Post Mortem on Snow Removal Promised
.html)
Graph of snow amounts and calls for service – courtesy City of Prince George
Prince George, B.C.- The City of Prince George's Superintendent of Operations, Bill Gaal, says that when it comes to snow removal "the goal is to have an average snowfall completely cleared within five days from when it stops snowing." Gaal says the City doesn't have "the resources nor the financial capacity" to have all situations cleared the first day of a snow fall.
He has promised his department will be doing a post-mortem on how the significant snow falls in December were dealt with.
In his report to Council, Gaal says some residents "have come to expect immediate relief after a snow fall."
Gaal also addressed several issues which have surfaced including the role the outside workers, CUPE local 399, may have played. He advised Council that while it may never exactly be known what role the labour dispute had on the snow removal efforts in December may never be known, however he added it was disingenuous for the union local presidents to say their actions had no impact. "When the union presidents are talking strike, overtime bans, work to rule and making phone calls to contractors in efforts to dissuade them from working and now say those efforts played no role, is just plain wrong."
Gaal says there is no truth to the allegation he is "trying to save a buck" that this is not about budgets. "While we do always spend public money responsibly, council has never given direction or even hinted that service should be reduced for financial reasons."
He addressed the allegation that administration deliberately kept equipment in the public works yard, rather than have that equipment operating."Every piece of equipment was out for the maximum time."
His report notes that between Tuesday Dec. 10th and Thursday Dec. 12th, 43.6 centimetres of snow fell on the City. With that volume of snow, Gaal says crews were clearing just the "priority 1's repetitively and because of that volume of snow, it was not possible to move to lesser priority streets for two days."
And then it rained, compacting the snow and making it all the more difficult to clear.
While it normally takes about 5 days to clear the City after a 15 centimetre snowfall, Gaal says it took 8.5 days to clear that 43.6 centimetre snowfall. That one snow event cost the City $650 thousand dollars.
Still, Gaal points to the positives, noting that other communities would have shut down under that kind of snowfall, but "the residents of Prince George continue on".
He says while the snow clearing efforts have not changed, there are changes in the weather events, the volume of snow per storm event "and more importantly, resident expectations."
Mayor Shari Green says her office and administration and Council worked on improving snow removal every day, that she personally called anyone she knew who owned equipment to see if they could help. "I think the majority of staff have really worked hard on this". She says there will be a "post mortem" in the operations division to see how things can be done differently, and improved.
Councillor Frank Everitt welcomed the promise of a post mortem, that he hopes will also address the issue of training of staff to operate the heavy equipment, and an assessment of the maintenance of machinery. He says the city needs to know if equipment needs to be replaced. He wants the post mortem to be completed sooner rather than later, and would like to have something back before Council for the February 3rd meeting. "It is not something I wish to go through again" said Everitt. The February 3rd timing a little tight for administration, but February 24th was acceptable.
Councilor Albert Koehler says as of Friday, he was still getting emails from people saying their roads had not yet been cleared. "That's four weeks, that is a long time" said Koehler.
Councillor Dave Wilbur says with all the winters he has lived here , he doesn't believe the policies failed, and doesn't think the "blame game" serves any purpose "Guess what, stuff happens!" He says it's time to get off the blame train, and accept that stuff happens.
Councillor Garth Frizzell says if there is anything to be learned fromn the events of the past month, it is that the snow and ice policy needs to be changed to reflect the possibilities of such an event.
Councillor Lyn Hall says he was pleased that residents felt comfortable enough to contact their council member to talk about the issues. "The roads were disastrous" said Hall who said he had the same emotions as any resident as he drove down a street and many concerns were raised. Those concerns raised questions about adequate equipment, training, and staffing. He talked about the public safety issue side of things as he watched as elderly residents stood still on icy sidewalks, afraid to move any further. Hall says the post-mortem must come back to Council, "The public wants us to talk about it in a public fashion, and they want us to tell them what we are going to do about it." "I have complete faith that on February 24th we will have something we can sink our teeth into."
Comments
Why do they keep bringing up the “first day after a snow fall”? I don’t think anyone expects that. I think people have a huge problem with 5 major snow falls this year and their streets being done once and in some cases not at all. It hasn’t snowed in a while so there is no excuse for streets in this city to not be plowed by now. Bus routes and schools were goat trails. I saw city buses stuck. I personally know people that couldn’t drive their cars over the huge ruts and holes on their streets because they hadn’t seen a plow at all this winter. I watched from my front window as a lady was driving and hit a hole as she was trying to get out of a rut and ripped part of her bumper and muffler off.
My favorite so far this winter is the other day when a sand truck came down our street and I said to the wife that it was stupid because our street hadn’t been plowed in a while. Sure enough we come home a few hours later to our street plowed. Why waste the sand and manpower to sand a street that was to be plowed within a few hours?
