Nice to see the toddlers out in full force again supporting the teachers! Like to know if any of the cars out front belong to any of the strikers, if not, I would be raising a big stink about someone leaning a sign up against my vehicle

What’s wrong with other students helping each other?/ That’s the way it was before… Called “teamwork””
Once again.. thought it was the support staff that looked after the special needs students in the class. The teacher doing this by herself??? If so, the battle should be the responsibility of the support staffers asking for more bodies..

Maybe some of the teachers can tell us how many billions of taxpayer dollars it will take to meet their demands? And where that money will come from?

The money will come from the magic money tree, also known as the BC Provincial Gov’t.

Where they get it from, is not a concern of teachers.

Get out of the middle of the street, I’m trying to get to work.

Here is an idea. Instead of making 60 dollars an hour as the average wage a teacher makes (37 weeks times 40 hours a week is 1480 hours/ 91,000 which the 73,000 AVERAGE plus the pension and benefits value) why not make 40 dollars an hour all in cost ( which would be about 60,000 a year with pension and benefits, or 45,000 a year without).

That would free up enough money to drop class sizes dramatically, and hire special help.

It would also put us in line with other first world socialist countries who pay their teachers less and and have smaller class sizes.

Since there is 1 teacher wanting to teach for every teacher with a job even if they all left for other places (with slightly higher wages but very similar working to unemployed ratios) there would be more than enough teachers within 3 years of teacher grad class to fill the gap by adding 50% more teachers. Due to the joys of percentages, teachers taking a 33% pay cut down to $40/hour average would allow us to hire 50% more teachers.

We pay our teachers too much, and we have too big class sizes. The two go together succinctly and beautifully, just like July and August.

Lower teachers salaries, reduce class size, reduce unemployment among those with Arts Degrees.

2100 teachers in the district. So less than 10% showed up. Well, if they don’t care I guess I don’t care. Move along, nothing to see here.

No Shirley Bond though I bet… I’ll wager she scurried off in to some dark corner to hide.

1fastm3 on July 10 2014 2:47 PM
The money will come from the magic money tree, also known as the BC Provincial Gov’t.

Where they get it from, is not a concern of teachers.

After that recent SCC ruling on FN title to traditional territory, I’d be very careful if I was the province in making any financial commitments. We really can’t be sure of our future cash flow, and recently a FN band served eviction notices on the industry working in their traditional area – facetious to be sure, but still disruptive, and at some point, it’s just going to be too much trouble to do business in B.C., so it won’t matter what you ask for, there won’t be any way to give it to you.

Funny how the BCTF has been using the comparison to teachers in other provinces to justify their demands here. According to BCTF only PEI pays it’s teachers less. Well I was recently speaking to a Teacher from Manitoba, who stated quite clearly that they are paid nowhere near what BC teachers are paid, and they have NO BENEFITS…she was in fact quite disgusted by what the BCTF was demanding here!

The problem with the BCTF is they hide behind the facts. The only important fact is how many teachers we get for how much we pay. You can talk around pay grids, minimum salaries and all that jazz but the only important number is the Average. This number is 73,000/ a year because of the high numbers of teachers with Masters degrees. This in turn is a function of a shortage of jobs that are available (again the shortage of jobs is artifically created by the high AVERAGE wages).
In short class sizes are too high, teachers salaries are too high.

The ignorance of people who post their vitriolic and uninformed comments regarding teachers to this site is beyond measure. It’s time that opinion250 moved the opinions off the news page and put them where they belong.. on the opinion page. Let’s go through the above:

1) ohreally – all the vehicles belong to teachers with signs. Your attempt to insinuate otherwise is an ignorant attempt to discredit teachers and cast them in a negative light. Nice try.

2) stillsmokin comments “The teacher doing this by herself??? If so, the battle should be the responsibility of the support staffers asking for more bodies..” – shows the ignorance of responsibility in a classroom. The teacher is responsible for students, always has always will be. An attempt to marginalize the serious concern that was raised by the teacher who lives that experience day in day out.

3)JohnnyBelt – the oldest argument in politics.. where’s the billions going to come from.. – ignorance of the serious underfunding of education in British Columbia. ignorance that the billions taken from the Public Education system are sitting in the bank accounts of corporations. The $275 million illegally taken out of the Public Education system was offset by the loss of Revenue to grant corporations the lowest tax rate in Canada. Budgets balanced (and that isn’t a truth either if you look at the way BC Hydro has been indebted with deferred expenses) on the backs of our children people… on the backs of our children. And you don’t get it. You never will because you would rather live your vendetta against teachers continuously.

