I am certain Jones is scrambling to provide an explanation; but why? Just tell he truth about the direction that was obviously given to him from the Superintendent of Operations. Why is Mr Gaal so noticeably absent this week. Hmmmmm.

How hard is it to understand that all we want is to be able to get around in the winter . We get winter every year so budget for it for #**#@! sakes. Sure makes one reconsider retiring here with this gong show of a city hall at the wheel . My neighbours and I would like to know where to send the invoice for using our snow blowers to clean off our street so it is half assed assessable .Still haven’t seen plows since before Xmas.Maybe the city can start talking about the PAC to get our minds off of this disgraceful service

Glad someone from the City is speaking out .Jones and his crew including the Superintendent of Operations should get their stuff together and listen to the people. Brian’s right, worst in 40 years.
Especially in and around DP Todd area – the City is lucky there have been no head-on residential accident, there is so many blind spots caused by high snow banks …if there ever was a city bus going the opposite way at the same time …count your lucky stars ….the City needs to change their game plan . BTW I wish Brian’s able to be in town for the snow clearance issue that’s schedule on January 20th city council meeting. Brian is there any way you can make it, having your presence is big – can be the game breaker. Please try to attend for the residence of Prince George. On another note, I sure hope your running in the next election. Thank You.

That’s what Brian does best, isn’t it? – creates a furor. Why couldn’t he have spoken to the streets supervisor and posted the reply, like the reporter in this story did? No, he gets more press by posting pictures.

why is there no plows in college heights, I listen to the crews on my scanner, they work only on the north side and central day after day same streets.

In any case, will the public get to speak? Highly doubt it……………

Miss management and curb overtime would be my guess. We live in PG not Kamloops this snow and weather change is not new, look at the weather channel and plan, what a joke.

When will St Lawrence and O,Grady be plowed?

So they choose not to plow until more snow has fell and now it takes longer. So did they save any money? Plow it more often the job will go quicker and more people will be happy. My street finally got plowed yesterday. The last time it was plowed was Dec 13th. As far as I’m concerned that is totally unacceptable.

No Mr. Jones we do not forget years gone passed but your diversion from the current Sh_t Storm is a clever play. Smoke and mirrors only work in the land of OZ.

Please feel free to check with some of the old school operations folks that were involved in early to mid 1990’s when snow removal was improved by George Paul with help from the city employees, contractors.

The snow removal has progressively gotten worse since 2008.

The new priority is the downtown due to the current mayor, but that will likely change before next winter. The old ways allowed for some of the main arterials to be plowed heading into the downtown. Now good luck getting to the downtown because the mains have not been touched.

All of the light industrial areas of the city are NOT a “first night” priority but I believe that their priority should be as high as the DT. Industry is where the $$ is not selling candles on “Speciality Avenue”.

The time has come to fix the service level leakage that everyone except you can see.

I choose to live in the North and understand where i live there will be winters with snow sometimes lots of snow. My major concern with the snow removal is if money is being wasted on how they do it. Is it the most efficient way? I could care less if it takes awhile to plow the local streets as long as it isnt because of crews screwing the pooch or being miss managed. I am worried the City is paying more for less.

The city should be supplementing maintenance costs for the added beating our vehicles take. The shock and suspension business must be a gold mine in this town.

On street corners with stop signs the snow should never be piled up so high that it touches the underside of a stop sign! It is impossible to see what is coming without inching out into potential traffic!

Since there are over 500 (five hundred) outside and inside workers I am hard pressed to buy the lack of personnel explanation!

Many spring, summer and autumn tasks are on hold now (snowed under) so what gives?

It doesn’t surprise me Skakun has jumped in to makes noise on this issue- that’s what he does. It also does not surprise me that he will be on vacation when City Council meets to discuss the issue.

Our street was finally ploughed last night. Guess what? They are out there plowing it again! Don’t know why, but I don’t dare complain!

I would Like to thank Brian for being a voice for what so many people were thinking. I have been here over 40 years and never seen the roads so bad. You cannot tell me it is the snowfall or lack of personnel. Our city streets were the laughing stock of the country last summer and made the top ten worst roads list.Only when major public outcry happened did council and our so called Mayor take action. It will be the same here… we will have to scream and scream loud to wake up the Mayor! I am a voter and the ONLY person on council who has my vote again is Brian. The rest can all go……

Our street was finally ploughed last night. Guess what? They are out there plowing it again! Don’t know why, but I don’t dare complain!

