Road maintenance has to be a big factor here, along with unusual weather patterns contributing to terrible road conditions.

Even at approximately 30kms an hour a couple days ago in front of Wajax, I found myself skidding sideways when I tried to climb out of the ruts to give a wide load that was coming toward me a little more room. I was in four wheel drive, with a full sized pickup truck, got the front end out of the ruts and toward the shoulder, but the back end wouldn’t climb out and just kept skidding along right where it was. Thusly we met with the wide load doing its best to avoid ME, instead of the other way ’round !!

The road conditions out in the BCR area are just disastrous, and I hope its because the road maintenance people have too much to do, and not because we’re out of money or equipment to keep up with proper maintenance.

No one should have to die because of that.

Jack up the speed limit that should help!

Maybe they should hire KPMG to do their study. Seems they made SUCH a difference in how the City is run. NOT!

We should consider building a separate road for heavy industrial transportation….oh wait…we do have that; the railroads, with their own rapidly deteriorating safety record.
Where human factors come into play we need to look at lack of compliance (not more rules) and unshackle the hands of the enforcers, stiffen up fines and gag defence lawyers

If its 20 people that lost their lives, then its probably well over a 100 that were directly impacted by these tragic accidents.

Most road crews do a good job once they are out there, the problem is they are often late and reacting to road conditions, rather than being proactive and on site as conditions start to change. This seems to be a particular problem for YRB… north in the Pine Pass and South in Quesnel one often sees the road crews pre staged before a storm, but rarely does that happen near PG.

I think the biggest contributing factor to all the accidents is the thin yellow line and lack of plowed shoulders. Often passing traffic is inches away with zero tolerance for error. Look at the Salmon Valley Bridge for example… snow piled up 2-feet on either side of the road and there is no way two semi’s can fit as it is now.

To prevent these head on accidents we need wider highways. We need 3-5 feet between the yellow lines and we need full shoulders that can be used for clearance in the winter. North of the Pine river they don’t even have a white line much less a road shoulder… its one lane traffic in a snow storm. With a 3-5 foot divided yellow line one ends up with a windrow in the middle of the highway that can prevent passing in bad locations during the winter, and may just be enough to provide that room for error should a vehicle loose control.

For me a 3-5 foot divided yellow line (like they have on Vancouver Island) is far more important to road safety, than the so called 4-lane carriboo connector concept or more passing lanes. 20 deaths in a matter of a few weeks is a huge unacceptable cost that is and were entirely preventable with proper infrastructure and maintenance IMO.

Time will tell.

These accidents have nothing to do with enforcement and other revenue generating solutions. Human behavior and capabilities will always have their vulnerabilities and sometimes it just comes down to building proper infrastructure and maintenance programs to compensate for those considerations.

People may want to be more serious here as people have lost there lives.
The highway maintenance contractors need to look at how and how much equipment are on the roads doing maintenance.
I followed a plow truck for 20km that stayed in the center of the road plowing and sanding and sending slush etc into the next lanes. There is no follow up plow truck moving this loose slush etc off the highway and it doesn’t matter what type of tires you have this build up grabs and then directs the vehicle. Trying to stop or control vehicle at this point is nearly impossible.
The plow truck never once allowed the build up of traffic to get past.
Then on way home same situation on 2 lanes up hill and one down plow over center shooting snow into the lanes on each side of the truck and two vehicles decide to pass at same time one on each side of plow truck.
Just lucky no accident but plow truck could have pulled over at start of this upgrade and let the traffic go by and then go back to his routine but chose not to or doesn’t have to.
It’s time the public started demanding answers from those handing out the contracts or doing the work under the contracts.

Get better painted lines on the highway, Sure the highways may be covered with snow a lot of the time, but still that little bit of white and yellow paint on the bare spots, helps a lot when driving a nights.

I think the 4 lane connector between Pg and Cache Creek needs to be completed sooner than later.

Get a bit more aggressive in completing the four lane to Vanderhoof as well. Do 10 km a year with the 3 ft wide separation as mentioned above makes good sense.

As far as plow trucks, if your that upset about following a plow truck, than you should not be complaining about road conditions. They just want to do their jobs for everyones safety as well as their own.

All of these are tragic and completely preventable. People need to slow down, pay attention, and drive to the conditions.

Road construction in the north highway 16 and 97 should be a top priority for the province, the gas and mining industry should also consider taking a led in bringing these roads into tip top shape. The increase in truck traffic is easily notable by the general public if you spend anytime traveling in the north. Come on BC we can do better put our tax dollars towards preventing road travel deaths. One death is too many. Rip to those lives already taken.

