P.G. in Plan for LNG Plant
Prince George, B.C. – While most of the talk about LNG ( liquefied natural Gas) in B.C. seems to focused on the west coast, Minister of Energy and Mines, 
Speaking to the Prince George Chamber of Commerce, Coleman said there is a company that is looking at shipping LNG on rail cars from Prince George to Prince Rupert. He says the company is in talks with CN about using the rail line to get the product to the Prince Rupert Port.
That piece of information was part of what might be considered ‘LNG 101’ as Coleman talked about all the positives that make B.C. the right choice for companies looking to invest in LNG.
While there are more than a dozen proposals for LNG exportation on the table in B.C., Coleman says there is still some work to do before the companies involved will make the final decision on investing billions of dollars. He said it is possible one company could make its final investment decision as early as October.
Coleman says LNG could be B.C.’s ticket to becoming debt free in 15 years, and have a $100 billion dollar “prosperity fund” within 30 years.
But there is competition.
Australia has been working on developing it’s LNG export plan and has run into some cost over runs. The United States is looking to convert some plants to LNG production so it will looking to sell to the same Asian markets B.C. hopes to secure.
He says B.C. has many factors that make it attractive to investors:
- Low ambient temperatures
- Transportation routes (Prince Rupert Port offers shortest route from North America to China)
- Skills training plan
- First Nations engagement (many First Nations are on side)
- Fiscally responsible regime (offers stability)
Coleman says “there is room in the market for all of us, but the first one out will get the big win.”
Comments
Could this be why the city was so eager to buy land outside city limits? Are they still looking at that crazy idea?
Smaller government is better government and that means get out of the way of industry and business and let them (or the province which has far deeper pockets)take the risks rather than using local tax dollars to give big breaks to industry.
This sort of thing would be the reason, yes.
Crazy idea? Who said that they would annex the land? All they have to do is get it from the province for a nominal fee, remove it from the ALR if any is in it, zone it, and sell it.
The RDFFG is not getting off its behind in getting this area ready for such a development. RDFFG is a smaller government. Size has nothing to do with stupidity.
The province is not in the development field either. Neither are the feds. They goofed with was such projects as Pickering and Mirabel airports many decades ago and someone other than me likely has a much longer list.
This city has promised publicly to remove future heavy industry from the city airshed when the MDF plant property was zoned heavy industry. Since then they have been procrastinating on the actual commitment end.
THAT is why nothing happens here.
Naw, the city wanted to buy the land so we could pay property tax to the regional district for 20 years and then sell it to a bud for a loss
All those properties the city “owns” are liabilities. No amount of increase in value would match the property tax we as a city are foregoing, period.
So I guess you own no property because it would be a liability ….. so is a car or anything else you won for that matter … it has to be maintained, paid off if you bought it on credit …..
So you must be a hermit squatting on your part of provincial land that I pay for.
;-)
own, won, now …. strange how three letter put in different relationship to each other can change a meaning … ;-)
Why exactly would a city own property other than that required to operate the city?
Foregoing property tax and paying for annual maintenance on said property makes sense to you? Why would a city not then just own everything? Think man, we don’t need to own a piece of property for a PAC for 25 years before we even build it.. Turning them into temporary parking lots doesn’t even pay for the snow removal never mind clearing, servicing and paving.
Even this RDFFG property would require improvements to access and maintenance, then we would sell it for what we bought it for or less. We will pay tax on this property as taxpayers and then save what? Nothing on our taxes, even if this property paid 300k annually in tax after it sold we would not see any savings to our tax rolls as a PG taxpayer. You say we will save money because we also pay taxes to the regional district but if you think for a second our taxes will go down and they won’t just blow it on the dump then I see exactly why you are so gung-ho for a PAC. I am glad someone in city hall actually pulled their head out of their butt and cancelled the project.
Good post Slinky. I think if a large business wants to come to PG they must know what land could potentially be available, and it would be a simple matter of getting the zoning changed for a 20 billion dollar plant, which would happen in an area like the one the city was looking at.
A LNG plant would highly value that location because it is tied in with the existing transmission system for BC Hydro… with its own sub station already there put in decades ago when the property was slated for a future aluminum smelter. LNG plants need the same kind of electric requirements as an aluminum smelter. No doubt Vanderhoof is an ideal location as well.
