200+/- people out to a ‘support the BCTF rally… given there are approximately 2100 teachers in SD.57, that is pathetic. 90% of the teachers could not show up to support their own cause. Maybe they were too busy marking exams and making lesson plans.

nice little brainwashed kids on the line. Too bad they only get ONE side of the story during their indoctrination.

200? Lol. Was told it was a huge rally?
Iker and his cronies must have yelled really loud and fist pumped a lot to make up for the small crowd.

Next they will want a credited degree in protesting as part of their education
. Sad the kids are used as pawns.

Victoria must be saving a lot of dough not paying wages and benefits. I wonder if they will deposit these wages in a “high interest” savings account (if there is such a thing anymore) for the teachers when they return to work? Maybe in a perfect world. We’ll see. Remember, folks. Every time you walk out of yer front door AND yer not going to work, it costs ya money.

Well, it’s nice to see that these three children are getting such an informative and unbiased view of the situation. Not!

And what makes Aaron Ekman an expert on the current situation? Probably nothing, but what the heck, he’s just another Labour leader feeding from the teets of the Dues paying membership, and being another big mouth at the rally helps him justify his strike pay!

Wait a minute, I’ll bet you that he’s still collecting a salary!!

Nice to see the ususals on here spouting the same old same old.

These people live in this town. They shop at the stores, buy bread and milk, pay their taxes (unlike some councilors) make car payments, take their kids to soccer etc. like the rest of us. Show a little respect.

Respect is earned. Is that a constant or can ya take a holiday from it?

Pierre Trudeau :
`Justin, Never attack the individual. We can be in total disagreement with someone without denigrating them as a consequence.’

Oh oh quoting Pierre, now the cause is lost.

That is a great quote, terricite. Those with weak arguments tend to focus on attacking the individual rather then defending their own view point.

Trudeau…never attack the individual when you can give them all “the finger”. I remember that.

Oops. Sorry. Off target.

Can’t we just eliminate schools and buy each kid a new I phone .Everything they need to know is just a google question away .

So, the teacher’s who read this – correct me if I’m wrong. Currently, you walk into your class – of say 28 kids, 2 have behavioral problems, 3 speak English as a second language, 5 have parents who don’t give a crap, and then there’s the rest. That isn’t a class that’s difficult to teach – that’s a class that’s impossible to teach.

The solution isn’t higher wages for you, or TA’s in the classroom, the solution is to abandon the great social experiment.

If you’ve got a TA for the two behaviorally challenged kids, and every time they flip out, they disturb the other kids, and we send the other kids the message – act badly, you get lots of attention – so, move all those kids to their own class, and have people especially trained to deal with them.

The ESL kids – can’t learn anything until they understand the language of instruction – and there’s no way the teacher can do that and still look after the rest – so, off you go to a program that is heavier on teaching English, so you’ve got a fighting chance to succeed. And the rest of those kids, well, now you’ve got a class you can teach.

I guess this seems simplistic and un-Canadian but I don’t see how harming the majority is justified for the sake of the minority.

200 people = massive rally?? Maybe in Hixon. BCTF, have your fight with the government, justified or not, but putting political placards on kids is almost as tasteless as penning a letter to the Citizen & putting your 10 year old kid’s name on it.

Remember last time the teachers went on strike ? Clark said they saved 38 million in wages, then later under big fanfair she put 30 million into education. What a joke What happened to the other 8 million, paying off credit cards maybe ?

Go teachers go, this government has been pulling money away for education every year, and then say they are bargaining in good faith, after they ripped up a previous contract.. Doesn’t sound like good faith to me.

Facts –
Christy Clark tore up teachers’ collective agreement in 2002. This eliminated any protection on class size and composition, cut supports for kids with special needs, and stripped teachers’ right to bargain these important issues.
The government ignored the Supreme Court ruling that stated this was unconstitutional, in 2011?
They legislated a “cooling off” period and prevented teachers’ from legally striking.
They have ignored a second Supreme Court ruling in 2014 that reaffirmed their actions were unconstitutional.
The government locked teachers out of working with children before and after school and at lunch. Teacher job action DID NOT affect the children prior to the lockout.

So, Huh, my “brainwashed” children know the facts about this issue. They are well-informed, listen to the news (ALL of it, not just my opinion) and they are standing up for their education. I didn’t force them to go to the rally last night… they wanted to. They know I leave for work before they wake up, that I am home after 5:00pm with armloads of work to complete after they go to bed at night. They see me at the school on the weekends, and they see their own teachers at their school when they go to the playground on Sunday afternoon. They KNOW how hard their teachers have to work to make school a safe, fun and educational experience for them. So, please don’t judge me or my children for standing up for education in this province.

