Rut Removal To Continue Today
Sidewalk resembles an ice oval lane , but City hopes to spread grit to reduce the slide – photo 250News
Prince George, B.C.- Depending on how the contract talks go later this morning, it is possible the efforts to clear the ice ruts in the City may be put on hold. While snow removal has been deemed an essential service by the Labour Relations Board, road maintenance is not. It is not clear if smoothing out the ruts created by a freeze, thaw, snowfall, freeze cycle would be classed as removal or maintenance.
Nevertheless, the intent of the City’s Operations and Streets Division is to continue smoothing out the ruts today, and to add some grit to sidewalks which look more like skating rinks than safe walkways.
“Over the next few days we will be finishing up in the blue zone and going into the yellow and red zones “ says Superintendent of Operations Bill Gaal. He says today, the crews are scheduled to be re-doing the arterials and collectors around schools and that Anderson Street, and the streets around D.P. Todd should have been completed by the start of Council last night.
“The sidewalk machines are attempting to smooth out the roughness as well as applying fractured material to improve traction, and we’ve also been responding to themany requests for sanding on residential streets.” Normally the City only applies sand to intersections, but because of the slick conditions, there have been entire streets sanded.
Just as a point of interest, the significant snow dump in December cost the City $635 thousand dollars to clean up. The full details of the snow removal budget and any overrun for 2013 will be delivered at the next City Council meeting.
Gaal says all available equipment is working with the exception of one grader, which is down because the operator is not available due to a death in the family. Below is a list of the equipment available during a snow event:
But the current state of many roads is rough. Gaal says removing the ice ruts takes more time. He also says the move to a new policy to remove snow at 12 centimeters rather than 10centimeters, is not to blame for the state of the roads as each snowfall was well in excess of 12 centimeters.
While the Mayor said she drove Anderson Street and found it to be "interesting, to say the least" Councillor Murry Krause was more blunt "The roads are terrible, we have to acknowlege that, we can't sugar coat it, but I guess the key for me is not blaming people but what have we learned from it, so that indeed if we end up with these same kind of conditions later on in winter, or, heaven forbid, we end up with them in 2015 when the Games are on, so how do we manage that?. So I think that for me it really is what are we learning from it, how can we mitigate it in the future if it should happen again?"
Comments
Krause has the right approach. BUT, given past experience, this City has shown a failure to learn anything about the duty to clear snow and the method of proper snow clearing.
What I do not like is the notion that somehow the Winter Games are more important than the people who live in this City for longer than 2 weeks in one year and one year only. We live here year after year and see the same thing.
This time around we just happen to have the “perfect storm” – an alignment of two repeated snowfalls of 15+cm, warm weather, a period of several days of thawing, and finally a freeze over, plus the Christmas/New Years season plus weekends.
BUT …. that is no excuse. There are certain services which are 24/7, or at least they should be. Maintaining streets and sidewalks is one of those.
“the move to a new policy to remove snow at 12 centimeters rather than 10centimeters, is not to blame for the state of the roads as each snowfall was well in excess of 12 centimeters.”
I wonder why most other cities actually do the following when a significant amount of snow is expected to fall over a day or longer:
1. prepare the main snow routes PRIOR to a snowfall with salt/sand depending on the temperature.
2. begin to plow when about 5cm has fallen and continue to plow till after the storm is over.
3. have ALL classes of roads clear of snow, including windrows on centers of roads within 18 to 24 hours after the snow has stopped to fall.
They work 7 days a week in shifts over a 24 hour period; they have enough equipment available plus manpower, plus backup manpower should someone not report to work to cycle through the streets often more than once during the storm and then once more at the end.
AND, they typically do it for less per lane.km than we do.
From Calgary, a columnist writes:
“As someone who grew up in the Maritimes, whose love of snow days was often thwarted by efficient snow removal strategies, I continue to be baffled by Calgaryâs struggles with the fluffy white stuff”
http://metronews.ca/voices/in-defence-of/883264/calgarys-a-winter-city-without-a-winter-city-snow-removal-budget
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I am totally baffled by Regina’s snow removal policy, although they get just over half of our snow, so maybe it is not all that often that the conditions they speak of occur.