PG I could argue our region has more access to Hydro power than the Northwest, and this very well could be a defining factor in where a LNG plant is located. This is under the assumption that the province is not going to require the LNG plants to produce their own electricity needs, and is in fact pinning for Site C for the purpose of supplying the LNG industry, and that Site C is not for the needs of fabricated shortages as they try to allude to in their justification for BC Hydro making that huge expense.
Time will tell, but one thing for sure is that Rich Colman isn’t telling the full truth on BC Hyrdo and Site C… if in fact he is also negotiating for an LNG plant on the BC Hydro grid.
I simply can not see an LNG plant burning NG for fuel to produce electricity to run the plant using the Prince George air-shed. So someone will need to drill down a little deeper on his hypothetical scenario.
Site C is needed to back up money sucking IPP’s as they are not firm generation. That being said base power would me more critical with the addition of LNG load.
If you think lumber, pulp and paper, wheat, and other goods, are being backed up waiting for transport on an already overloaded railway system, just wait until you add LNG to the rail transport mix!
The stampede to extract all of our natural resources out of the ground and off the land is on!!! Maybe it’s a good thing the railways system has become a bottleneck, slows down extraction to a reasonable and sustainable pace?
LNG will be shipped by pipeline, not rail.
“Why exactly would a city own property other than that required to operate the city?”
Exactly. Maybe you should investigate a bit more about what it takes to operate a city these days.
People settled here because the railway came, which brought us the ability to move goods, such as lumber out of here. All the towns which have died along the line east of here had a sawmill that put their lumber on the rail. When sawmills got bigger and the wood was further away, and we made paper from the chips left over, those towns died.
There was plenty of land around for companies to buy and start up businesses. They did not.
The same happened with many single horse towns such as Barkerville. When their horse died, so did they.
Prince George and other remote cities, even at 70 or 80 thousand are vulnerable. Many coal towns in Pennsylvania and steel towns in that area, as well as large cities like Detroit were vulnerable.
You want to survive as a town? Same as a business!! You have to find your niche in the marketplace and market you business …. market your town … can’t just sit there and let someone else do it.
It is as simple as that.
jb, LNG isn’t shipped by pipeline, Natural gas is. Thats why all the currant projects are on tide water. Once liquified it can be transported by rail and ship. I would be concerned with LNG tank cars going west through towns. This stuff can blow up real good.
More Liberal BS. Election is just around the corner.
Cheers
Just around the corner in 2017-18? Ok then.
Take all this LNG talk with a grain of salt.
The three largest exporters of LNG are `1. Qatar, 2. Malaysia 3. Australia.
Australia has a number of LNG plants under construction and they should be completed by 2016/17. This would make them the number one exporter of LNG in the world.
The USA has a number of plants under consideration for export and if they were all to go ahead they would become No. 1.
So, that’s the competition.
The other problem is how long will the gas glut last. While new wells are being drilled older wells are being depleted, and at the present rate, we are at best flat lined when it comes to production.
We should be giving some consideration to Canada’s long term need for natural gas as we will eventually run out. So why push the run out date??
This whole LNG debacle came about because of the Liberal Governments election promises, and at that time very little time and effort was put into looking at the long term economics of exporting LNG.
So is there an actual viable plan for exporting LNG for the next 30 years. (No major contracts have been signed) or are we still spewing election BS.???
Coleman is 100 percent sure oil based pricing is going to hold. I’m not. They are busy working on getting the Australian LNG done by floating plants, more stuff coming on stream, shale gas even found in east Africa. Putting all our eggs in this basket, not such a great idea.
PS. Australia has been exporting LNG for years, so has Qatar, Malaysia, and Russia.
What is happening is that Australia is building additional plants to increase its exports,.
Here is a plan lets do nothing, absolutely nothing.
Palpou, the last estimate I saw was the monteny play could supply Canada’s gas needs for 145 years. This will likely turn out to be one of the largest fields on the planet. You really have know clue as to the scope of this. These are long long term projects that will supply users for many decades. Not sure why you continually crap all over LNG. Where to late…not enough gas…blah blah. The global oil and gas companies see it differently. Now we need a competitve tax structure and then pricing negotiations can really begin.