I believe that were you faced with such disrespectful treatment by your employer, you would also stand up for yourself.

Lori Unger

Taking class size right out of the picture Iker and his band of incompetent negotiators have painted themselves into a corner with their salary and benefit demands that are over double of what other public sector unions have settled for.

The cupe workers in the same schools have settled and heard something this morning about some health care workers doing the same. There is no point in the bctf begging for a mediator unless they are prepared to settle something along the same lines.

Trying to tie class size and composition into current talks is also pointless as no matter which side prevails this fall the case is destined to be ultimately decided in the supreme court-another year or two down the road.

CUPE – 6.75% over 4 years.
BCTF – 8% over 5 years (1 extra year, 1.25%)
Not double, but along the same lines.

Class size and composition cannot be removed from bargaining. It has been ruled twice by the Supreme Court to be left in as it is essential to learning.

This is the difference between BCTF and other Unions. Salary/benefits are not the hang up. Working/learning conditions are.

The Supreme Court will rule in BCTF favor for the third time. The government has already said they will disregard this ruling for the third time. We are living in a democratic society where the government thinks they are above the law. ?????

lunger

the bctf are also asking for $5,000 signing bonus and cola increases bringing net total to something approaching 16%

Increased benefits demanded include full payment for fertility treatments and $3000 a year for massages.

The decisions of lower courts are essentially meaningless when a higher court accepts the grounds for appeal. SCOC will have the final say in this matter.

lunger, I agree that the base salary increase the BCTF is asking for is not an issue, but I believe the additional benefits being requested are. The 5K signing bonus, the top up on maternity benefits, the decreasing of the grid by a couple levels and numerous other benefits are an issue. All of these form a part of the total compensation to teachers, and cost to tax payer. These are not calculated into the 8% over 5 years that you claim.

5000 signing bonus = 7.1% further increase over 5 years for someone making $70,000/year.

8% + 7.1% increase = 15.1% increase/5 years = 3.02% increase

Who gets a 3.02% yearly increases in this day and age.

3.02% doesn’t even factor in the benefit increases.

These increases are unsustainable for the taxpayer of BC!! I will for someone else if the government caves to these demands!!

47,000 health care workers just agreed to a contract with the government, another example that the government can negotiate a contract that both sides can live with.

Too bad there will likely be no summer school as the bctf needs a refresher course in labour negotiations 101. One settlement in some 30 years shows that they are the problem.

The mid point of the salary grid in PG is closer to $60,000, making that signing bonus about 8.3% plus the other 8% for 16.3%. Ms Lunger, I appreciate your attempting to set the record straight, but every teacher says the same thing 8% over 5 years, and stays quiet about the $5,000.00 signing bonus – which to me, is a little deceitful. It’s like a car dealer who says you can lease this brand new F350 for $500.00 a month, and in small print, as long as you put a $20,000 deposit down. And then there’s complete silence on the enhanced benefit package.

Truth is Ms. Lunger, you are likely one of the teacher’s who does deserve a raise, does deserve more classroom help, but your union has done a bang up job protecting teachers who are mailing their effort in, and it’s difficult for me and other taxpayer’s to get excited about putting anymore money in their pockets. Personally, I’d like to see teacher’s get an hourly wage for everything they do, so that committed teacher’s get paid well, and not so committed get paid for what they do.

Ski50

Yes hard to show a lot of sympathy for teachers when asking for a 3.0% salary increase/year. Even harder to support when then manipulate the numbers to say they aren’t asking for a lot.

It’s pretty clear why Vince Ready declined mediating this dispute!! I don’t think Vince Ready is going to tell the government that 3.0% is a fair deal for the province and taxpayers of this province!!

Ready declined because he decided that BOTH parties aren’t near a deal.

Thanks to Ms Unger for standing up for the stupid comments leveled at her “brainwashed” kids. This fight needs to be had with this government. It has given too much to business and not enough to the systems.
Business wants good employees? Educated people are better employees. Better tax payers, better earners, better workers.

Fund the system to at least the Canadian average, pay the teachers at least updated cost of living, hire teachers/TA’s etc. and get back to running the government.

This government is also short changed Legal Aid. Lawyers are lining up to walk away from helping under-privileged folks. Another kick in the head to the humans of this province.

