Plenty of Questions at Hart Highlands Meeting
Residents take a seat as meeting gets underway
Prince George, B.C.- There was no shortage of questions at the Hart Highlands Elementary School last night, as residents gathered to talk about the sewer installation project.
They had told the City they wanted answers to their questions, and Superintendent of Operations Bill Gaal and two of the project staff, were on hand to provide those answers, or at least try.
Residents in the Hart Highlands voted 61% in favour of having the sewer system installed. For most residents, the septic systems in their yards, are reaching the end of their life span, but the cost of the new system is, for some, astronomical.
"I am on a pension" said one man who told the City Staff on hand, he doesn't know how he is going to be able to pay for the new service.
At $24 thousand dollars, plus another $6-$10 thousand to have their homes plumbed and a line installed to connect to the main, putting in a new septic field at a cost of $20 thousand is looking more attractive.
Some residents at the meeting brought up the promises made in 1976, when the Hart Highlands amalgamated with the City. The promise of sewer service was made, and some residents say $6 million was collected for that project, yet, nothing was done. “What did you do with the money?” asked one resident. It is a question Bill Gaal can’t answer. He wasn’t with the City back then.
One resident rose to say “I think we’re being punished for the City not doing what it should have done 30 years ago. I’ve paid my taxes on time every year for the past 25 years. I’ve seen the City spend millions on things I never asked for or wanted. The City has never done anything to improve my neighbourhood.”
Another popular question was “Why isn’t the City applying for a grant to reduce the cost?” Gaal explained that there just isn’t any grant money available for this kind of project. Will there be such a fund in the future? Possibly, but Gaal made it clear that there is no guarantee the project would meet the criteria.
Residents wanted to know why they were paying for the wages of the City workers who will be doing the work on this project, aren’t these workers already paid by City taxes? Gaal explained that this particular group of workers is paid from funds gathered through the sewer utility payment. Since the residents don’t pay that utility ( yet) they are not paying the wages for these workers.
Residents also pressed for answers on why this project was not put out to tender, where the cost might have been reduced. Gaal says there is so much work going on in the resource sector these days, companies are really not interested in this kind of work.
City councilors Lyn Hall, Frank Everitt, Albert Koehler and Dave Wilbur attended the session.
When asked if this project ( which was supposed to have started on Monday) could be stopped, Bill Gaal explained that Council approved a bylaw to create the project, Council could always rescind that bylaw.
Comments
Asking the residents to pay for a project that should be paid for by the city is just asking for trouble. Where will the city draw the line? Do you want a new sidewalk? Pay for it yourself?
The city just blew 40 million plus on a police station, 16 million on Kin 1, 3 million on new digs for their “workers” and is about to spend even more money on the winter games but they won’t pay for basic infrastructure? That is ridiculous.
The only thing that is ridiculous is peoples expectations. I’m not paying for your sewer service. I paid for mine in the price I paid for my home, passed on to me from the developer. If you didn’t realize those savings when you bought your house with only septic, well that’s on you.
Your neighbours asked for this and the majority approved the project knowing the price tag. I don’t care if you now have buyers remorse. If you didn’t participate in the process then you have no right to complain now and you certainly can’t expect others to pay your bills for you.
This has never been about how the majority voted. The issue is how it will impact the residents both positively and negatively. We have residents in this area who are experiencing septic field failure and they need help – having a sewer installation will solve their problems. The cost of this project will impact all the residents, but for the residents living on fixed income (and there are many seniors who have lived in this area for decades), they will unfortunately face a greater hardship.
At the time of amalgation (1975), the city received approx. $6 million for sewer and all residents were to have it installed within 5 years. Where did the $$ disappear?
Why should the affected homeowners pay for 25% of the cost of repaving the street? If a street needs repaving because of the famous potholes does the city notify all the homewoners that reapving will occur and the cost will 25% to them?
Are not the wages of the employees included in this year’s budget for their department?
Gaal is a smooth talker – everyone should be aware of that fact from the last set of negotiations that occurred between the employees and the city!