He took the photos around 6:30. Isn’t the evening shift the short personel shift? The night shift (which starts around 10 pm) is the full personel shift (to avoid least traffick conflicts). Should take a picture at midnight to have a proper comparison.

I think Brian has finally started something he can win this time, don’t back off and lets see how much help he gets from the rest of council. Don’t just stand by and let Brian do all the work. If you think your plowing is bad you should check out YRB areas, they are worse then the logging roads we hunt on in the fall.

Took a drive over a week ago. Drove up to Malaspina Ridge, found it very strange that all the roads leading to that area were horrible,not cleared, including the main roads. Once we hit Malaspina Ridge entrance all the roads were cleared in that development. Does the Mayor live there or other higher ups at the City that they somehow get better snow removal???

Whoaaah, hold the horses buckaroo Skakun. We do not want more union workers on staff. Being a union rep, I would not be surprised that this is the alterior motives to start this campaign.

Took a drive over a week ago. Drove up to Malaspina Ridge, found it very strange that all the roads leading to that area were horrible,not cleared, including the main roads. Once we hit Malaspina Ridge entrance all the roads were cleared in that development. Does the Mayor live there or other higher ups at the City that they somehow get better snow removal???

I know the crews must be trying but it’s clear that we need more resources dedicated to snow removal. An ambulance got stuck on our street last week and a firetruck had to come and help dig and push them out. The firetruck had to park up the road because I live on a cul-de-sac and it couldn’t get in. It was quite the sight seeing four firemen and myself trying to push out the ambulance. If this would’ve been a life or death emergency it would’ve been very scary. And this was right on our road not in the ditch.

Domano hasn’t been done since the turn of the new year. And the crescent I live on off Domano hasn’t been done since Christmas. I followed a plow two days ago doing Foothills that had less than 1 cm of snow on it! I find it hard to believe the snow is worse this year than usual, so why is the plowing so bad?

I’m glad all you arm chair plow operators have all the answers. There is 55 employees performing snow operations. They are split up in 3 shifts. This includes from foreman to laborers that operate arrow boards. They need the traffic control because people drive like morons and can’t see the row of trucks, snow blower and loaders with all the flashing lights. The afternoon shift is the only shift that doesn’t have all the available equipment go out because there is not enough staff. If you want better snow removal the city needs more equipment and operators which means you have to pay. Whether it is city staff or contractors it will cost more money. You seem to think contractors are cheaper, they don’t do it for free and always charge out way higher than city equipment.

Thank you Brian for bringing this up. Yes, there could be some question as to what time the pictures were taken. But that does not take away from the fact that the equipment was sitting idle. Get on with it City! You got a job to do.
Now, let us see what Stoltzi can orchestrate with the Operational Chief at the next Council Meeting – I hope there will be ample time for a rehearsal so the “debate” will look ‘kind of’ real.
November can not come soon enough so we can get rid of the ‘other eight’.
Of course, the real challenge is to come up with credible replacements – but hey, out of eighty thousand people, surely we can find some!!!!

Over the years I have heard people on the inside say that Bill Gaal is one of the main problems. Thats the only 3rd hand hearsay I can add to this.;)

But seriously clearly something is wrong.

That’s a Grand Stand you have found once again Brian. I’m sure that you graduated Magna Cume Laude – from clown college.

How did you vote on the decision to wait till there is 12cm on the ground before sending out the plows, i don’t have time to look today.

DPJ posted: “He took the photos around 6:30. Isn’t the evening shift the short personel shift?”

When the clearing of snow and ice off City streets is WEEKS behind schedule, there should not be a short personnel shift.

If one has a shortage of equipment because they live in fantasyland thinking that the condition which have happened will never happen, then the least they can do is have enough people available 24/7 to operate ALL that equipment ALL the time except any maintenance time.

If it is true that there are contractors out there that have equipment but no people to operate it, then maybe someone should get busy finding people who can operate the equipment. Do we have to get the jobs minister involved with this that shows that we cannot provide basic services to this City due to lack of skilled people?

Who else has this problem in Canada? Or will we have eggs on our face when the jobs minister’s staff look into the matter and find out it might be more due to lack of proper planning on the City’s part?

“Jones says he doesn’t know the exact time Councillor Skakun took the photo, but, it is possible the shot was taken during the afternoon shift, a time when staffing levels are lower,”

The photos were clearly taken when it was dark. While Jones may not have seen the pictures, I would think that the interviewer had seen the pictures and could have corrected Jones, in that case.

Monkeyboots^^^^ you got that right.

I personally know of two contractors that will not work for the city again.