Good Luck to you Ms Unger and please thank Paige and Erin standing up, showing thier faces and for not hiding behind a keyboard, cutting and pasting rhetoric like it’s the gospel truth. You should be proud of your kids.

@PGguy1234

It seems that ONE side can reach a deal with bcgeu, cupe, heu, and other public sector unions but not the bctf. Hmmmmm I wonder where the problem is.

The other unions aren’t bargaining for working conditions and money isn’t the sticking point with the BCTF.

If money isn’t the issue why doesn’t BCTF just accept the current government wage offer + eliminate all the extra benefit requests. Then focus on class composition issue. I would be supporting teachers then.

They bargained and were given those elements of the agreement in an earlier settlement. It was then stripped by the government after the fact. The courts decided that it is within the teacher’s charter rights to bargain those conditions. The government did nothing and were found in contempt. The BCPSEA has the conditions back on the table and are asking the teachers to take the new deal and tell the courts to stop.

Does that sound remotely fair to anyone on here? If it does then lord help you if you need to do anything with, for or against the Government of BC.

Teachers don’t become teachers for the money. It’s not about the money. The numbers are there because its a negotiation. You shove a large number out and you accept a smaller number back.

A 70,000 dollar a year teacher is a menace to the taxpayer.

A 200,000.00 per year MLA is a hero.

A 190,000.00 per year lawyer is a pretty $hitty lawyer.

Nice to see Factbender yapping about the strike outside a pro shop at a golf course on the news yesterday. Put your putter down and get to the table. Grab that one day a week premier by the hand and take her too. Funny how fast politicians run to the table to solve a truckers strike but won’t do the same with the teachers. It’s a battle of wits and the Premier is absent on all counts.

Read the first six posts and still laughing, you guys rock! Oh yeah, DITTO!

@PGguy1234

You don’t see the nurses saying”I can only have one really sick person on the ward and rest can only have a slight cold and if it comes right down to it MAYBE a single post-op patient.”

If they want few kids in class hire more teachers and lower the wage scale accordingly. Classes with 30+ kids were common not all that long ago and the teachers of the day seemed to cope fine. Today there are TA’s to help where required and some kids defined as special needs require nothing more than a reminder to take their medicine or insulin, perfectly normal in every other way.

Other kids get off to a slow start and are tagged as special needs perhaps they are immature for their age or parents did not prepare them for school very well but they too can catch up with classmates and do fine.

Not arguing the last point but if you threw a general nurse into a psych ward and she had no training on how to deal with these patients and no support, how long do you think that nurse would last and more important, how well is the care given the patient.

When I was a kid all my friends had 2 parents. We played outside, we drank from the hose in the summer and if I screwed up my dad punished me physically. If I got in trouble at school, I got in TROUBLE at home. Now you got ADD, ADHD, FAS, PMS, STD, LSD and a host of other issues affecting a huge amount of the kids in schools today. 2 parent families are now the minority. Parents that discipline their kids are extinct. Times they are a changing.

Ewitt you really need to get your facts straight. Go talk to a teacher about class composition. You are also making an uniformed opinion about past and present classes.

No matter what your feelings are on the current state of negotiations, there is no call to attack kids. If you want to know the facts educate yourself and you will quickly see who is following the law in this dispute and who isn’t.
I know the students in the picture and if anyone knew what they were standing up for it was these kids. They know their own mind and have been taught by their family and yes their teachers to question and think for themselves.

Aw states; “…there is no call to attack kids.”

Nicely said, however these minions are just following their political government of choice, namely the large “C” Conservative and small “L” Liberal government. When you have a government that continues to pick on the kids in this province, you get their supporters on here who will do the same.

This government drives more children into poverty than any other province or territory in Canada, this government constantly under funds our children’s education, they layoff Child Protection Workers and underfund child protection programs. This government, like some of their supporters on this site, likes to pick on kids!

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/b-c-s-child-support-clawback-violates-rights-lawyers-say-1.952923

“The test of the morality of a society is what it does for its children.” ~Dietrich Bonhoeffer

detoe43 “200 people = massive rally?? Maybe in Hixon. BCTF, have your fight with the government, justified or not, but putting political placards on kids is almost as tasteless as penning a letter to the Citizen & putting your 10 year old kid’s name on it.”

This is not a new tactic, Pro Life has been doing it for years.

Enbridge is paying me to say this:

Teachers average 73,000 per teacher(over 80,000 if we include educators in the average)

There are 70,000 teachers qualified to teach in BC and only 40,000 have jobs.

2 out of 3 grads can’t get jobs as teachers and many temp for years before they get the privilege of a full time position.

