I think there is a huge disconnect. Did they stop work as soon as the fresh snow was cleared up? Just have a look around. There are very many streets as well as main arteries that have enormous amounts of compact snow or ice six to eight feet out from the curb, entrances, exit haven’t been cleaned up yet and a lot of two lane thoroughfares are still down to one lane because of it. What’s wrong? At least in the recent past, these would have been cleaned up within a week or ten days, but this year they are simply left as is.

Hey Bill, here’s something for you to look at: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/whitehorse-road-crews-race-to-clear-snow-months-early-1.2510734
Maybe you can pick up a couple of pointers as to what your job entails.

How bout some sensible snow removal planning? Right now the grader goes by and pushes the snow on the sidewalk… then the sidewalk machine comes along and pushes all the snow back into the road. Some side roads get plowed 10X a year, yet the street next to it gets plowed once. And why expensive graders? Most northern cities use plow trucks that can plow and gravel at the same time.

On top of that the city could pay for 1/2 its snow removal by giving fines to all the people parked on the roads, or leaving their garbage cans out for 5 days. I have heard all kinds of excuses for parking on the road but it really doesn’t matter, it is illegal and fly’s against PG’s bylaws. If you are too lazy to shovel your driveway or you have 10 people living in one house it is NOT the rest of the cities fault and we deserve to have our roads plowed properly. 9 out of 10 of the vehicals parked on the road are from rental homes, so the people living in them are not even paying city taxes. Fine them, tow them or plow them onto their front lawns, I want my road plowed and plowed right.

UH, there was a bylaw about the odd number side,which covered for on street parking.. maybe you should check into that.

Gaals report will be made to Council on Feb 24th,. Feb,. 10th is a holiday.

If weather forecasts hold we should have another dump of snow before this meeting, so we may be able to see how his report coincides with actual snow removal.

Its a sad day indeed when a City that is soon to celebrate its 100th birthday, and who is considered to be a winter city, is still flaying about trying to figure out how to remove snow in an effective manner.

The snow removal is a Management/Union problem, and we need some solutions sooner rather than later.

We all know that we will have excellent snow removal for the Winter Games, and we will have exemplary paving of roads this year because of the elections.

So lets get this right once and for all.

I believe that they just need better management an organization. THEY SHOULD HAVE ASK IN THE POLE IF THEY NEEDED A MANGEMENT CHANGE.

Exactly: has any one ever ran a company before. you do not hire people or buy equipment for 6 months work if you dont put 2000 hours on it you rent or hire a contractor that way you stroke a cheque at the end of the term and it leaves.If you buy a grader you have to insure for a year maintain all year and put it on the books and depreciate it.Take a look in july two graders sit all summer rusting poor business.They need to put a contractor grader and loader by them self and let them go when it snows thats why all the parking lots are done before we get up.

Gordie….one of the problems is there are no graders available for hire! Who’s going to keep a piece of iron sitting in town waiting for a call from Bill Gaal to come to work for half of what the private sector pays? The economy’s far to good for that!

“And why expensive graders? Most northern cities use plow trucks that can plow and gravel at the same time”
Graders serve a very different purpose than plow trucks and yes, they are necessary. :)

I do agree that the illegal on street parking needs to be handled. If a plow is on the street and there is a car there (against the bylaw), call a tow truck. Done. We complain about efficiency and then look down any street and there are large sections untouched where the clearing crews had to go around a car parked on the street.

“Superintendent of Operations, Bill Gaal, is to return to Council at the next meeting with a report on how things may be improved”

The report should state “Things can be improved by Firing Me and hiring someone who knows how to co ordinate snow removal for a large Northern city”……But I cant see him making that recommendation lol

I believe planning is the most important part. If you have no plan than were do you start.Unfortunately this year I believe it was a lot of bitterness with the contract negotiation underway, the employees felt the need to show people how much they are really needed. Which ultimately leaves a negative reflection in peoples minds weather the city has the capability and the resources to complete there tasks. I have seen snow removal done far better in the past with far less property damage being done by the equipment operators, which leaves me feeling “are the equipment operators adequately trained? or has there been a large turn over in the past couple years?”.Gordie is right! the city doesn’t need a large fleet of equipment depreciating in a yard somewhere. The city has the overall data on snow averages in all parts of the city. Divide the city into section somewhat like they do with the garbage removal and contract it out to several contractors. May cost the city a little in severance packages at first, but the city would gain by have quality employees maintaining there city streets. No one complains about the garbage men, they “rock”, good job guys, if only other did there jobs as well!

They can’t remove the snow and yet are asking our help with the big winter games..lots of luck there…I have been chatting with people and a lot are not planning to help at all!

Sorry to here you feel that way sunnyday.Have heard that one rotten apple can spoil the whole barrel?

PGMAKESMECRAZY says “9 out of 10 of the vehicals parked on the road are from rental homes, so the people living in them are not even paying city taxes.”
There is certainly taxes paid on the homes those folks live in. They pay their share with their rent. Doesn’t mean they should clog up the street though.

The City does not need to contract out all snow clearing. I think that if they contracted out the Hart Highway, North Nechako, Foreman Road, and Blackburn, they should be able to stay on top of the rest.

As I have said many times. The land mass of the City of Prince George is much to large for the amount of taxpayers there are to service the area. This is a direct result of the Amalgamation in the seventies, when the City took in South Ft George, Hart Highway, Blackburn, and a few other areas.

