Does the recall legislation allow for the removal of a mayor?

“…… raises this serious question, who actually is running the city, the elected officials or the bureaucrats?”

It is very simple. As with any Board of Directors, whether small or a major corporation with orders of magnitude greater budgets than the small city of PG, the Board of Directors set the direction of the organization while the Staff of the organization establish the procedures required to implement the direction and carry out those procedures.

In a properly functioning organization the governance body knows its limits, as does the administrative body.

In my experience and opinion, there has been far too much micro management by City Council and so that City Managers could not work as effectively as they should have been able to do.

Past City Managers such as Chester Jeffries understood that very well.

One of the indicators of that change over time can be seen when perusing through old newspapers to see how often Jeffries was quoted in the newspaper, versus someone like Derek Bates.

While Beth James may be new at managing the operations of a city, she seems to understand the division of responsibilities and duties of the governance body and the administrative body.

Beth James is setting herself up to succeed rather than fail. We must remember that the successful City Managers of old were at their job for 15+ years, outlasting many Mayor and Councillors.

Council determines where the ship will head next. Administration makes sure it gets there. Weaving across the oceans is not very productive.

Balderdash Gus. Priorities for a city can change by the year and month even. Look what happened when the River Road dyke got shot down by the voters in PG, its no longer a priority as the people had to tell administration to cease and desist before they spent us all broke.

Secrecy has no place in the bureaucracy of a municipality. Councilors are like deputies of the people not members of the board… it is their job to audit city productivity and internal scheming and bring it in front of the people for a proper airing and resolution.

Making choke points in the flow of information is all about control and sanitizing anything long before it ever reaches the light of day… thereby making the democratic process irrelevant as it operates on nothing more than blind luck and propaganda.

Democracy is sometimes ugly. They say Rome fell as a great power when its people no longer had the security, nor the will to debate freely with robust spirit… as the freedom of thought is perceived to be threatened, then the controllers of society gain in strength and from it flows the inequities that ultimately divide societies and lead to decline.

Does this mean that the city manager will sit in the council meetings to answer any questions the councillors may have?
If not, it could take weeks to come up with the answer to a very simple question.
Lets put it to the citizens of this town, how they want the city to run. I mean its getting to the point where a very few people seem to be able to dictate whatever THEY want to a very large number of electorate.
More layers of obfuscation don’t help at all.

I wonder if somehow the councilors were all given a threat of some sort. The fact that all but one (Skakun) voted unanimously in favour of this absurd decision is mind boggling to say the least.

I have no idea why he wasn’t there, I didn’t follow his whereabouts, but was it coincidence or pre-planning that he was away? hmmmmmm

When council sessions were still being conveniently aired on channel #10 I used to watch them frequently and I believe I observed the city manager in attendance and answering questions put to him by the mayor or by council through the mayor. I have no idea how things are being handled now after the sessions are no longer being broadcast on TV.

The problem with your line of thought Gus, is if a new elected council decides to take the City in a total new direction with the backing of the taxpayers they will not be able to do it. The “code of conduct” protects the direction the administration wants to go, not the taxpayers! With this new code does that mean that the City Manager is answerable to the taxpayers, or is she proctected by the code.

Chester Jeffries was a strong City Manager but he worked with taxpayers, council, and Mayor. His door was always open for anyone that wanted to talk to him, even the lowely taxpayer, and you got straight answers from him.

I think that there seems to be a real disconnect between voters and this council. They have certainly given us lots to think about with unpaid taxes by higher-ups in the finance committee, pushing spending on items that were clearly not approved by the voting public, general 180 degree movement from what they said to get voted and on and on. I agree with Gus though that council is a governance board that should be looking at the big picture long range planning for the city.

It’s very challenging to do ‘long range planning’ when you only have a 3 year mandate. And since voters have no patience, they’ll keep voting in new people who will make different long range plans.

It’s a dysfunctional system at best, and everyone is responsible, from mayor and council right on down to the voters.

