Hart Highlands Residents Question Sewer Project
.html)
Prince George, B.C.- Some residents of the Hart Highlands are looking for more answers to their questions about the sewer extension project that is scheduled to start on Monday.
(at right, properties involved in sewer extension project marked in blue)
In a letter to City Council, Hart Highlands area resident Kevin Brown says residents have several questions about the project that have yet to be answered “Why there wasn’t grant money available to offset the costs, as there has been in past sanitary sewer and water projects done throughout the city of Prince George. Specific questions around the logistics and timing of the project, what do we home owners need to do to prepare for hook up to the main sewer line as we move from septic to sewer? When exactly are the portions of our streets going to be done?”
The cost per home owner is a concern. The City says the overall estimated cost of the project is $2.42 million. Property owners don’t feel comfortable knowing they are dealing with an estimate “ You know, past construction projects, if you encounter something you didn’t expect, well, that’s when the costs start to rise.” Property owners are each to pay $24,200 each to cover that estimated cost, as well as $5-$10 thousand dollars for hook up, depending on the layout of the home.
The residents want to know why this project was not put out to tender, a competitive bid process that could have reduced the overall cost.
The City has offered a plan to property owners that would see them pay the bill over time, adding another $1608.00 to the annual tax bill. “It’s quite a hardship for those on retirement or fixed incomes, and there are many of those types of families involved in this project” says Brown.
Brown says a lot of the property owners are upset about the lack of information, “it’s only been recently that we got a letter from the City informing us that it ( the project) officially starts on Berwick Street on Monday coming up, June the 9th and the next information meeting isn’t until Tuesday evening at the Hart Highlands School, which prompted many people to say well this is in keeping with the communications process around the project because we’re having the information meeting the day after the project gets underway.”
Residents are in favour of the project says Brown, “It needs to be done” however, he says even when this project is completed, he believes there will still be some 300 homes in the Hart Highlands that will require sewer services because they were allowed to be built in the 1970’s with septic services versus sewer services.
Brown says some of the neighbours who have been in the area since it was first developed, say there were promises from the City in the 70’s that sewer would be installed in the area in a few short years, “so the expectation that septic would be a short term solution had been there from the time the Hart Highlands was developed.”
For now, the residents are sending off letters to Council, hopeful it will be a topic of discussion at Monday night’s regular meeting. However, the project is expected to have started by that time, and while the City has agreed to hold another information meeting on Tuesday, as Brown says “The horses have already left the barn.”
Comments
I almost fell out my chair laughing so hard…..
Hopefully the people of this neighbourhood will stick together and not allow any work to be done until the problems and meeting are held and they have more answers.
Haldi people were also promised water and sewer in amalgamation and they still have nothing.
Question would be to ask WHERE did the $6 MILLION go the city was given?
Articles like these show that there needs to be more accountability with city administration. Some administration have left for one or more reasons, obviously there needs to be a clean up!
It is like “trust me” from a used car salesman.
I know someone who just sold their house in that area. I’ll bet they are glad now that they did. Does that mean the value of those homes will go up $24000?
Oh boy. This city seems to not tender things out and picks the first available company to complete the job at worst cost available to them because the residents will foot the bill if it takes 10 years to pay off. What a joke. I’ll never move back out to the Hart if majority of the homes use septic tanks only to be upgraded to the city sewer and pay well over $3,000 a year for taxes. The most neglected area of the city. I lived out there when I was growing up, not sure if Crown Drive uses sewer or septic.
This sounds completely illegal. How can they do this? Was this requested by the residents or shoved down their throat?
It’s like driving your used car around then having a dealership say,
“Here, we traded in your car for you, the price tag is $25K and you have no choice. You are not allowed to drive your used car any more.”
If residents have a properly functioning septic system, you should be able to turn this down.
They had a vote Hummer and the requisite number of households voted to go ahead with the project. But, that’s not the issue here.
In my opinion, this project is setting a dangerous precedent. What’s next? If you want your sidewalk fixed the city will find the contractor (sans bid) and charge you for the work?
Actually since they are using CITY of PRINCE GEORGE employees it doesn’t need to ever go to tender. IF the job was being done by an outside contractor the city would have been forced to put it out to tender. So there is nothing to see here other than some residents griping about the costs after they voted in favor of the project. If the majority of property owners had voted against the project, the city would not be proceeding.
Posted by: NyteHawwk on June 6 2014 3:50 PM
Actually since they are using CITY of PRINCE GEORGE employees it doesn’t need to ever go to tender. IF the job was being done by an outside contractor the city would have been forced to put it out to tender. So there is nothing to see here other than some residents griping about the costs after they voted in favor of the project. If the majority of property owners had voted against the project, the city would not be proceeding.
—-
Using city of PG workers! Good grief the thing will never get done now.
However, one would think the the people footing the bill would have a say in who does the work. They are, after, footing the entire bill.