“while some may be quick to point to the involvement of commercial vehicles in several of these crashes, the details show that in most of the cases, it was the smaller vehicles that were out of control, and crossed into the on coming lane”

The good Sargent does not quite get it. When some of us point to the involvement of commercial vehicles, we do not identify blame. That can only be done after some investigation.

A simple truth is that the proportion of commercial vehicles on the road has been increasing over the years.

There are several issues involved with the mixing of large commercial vehicles on the same roads as smaller passenger vehicles. Those issues generally reduce safety rather than increasing safety. Eagleone has indicated some of them – road design, road maintenance.

Improved passenger vehicle designs have decreased the number of fatalities, the severity of injuries per km driven and likely the number of crashes per km driven. I do not think that road design has kept up with that increase of safety, at least not in remote regions of the province.

It is good to know that they are looking at the bigger picture.

The factors are many. Roads which are too narrow for today’s mixture of traffic is certainly one.

The other is that whether it is snow, black ice or sand, the surface road makings simply get lost during winter weather conditions, and some even for days and weeks after. The guides we have to go by are the travelled areas of those who came before us …. and those weave over shoulders as well as over center lines and other lane location markings. That is especially true in curves.

I believe road maintenance is a huge factor. Its the worst I have seen in 30 years! The volume of semi trucks has also increased significantly. Unfortunately the maintenance has not been ramped up to support the traffic volume.

“two vehicles decide to pass at same time one on each side of plow truck”

It is illegal to pass a plow on the right side. Not only that, it is also stupid.

Truly a Highway of Tears

good lord people. Driven through worse going to PK on the heavy snowfall days, where they tell you stay off the road.

I see a pattern. cheap winter tires, no season tires, 2wd vehicles or lack of winter driving skills.

You dont need a truck, but something with all wheel drive is key. AWD is not purly just accelerate, rather if you start to loose traction, its a 4 wheel drift, rather than understeer on FWD or oversteer on RWD. Trucks are also brutal, as the light box plays havoc.

Blame, let’s get past this and find solutions.

If this was happening in the lower mainland, the gov’t would be fixing it, and quickly. I guess “northerners” don’t matter as much.
We need these highways to be more like the highways in Alberta. Divided. 2 lanes each direction. That way the people that just have to pass, can do so, in a safer manner.

Be honest with yourselves. How many people drive on the highway looking for escape routes? In other words, if the vehicle that was approaching you was to suddenly go over the center line and end up in your lane, what is you escape reaction? Shoulder to the right? What condition is it in? How wide? Ditch next to it? Utility poles? Spacing frequency? Fence? Trees? Bushes?

How much time to you spend trying to warn the other car? Horn? Lights?

Do you slam on the brakes? Slow down gradually? Speed up?

Is there a vehicle behind you? What is it doing?

The questions are never ending. At the closing speed of 200km/h. do you have 1 second, 2, 3 or how many to makes some decisions?

There is always talk about the increase of commercial traffic on our Highways, however its never backed up by any numbers.

Certainly the number of trucks that haul retail, and food commodities into the North would not increase by much, because the population has not increased.

So we can assume some increases in trucking to service the expansion going on at Kitimat, and perhaps the construction on Highway 37 out of New Hazelton going North, but that’s about it.

So where is the increase coming from.

Part of it has to do with mill closures through out the North and logs being trucked to mills further away from where the trees are logged. As an example, logs that were once milled at Upper Fraser are now coming to Prince George BC. There are other variations, including longer hauls for woodchips, and hog fuel.

Add to that the large number of people who come to Prince George every week to shop, etc; and you have significant increase on traffic on our Highways. Especially 16 West with no corresponding improvement in the Highway itself.

Mix this with an ever increasing number of basically unskilled drivers, and you have the ingredients for some serious accidents.

Let us face it. We design highways and city streets for non-snow weather.

Then we get snow. Suddenly, depending on where one lives in BC, we get one to 4 months of conditions for which we have no standard maintenance procedure. This city is living proof of that.

So, please, do not tell me it is all the driver’s fault. Drive for the conditions. Was driving in winter conditions ever a part of a road test when taking a license? Of course not!

Driving is a right, not a privilege. That is what it has become, it is not only the current generation, it is the one before that as well, and the one before that. It is why roads were built and it is why cars are advertised they way they are on TV …. macho, driven like no race care driver would ever drive them …..

All these accidents are because of the roads and that is due to a terrible mayor of this city. I have talked to people who have lived here all their lives and they tell me the roads have NEVER been this bad…only now with the new mayor!!