I think politics is what it is, egos on top of egos and everyone of them thinks they are the center of the universe and can do no wrong. How can it be the fault of the voter when most politicians who are voted in, are usually voted in because of false promises. The are either stupid and naïve to think they can make positive change against the tide wearing rose colored glasses or outright deceivers, either way, not anyone to put confidence in. Just once it would be nice to see a politician be honest and say:
If elected I will raise taxes, cut back on services, throw a few more “user fees” at you, and spend your money like a drunken sailor. Now that’s a politician I could believe in.

Well said, Gus. Eagleone, you are wrong.

Any attempt to stop the Councilors, Mayor, or members of the general public from getting, clear, correct information from City Hall, in a realistic time frame, should be stopped by the Council.

Seems they all signed the **Code** with not much more than a bleep.

I can understand the City Manager wanting to close ranks, and have free rein in running City Hall, and to keep the Councilors at bay as much as possible, however I see this particular **Code** as an emasculating exercise that works great for the Manager, and Mayor, but not so well for Councilors.

To much information to the general public, gets them more involved, which means more pressure on Councilors, which in turn means pressure on administration, which to some degree, stops them from doing what they would like to do.

This City needs to go to a “Ward” system of Government so that individual Councilors have a responsibility to specific areas of citizens. In this way they cannot hide behind each other when it comes to contrary issues.

Furthermore in order for Councilors to effectively represent the people who elected them, they need immediate access to information that will help them to make decisions.

We as Citizens are not getting sufficient information on issues, (especially the alternate point of view) from either the City, or the Press in general. This leaves citizens without enough information to make basic decisions, and over time leads to voter apathy. Tying the hands of Council will only make matters worse, not better.

250 News is probably the only media outlet that actually dissects issues effecting Prince George, and gets them out so that they can be discussed. This of course becomes a little more difficult when the Mayor, and others are **Stonewalling** the media.

Our only defence against being taken to the cleaners on a continual basis by City Hall is media, council, and general public, access to information that effects us. That’s the bottom line, and that’s what our Councilors need to ensure happens.

Perhaps Gus could give us some examples of Councilors Micro Managing City administration.

Actual examples where this has happened would go a long way to supporting his position.

Huh: “I think politics is what it is, egos on top of egos and everyone of them thinks they are the center of the universe and can do no wrong. How can it be the fault of the voter when most politicians who are voted in, are usually voted in because of false promises. “

Fool me once, shame on you… fool me ten times, shame on…?

Voters have a role to play in this in that they need to adjust their expectations and stop believing the myth that we can have it all with low taxes. We all love to blame the politicians for making false promises, but we have to blame ourselves too for believing things will be different if we just elect someone else. The high cost of governemnt and the services it provides isn’t going away any time soon.

Its time the people of Prince George wock up and formed a rate payers associaton to try and control City Hall. If you dont that new manager is going to bankrupt your City.
Chbeers

“Beth James is setting herself up to succeed rather than fail. We must remember that the successful City Managers of old were at their job for 15+ years, outlasting many Mayor and Councillors.” LAUGHABLE Gus….NO City Manager Micro manages depts MORE than Beth James.

A three year dysfunctional system is about three years too long for me and that is why I personally would never be in favour of any dysfunctional system that is giving even longer lasting mandates, for any reason, including planning. Another thing is that planning for anything is meaningless when plans get changed at the drop of a hat at the whim of those who have been given the power to do so.

“Look what happened when the River Road dyke got shot down by the voters in PG, its no longer a priority as the people had to tell administration to cease and desist before they spent us all broke.”

Balderdash yourself …. wait till the next ice jam … we have a half finished project.

What should have happened is we should have been ready with a new, modern heavy industrial site such as the one north of the City earmarked by the RDFFG and the Lakeland plant rebuild and any other plant could have taken place there.

We should not have spent ANY money on River Rd. Once committed, however, the system should have been completed. In effect, they build half a dike.