4) 1fastm3 – disparaging comments to insinuate that teachers don’t care about the finances of the province, that they don’t understand economics. Ahhh yes the greedy uncaring teacher characterization. Bash them teachers, whip them hard. Demonize them, marginalize them, disrespect them. Pour your vitriolic comments over them. The reality of what is, is beyond your knowing. You’ll never change your view point.. you are what you are.

5) weaksauce – use your common sense go around the block. Wait.. that would be to easy. Gotta find some fault somewhere. Still laughing at this one.

6) cupricity – a rambling diatribe that lacks any veracity. You have no idea how many hours a teacher works in a day, a week, a month, a year. You create conjectures to marginalize teachers and the value of what they do. Your numbers are laughable at best, disingenuous at worst. Your final sentences are your point of view. Nothing before that supports them. Well taken. Who needs to pay a good wage for the work teachers do. Anybody can do it. Sadly, those with the biggest and loudest mouths don’t have a vested interest in having the best, the brightest, the most dedicated, and the most committed teach their children.

7)interceptor – ignorance of the facts everywhere. There are only 700 FTE teachers in MacKenzie, McBride, and Prince George. Many of those are in school, on well earned break, and recovering from government induced insane working conditions perpetrated by government lockout. Wow some are even working in the School District as Distance Learning and Adult Education continue unabated. Get your facts straight. But wait. It’s easier to just disrespectfully rant about teachers. Some just can’t help themselves.

8) bcracer – she was absent. But rest assured teachers will probably be tracking her down over the summer, along with the other MLA’s in this area.

9) ski50 – where there is a will there is a way

10) NyteHawwk – ignorance of the facts. The BCTF has made no such claim. The fact is that they have raised the following:
BC spends $1000/student less than the national average and the only province worse than BC is PEI. I would suggest what you express is a fabrication and an attempt at “yellow journalism”.

11) cupricity – didn’t get them to believe you the first time. Like they say.. try try again.

To the Editor of Opinion250:

It’s time you took the vitriolic and tripe that spews from a few people and moved it to the opinion page where it belongs. Time to change your model of delivery of the news. People want the news, not opinions built on ignorance of facts.

@opinion1: As for ‘the oldest argument in politics’, I suppose it is easier to simply dismiss the question of where the billions are going to come from rather than face the answer directly. “Corporations have it” is a weak response, much like the rest of what you wrote.

Time for the teachers and people like yourself (probably a BCTF shill) to wake up and smell the roses. Like the medical system, the education system gets plenty of funding but is increasingly choked by bureaucracy and administration. Maybe the system needs to look within itself to find the funding it requests. There is no money tree.

The BCTF has been whining off and on for the past 30 years. Personally, I’m sick of it. Other government unions like CUPE are able to make deals… why not the BCTF? Time to stop pointing the finger at government.

@opinion1: I can appreciate that it must be hard for you to read anti-BCTF sentiment not found in your union meetings, rallies, and other such propaganda they force you to read and watch.

In your world, dissenting views and differences of opinions are not tolerated. Are you sure it’s ok for you to come on this site? Better check with your leadership.

If they are on strike they should be picketing – other school districts the teachers are on a real strike and picketing schools so maintenance and clean- up (CUPE) don’t cross. I doubt that 100 teachers showed up – hopefully , even if no settlement by September they go back to work instead of picketing otherwise it will show their real true self- only picket when it is convenient.

Very well said opinion1. It’s always the same old BS from the same old BS’rs

I see the usual gang is stacking the yes votes in the opinion poll again.

Maybe they all didn’t come because there was no strike pay available.. hmmm Maybe it’s time everyone paid less to unions so they could have more take home pay.

hey johnny wondering where the money comes from. well lets start with the rape and plundering of our crown resources which goes to general revenue then where does it go? OBVIOUSLY not education because our govt. doesn’t give a rats rectum about education. TURN us into a Taliban culture all with a grade 2 mentality then lets see where this takes us

Good post Opinion 1. And yes I agree. 250news has lost some of its knowledgeable posters, such as Gus !!

JohnnyB the money is going to come from you, me and the rest of the tax paying people in BC just like it always has. Jack the PST, booze and smoke tax up and give it to education! Sounds pretty easy to me.