So what did we change in 2008? If Im reading that graph correctly, the calls for service increased dramatically that year and every year since, following the amount of snow.
Mayor Green personally called anyone she knew who had equipment……..what a joke maybe if she hadn’t dropped the ball on renewing the contracts for contractors to remove snow the city would not be in this mess…..goodby Green off ya go
The first three snowfalls are still on my street in the form of 6 inches of solid ice. I guess that will finally be gone sometime in March or April!
Ha, Gaal continues to act like a school yard bully (or like the coach of the Canucks) and continues to blame somebody else.
Why canât he or the mayor simply say we didnât meet the expectations of those who pay the bill and we promise to make whatever changes are necessary to make sure it doesnât happen again.
Then again, that would be admitting they might not have been as prepared as they should have been and they of course never ever make a mistake. I guess that is why they get paid over a hundred thousand.
Thank god for YRB. They at least admit when they make a mistake or donât do a good job.
I was just talking to an operator and he advised Mayor Green cut back 1000 grader hours and put a freeze on snow removal costs when she got elected. I find this whole thing stupid – its obvious the lack of snow removal is due to lack of funding.
If i remember correctly, ’08 was another atrocious year for snow removal delays. I remember sliding out of ruts on victoria st and into curb after curb. It was really bad for snow and rain mix. The city seems to have a policy of waiting for rain if its forecast to warm up, rather than to plow right away. I moved from pg in 2010 and was back visiting two weeks ago, and was appalled at the road conditions. Some streets in the bowl were undrivable for days. IN THE BOWL! Not buckhorn or pineview! While property prices tempt me to reconsider a move back to pg if the opportunity came (i movedfor a new career in 2010), the state of those roads in winter are a dealbreaker. The potholes in spring were a dealbreaker before. I will never live in a city in canada that allows such unsafe and preposterous conditions to accumulate. Pg has a bad enough rep for being a “violent” unsafe town. Luckily, i know that thats mostly a myth. But the streets are indeed very dangerous for totally preventable reasons. So when people think im tough for growing up in pg i advise them that nowadays, while the people arent rough, the streets are the roughest youll find in any canadian city.
The Citizen newspaper has a new contest of finishing a proverb every week. Last week’s proverb was “There is no such thing as…”
Kevin Sanregret, who is a long time employee of the City, replied with “There’s no such thing as bigfoot, tooth fairies or intelligent snow removal complaints.”
Where does this attitude come from? Ms. Green and Mr. Gaal both seem to enjoy pointing fingers and not accepting responsibility. I wonder if they are proud of the condition many streets are in and feel that they have done a good job. If they and the snow removal managers are satisfied with their planning and delivery of their service that is one thing, but I cannot believe the disrespect they show to the people of PG. I can only think they believe they are untouchable and that we will learn to smile while we take what they give us.
WHAT?????
Talk about waste in management! It seems that a lot of the management in this city is a total waste of taxpayers dollars.
Gaal:”While we do always spend public money responsibly, council has never given direction or even hinted that service should be reduced for financial reasons.”
Then why were we told unless service dropped, we would have to pay and extra fee for snow removal?
My side street was ploughed before a major bus route now that would be a scheduling error, would it not?
I think the city needs to have a data base listing all the city streets and alley’s and provide a date when the street gets ploughed after each snow fall. This way everyone can access how the snow removal is being handled.
How’s my Latin? Doesn’t “post mortem” mean “after death”? Downtown is post mortem. IMO.
Years ago, a local pulpmill bought a bunch of 668 clarke line skidders and unionized the workers. They would skid about 80 trees a day, Us who were owner operators would skid 200 trees and more per day.
The snowplowing should not be unionized.
Get my point?
onemansthoughts.. no I dont get your point.
your one example means nothing..
where you operating as safe as the unionized people.. where you working in the exact same terrain, did you over work.. did you take breaks..
etc.. So easy to make something sound good without the facts isnt it.
As for the mayor calling everyone she knew.. oh please lady..
P Val. I don’t suppose you ever watched that 1959 movie called, “I’m All Right, Jack”. Peter Sellars and Terry Thomas. It brings truth to the adage, “Many a true word spoken in jest.” Watch it then get back to me on this. I await. Thanks, pal.
onemansthoughts,
The pulp mill bought a bunch of skidders and unionized the workers? Where were they hired from, were they dishwashers and labours before they were unionized?
The owner operators were more that twice as productive as the “Unionized Workers”?
Operators take years to hone their skills and comparing apples to oranges doesn’t work in any circle. Your deluded to think that unionized equals incompetent or lazy.