Give more … “Does this mean that the city manager will sit in the council meetings to answer any questions the councillors may have?”

You obviously do not have a clue, do you??? The City Manager does exactly that and has been doing that likely since the first time this City had a City Manager.

Graymore wrote: “The problem with your line of thought Gus, is if a new elected council decides to take the City in a total new direction with the backing of the taxpayers they will not be able to do it.”

Another one who does not understand how ANY City, including PG is governed. This is like Jay Leno’s “street walking” session on his show when people come back with the dumbest responses on things they ought to know.

Decisions of direction changes are made during public Council meetings. The debate takes place there. If we have not seen the results of that, just look at Haldi Rd. and look at the recycling plant. On is still in court awaiting another decision.

“Perhaps Gus could give us some examples of Councilors Micro Managing City administration.”

Every time they go against the OCP on an ad hoc basis, when administration suggests they should not, you have that happening. There are so many examples over the last 20 years it is mind boggling.

The OCP has a simple message, stop urban sprawl.

Show $ to any Council, current or past, and they will over-ride the OCP’s well thought out anti-sprawl direction not realizing that there might be development coming in, but the real price to pay is in the future cost of that.

Palopu, himself, has pointed out the cost of sprawl to this City for some time. Yet, he does not understand that Council has the soft spot, and it is not in their heart, it is in their collective brain.

Got bad news for you Ben. The bureaucrats run every level of Government. They are there when the last Gov leaves and they will be there when the new one enters. They are the reason that nothing ever changes. More of the same with a different voodoo doll for the public to bash on. Its the reality of all levels of Canadian Government.

Exactly, Born in BC!!!!!

Countries where that does not happen are called dictatorships, absolute monarchies, etc. ….. and if the right dictator is not in place, then the Army will step in to make sure the right one is put in place.

Someone just stepped out of line in North Korea and was show a quick path to the after-life. LOL

The person shown the door to heaven (or wherever North Koreans go) was the boss’ uncle. Note to self……don’t screw with the power in North Korea.

“NO City Manager Micro manages depts MORE than Beth James.”

When a new City Manager comes in, especially one that may very well have been hired to “clean house”, which is something we do not know, she/he has to look at what has been happening to cause the City to be in stress.

Layoffs happened BEFORE James. A few senior administrators were asked to leave after James had a little while to determine where some obvious changes needed to be done. That is life.

People on here scream loud and clear of their dissatisfaction with the City governance and operations. I am certainly one of them. The solution is not easy. One dos not cut without doing so with some knowledge. One needs to know which areas outshine others and which lag behind too far and cannot be worked with unless a new group with a different mindset is put in charge.

I am waiting for the day when Beth James has had some tangible successes. If that does not come, then she was the wrong person and needs to be giving her walking papers. BUT, in either case, she needs to be given a year at the least to show either success or failure.

JB wrote: “Voters have a role to play in this in that they need to adjust their expectations and stop believing the myth that we can have it all with low taxes. We all love to blame the politicians for making false promises, but we have to blame ourselves too for believing things will be different if we just elect someone else. The high cost of governemnt and the services it provides isn’t going away any time soon.”

Excellent observation that I believe in 100%. I know what some other cities have and what the taxes are there compared to here. We have one of the lowest tax levels in BC and certainly in the country.

There are too many people on this site that do not even know how to compare the taxes in one city to another. This city is well known by small business groups in BC as having the lowest or second lowest business property taxes.

The Citizen is holding nominations for biggest news maker of the year 2013. Andy Beasley, Shirley Bond, etc. etc. I think we all need to take the time to go to the Citizen’s post and email their link with Beth James’ name. Between her and the Mayor they certainly have been in the news more than anyone, and not for good reasons.
I’ve cut/paste the ‘description’ they have in the Citizen.

“Beth James
When she was first unveiled as the new city manager, Beth James was highlighted as an outsider: a senior executive, former provincial deputy minister from the Lower Mainland who was expected to shake things up at city hall.