To put another direction on the discussion … I was happy to see the Vancouver school board along with a few other district boards call for binding arbitration this past week … While not an ideal process, the is a lot more fairness and a timely solution when a skilled and knowledgeable independent third party comes to the table with the power to impose a settlement … It is amazing how fast the rhetoric disappears when both sides realize that the jig is up.

opinion1 want’s opinion’s in the opinion section. If not they should be banned from opinions….I get it now. Fascism alive and well in the BCTF world. You union drones just don’t seem to see the disconnect between your world and the real one. You are being scammed by the BCTF to believe your cause is just. For 30 years your union has been picking fights with every government. You have cried wolf far to many times to be taken seriously. if I was a teacher, I’d be totally pissed that my substantial union dues had only days of strike pay while money was sent to student anarchist’s in Quebec and a long list of political activist causes.
This is a game by the BCTF. Its so baffling how the teachers keep playlng it.

opinion1 want’s opinion’s in the opinion section. If not they should be banned from opinions….I get it now. Fascism alive and well in the BCTF world. You union drones just don’t seem to see the disconnect between your world and the real one. You are being scammed by the BCTF to believe your cause is just. For 30 years your union has been picking fights with every government. You have cried wolf far to many times to be taken seriously. if I was a teacher, I’d be totally pissed that my substantial union dues had only days of strike pay while money was sent to student anarchist’s in Quebec and a long list of political activist causes.
This is a game by the BCTF. Its so baffling how the teachers keep playlng it.

Cut the fat at the top, union & gov…cover the costs…way to many pans, not enough bacon

A great post opinion1.

dow7500, the BCTF’s problem is that it is dealing with a gov’t that has a record of lying, has been admonished by judge for deliberately trying to provoke a teachers’ strike.
Whatever the short comings of the BCTF, it amazes me that there are posters like you that do not seem to realize that the gov’t has a large role in creating the current mess.

Opinion 1.

You say my numbers are laughable. Please dispute them. Numbers don’t Lie. My “opinion” is a sliver of ego and a ream of cold hard facts.

Veracity is showing your work, and logically adding the numbers together. All you do is call me ignorant. Where are my numbers wrong, specifically. I have an open mind and respond to specifics. You have responded to exactly 0 of my specifics. I repeat- my numbers are not good- they are numbers, independantly verified sources supplied.

My numbers for average teachers pay, the second one coming from a pro teacher blog on a link shows 73,376 for 2012-2013 (note this is a number that is not including principals and admin etc, just teachers)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/battle-of-numbers-how-much-does-an-average-teacher-make/article17309702/

https://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/reports/pdfs/teacher_stats/public.pdf

As for unemployment amoung young teachers

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/09/02/widening-skills-gap-leaves-lost-generation-of-graduates-unable-to-find-jobs-in-their-field/

http://www.macleans.ca/work/jobs/two-thirds-of-new-teachers-cant-find-full-time-work/

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Teaching+grads+face+slim+prospects+crowded+market/4937804/story.html

As for my numbers on class sizes and internation teachers comparison

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/sep/11/education-compared-oecd-country-pisa

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/highest-salaries-for-experienced-teachers-countries

cupricity I don’t know what you do but 73,000 really isn’t that much in this day and age. TO become a teacher you are looking at 4 years university plus 1 more year teacher training, then with job competition some future teachers pursue a masters degree so that is another 2 to 3 years, which adds up to a lot of investment in severely underfunded secondary education institutes. QUITE an investment, wouldn’t you agree? I make $125,000 per year working only 185 days a year less days when you take off 4 weeks holidays. WHEN I first started my working career I made only $2.85/hr., but a glass of wobbly pop was only 10 cents, so now you see how much commodities have risen over the years. A person needs a decent wage to keep the wolf from the door! IF you are not happy I suggest you try and better yourself, life is to short to bitch and moan because you only get one go around at it. BUT the thing I enjoyed the most about my job was the fact that I wasn’t your professional baby sitter and have to listen to a bunch of whining parents.

“Shirley Bond Kills Public education.”

I really don’t believe that she has that much power!

ICE- Congratulations on your wonderful job. You are the envy of everyone with a job that is in the 90th percentile (You make more than 90% of all Canadians).

The thing is the market is not concerned about how long you went to school for. The market is concerned about how many other people went to school and what they are willing to work for.

I am all for paying people great wages, and think that Henry Ford was a brilliant man.

What I am against is a two tiered system where 10s of thousands of University graduates would like to be teachers but take third rate jobs because there are no teaching jobs available- I have a friend who is trying to be a teacher but is getting into Tatooing due to a lack of work- meanwhile a select group have used bullying tactics to inflate their wages to much higher levels than other first world socialist countries at the expense of my children.

Thanks!