Bentley mentions there are only 55 workers to cover 3 shifts 24/7. For sure this is not enough for the winter months.

Mick Jones quoted “The last snow event, we tried to skip a zone and we went two zones ahead to try to stay ahead of garbage collection that didn’t really work either,” said Jones. “

Why is the city not training others in house? Is it because of a clause in the contract? Contracts can be be altered with a supplement even after the fact if BOTH parties are willing.

Stolz wants to bring up the idea of having plows on garbage trucks as they do in NY.

Question is: Why are we now worse off than in recent previous years when we used to be known for being one of the best up to a few years ago. I remember City Hall bragging. I also remember on of Green’s promises…..downtown is the priority and a few more…….

Right on Restjet! It’s hard to believe that anyone cancritize Brian for taking the initiative.

I think part of the point is being missed. The city does subcontract graders, but the contractors can’t find employees, which is just part of the overall loss of skilled people to retirement and the oil fields. This is only going to get worse as workers age.

Obviously it’s not a solution for everyone, but I think you pretty much want to budget an 4wd or awd vehicle if you’re going to live in this part of the world and don’t want to be thwarted by the weather.

My page has a snowblower add at the bottom. Hmmmm.

Ski50. That point is not being missed at all.

I am sorry, but driving a grader or a snowplow is not rocket science. Train others. Again, did anyone see this coming? If so, what steps did they take to solve it. Are we becoming that stupid?

BTW, I have an all wheel drive. Yes, it gets me through the snow. But even at 10kph I am in for a jarring ride.

Instead of sitting with idle equipment while the going was good for clearing the slush off the streets, they should have been going 24/7 at that time with whatever equipment and personnel was available.

BTW, in you shopping trips, how often have you had to park on uncleared shopping cetnre parking lots? So far, I have encountered none.

Several years ago, before there was a real or perceived shortage of operators, George Paul indicated that one of the problems was that the City was unable to give the contractors certainty of work, something that private businesses seem to be able to do conditional, of course, on there being snow to clear. So, private property owners were/are given priority. It is as simple as that.

The difference between those private property owners and the City is that the businesses figure they lose money if people cannot move grocery carts, park cars properly, walk properly, etc.

The City, on the other hand, does not lose money, they gain money the less they plow.

They also gain complaints. But they are a tough bunch, so they just deflect off their political armour.

In the final analysis they are providing an unsafe City environment in which the people who live here have to pay for the consequences of those unsafe conditions.

In some US cities the city folks install snow plow blades on the front of garbage trucks. But I guess that’s different. My SO wrote a letter to the editor about snow plowing quality. We didn’t get our street plowed for two weeks many years ago. Whine all ya want, but don’t let them know where you live.

Finally, a solution to manpower shortage is to work smarter. Private industries that survive have figured that out some time ago.

There are better operational methods to get the streets cleared. The eastern parts of the country have figured that out. The western parts have not. Less time out, fewer person.hours, more appropriate equipment, all result in less cost per cm of snow per lane km.

Posted by: doogood on January 14 2014 9:57 AM “My page has a snowblower add at the bottom. Hmmmm.”

I bought one of those back in 1982 and it lasted until last year. It ran on tracks. The only thing wrong with it up to last year was it would have cost almost as much as a new machine to replace the auger.
Needless to say they cost more but it lasted 31 year! It even walks up the stairs to the deck.

Bought a new one on tracks and hopefully it will be the last one I buy. ;)

My street is rarely cleared so I use it on the road at times, for neighbours driveways
and moving the snow that the neighbours push from their yard across the street to my side.

If there is a will there is a way!

Lets hope the people of this city have a will so we can find a way to get rid of the useless administration in City hall.

“In some US cities the city folks install snow plow blades on the front of garbage trucks”

Yes, as Stolz recently pointed that out.

New York city is famous for that. In emergency situations only. The thing is, this City does not know what an emergency is.

The thing to take away from the New York city situation is not that the garbage trucks can be outfitted with plows, it is that New York city actually considers too much snow on the streets an emergency situation!!!

Our City Council fails to understand that simple notion!!

Maybe for 2015 the City can have the Winter Games add a new event. “Extreme snow clearing.” Invite snow clearing crews from across Canada to compete in snow clearing events that last the run of the games..

ewitt says…..”How did you vote on the decision to wait till there is 12cm on the ground before sending out the plows, i don’t have time to look today.”

Do you really think the increase from 10 -12 is what is behind the crappy grading job the city is doing?

We have a serious problem with snow removal.