If Palopu actually left PG and took a drive to Kitimat or Prince Rupert, he would see that things are happening. These companies aren’t spending millions for nothing.
Money talks and BS walks.
That all being said, the major thing slowing LNG development in BC and Canada is the glacial pace of government bureaucracy. While we twiddle our thumbs in red tape and ‘consultation’, other countries are winning the LNG footrace. Hopefully we can realize this before it’s too late.
Nova Scotia seems to be a bit further along in the LNG game. It has given environmental approval to build a plant which would use gas from New England as well as offshore gas from the Atlantic provinces. The supply deal was signed last year with a German company that wishes to make sure it has energy security from the existing deals with Russia.
Asia is not the only destination market and Canada is a big country with more players in the fossil fuel energy game than just BC and ALberta.
======== from the link ===============
Environment Minister Randy Delorey approved the $8.3-billion Guysborough venture, which is being developed by Pieridae Energy Canada Ltd., on Friday.
Construction of the LNG plant and export terminal could start next year, with the facility being operational in 2020.
Mark Brown, Pieridaeâs director of project development, said the environmental approval allows the company to begin front-end engineering and design work on the venture.
âThroughout spring and summer, weâre going to be on site in Goldboro to carry out a number of studies that will assist with understanding the project-specific requirements,â he said in an interview.
Netherlands-based CB&I is the main contractor on the early engineering and design work, which will take about a year to complete.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1195030-nova-scotia-approves-goldboro-lng-project
Doesn’t seem to be much likelihood we’ll run out of NG anytime in the near future. But will we be able to get a price for it in those ‘global markets’ that’s adequate to cover the development and ongoing operating costs, and one that returns something more than the incomes from a few ‘jobs’ to the ultimate owners of the resource?
If LNG developments actually occur in the manner the BC Liberals have projected, they are almost certain to raise all consumer prices here in BC.
While businesses will get to book bigger profits while these developments are happening as a result of this, it will be most likely be a very short term phenomenon. Since higher consumables prices will quickly create higher costs, and instead of every dollar earned having an increased purchasing power we’ll be back into the all too familiar mold where many are indeed making more money, but what they’ll be able to buy with it will take still much more again.
While those who aren’t making more money will be crying for more, as their numbers increase and the poverty line gallops further into what’s left of ‘middle class’ territory. Then comes the cry for a government that’ll induce greater ‘equality’ ~ by taking from those who are supposedly ‘rich’ (really the shrinking middle class who are still holding their own ~ the truly ‘rich’ always find ways to protect their position while it slowly erodes by itself), and we’re back to the dippers universalising poverty again.
Is that the best we can do? It’s tantamount to someone saying, after working their guts out trying to do something and finding out there’s nothing in the way of a return in it ~ in fact they’re further behind financially than they were when they started ~ that things could always be worse, they could have been unemployed! How long is misplaced optimism still optimism?
Dow7500. Your statement that the Monteny play would supply Canada’s needs for 145 years means nothing. If the majority of LNG is exported over the next 20/30 years to supply the needs of other Countries, then the question is how much will be left for Canadian needs after exports.
In any event the question is **moot** because there are many, many, Countries that are presently in the LNG business, and many more coming on stream. In fact the cost of LNG is getting out of hand, and the cost of building these facilities is also out of control. Some major projects are being terminated by the major oil Companies in Australia because of the cost. Furthermore there are not sufficient construction workers to build all the plants presently being planned.
Japan, who supposedly will buying a lot of Canada’s (BC) LNG is concerned about BC not having sufficient qualified workers to build these plants, and is suggesting that we import Japanese workers (who have the skills) to help in the construction.
Furthermore because of the higher cost of gas Japan is once again looking at starting up 14 Nuclear plants because it would be much cheaper than importing high cost LNG. If this happens they will import considerably less LNG.
Another aside is that with the proposed LNG plants being built around the world, it has become (or will become) a buyers market, and the price of LNG will fall. Therefore any projects being built on to-days prices could be in trouble.
So for **stargazers** like Dow7500 and Johnnybelt, who seem to base all their knowledge on newspaper articles, political propaganda, and Liberal hogwash, I say do some serious reading.