City planners and council continue to allow new growth in areas that have stressed septic systems. The two most recent are the Hart ( can’t remember the subdivision) and Haldi Rd. When the residents of Haldi rd. raised the concern of water and septic they were called nimbys. Stolz asked who would be responsible if the system failed. He was told Norther Health and this seemed to be just fine and dandy with him. They were off the hook. The CITY needs to be held responsible for past, present and future decisions.
” I was not with the city”, perhaps Bill Gaal thinks it is a personal attack. The jist of the meeting was, what happened to the original intent of almagamation with the city.
Yes, the money was squandered away, but that does not alleviate the city from its obligation.
Sine Nomine: Please pull in your horns and cover your fangs! Wow, your real name isn’t Shari Greene is it?
Sine: “The only thing that is ridiculous is peoples expectations. I’m not paying for your sewer service. I paid for mine in the price I paid for my home, passed on to me from the developer. If you didn’t realize those savings when you bought your house with only septic, well that’s on you.”
Good point. I’m trying to figure out why I need to chip in for sewer service for some neighborhood on the Hart because of what the City might or might not have promised years ago.
Like you said, my house has the services and the price when I bought it reflected that. Presumably, the people who bought homes without certain services didn’t have those costs reflected in their home prices.
So you mean that various groups of city workers are paid out of specific fields of taxation? That’s rich. I wonder which tax exactly, the mayor and heads like Bill Gall are paid out of? Talk about creative bookkeeping.
Seems to me that the City came up with $6 Million for water, sewer, lights, paving, etc; as their share for the Boundry Road Industrial Development. Perhaps someone should pro-rate the cost to see how it ranks with what they are charging residents of the Hart.
In addition one should note that they fell over backwards to do Boundry Road, kissing every butt from hell to high water, so that they could generate **new** tax revenue, however for those who have been paying taxes for years without decent services, they just ignore.
Perhaps the Hart should join with Haldi Road, and look at going back to the Regional District.
If 60% voted in favour, why are there so many surprised by the project?
That tells me that:
1 there actually was no vote
2 the voter notification process is flawed
3 the city’s communications department is not performing as it should
Or people just never paid attention which is most likely the case here.
If we are going on the idea that neighborhoods should pay for their own improvements, then I’m wondering if everyone in North Nechako will be footing the bill for their bike lane that they demanded and got approved? I would think that basic sewer for all should be more important than a bike lane for a few. I hope those residents keep up the pressure on the city and demand to know where that 6 million is, and make sure that and the interest on 6 million is put toward the project. Taxes go up and up and what is anyone getting for it? The services sure aren’t improving.
There was money for this project several years ago that was used elsewhere. So now the city has received money for infistructure and they are going to use to shore up the river bank so why cant that money be used else where. Residents were told that they were not paying the wages of the water and sewer employees because we were not receiving that service, we are not receiving snow removal service either and we are paying for that. Not only that there have been some previous precedents set for the cost of putting in these services for instance North Meadows and Nixon Crescent. This was never put to tender and so we don’t know if it could be done cheaper by someone else. When I am paying for work I like to get a couple of quotes so I know I am getting the best deal. If we are paying the city workers wages anyway at 30.+ per hour we should be able to choose who is going to do the work. Yes there were several questions put to Mr Gaal but he was very political and didn’t answer any of them
Posted by: Ruralmom1 on June 11 2014 9:05 AM
If we are going on the idea that neighborhoods should pay for their own improvements, then I’m wondering if everyone in North Nechako will be footing the bill for their bike lane that they demanded and got approved?
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Good question. Who’s paying for all the paving on streets that I don’t use? Why am I paying to get the downtown plowed in the winter when I don’t shop there?
Posted by: Ruralmom1 on June 11 2014 9:05 AM
If we are going on the idea that neighborhoods should pay for their own improvements, then I’m wondering if everyone in North Nechako will be footing the bill for their bike lane that they demanded and got approved? I would think that basic sewer for all should be more important than a bike lane for a few. I hope those residents keep up the pressure on the city and demand to know where that 6 million is, and make sure that and the interest on 6 million is put toward the project. Taxes go up and up and what is anyone getting for it? The services sure aren’t improving.