Firstly with conditions like we have been having, there is absolutely no excuse for machinery to be sitting idle because someone is off sick, or on bereavement leave. Surely we should have people trained to keep the machinery running.

Secondly. How much time and money is spent clearing parking lots for the CN Centre, and off street parking, Library, Art Centre, City Hall, Swimming Pools, etc; etc;. how do these facilities rank in terms of what gets priority??

Thirdly. Street clearing downtown is the s..ts, and is in fact a disgrace.

There is more to this problem than meets the eye. We are paying out approx. $5 Million a year for snow removal, and getting very little for the money.

Snow Control Revenue and Expenditures on City website. 2012

Expenditures
Salary & Wages (including benefits) $2,377,546.00

Non-Salary Expenses $2,554,090.00

Total Expenditures $4,931.636.00

We should keep in mind that the cost of snow removal is for a 6 Month period only. Furthermore one would assume that the contractors are paid out of non-salary expenses, so it is pretty obvious that the majority of the funds are spent on salaries and benefits for City employee’s.

If you knew the number of people on snow removal for the winter months, you could determine how much it costs us per employee for the six month period.

Having worked for the City as a private contractor for snow clearing and clearing private lots I guess I could add to some of the comments.

Yes, there is a shortage of “good” operators as the newer operators seem to have problems with curbs, manholes, etc. They don’t seem to be able to feel what their blades are hitting. But, the older grader operators are willing to teach and we knew that the shortage was coming so there was time to do the training.

Private lots demand that their lots are in good condition because they can lose customers and they can also be sued if someone falls.

As a private operator we do not wait until the snow stopped we try to stay ahead of it. Don’t always win but instead of having 15cm to clear when it stops snowing we may have only had 4-7cm to clear.

We clear around the clock, seven days a week. It is cheaper in the long run to pay overtime than it is to try to clear the mess that the City is in right now. Ice blades are more expensive than snow blades and they do not last as long.

When Bill Gaal was appointed to the streets, the comment was that our streets would be in worse shape and the snow clearing would be worse. It was Mr Gaal that ordered the snow clearing crew to wait until the snow stopped.

But I also remember hearing people complain about the City crews out clearing snow while it was still snowing.

That pic is nothin mr skakun. I have a picture on my facebook posted dec 22nd at 11:15pm of 10 piecez of iron in a parade coming down the bipass str8ght into the timmiez parking lot. Yes 15minz inthe shift and i know that shift just started because my dad worked for the city 35+ yrz

greene and stolz are also in full spin mode when they say they have budgeted more this year because how much they spend depends not on what Council budgets (that only makes sure they don’t have a deficit) but what the service levels are and this group of clowns reduced that level.

Somebody at the top also gave direction to squeeze the private contractors and save a few bucks by cutting back what they pay and how long a shift they work.

It is no wonder most of the private contractors said to hell with the city, we will take work elsewhere.

In all the years I have lived here the snow removal has never been this bad. There have also been plenty of winters were we have had more snow so they shouldn’t use that as an excuse.

Fuzzy wrote: “Invite snow clearing crews from across Canada to compete in snow clearing events that last the run of the games.”

They would have to bring their own equipment … ;-)

dragon- raising the limit before sending out the plows just made a bad problem worse.

Say you are a fisherman out in the middle of the lake and your boat springs a leak. All you have to bail with is a small pail- do you think you will have to bail harder to catch up if you continue fishing till there is 12cm of water in the bottom of the boat?
Well the pail is like the city plows and the sooner you start the easier it is to keep up.

What others have been saying is some of what I heard as well about Bill Gaal. I think part of it is that he is a guy who worked up through the ranks until he found his level of incompetence. Sometimes people get over their head without them knowing it or accepting it.

WOW Prince George will be the laughing stock of B.C. if the roads are like this when people show up for 2015 winter games.no one will ever bother to come back.

“…no one will ever bother to come back.”

What a devastating prospect!

(Don’t worry, the streets will be plowed to previously unknown highest standards during the Games).

Solution – send City Council with a one-way ticket to the equator to study snow removal; by the time they get back the snow will have melted and a new council will be in place.

Check out the end of Massey, where it leads to Ginter’s off-leash dog park. When driving from Ginter’s to Massey you will notice that a large portion of the lane is graded beautifully – flat and smooth – which is odd because it doesn’t get a lot of traffic. Once you hit Massey, which gets substantial traffic, the road reverts back to ice and potholes. WTF?! I would sure like an explanation for that one.

