some 50 for having his own work truck.

If they bring in a contracted guy to work on things (aka they are swamped) they end up paying 300 / hour to have that guy there. Minimum 4 hour call out.

That is the kind of rampant “cost savings” I want to see my money go towards

I would like it if Gus could tell us how much they are paying that lawyer to negotiate for the city?? He seems to have a handle on what everyone else is getting paid.

Is it really $1000 per hour plus expenses???

Ben please find out how much us tax payers are paying for the security goons!

Informed.

Wrong. I stand to gain nothing from this issue between Union and Management at City Hall.

I have over the years worked both sides of the fence, ie; Union and Management, and in m

y opinion they both suck.

We are now at the point in Prince George where low income people who make $40,000.00 per year or less, are paying more in taxes to pay increase’s to Union and Management staff.

Seems to me this is BS. It reminds me of the statement attributed to Marie Antoinette **Let them eat cake** Cake at that time was the word for excrement.

In my humble opinion City Managers, and Union people have to come to terms with reality. We can no longer afford to support all these demands, or projects, or spending screw ups, etc;

Time to take a break, and enjoy what you have.

(un)Informed

You really are just pulling numbers out of some dark place. If the city brings in a mechanic from a dealership such as Finning there will be one hourly rate that includes the mechanic and truck.Not sure what the current rate is but I imagine that it would be in the $120-140/hour range. The cost of the parts would be the same as if the city’s purchasing department bought them.
Added bonus is the job is likely to be finished quicker because of additional training the dealership mechanics receive on the equipment they sell and service.Added added bonus is the workmanship is guaranteed by dealer no charge. If the city mechanic screws something up guess who pays for the second go around?

Will have to call BS on a mechanic billing 30 hours a day!

I saw the security company filming the workers at the Coliseum. Why? They were just waving and carrying signs. Is this normal?

That is how his company works

Tasks are assigned an hour value, if you finish before that time you are still paid that much time for the job.

So if he does a 6 hour job in 3 hours, he gets paid 6, if he then does another 6 hour job in another 3 hours he gets paid for 8 hours regular 2 time and a half and 2 double

so in that instance in 6 hours he has worked 12 (gets paid for 15 too).

The reason being, the customer is billed for that time. Company makes twice what his hourly wage is and the customer pays for the parts.

Because, wouldn’t you know it, companies are in it FOR PROFIT.

Any job they do they will be making a tidy profit off of (and normally profit isn’t a bad word, but for them to intentionally pay more is).

A city shouldn’t be contracting out to FOR PROFIT organizations. That costs ME more money, it costs YOU more money, and it is a BAD idea.

Next if the work environment is poisoned it’s hard to repair. It’s about leadership. It starts with Council, then the new City Manager then Upper Management, Director’s etc. Maybe it’s time for change at many levels.

It’s been my personal experience that if Management or HR is biased and doesn’t treat it’s employees fairly…this is a leadership problem. This applies to public and private sectors. If CUPE wants 1% increase and it’s not about money then what else is causing the strike?

I bet a month’s pay, a look at Management and HR practices may fix many of the issues CUPE seems to be concerned about. I’ve been on both sides of the fence at one time or another…HR can be a big problem in any company if job selection or advancement is “deemed” unfair or unexplainable. I would advise the new City Manager to look there first if she’s looking for a way to repair the CUPE/Management relationship.

I’m curious as well; how much of PG’s labour costs are linked to Management and how much to CUPE workers? I notice that this figure is never publicized by the City Management staff.

Anyone know?

Informed …. consider that you are now better informed on the matter of where to find any collective agreement in BC. The signed versions of the full agreements are there

Labour Relations Board site:
http://www.lrb.bc.ca/cas/cafull.htm

There are very few things one can find on the City Site. Same with CUPE.

Look at some of the other cities.

Huh wrote: “Engineering Assistant” if the assistant makes $36/hr, I wonder what the actual engineer makes?

Engineering Assistant is just a title to a position.

It could be a person with lots of experience but no formal education

It could be a new graduate who is an engineer in training

it could be a P.Eng who has just recently been registered.