Ask Local 115 Operating Engineer’s members if they are going to be out worked by any cull that can turn a key.
Get my point?
I watched this council meeting last night and I was appalled by “Her Worship”, Stolz and Wilbur. I have been driving in PG for 17 years and since I returned in 2008 I have watched the city streets deteriorate in snow removal a little more each year. This being the worst yet. The Mayor and those other two Councillors clearly forget who they are working for. Maybe operations does need to be micro managed because the job they are doing is not acceptable and it is our councils job to make sure we the taxpayers are at the very least satisfied. Accept the job is not getting done, accept that and do a better job next time around. Find the problem and fix it! That is your job, and that is why the residents come to you. Damn it I am so sick of the attitude coming from there…. and honestly I don’t give two craps if you and your husband are not “reading” anymore because of the abuse you get from your people…. Yes being “dissed” is part of your job, but if you are being dissed this much, don’t you think for a second…maybe you are not doing what you were ELECTED to do.
“While it normally takes about 5 days to clear the City after a 15 centimetre snowfall, Gaal says it took 8.5 days to clear that 43.6 centimetre snowfall”.
8.5 days what a joke try a month, hell they still trying to get it all done
Just heard on CBC news that hwy’s 16 and 97 have had their status upgraded. Improved winter maintenance is coming mid Feb.
onemansthoughts,
The pulp mill bought a bunch of skidders and unionized the workers? Where were they hired from, were they dishwashers and labours before they were unionized?
The owner operators were more that twice as productive as the “Unionized Workers”?
Operators take years to hone their skills and comparing apples to oranges doesn’t work in any circle. Your deluded to think that unionized equals incompetent or lazy.
Ask Local 115 Operating Engineer’s members if they are going to be out worked by any cull that can turn a key.
Get my point?
Former Mayor Rogers, we made a mistake. Please come back.
“Gaal says crews were clearing just the “priority 1’s repetitively and because of that volume of snow, it was not possible to move to lesser priority streets for two days.”
One of the priority one streets they did not clear for WEEKS was First Avenue between Tabor and Foothills. It is a bus route. What was really unusual was that the sidewalk also was not cleared. It is usually the first part of the route to be cleared.
I have to ask what sort of internal reporting system do they have for someone at the top of the management chain to not know what was actually happening in the City? When such misinformation hits his desk and he writes a report that ends up looking like a spin to the local residents who are closer to the action than he is, it does not provide any credibility to the entire report.
“Councillor Dave Wilbur says with all the winters he has lived here , he doesn’t believe the policies failed, and doesn’t think the “blame game” serves any purpose “Guess what, stuff happens!” He says it’s time to get off the blame train, and accept that stuff happens.”
He is a lawyer. I wonder if that has anything to do with him not knowing what it means:
1. to be a civil “servant”?
2. to learn what he can about quality snow clearing?
3. to understand that we are not the only city in Canada that gets snow.
4. to manage an operation of more than 3.
5. that chit happens all over the country and they deal with it, not by shutting down as Gall seems to think, but by treating the event as a priority at the least and an emergency on some occasions because transportation in a real city is one of the main priorities no matter what the weather event.
Dear mayor and council, fix the problem. You work for me and the other taxpayers. If your managers can’t do the job replace them. 850 complaints in January, here a hint somebody isnt doing there job!! I betcha the post farce will cost 200K!!
Harbinger …. I agree with you about a post mortem. It is a common term, but I feel that a better term would be a “debriefing”.
Debriefings are often shunned by upper level departmental managers because they generally do not think its worth the commitment of resources.
To me that is an indicator of someone who is not on a continuous improvement process in the department. In fact, when it comes to looking at work as projects, it is a lousy attitude to have because each and every error will likely continue to be perpetuated to the next project.
I could have sworn that at one time, over 20 years ago at least, the City was committed to running a continuous improvement operation.
Those days are obviously gone.
I just looked up the meaning of the term “post mortem” as it pertains to management of processes/projects:
“Any investigation after something considered unsuccessful, especially used of meetings, games and sports, software development, and projects of any kind.”
So, it seems to me that the term is very appropriate in the case of snow removal during and after a storm.
The one thing I was looking for in the report was during the three day snow event, when did crews actually start going out to clear snow?
Any reasonable report would have included the following: for each shift period during each day of the event, how many pieces of equipment were out, a list of the equipment, whether it was City or contracted, what areas were cleared, to what standard was it cleared.
Any manger involved with snow clearing operations should have that as the minimum daily activity report.
Where is it?
Someone made the decisions, when to plow and where to plow. They were the wrong decisions. They left PG residents, to this day, wondering WHY such decisions were made. Mr. Gaal this was your responsibilty and your decisions. FIRED.