Posted By Axman
Using city of PG workers! Good grief the thing will never get done now.
However, one would think the the people footing the bill would have a say in who does the work. They are, after, footing the entire bill.
————
If you do some research most of the Water and Sewer projects done in PG right up until the late 90s were always done by city crews.. And to your other statement, local initiatives such as this are handled by the city, managed by the city, and the city gets to choose whether to use in house crews, or contract it out.
Posted by: NyteHawwk on June 6 2014 4:15 PM
.
————
If you do some research most of the Water and Sewer projects done in PG right up until the late 90s were always done by city crews.. And to your other statement, local initiatives such as this are handled by the city, managed by the city, and the city gets to choose whether to use in house crews, or contract it out.
————-
Except in this case, the city isn’t paying for the project so they should have little to no say in who does the work.
City Hall is very closed mouth about everything. They are always looking for ways to cover their poor planning and inefficiency. City Hall has no communication skills whatsoever! I wish bureaucrats would stand for election too. Then we could get rid of the dead wood!!!
Haldi folks are running for the door!
Prior to belonging to city – residents were under Nechacko District – the one condition in joining the city voted by everyone including PG residents that sewer would be coming to Hart Highlands within the next 5 years and the city received almost $6 milion to do the service – so where did the $$ disapear to? Still waiting to hear that answer.
^^^^The Province gave the city $6 million for all the amalgamated areas. It was not just for sewer.
Those kind of dollars back then would more than pay for sewer and water for most of the areas. Now it would only cover if you are lucky 2 smaller areas.
This planning dept of the city needs a clean out big time. And how about hiring people that do not have “friends” in the city?
If the Haldi people can get their 60% signatures they then go to city hall.
City Council and mayor of the time will have to give the people a damn good reason(s) to stay in the city.
Whether it be a yay or nay from council it is not councils final decision – it is the province. Can anyone think of a good reason to stay in the city?
Doubt it, and I don’t think the mayor and council can either. There was very little money spent by the city for that area.
Good luck Haldi!
It took me 10 seconds to find the documentation and links regarding this project that answer almost every question asked here on the City of Prince George website. It took another 10 minutes to read them all.
They met with and held 2 votes on the project, which was initiated by the residents. It says in the first meeting, that of the 94 parcels in question, they had 74 votes, of which, 65 were in favour of proceeding and 9 were against. Then after the project was planned and a cost estimate was arrived at, they held the formal vote, and it passed. Signed sealed and delivered end of story. Seems to me, the City has been pretty above board about its plans and the details. This project has been going on for months, but now all of a sudden, there are questions the weekend before it’s to start? Good grief. Grow up people, and learn to read. On the main document that lays out the project plan, including where they’re starting and when approximately they’re going to transition to the other areas, at the bottom was the name, number & e-mail address of the City contact person! What more do you want, the administration folks to come to your house and bake you cookies and rub your feet?
Mr. Brown sounds like a whiner to me. The requirements of Local Area Service are very stringent and looks like all those requirements have been met. I mean they’re allowing people to take 20 years to repay. Your neighbours wanted this Kev and it looks like you fell asleep at the switch while all the negotiating was going on. Too bad for you I guess. Zero sympathy here.
The vote was a joke. In the final vote they got approval by 50%+1 and did not give the option for a no vote. You either mailed back the form signed for approval or didn’t. If 50%+1 mailed back a signed form the project was a go… but how does anyone ever get confirmation how there vote was registered either ya or nay? As more people realized they would be stuck with the full cost the support wasn’t what it was at the stage where feasibility studies were done.
For my house I paid $250 every 3-5 years to have my septic tank pumped out and had no problems with the septic field. I also paid another $2700 a year in property taxes not including the utility bill.
After the new tax, assuming the city has no cost over runs, my property tax will likely go up but even at $2700 a year its rich. Then add in the $1600 sewer tax for the next twenty years, $1000 a year for city utility bill, and $1000 a year for the sewer hook up (they quoted me $15,000 if I choose to hook up the city sewer line at the street)…. Suddenly one has a City tax bill that doubles to $6300 a year.
The cost of this project for my home would be 50 times the cost of having a septic field pumped every 5-years. This project was about bailing out those that have 6-bedroom homes on a 1/8 of an acre lot, and thus septic problems.
The whole process destroyed the home values through the uncertainty in costs. Even now the city can only estimate what the total cost will be, and could not give a ceiling as to how high the cost over runs will go. Who would buy a 1200sf house with minimum $6300 a year in city taxes… and an even greater potential liability lay ahead.
At least if the project was tendered, then it would have a final cost and would not be an open ended contract full of more surprises from the city and unknown unknowns for the homeowners.