The easiest way to keep this going is to pressure the city to put a webcam on the equipment yard with 24 hour public access. Any citizen can look at the webcam and see what’s working and what’s parked.

PGGuy: “The easiest way to keep this going is to pressure the city to put a webcam on the equipment yard with 24 hour public access. Any citizen can look at the webcam and see what’s working and what’s parked. “

That’s just what the City needs, 75,000 micromanagers.

Interesting timing on the poll question about snow removal priority. Why not ask this question again in July and see what the results are?

WTF would like an explanation for that.

well some city official probably lives on that road.

Maybe the good news is that we will realize lower taxes based on decreased road maintenance. This may offset all the damage to our vehciles. As well won’t need to sweep the streets because they haven’t put any sand down all year.

Think again about decreased taxes. Any savings will be gobbled up by more wasteful trips for mayor and council to China to visit the Great Wall!!

Ehnonymous wrote…..That pic is nothin mr skakun. I have a picture on my facebook posted dec 22nd at 11:15pm of 10 piecez of iron in a parade coming down the bipass str8ght into the timmiez parking lot. Yes 15minz inthe shift and i know that shift just started because my dad worked for the city 35+ yrz

The shift starts at 10:30pm but most night shifts have been starting at 8:30pm trying to get caught up. So most likely they had already been working for 3 hours. They are entitled to a coffee break like everyone else.

There is always a bright to everything—- Hub Cap collecting has never been better.

There should not be a big **mystery** regarding snow removal. We have been doing it for 100 years. So what’s the problem.

1. Management?
2. Experienced workers?
3. Funding?
4. Private Contractors?

All the above.?? I expect that there is sufficient funding, and that the problem lies with Management and Workers.

I agree with Skakun that we need a public meeting with Council, Administration, and the General Public. We need the general public, because they can supply some expertise to the meeting, especially those who have contracted to the City, or are contracting to the City.

We need to pinpoint where the system is failing, and fix it. It is no longer sufficient to hear various and sundry excuses from City staff. We need solutions. We have done good snow clearing in the past, and there is no good reason why we cannot continue to do so.

You can rest assured that we are not receiving the best efforts on this issue from either Management or staff.

When it comes to money, we can no longer operate on the premise that there is **more where that came from**. There is no more.

Its time for some action on this and many other problems at City Hall.

Honestly, what’s up domano,just plow one lane not plow a lane then plow 2 then down to one again. You guys are unbelievable and it is also a safety hazard to motorists .

People#1 they are not going to rail it to Kitimat, if they do run it by rail it is going to Rupert or Seattle where there are ports ready to go that require just a small amount of expansion.

Kitimat was chosen because it was the shortest route for a pipeline, there is existing rail to Rupert so that makes a better choice if you are not building a pipeline. Kitimat is going to run LNG tankers through the Douglas Channel which would go south of the Charlotte’s and avoid Hecate Strait. The tankers from Rupert will run the Hecate Strait and Dixon Entrance as the coal tankers and container ships do now.

What’s funny is the city with their c02 reduction BS are forcing people to buy those dastardly SUV’s.

Letting the snow build up on the streets is just stupid.It takes the grader much longer to clear a street and is much harder on equipment.A grader should be able to clear a street in two passes but now he has to work the hell out of the machine to clear the same street in 6-8 passes not to mention more fuel being used also.

Any news on how city halls Nissan Leaf makes out in the ice ruts, or is it lost and will be found when the snow and ice melt.

Is anyone surprised by the snow removal anymore? I’m not. I expect the roads to be crappy. I expect to be stuck in my house for days at a time because my road is so bad that taxis and the pizza guy won’t drive down it. Sidewalks so slick that you need skates. Clearly, its no ones fault. There are too many people trying to pass the buck and say its someone else’s fault.

Its too bad we can’t pay our mayor and council at the end of their term. You want the big bucks, you gotta earn them.

Leaf, I have also been wondering how every thing worked out with this car.

Her “Worship” lives in Heritage, about three blocks from me. How do I know? Cause the Mayor’s street is always the LAST to be plowed, same as mine. No B.S., it is the same way in most municipalities. I have this straight from an ex-Mayor

Bentley wrote…..

“The shift starts at 10:30pm but most night shifts have been starting at 8:30pm trying to get caught up. So most likely they had already been working for 3 hours. They are entitled to a coffee break like everyone else.”

Technically your employer doesn’t owe you a coffee break.
He owez you a 30min break for every 5hrz worked.
And yes that shift did just start cuz i was right behind them.