Why on earth does there need to be a Post Mortem on snow Clearing and removal? The city of Prince George and District snow clearing and removal have dropped the ball all through this year and years previous. This is again nothing short of tax payer paying for an inquirey on how come the idiots that run and live this city can come out smelling like roses knowing full and well winter comes to the north every single year. The only post mortem that needs to be done is getting rid of those idiots that are in charge, and a inquiry done to prevent them from ever running again!
Debrief? I thought that was when some one pulls down yer jockey shorts. Our ‘burgermeisters sure get “debriefed” a lot when it comes to getting caught in some of their actions.
This postmortem is going to be flawed. City said last night more than once it will be with management staff. To me this means supervisors etc. not the actual workers/employees.
It is a workers right to accept overtime. Was there not a work to rule going on? That means the workers only work their regular hours. No overtime. It appears this city management expects a norm – meaning the workers will work all the overtime.
Flu season is here and I don’t think we have reached the peak of it. Has this city got a plan if many employees are sick? Doubt it.
It baffles me why there was not another grader operator to fill in, Correct me if I am wrong, when this first came to light it was not mentioned it was a contractor worker.
Is the public and council aware that many of the city snow removal crew have been working a heck of a lot of overtime and they may possibly be starting to burn out. They can only do the job the way they are told by management and the equipment they have to work with?
Are the city drivers not suppose to keep log books? Where and what is the city’s concession plan? I remember it was to be a priority a few years back and it seems to been flown out the back door.
This city lacks communication big time.
I watched the council meeting last night and totally disgusted with the mayor, Gahl and Wilbur. I am also disappointed 4 of the other councillors did not carry through with the motion that was on the floor and voted upon. The mayor in my opinion had no right in asking Kroehler to rescind his motion. That motion was voted upon.
I am not a city employee or related to one. The performance last night was shameful to say the least.
Good thing we did not get any of that global warming they got and again getting hit with back east.
Classic case of barking up the wrong tree.
The actual blame lies with those who made the decision to keep the equipment parked till there is 12 cm on the ground-Green and company- even in the face of a major snowfall warning from environment Canada. With the snow really coming down by the time they complete the #1 priority routes they have to start them over again rather than take a swing to the residential streets in between.
The other question i would ask is when the clearing of streets centered around graders rather than plow trucks? At 20km/hour a truck can clean a heck of a lot more lane kilometers than a grader going a couple of kmh!If the trucks started plowing as soon as it started snowing they could get the roads passable till the graders could come along and push the banks back. If they leave it till is rock hard ice the trucks are useless and we have to wait on the low moving grader/loader tandem.
seamut – Good thing we did not get any of that global warming they got and again getting hit with back east.
You got that right. lol
At least other mayors including Edmonton’s recently kept their communications open and informed their citizen. Not like ours.
Not sure that the people enduring 45 degree heat and bush fires in Australia would agree with you seamuts or California with drought and fires.
Bill Gaal is a complete JOKE!! To try and shift focus away from himself who is the man in charge of the city’s snow removal, and put it on the Workers due to a labor dispute…that in total consisted of a 1 day protest, is absurd. Guess what Bill? Its 2014…..the contract was signed a month ago…..the streets are exactly the SAME! Maybe Queen Green needs to actually spend sometime looking at his mismanagement of snow removal.
Anyone know the Municipal laws since Babitcz was not in attendance last night?
1. A motion on the floor-initiated by Kroehler
2. Mayor Green called for a vote on the motion
3. 5 hands went up to support Koehler’s motion
4. The final vote 5 to 3
It appeared mayor was not pleased with the vote and continued to say she was against the vote and the motion.
5. Mayor asked Koehler to take back his motion.
What the dickens happened last night? The motion was voted on and therefore passed. It should not matter if she was against the motion or not after that point – it had passed with the vote.
Are the council meetings still aired on Shaw another night? It seems to take a good week before we can see it on city website.
Nothing new in those parts Ewitt. Weather history might help you.
http://joannenova.com.au/2014/01/forgotten-historic-hot-temperatures-recorded-with-detail-and-care-in-adelaide/
I’m starting to think its just lack of caring. What motivation do you have to do the best job when you know in less than a year you are gone on to other things?
the problem with the city is management is not held accountable. Mr Gall said that all city equipment was out working. Well three weekends back they held back the graders and just had a few trucks working. Brain Skakun even brought it up at council that there was equipment sitting in the yard.
Bill also said that they have had the same amount of equipment for the past 10 years. I do not believe a word this man says, I wonder how many more kilometers of roads we have gained in the past ten years. This would warrant a look into more equipment and more manpower.
The workers have done a great job.
Bill and the others need to be held accountable
Comments for this article are closed.