“Residential streets are plowed upon a single snow event in excess of 25cm. Residential ice shaving will be implemented to address rutting.”
Totally bizzare!!!!
There seems to be a continental divide at he Ontario-Manitoba border in the understanding at what standard winter streets should be maintained at.
http://www.regina.ca/residents/winter/qa
I don’t get it. It’s not like PG “Just” started getting snow. I guess $ is more important than safety because these ruts and ice are NOT SAFE!
I wonder what vehicle Queen Shari used to drive Anderson Street?
“Interesting…” that’s it???
Wanna see rough? Try Ongman Rd, or exit off 97 S to Ferry/Queensway, high center for small cars.
Give more:”I wonder what vehicle Queen Shari used to drive Anderson Street?”
I saw her driving a huge white SUV (Cadillac or similar). Lots of ground clearance. Huge wheels. It wasn’t the Nissan Leaf electric one.
If councilor Krause follows down that rabbit hole he will find himself in violation of the new ‘code of ethics’ that he signed on to. The one that says councilors must go through the city managers office to talk with employees about process. So one can’t really expect pressure for improvement even though concern is shown.
The list provided for equipment is noted “Typical” During strike action i am willing to bet that much of the rental equipment will not cross the picket line.
And why is it taking so long to determine what essential service is? Probably costing more than a small raise for City employees.!!!!
dome of the roads in this town are almost undrivable. There is no excuse for them being this bad and the people running this town should be ashamed. Must be saving for another trip to china
If the City had spent the time to remove the wet snow before it froze (which we had a lot of warning of), rut removal would have been easy. Dumb a****s!
Rutting season is early this year.
One thing this has shown me is how backward cities to the west of Ontario are when it comes to admitting that it does snow in many places. We are not all living on the Island or lutus land or Chinook country where 20cm of snow can disappear overnight if one prays to the Chinook gods.
From Saskatoon, another city with trucks being the vehicle of choice. Farmers there, loggers here.
Grading blitz launching to cure Saskatoon motorists stuck in a rut
http://globalnews.ca/news/404855/grading-blitz-launching-to-cure-saskatoon-motorists-stuck-in-a-rut
In all my years here in PG Ive never seen the clearing this bad or take so long. My road hasnt been cleared in over two weeks. The comment “What have we learned from this” is a bunch of BS. How long has the city been in snow removal? Are you telling me we are just learning how to clear snow? The city in the past has never taken this long to clear the centers of main roads or side walks. When they new there was a melt coming it seemed to me they would hit harder so that there wouldnt be as much water build up on roads. This is unacceptable. I blame more the supervisors and managers for deploying there teams in a very poor way.
What ever happened to political recalling of elected officials. They aren’t doing anywhere close to their jobs. If I didn’t do my job properly, my boss would fire me. WE elected them, then WE SHOULD FIRE THEM!!!!!!
That rutting joke is so bad , yet ILMAO.
Just out of curiosity , I wonder what the numbers are at the hospital and clinics of the people that have sipped and fallen on this ice pond . Sounds like a class action against the city brewing for a good lawyer.
I agree with stitch!!!!
They should be held liable for there incompetence
this is a result of budget cuts… stay tuned more to come…
Almost a million bucks to have our streets and roads in this condition? Unbelievable. This truly us the definition of incompetent. You can get rid of all the mayors and councillors you want, it will still be the same people running the snow removal show. THOSE are the ones that need replaced.
Other thread is dead so will reply here gus.
The reason I said that it would not be a stretch for a process engineer is that in addition to designing an efficient flow they are also brought in to troubleshoot problems and eliminate bottlenecks to maximize production and god knows there are plenty of bottlenecks:0
When it comes right down to it clearing the streets is a mechanical process to move a product from where it currently is to where you want it to be by mechanical means. Really no different than chemicals or pulp through pipes.