It could also be a P.Eng who really does not want to take administrative control and just loves doing the technical stuff.

It could also be a registered engineering technician with lots of experience

as well as a registered engineering technologist with an appropriate level of experience.

The education and experience required for any position at any employer with formal policies and procedures in place typically depends on the position descriptions.

Then there is always the weasel clause … “the “preferred” candidate will have” ….. that leaves management a lot of leeway if needed …..

The part I find hilarious about this entire union vs management vs council/mayor etc., is that five years ago, nobody gave a crap that BOTH parties had to sign the collective agreement in order for it to be binding. Then when the mayor was elected and then immediately started giving themselves all raises and Mayor Green the Taxation Machine started her trips to China and adding new taxes on things and set out with only one bidder to perform the core review…. on it goes,

But now that the union’s contract ran out last December, all of a sudden everybody seems to be all up in arms and flapping their gums about how much the union is wanting, or how much the mayor is taxing us, or that she’s hiring more executive staff than ever on record for a mayor…..

Why do people all of a sudden care? Where were you five, actually six years ago now… and where were you when it was election day – to NOT vote in the Taxation Machine?

Pretty complacent bunch until it looks like somebody is getting more than you!

Almost every single person who has ever looked for a job in their lives, goes job hunting, sees a job they’d like to bid on. They submit their resume, have their job interviews and when offered the job they accept.

It just happens that you ended up working where you do, and the city union workers ended up working where they do. Simple as that people!!

If you are ever so upset about how much they make at the city, and those of you who keep saying ‘if you don’t like your job, or if you don’t think you make enough money then quit’ (referring to city workers) if you’re that upset about how much they make, then the next time there is an opening at city hall bid on a job.

We all make choices. I’d like all of you who are bashing the city workers to state where you work. I’d then like the city union workers to stand over your shoulder and watch you ‘work’. How long your breaks are. Do you sneak home when you shouldn’t? Do you make personal calls when you shouldn’t?

You can’t tell me that all of you city worker bashers haven’t spent quite a bit of YOUR employers time taking about how much the union makes, or what the mayor is up to. With all that’s going on in the media about the entire labour dispute and trips to China etc., and the new city manager….. you’d certainly burn through a coffee or lunch break pretty quick discussing all of it.

So again, please state where you work, and I’m sure there would be plenty of opportunity for others to see just how ‘hard of workers’ you all are! How reliable, how dedicated, and put in an entire full shift without taking even an extra minute on your 10 minute break!!

Yeah right!!

Informed, companies do not bid on contracts at book rates – you get these at shops where the repair time is a book rate of 6 hours and the job can take less labour time if the mechanic has performed the task before and is quicker and knows a few shortcuts.

Contract out work is done on a hourly basis – you think Bob’s Bobcat Service is going to bill the city for 5 hours when he worked 3 because his ‘book’ says the hole should take 5 hours to fill? Check out the records they looked up for Skakun, the truck rate was 60 cents a km – hard to drive it 166km every hour and still do work and that was a direct award contract.

Most contracting out is done by the competitive bid process and is also laid out in the collective agreement. Most agreements allow the city department to put in its own bid even if the call is put out for contracting out bids. Some companies work for cost plus, the costs to do the job are worked out and the company receives a percentage on top for profit.

Hello?

Most people were driven to give a crud about what the city was doing when they started stomping on taxpayers toes and raising tax rates at huge rates compared to inflation. When a recession hits and everyone has to take a step back in pay and all the city does is step forward it gets on people’s nerves.

It is called the straw that broke the camels back, that straw was delivered early 2011 when the BK Bottle Depot was rezoned and a few months later the Kin4 which was approved was taken back to council and quashed in favour of the Kin1 reno. It may have been earlier for other folks but that is when I started to take interest in the goings on of council.

Seniors are hardest hit because their annual amounts do not change at 3% or more but they have to pay for decisions of council and decide to eat or keep the house. We used to be fairly affordable 10 maybe 15 years ago but the dollar amounts I write to the city lately are getting out of control with no end in sight.

What are the benifit costs per hour to the city? Costs like cpp wcb pension ei etc. I know 10 years ago in lumber ind. it was around 28%.