Not every resident, not even close to the majority of the residents on North Nechako signed the petition regarding adding the bike lanes. It’s for the safety and well being of all residents who come out to this part of town and ride and not just the residents of North Nechako. I would bet that most of the riders in the North Nechako area are from other parts of town and are there to use Pidherny etc.
Residents also pressed for answers on why this project was not put out to tender, where the cost might have been reduced. Gaal says there is so much work going on in the resource sector these days, companies are really not interested in this kind of work.
What a crock of BS – I guess it doesn’t bother him because he doesn’t have to pay for the cost.
If this was put out to tender , you would be surprised that there are many companies who are looking for work or who are interested. The idea or motion that the work is further north and no one is available is another crock of BS. Seeing that I am paying for this it should have gone to tender.
“The City has never done anything to improve my neighbourhood.â
True enough!
In 1981 the city installed sewers and storm sewers along Highland Drive and through Nixon (?) to connect up with the system. Since then, zilch.
One (!) sidewalk was constructed and it still is too narrow, way too much slanted, one power pole right in the middle of it and it is mostly inaccessible to baby buggies and electric wheelchairs as there are still too many raised curbs.
Curbs are badly chewed up from snow clearing, street signs are leaning out of the vertical and repairs are barely ever done.
The financial records of the city would show where the money went in 1976, all one has to do is make a little effort and do some research! It was entirely predictable that residents would ask that question!
this story truly reflects my attitude towards the crooks who run our city. lived on a side road running off of north Nechako which was in the process of running the sewer line up north Nechako. city sewer was offered to those homes with frontage on north Nechako even though they did not have a north Nechako address and the rest of us tax paying citizens were told to go pound sand. then after the purchase of my home my septic field is done, I phone the city saying I would like to hook up to city sewer services they tell me no way put in a holding tank so I ask the idiot would you buy a house in the city with a holding tank he says probably not. so bottom line they dig a line to the edge of my property around 20 feet in length and charged me twenty thousand dollars to do this, then they tell me I cannot defer payment over a few years I must pay the full amount right now. so I have no love loss for these anal retentive pencil dicks all I can say to you folks is good luck and looking back maybe I should have taken the city to court
I was going to buy a home in this area 12 yrs ago. This has been no secret,I was told about it then. Buyer beware….
Perhaps my recollection is not exactly perfect, but prior to amalgamation the entire region north of the Nechako Bridge, and that Includes the North Nechako area had no Sewer services of any kind, and most of the area had no water service. Parts of North Nechako were connected to their own water system which has now been taken over by the city and vastly improved. Who do you think ran the sewer mains up the hart, up to hart highlands and as far as Chief Lake Road? Yeah…it was the city, and I’m pretty darn sure it costed one hell of a lot more than $6 Million. So lets not pee all over each other while we speculate about all the nefarious goings on at City Hall. This is not the first Local Area service installation of this kind, and I’m sure it will not be the last. Oh and by the way…it wasn’t the city that initiated the project. It came from the residents that will benefit from it!
Yes NyteHawk your recollection is not perfect – residents in Hart Highlands – Phase 1& 2 have had water and garbage collection from the very start and roads were plowed in the wintertime – at the beginning everyone belong to the Nechako Improvement District till all taxpayers in PG and College Heights voted for the Hart residents to join the city in 1975.
In my experience when the city decided to do the work instead of putting it out to tender the price was way higher that contractors we spoke to would have done it for. To top it all off they came back for more money….another 10 %….and we had no choice but to pay it. I bet most businesses would love to be able to pull that off. “Sorry, your new tires are 10 % more than we quoted you”. These poor people are going to get ripped off. And then the city will come after them for the new storm drain tax too.
It’s funny how many people seemed to support City workers getting wage increases. Now they’re ‘too expensive’ to do this work. Hmmm…
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