The City has grown very little since then, and those people in the outlying areas have not been well served since amalgamation, certainly not when it comes to services that they pay taxes for.

This City likes to think it is a Metropolis and tries to act accordingly, when in fact it is a small Northern City, in an isolated area. We need to stick to the basics, and forget the urge to be **Big Shots**

Tax dollar priority should now be on roads, snow removal, garbage, sewers, and other infrastructure. This business of spending millions, on useless projects has to stop. Wages and salaries, and staffing need to be looked at with a few for getting more bang for our buck.

This is an election year. So lets start putting the pressure on Council, and Administration to ensure that we are well served the next time around.

This may mean some significant changes at City Hall, however the alternative is more of the same.

“No one complains about the garbage men” .. last I looked I have a city garbage truck pick up my garbage, not a contracted out truck.
Problem is, even if some of the snow removal in certain areas are done by contractors, the city is still going to want to be the organizers of it. So really we won’t be any better off as long as we have people who are incapable of making the proper decisions AND sticking with them. I have heard Gaal say the snow removal precedes garbage removal on more than one occasions. I call major BS on that because we NEVER see a plow truck up here on the Hart after a big dump until well after we have had our garbage picked up. Average time to get any type of snow removal equipment up where we are is 3 to 3 weeks after the snow, by then it is simply packed down and they only scrape the surface to smooth it out where you don’t have 6-8″ potholes.

Wasn’t saying that the garbage was contracted out, only stating how well of a job they were doing in there department is all. As for organizing snow removal, this would be up to the contractor not the city. The only involvement the city would have in it all would be the location of the dump site.

I agree maverick. The contractor would get the area and would be responsible to get the job done. The City would of course check to see that it was.

No different than Yellowhead Road and Bride, doing the Highways and Roads. In fact I suspect that they would bid on the contract seeing as how they are already in the outlying areas.

Very poor management and an inflexible union is the problem. We need to flatten the management and make the union more flexible, so that the job can be done when it needs to be done and not on some artificial schedules.

If this measn starting when the snow starts to keep up on it, and some working five days weeks that are not Monday to Friday, then that is what needs to be done and should have been the priority at negotiations.

So Bill Gaal was preoccupied in negotiations with dollars and percentages and let the ball drop on snow removal (his primary responsibility), and yet in the end nothing was done to address the real issues that plague our snow removal in regards to the deployment of the human resources available in the most efficient manor for the city. Typical PG BS… tax the property owners for the incompetence at city hall.

The Answer to all the Snow Clearing Problem is to move to a Place with no Snow, after 37
Years it’s time, sell and move!

Yeah that’s it Outwest, although Sherri Green said it best! ” move to greener pastures”. Got anything you would to sell before the big move?

“And why expensive graders? Most northern cities use plow trucks that can plow and gravel at the same time”

interceptor….. That’s multitasking… They aren’t paid or trained for that yet

I don’t understand why people think contracting out is the solution. Look at how screwed up the highways are, why would we want that in the city as well ?

“I agree maverick. The contractor would get the area and would be responsible to get the job done. The City would of course check to see that it was”

I haven’t actually confirmed to see if that’s the case here, but I’d be willing to bet this is exactly how it’s managed for parts of Ottawa, or at least the residential areas. I say this only because I see the same private company doing the streets in my neighbourhood. I tend to see the City of Ottawa trucks on the more major roads and streets.

A big benefit to this type of system would be that if the contractor doesn’t keep up with the service standards put in place by the city, they lose the contract. Simple. All the city has to do is measure their performance against the standards that have been set. That and ensure that they focus on those areas they want to have greater control and flexibility to manage.

“I don’t understand why people think contracting out is the solution. Look at how screwed up the highways are, why would we want that in the city as well?”

===================================

That’s not a contracting out issue, it’s an issue of evaluating whether the contractor is living up to their contract and taking appropriate action if they aren’t. It comes down to accountability and being willing to kick the contractor to the curb if they can’t get the job done.

“make the union more flexible”

I’d try negotiating first Eagle, unless you like trying to “make” people do things.

So do the contractor’s get a retainer to sit on their butts when there is no snow fall? They do have employees and equipment to pay for.

Why do some think a contractor would be cheaper? How many percentage points cheaper if cost is supposed to be less with a contractor?

Its not a question of being cheaper. Its a question of costing the same, or a little bit more and actually getting the job done.

With Contractors working the outlying areas, and the City looking after the bowl, South Ft George and College heights, we might actually get the snow cleared in a fast and efficient manner.

The present system is not efficient, and needs to be fixed. Perhaps contracting is the answer, perhaps not.

I am astounded that our subdivision was plowed again today. It did not need it. And the cross streets at the east end of 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th still aren’t done. I’ve hear there’s one street down off 1st that is totally blocked with a huge pile of snow. Just blows me away.

Grizzly1……tell your staff to quit pushing your snow out onto the city street.
Just blows me away.

Are you serious? LMAO!

Yup, serious Grizzly1. Lots of places in the east end plow their snow out on the streets making a bad situation worse.(or so “I’ve hear”,in your words).

NMG;
Have you not paid attention as to who has been clear all the major arteries running in and out and through our city? YRB in my opinion has done a fine job this year given the circumstances. I think people are under the illusion that our city crews has been maintaining these areas huh, open your eyes and take a look around you next time you are traveling our city streets.