And if that’s what council wanted when they hired her by unanimous decision, then its wish has been granted.

To quote Miley Cyrus, James came in like a wrecking ball.

James put her experience into practice, swiftly bringing down the hammer, corralling senior staff into what’s now referred to as the “executive team” and essentially rewriting the core review report from KPMG – a $350,000 exercise that was a basic retread of reports produced for other communities.

Further “efficiencies” have since been found at city hall, with jobs getting shuffled, layoffs handed out and more management plans in the making. For the first time in the city’s history, its unionized employees staged a one-day strike and is still in the position to go back to the picket line.

Even the political side is feeling the influence of James, with mayor and council quick to defer to her for guidance when making decisions. Because within the walls of city hall, James’s word is law.”

Very simply put, if the Mayor and Council do not have control of the City Manager, and administration, then for all intents and purposes we do not need them.

We have them, and therefore by extension of electing them they have the power to control and influence what takes place at City Hall. One of the first things they should have done, was not pass the Code of Ethics bylaw. They should have done this for no other reason than to show the City Manager, that they, and not the Manager make the important decisions at for the City.

This means of course that the Mayor and Council would have to be more up to speed on what takes place at City Hall, how it takes place, and who (in the background) is pushing the various projects, and why.

We presently do not have Councilors who are up to speed, and as a result the City Manager, and staff do pretty well what they please, with a few bumps along the way.

The Code of conduct is to get rid of some of the bumps, and make things run smother, not for Councilors, or the general public, but for the City Manager, and her minions.

“Very simply put, if the Mayor and Council do not have control of the City Manager, and administration, then for all intents and purposes we do not need them.”

The Mayor and Council hire, assess, and fire the City Manager. It is as simple as that. In the case of Derek Bates, they were unable to do that or they did not wish to do that until a new Mayor came in.

Can you read between the lines with the above that I wrote?

The Mayor and City Council hired James. They gave her the initial marching orders of expectations. They accepted what James likely spoke to them of how she would go about her doing her job.

She will be measured after a year in office by the Mayor and Council. If she has shown that she can come close to or exceed delivering what Mayor and Council expected of her, then she gets to stay. If not, then they will have to assess whether she is so far off the mark that it is best to part ways.

Should that happen, it may be better to allow the next Council to deal with that. James, herself, may have a hand in what happens next.

As far as I am concerned, it is high time we had the ACTIONS I am seeing. Enough with the CONVERSATIONS!!!

BTW, the job descriptions of the communicator(s) being sought may eventually lead us to have some meaningful CONVERSATIONS which this community has forgotten how to do.

BTW …. the City Manager assesses the remainder of City Administration NOT City Council!!!!!!

THAT is another micromanaging notion!!!

Gus. You have a few problems when it comes to what takes place at City Hall.

Firstly you make the case on how a City is run, which is correct for all intents and purposes, and is laid out in the Community Charter for all to see. The problem is that there is a significant difference between what takes place and what should take place.

As an example. We just went through the process of trying to get a license and service bylaw from administration, passed by Council. It failed dismally. So the question is. How can administration spend all the time and money on a proposal and take it in front of Council, and then have it defeated. In fact it never even went to a vote. Are they that far out of touch that they couldn’t see that this proposal had no legs??

As an example. How can Council pass a bylaw, that increases the rate for off street and parkade parking by some 50% and then state that they did not realize that the increase would be that high, and then go on to say that now that they have passed the bylaw they cant change it.

As an example. How can Council try to locate a institution in a rural residential area, knowing full well that the OCP does not allow this type of structure, then go to court, lose, and then change the OCP and try again, go to court again. Do you really believe that they are acting in the public interest, or are they acting for vested interests??

As an example. How can Council and Administration mine Government grant programs, to find grants, then create dubious projects, that require matching funds, and then build these programs for no other reason than to spend the money.

The list goes on and on.