The solution is clear. Class size drops immediately, and proportionate with teachers salary.

I want more for my tax dollars.

And say what you want about teachers not being in it for the money, but we all know that the soft BA degrees have poor outcomes financially.

Thanks!

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/highest-salaries-for-experienced-teachers-countries

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/sep/11/education-compared-oecd-country-pisa

cupricity, I agree with you 100%!

I’ve been out of town on a business trip and have had limited opportunity to crank things up on this site, haha! Today while on route home, I wondered what how our BC Teachers compared to other countries. It only took a moment to find this comparison. Check out the link:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/teacher-pay-canada-near-the-top-of-the-oecd-class/article4541629/

Our BC teachers, in spite of the BCTF’s constant whining, are very well paid and very well compensated with lots of time off, terrific benefits and a very generous pension plan, all courtesy of the average BC taxpayer, regardless of whether or not the average BC taxpayers enjoys the same types and levels of salary and benefits!!

Fire them all! Get rid of the BCTF! Put together a new contract and offer it to any teacher looking for a job! I’ll just bet that there would be a line up for the jobs!!

I think it is time the truth got out there. Our kids pay the price for teachers high wages through big class sizes.

Teachers- admit it, you are not on strike for the kids. You are on strike for the raise.

If you do not like the wage here- move- Sweden is wonderful socialist utopia, full of
universal health care, small classroom sizes, and whats this? Average wages of 39,000! Fi Fann det dar ar inte frisk. Men, faktist sa are det!

Och Vanta kanske den dar jatte jobbig mannen som sager att fick pengar fran Enbridge ska vet att jag kann prata liten. Nu, snart jag bli radd for han!

Sooo how much socialist money did you claim for your road trip? All honest claims I hope.

google translation for taxpayerteacher as he is headed there.

And Vanta perhaps the dar giant hard man who says that got money from Enbridge should know I kann talk small. Now, once I get scared for him!

I’m not gonna debate the issues for either side of this dispute because who knows what’s really true. The only thing I know is that if the teachers can’t reach an agreement with the current administration, they have to focus their efforts to get a party elected who will give them what they want. In the last election the electorate and taxpayers of this province decied to give the Liberals another term. It seems that the BCTF is trying to sway the public that has already tuned out because they voted for this administration and their mandate. This strike is pointless. Get the NDP in then you will get what you seek.

With the NDP in we get the perpetual motion machine (power by magic rainbow debt increases).

NDP elected on promises to public sector unions. NDP hikes taxes to give to public sector unions. Deflation sets in (housing prices in 1999 anyone in PG?) giving more purchasing power to the unions.

Only problem is no jobs available except for the priviliged in public sector unions.

Sweden hit this wall in the early 90s. Slashed public sector wages, reduced corporate income tax, eliminated the perpetual motion machine. Socialism is the answer to capitalism and neither stands a chance without each other. It’s 23 chromosones from each. The hunters share their meat.

The BCTF is fighting for the restoration of portions of their contract that were removed by the “new” Liberal Government in 2002. These clearly unaffordable items were given to the BCTF in a sweetheart deal with the Glen Clark NDP Government in 1998, over the term of a new three year contract that offered the BCTF the same 0-0-2 wage offer as other Public Sector workers had accepted during this period of restraint.

However, in order to get the BCTF to sign on to 0-0-2, the NDP gave the teachers more, much more, much much more by way of improved benefits, improved pensions PLUS class size and composition restrictions!!

After Clark resigned,the new NDP Premier. Ujjal Dosanjh found out the true cost of this clearly unaffordable deal, but as the contract was in force, the NDP Government stuck with it until they were defeated by the Gordon Campbell Liberals.

When this sweetheard deal expired in 2002, a new contract had to be negotiated with the BCTF. It was at this time that the Liberals thankfully removed these clearly unaffordable gifts to the BCTF by way of a new contract!!

The BCTF has been fighting ever since in an attempt to have these “gifts’ restored!!

The BCTF would have us believe that class size and composition limits have been in place forever and they want them back!

I am of the opinion that these limits were only in place for one measly 3 year term from 1999 thru 2002.

So, I’m wondering if anyone here knows how to get a hold of a BCTF contract that was in place prior to the 1998 sweetheart deal. It would be nice to review their contracts over the 20 years or so prior to the sweetheart deal.

I suspect that the BCTF would rather ignore those prior contracts and instead only focus on the 3 years of their sweetheart deal!

But of course, I could be wrong! However I suspect that I am not!!