I feel for the first responders to these accidents, especially when there are children involved. Thank you to the first responders for being there!

News2me:”We need these highways to be more like the highways in Alberta. Divided. 2 lanes each direction. That way the people that just have to pass, can do so, in a safer manner.”

Couldn’t agree more!

Our one and only East/West and North/South highway connections are for the most part only 2 lane and consequently unforgiving, especially in the wintertime.

The new Port Mann bridge cost 3.2 billion (b) dollars. A mega project and perhaps 100% justified. But, both of our main N/S and E/W arteries could have been properly four-laned and made very much safer for that half that kind of money.

The carnage over a number of decades of two lane narrow roads may amount to more costs already, not counting the lost lives and many injured!

Go ahead and borrow the money while it is still relatively cheap!

I would gladly pay a toll fee!

I assume the first responders in a remote highway accident are more typically the vehicles nearest to the accident. I would like to think that they are more than just gawkers.

The response system for remote locations in the north is another matter and has been brought up on this site a few times.

It would be a great help if those who drive the northern highways on a frequent basis would have a bit of training of what could be done and what should not be done in the case of coming upon an accident scene.

Slow down people.

“The key here is, there appears to be we are having abnormal winter weather. For the most part, we expect January in Prince George to be generally minus 15 to minus 25, dry and we expect hard packed snow on the roads, or bare and dry roads. This year we’re seeing varying weather patterns with snow, then up to plus 4 and rain Friday, followed by a temperature drop and snow again on the weekend.”

Get use to “abnormal winters” people, global warming is here and we are only just beginning to see, and feel, it’s effects. Change is in the air people, both in the weather, and in our winter road driving conditions, slow down and “change” your driving habits accordingly, this winter, and in future winters to come!

The first rule for defensive driving is to ajust your attitude to the road conditions. If you cant ajust stay home.
Cheers

The whole idea of a ‘normal’ winter is a myth. Are you saying there was never periods in the past where the temperature rose above 0 on the winter? People’s memories are fallible. Everyone remembers periods of -40 and walking uphill both ways to school but they tend to forget when the weather got mild.

gus, I should of clarified that when I wrote about “first responders” I meant the RCMP and Ambulance Service. Also the Fort George Hwy. Rescue Society.

I have been a first responder at more accidents than I care to mention. I have given up my expensive ski jacket to cover a man’s legs that were completely shattered, I have sat with another man who shin bone was coming through his leg and watched my husband, along with others, try to rescue a man from a burning truck (couldn’t be done).

I think a lot of people who come across accident scenes have some first aid training. I do and have noticed that it is those people who run to the scene to try to help in any way they can. Kudos to those who do this too.

Speaking from experience, accident scenes are traumatic psychologically and I can’t imagine doing this as a job. Thank you to those that do. You are strong, brave people!

Three things would make our highways so much easier to drive in winter.

One, put up signs that indicate where passing areas start, and another say 100 metres before where it ends – because the lines do disappear – and people are going to try and pass no matter what the road conditions – so why not let them know where the passing area is when the snow has hidden the lines.

Two, increase the pullouts to one every two kilometers so that if you are driving to what you think is the right speed for road conditions, but the ten cars behind you clearly disagree, there is a safe place to pull over.

Three, I know it’s already an offense, but enforce the law that if you are impeding the flow of traffic, you get a ticket. And it’s an easy one to enforce, if we had the pullouts, because the RCMP could sit in the pullout, and if you drive by with a parade behind you, you get the tickets and points, because even if you are right, and you are driving to the road conditions, holding up other people just get everyone killed.

Posted by: gus on January 10 2014 9:33 AM
Driving is a right, not a privilege.

————-

You got that one backwards

Since winter tires were made mandatory in Quebec, winter driving fatalities have dropped 36%. Seems like a simple solution that might have saved 7 lives here in the last 2 months.

People#1 how long have you lived in PG. I have 35 years in and this present weather is not abnormal.

What ya think of the weather back east?

To sunnyday1–these accidents are on the highways; not on our city cow-paths! They are not responsible.
Hollering about the mayor on this one doesn’t cut it!
Condolences to all the family & friends of the accident victims.

These highways need to be 4 laned and divided it is the only way to stop head-ons. Shortly we will have a pipeline being built through our province. These highways are only going to get busier. The companies should be forced to add money to replace these highways. They will make billions because they can cross our province. You can say better tires, drive slow, etc. But when it comes down to it if the highway has a foot of slush on it or solid ice vehicles will cross the center line. The province must find a way to divide these highways.