Ice, $73,000/year is not much for a living wage? If a person cannot get by on that kind of a wage, their priorities are way out of line.

Opinion1 – I was using the 2100 figure that SD57 website shows but I guess that does include support staff. Wait, the rally also includes “supporters”. So using your figure of 700 then there were what, about 50-75 actual teachers at the rally? Still pathetic but thanks for the correction.

There seems to be an easy solution to this whole mess, lets find out if the teachers really put the students first. Teachers take a 10% pay cut, use this money to hire all the extra staff they say they need, the students benefit, the government does not have to increase budgets and the teachers get their assistants back. Told this to one teacher and she just about popped a gasket, so much for the KIDS.

i’m a teacher supporter, and I support a reasonable wage increase. what bugs me is this…as soon as summer hits and it’s the teachers’ vacation time, pickets come down and you’d never know there was job action. I have a few teacher friends, and they’ve taken off to the okanagan, vancouver island, ontario, as soon as they possibly could. what kind of weak job action is this?! how badly do they want a new contract? if this was so incredibly important and vital to education in this province, you’d think their presence would continue, not this lame excuse for a rally, that only includes those teachers that happen to still be in town. I wish my job was so awful that I could afford to leave town with my family on vacation during my two consecutive months off work…all this while ON STRIKE! give me a break.

if teachers wanted this settled, there would be sustained, vocal opposition throughout the summer. as it stands, and as most of us expect, the teachers will start putting pressure on the employer about a week before school starts, ensuring more missed class time. we wouldn’t want to ruin those family vacations, right? the kind the rest of us don’t get to have. sorry BCTF, you’ve lost this parent’s support.

Why are there not more teachers out at rallies like this? Why are they not out picketing everyday? If I were as hard done by as teachers claim to be I would want to be in peoples faces as much as I can trying to get as much support as I can for my cause. A small percentage of teachers and their families showing up gives the impression that not all members care enough to show up and if they don’t care, why should the public?

mikmak, I guess there will always be a difference of opinion on picketing over the summer. To me, that’s about the stupidest idea I’ve heard. Picketing what? Trying to prevent maintenance people from repairing the schools so they can return to schools needing repair?
Anyone who can’t remember that schools are on a strike action that could effect school start up in Sept. is too stupid to be part of the negotiating group. The idea that “”sustained, vocal opposition throughout the summer ” will affect the length of this strike is just plain dumb. Just read the posts against the reachers from the “Swamp People” crowd. Do you really believe that picketing might cause them to think with an open mind?

Picket over summer? What? And ruin summer vacation? Never! It’ll be ‘for the kids’ again come September.

karrman, sorry I’m so stupid, let’s hope i can hit these keys in sequence…i don’t consider myself one of your ‘swamp people’, i am a vocal supporter of teachers and the role they play in society. at the same time, public opinion plays a huge role in the government’s decision regarding contract talks. taking the summer off from their strike does exactly what moose says. it gives the impression that teachers themselves don’t care, so why should anyone else? to hear the teachers talk before summer vacation came around, ‘solidarity…in defiance…the battle of our careers…a final stand for education in this province…the long road ahead…’. where is that talk now? whoops, it’s hot out, my kids have the summer off, and i make 60-70k a year, time for vacation!

maybe picketing during the summer wouldn’t sway the extremely anti-teacher, anti-union, anti-BCTF crowd. but it could help to solidify the image to other parents and taxpayers like myself that this is something serious that they are passionate about. do I feel as though they need my continued support anymore, or that they deserve my continued support? no.

Welcome Mikmak to the anti-BCTF Crowd!!

mikmak:

“but it could help to solidify the image to other parents and taxpayers like myself that this is something serious that they are passionate about”

What a load of crap.

And you begin you earlier post with another load of crap:
“i’m a teacher supporter,” and then tell why you don’t support teachers.

JohnnyBelt:
Picket over summer? What? And ruin summer vacation? Never! It’ll be ‘for the kids’ again come September.

I believe that it would be stupid for teachers to picket over summer. All that would accomplish is to cause teacher haters like yourself to chortle.
You’re pissed off they’re not picketing because you can’t laugh at them.
I guess you’ll have to find something else to amuse yourself.

At coffee yesterday , one of my buddies was telling about a local businessman who owns a restaurant here on the Island and gets his mad money by skimming the tips that come in on credit cards.
He’s a teacher hater too.

I’m laughing. Last time I saw someone draw on the street with chalk, it was a three year old.

That’s the 27 teachers in town who recognize how much public support they’re losing by postponing the strike for the summer break……what a joke.