There is a hell of a big difference between how Municipalities should be run, and how they are run. Prince George is basically out of control, and needs to be overhauled.

“Gus. You have a few problems when it comes to what takes place at City Hall. ….. The problem is that there is a significant difference between what takes place and what should take place.”

I have no problem when it comes to what takes place at City Hall. I am relatively conversant with what takes place and what should be taking place. I can even make some educated comments of why they are taking place.

I have said repeatedly from the days of Kinsley and George Paul right through to Bates (although I gave him a year plus as I am giving James) that this City is dysfunctional

1. lousy planning department during all that time

2. virtually no environmental department (air quality, industrial locations, no new outside the city airshed heavy industrial park, etc.)

3. inadequate snow clearing (downtown streets still have snow/ice piled between the curbside parking and sidewalk so that people can slip and break bones if they fall)

4. inability to communicate with the people of this City

and the list goes on ….

This stuff is not new …. there is so much incompetence both on Councils as well as Administrations and has been for a long time. They have been unable to deal with it.

In the meantime cities such as Kamloops, Chilliwack and even Nanaimo move forward, albeit with some problems as well. Cities without problems do not exist, but there are relatively well run cities and relatively poorly run cities.

We just happen to live in one that is the latter.

Can the City be overhauled? Yes, and so far James is doing some of the right things.

Dubious project?

How about a bit more of a positive outlook. The City has a list of projects which fall under the maintenance as well as service improvement categories.

They have a list which has a chronological order and that is a public list on top of that.

So, like any prudent organization, they look to find some funding outside the municipality. Typically that is provincial or federal.

Senior governments like to bundle funding together into categories and deal with a few categories at a time.

So, someone at City Hall, and it sure ain’t Councillors, take the list and check it against available funds. If something has an immediate priority, great! If not, a priority about to come up in the next 5 years would be reasonable.

So they apply, and they get it, and adjustments may have to be made. Households do exactly the same thing.

It is called fiscal responsibility. Only naysayers will call them dubious projects.

Palopu wrote: “We just went through the process of trying to get a license and service bylaw from administration, passed by Council. It failed dismally.

“How can administration spend all the time and money on a proposal and take it in front of Council, and then have it defeated. In fact it never even went to a vote. Are they that far out of touch that they couldn’t see that this proposal had no legs??”

How certain are you that Administration was the originator of that proposal? I think it was Council initiated through the Finance and Audit Committee

Please remember that we have a finance and audit committee which is composed of 4 members of Council, who are the voting members, and no administrators.

Here are the terms of reference
http://princegeorge.ca/cityhall/committees/finance/Other%20Documents/Finance_and_Audit_Terms_of_Reference.pdf

If you read them, you will see the following functions of the Committee:

•To review and MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNCIL concerning: Sustainable Finance and other corporate policies; initial operating and capital budget guidelines; general and utility USER FEES; property tax rates; and permissive tax exemptions.

•To receive from the City Manager proposals concerning the schedule and method to conduct regular performance reviews; and to consequently recommend to Council, a process to conduct regular performance reviews for the City Manager.
[this is the group which recommends how performance reviews of the City Manager will be conducted]

•To review exempt staff compensation reports and make recommendations to Council concerning exempt staff compensation budgets.
[this is the group who determines the recommended compensation for exempt staff]

•To review proposed financial mandates for CUPE and IAFF bargaining and make recommendations concerning them to Council.
[this is the group which decides the direction bargaining with the included staff union will take from the employer’s point of view]

Who is this group? Green, Stolz, Krause and Hall.

Have a look at the meeting minutes locted on the City web site under Council.

All one can find out from them is what issues were discussed, but not what the discussion was. I wonder if better minutes are kept.

Very secretive, although it is considered a “public” meeting. Tine to crash a meeting or two. Perfectly legal to do so. Meetings of Council and Committees of Council are held in public other than those which are allowed, under the Charter, to be private.

BTW, if you ever observed Bates, you would have seen that he often let Council dig its own grave.