It should be apparent that the LNG boom was a result of a political campaign, and will now have to face the reality of world competition.
At best we will have to sell our gas at rock bottom prices to get these companies to build in BC, so that they can make huge profits,. No profits, no build.
Get a grip palpou. If im a stargazer than so are many of the biggest oil and gas companies on earth. The 145 year reserves are just the montney. We have massive gas reserves in the north, east coast, and the west without the addition of these NE BC basins. Canada has plenty of domestic supply.
I am not arguing that their will not be huge challanges. Tight labour, global pricing and competion. But many potential customers are interested in a stable gas supply for many decades, not for next year and we can provide it. Thats why the big players are in it. Get it? The oil sands started in the 70’s with syncrude and were money losers for a long time. The long term vision and the fact the area contained one of the largest reserves in the world ensured it would go ahead. Much of the same dynamics apply here. Huge reserves and big development challenges.
Japan may be restarting some nuclear plants, but do you think that with their ongoing nuclear crises, they will go all nuclear because it is marginally cheaper? How about China’s polution crises? They are waking up to the fact that they are literally killing their country with coal being one of the biggest culprits. Natural gas is not going away and will only increase in demand. This will allow room for many different suppliers, including Canada.
As for my opinion being based on Liberal propaganda? I call em as I see em. As I mentioned on another thread. You clearly have know idea of the scope of LNG and seem motivated to stay ignorant. Writing my opinion off as Liberal parroting just underscores your closed mind and a unhealthy hate for out currant government.
Keep em coming PP. Look forward to debunking many of your arguments.
Bang on, Dow. The oil and gas companies are putting up the money. They all must be delusional, right? (sarcasm).
All Palopu and the other naysayers can put up is a constant stream of BS. Too bad we can’t export it, or we’d all be rich.
Like everything in life, there are no guarantees and there are huge challenges ahead. At least they are moving in the right direction and not getting bogged down by the naysayers of the world.
From: the BC Oil & Gas Commission website report titled; Hydrocarbon and By-Products Reserves in British Columbia 2012, page 9.
âHowever, in 2007, the onset of horizontal drilling with hydraulic fracture stimulation, applied to unexploited shale gas and ultra low permeability gas reservoirs, created a new supply of gas, not just in B.C. but across North America. Gas prices dropped with the large influx of unconventional gas to market to less than $2/MCF. Despite the deflation in gas price, annual production in B.C. has risen 40 per cent from 2007 to 2012, with the majority, 60 per cent, now coming from unconventional reservoirs.â
http://www.bcogc.ca/node/11111/download
âTotal natural gas production for 2012 was 40.5 109 m3 (1.4 TCF), steady with 2011 annual production.â Page 9. While âAs of Dec. 31, 2012, the provinceâs remaining raw gas reserves are 1,138.5 109 m3, a 16 per cent increase over the 2011 value.â Page 8.
So, if we divide 1,138.5 109 m3 TOTAL NG RESERVES by 40.5 109 m3 ANNUAL PRODUCTION PER YEAR we get 28.11 years of natural gas extraction before our total NG reserves are gone! The Liberals are outright lying to us, 145 years is a âpipe dreamâ lie!!!
Congratulations Palopu, the facts support your assertions, you are right and Dow and Johnny are wrong!
Hmm. Do I listen to Peeps (aka ‘Beeps’) or the National Energy Board figures.
———–
The 23-page National Energy Board report assessed the Montney-area shale gas formation that spreads from northeastern B.C. near Fort Nelson to Fort St. John and across the B.C. border into northern Alberta.
The energy board, the B.C. Oil and Gas Commission, the Alberta Energy Regulator, and the B.C. Natural Gas Development Ministry all contributed to the report.
“The Montney’s marketable unconventional gas resource is one of the largest in the world,” the report says.
“While most of it is located in British Columbia, Alberta’s share is still large. To further illustrate the size of the Montney, total Canadian natural gas demand in 2012 was 88 billion (cubic metres or 3.1 trillion cubic feet), making the Montney gas resource equivalent to 145 years of Canada’s 2012 consumption. In addition, the Montney is already considered one of Canada’s most economic gas plays.”
——-
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/federal-report-finds-b-c-s-natural-gas-reserves-double-previous-estimates-clark-1.1531618
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