As for being boring- the city uses an engineering firm to count cars- a project like this would be like a gift from heaven by comparison;)
Wonder if the sale of those dastardly carbon emitting suv’s is increasing do to the condition of the roads. Kinda negates the city missguided green agenda.
Carp: “I agree with stitch!!!!
They should be held liable for there (sic) incompetence “
The people operating the plows? I agree.
No need to plow George Street what with that hot water pipe below. Right, Danno?
Our road was plowed ONCE this winter in early December. You cant walk on it and hardly drive a car down it. I remember the mayor said when she was a councillor she wanted to only plow downtown and not the residential roads,well she got it. All the roads downtown plowed with the snowbanks removed. I think the people sould remove the major next election
mayor not major sorry
Krause has been on council long enough and he should by now know the answer to his own question of “What have we learned from this”. His comment of heaven forbid we end up with these kinds of winter roads when the games are on and asking how do we manage that speaks volumes to his lack of leadership on council and his inability to apply pressure for improvement when are where it is needed. He is the same councillor who fully supported the Core Review process saying it was good for the City because it confirms the City is already doing things right….Really?
The state of the roads isn’t due solely to the weather conditions. If the City had sent out road crews during the warm spell (which lasted for a few days), they should have been able to clear some of the roads e.g. roads around schools.
I am not letting my children walk the dog in their own neighborhood for fear of someone driving losing control in one of the ice ruts and hitting them.
I have talked to a postal carrier who is constantly in fear for her life because of the roads.
It just doesn’t make sense to cut the snow removal budget when you can’t predict the weather. We are a winter city and our streets have to be cleared in a reasonable manner. The current level of service is not even approaching reasonable.
The problem is we have been paying for excellent snow removal, but the city crews have been on a ‘slow wheel’ since the beginning of December. The mayor knows that and so do the rest of the pansies on city council but they won’t speak out ’cause they are all chicken ***ts.
I think contractor is right. There is no doubt that the snow has not been removed as fast as in the past. Is this because of **work to rule**? Who knows.
In any event, we are now stuck with all this ice on the roads, and some people who are in the heavy machinery business, will tell you that the City graders are not heavy enough nor are their ice blade strong enough to remove this ice. So at best we can expect them to level off some high points.
If they go on strike, then all we can hope for is another big dump of snow to fill in all the ruts.
City workers cannot plow routes without the go ahead from their manager. Has nothing to do with “work to rule” at this point. When the streets drivers come on shift, they are given a sheet of routes to plow/grade/salt and that’s ALL they’re permitted to do. Have an issue with that, call the city streets division and city hall to make a complaint.
At this point from what I can gather, they’re only being told to do main routes and bus routes…not side streets. All about the budget, people.
Once they finish the sidewalks maybe they can hit our street which hasn’t been touched since mid December. The ruts and bumps are so bad I have had to pick and choose whether leaving the house is important or not because its hard to drive down the street without potentially damaging my vehicle.
Or maybe the plow truck driving down Ospika today making a nice shower of sparks could come down the streets that haven’t seen plows in forever.
Prince George is going to loose a lot of people with the roads being this terrible..people that were thinking of makig the move have said now for sure! I hope the terrible, selfish Green witch is happy.
Maybe old Sherri should take a walk around the streets of this town…oh no, she might fall down!! lol
Lonesome Sparrow … I respect your posts and the knowledge that is obviously behind them very much.
I think this is one I am just going to have to say thanks for your response but, based on my experience with such matters, I will continue to believe in my selection of a person or persons I would hire to consult by looking at the work product of snow removal under his/her control over the years, no matter what the other credential may be.
It is true that all GOOD engineers have applied analytical skills which means that they would do a good job, but anyone with actual practical knowledge and experience and attitude would have a quicker response and likely better response, especially if they have been seconded by other jurisdictions to do exactly that kind of consulting and have turned the system around.
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