Having the city do the work allows the city to include this project in their budget for work that should be done to other parts of the city, but are deferred, and yet it boost the cities bragging rights when it comes to the road paving budget and what not. The street has never been paved since amalgamation, so it was due, yet through this LAS project the city gets off on its responsibility to the tax payers and sticks the bill of the repaving as part of the sewer upgrade… and the homeowner effectively pays twice, once through their property taxes, and again as a 100% liability for the LAS cost.
Furthermore, when one can work on a dedicated project they can keep costs down working efficiently.
If city crews are doing the job they still have to answer calls for water main breaks elsewhere in the city, and so its more of a make work project for the city in between their main priority, which will not be this project. This is where the cost over runs will pile up setting up and re setting up every time they return to the work site, and or pull equipment out for other city emergencies. yet they couldn’t find it in their hearts to at least give a guaranteed cost for the final bill….
Furthermore if one is a large multinational corporation they don’t get this treatment from the city.
Did CN get put with 100% cost for their share of a River Road dyke. Hell no. The $12 million dollar bill for the River Road dyke was put forward by the city as a LAS upgrade paid for by PG home owners on their property tax bill. So why isn’t CN and the River Road businesses expected to pay a small part of their property taxes for the Wallace sewer upgrades? Why the double standard?
Instead after the community shuts the project down through the undemocratic Alternate Approval Process that is heavily slanted against democratic accountability (I think it was a first time the AAP actually worked to stop a project in all of BC)… so the city takes the back door route and implements a rain water run off scheme to the rest of the city home owners so as to subsidize CN and big industry on River Road with the $12 million dollar dyke project under the cloak of a rain water run off problem that doesn’t get to go to a vote through the AAP. Hugely insulting as a home owner with a ditch for storm water run off that has to pay yet another fee for subsidizing big business projects, while these homeowners are left with the bag to pay for everything.
Welcome to the City of PG a corrupt mess of an administration. IMO
$6,300 for a 1200 sq ft shack. LOL. Too funny. Would it be framed in exotic teak? Good grief. If you want to be even remotely taken seriously, you have to stop with hyperbole.
First, I presume you’re already getting a water bill. I haven’t read anything about you guys still being on well water. So, you’re already paying for water & garbage removal on your utility bill. All they’re going to do is add the sewer component once it’s hooked up, which will actually add value to your house. My understanding is that the utility bill for older houses like yours run around $1,000 total for the year, a bargain considering you probably spend more for cable.
You must have one heck of a 1200 sq ft home to be paying $2700 for a place that has to be at least 40 years old. My house is bigger than that, is less than 4 years old and doesn’t cost anywhere near that. The only way that would make any sense, is if this isn’t your primary residence and therefore is not eligible for a home owner’s grant. Or maybe you just forgot about that $770 discount?
So, let’s just call your property tax bill $2000 for the sake of argument. Add to that $1000 in utilities and you have a total of $3,000 in annual taxes and utilities, not $6300.
That other $1800 you would have to pay is not a tax, it’s actually a loan.
And if you’d actually read some of the facts instead of blathering on incoherently, the City is going to pick up the tab for some of the repaving because of the age of the road.
Also, there is no way that installing a sewer line to the property line would cost $15,000. That’s ridiculous. You can build a whole basement for $15k.
I just wonder why, if they put in water services there, they didn’t put sewer in at the same time? I remember them doing that in the late fifties. They always but them both in at the same time. Seems to make a lot of sense.
If you are looking for someone to blame e1 you need to find a mirror. I think that you said on this site that you bought the place thinking that it was on full city services and only found out after buying it was not.
Documentation from real estate agent would have plainly stated it was on septic system and a full inspection of the property before purchase confirmed it.
If you failed to read it and do the proper DD then the blame is yours alone.
Sine Nomine a loan is a contract entered into by choice.
The LAS cost is a tax levy that is not optional and is governed under the tax code. It is not a favor helping a poor man out. If one opts not to pay, then the same ramifications apply as if one was to not pay their property taxes. Does this tax have a sunshine date, yes it does at 20-years.
opps… sunset date not sunshine date….
lonesome: “If you are looking for someone to blame e1 you need to find a mirror. I think that you said on this site that you bought the place thinking that it was on full city services and only found out after buying it was not.”
I was going to say something similar, but you beat me to it.
Story on Westwood and Ferry condo fire.
“Comment Posted by: Eagleone on April 30 2014 1:22 PM
This is a surprise. I had considered moving into there recently when I sold my house, but it didn’t have enough storage space for my needs.”
Sounds like you don’t even have a dog in the fight any more other than the money you likely lost to dump the property.
Failure to do do proper due diligence on what is the biggest purchase in most peoples lives does not bode well for a potential candidate for council. But I guess if someone who can’t pay his property taxes in a timely manner is the head of the finance committee then I guess anything is possible.
Honestjoe: “City Hall has no communication skills whatsoever!”
Are the two (or three) new PR officers which Green hired still in training?
Comments for this article are closed.